Andy Reid(b 1982)

[Jicked]

Out of position... By all means play him out wide but with the freedom to drift about. Not stuck on the left wing, it's just not his game.

For me that's the crux of the issue. Reid can't play in the way we play our wingers (stuck on the wing, chasing up and down it for 95 minutes), and he's not really a combative midfielder in the mould of Andrews, Whelan, Gibson. So he doesn't really fit in to the sytem we play.

That makes the next question is Reid good enough to change the system to accomodate? I don't think so. We've tried to accomodate Reid in previous campaigns and ended up staying at home. That's not to completely criticise Reid's performances, but it is a different style of midfield as a whole to the one we currently play which looks like we're going to be boring and fight and scrap our way to South Africa. Besides, I can't remember on too many occasions that Reid used his undoubted talents to big effect on the national stage. I seem to remember recurring complaints about our midfield during the previous 5 or so years.

Reid does have the talent to be in the squad, for sure. But the guy's attitude has to be questioned. Every time people congratulate him for slimming down (it seems like that has happened about 3 times now) I have to question just how the feck did he end up so out of condition in the first place whereby a player is in a position to have to lose that much weight.
Of course Trap, Tardelli and Brady know Reid has the talent to be a squad player, but obviously his attitude in Mainz has done him out of that back-up role (we've all heard the rumours of what went on that infamous night). Trap knows that Reid is a good player, but for Ireland he'd be a bench player. Is it worth the ensuing circus of having all eyes focused on the subs bench, fans booing etc in the event of a game being 0-0 at half time? I think Stephen Ireland is a good enough player to justify that sort of circus, Andy Reid though isn't imo.

As has already been said he's found his rung on the ladder as being a good player in a poor enough team....if his vision and passing ability really were as decisive as some make out he simply wouldn't be in and out of a poor Sunderland side over the last couple of years.

[eirebhoy]

if his vision and passing ability really were as decisive as some make out he simply wouldn't be in and out of a poor Sunderland side over the last couple of years.
Fair enough post but last season was his first since Spurs that he wasn't a sure starter.

I think Reid's first quarter century of caps have been better than most Irish players. From his excellent debut, to being singled out as MOTM by van Gaal against Holland to his brilliant goal on his competitive debut against Cyprus to an excellent pass for Keane's goal vs Israel to dominating the Germany game amongst others. He has had a couple of poor games but has looked comfortable at international level from day 1.

[Jicked]

I agree he's done well enough for us (though can't remember anything of note during the Stan era, perhaps that whole time is best forgotten) but my point is that if you play Reid, while he may be doing his bit, it requires a different style of midfield to accompany him. As a whole that midfield and the different variants we tried on it over the last 5 or so years didn't work. Taking Reid out for a more technically limited player like an Andrews/Whelan/Gibson style may well be putting in a 'worse' player, but it may just benefit the team as a whole and as we all know there's more to picking the XI most talented players.

In the perfect world Reid would be able to combine his undoubted technical skills and vision with the physical attributes and engine of a more defensive/complete midfielder. Of course if he could do all that he would have more illustrious clubs than Notts Forest, Charlton and Sunderland on his CV!

[geysir]

Trap clearly sees Andy as being good enough and as having some role to play (rumour has it that he had decided to use Reid as a sub against Montenegro, but the post-match shenanigans in Mainz changed his mind).

Hardly likely, Trap chose Andy as a sub, told him to get warmed up in the 2nd half and get ready to come on, Tardelli with the virtual clipboard giving instructions. More likely some event on the pitch caused Trap to change his mind than a sudden memory recall of Andy swilling pints and crunching chords on his guitar.

[TerryPhelan]

Hardly likely, Trap chose Andy as a sub, told him to get warmed up in the 2nd half and get ready to come on, Tardelli with the virtual clipboard giving instructions. More likely some event on the pitch caused Trap to change his mind than a sudden memory recall of Andy swilling pints and crunching chords on his guitar.

My point was that his initial decision to use Reid was made before the game, then Mainz happened and he opted against it. This is backed up by Trap's quote that:

"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker."

If his decision not to use Reid was motivated by what happened in Mainz, I would not expect Trap to say so. I don't think that his decision not to use Andy was made on the touchline but in the wake of the falling out after the Georgia game.

[geysir]

it looks like you have the timeline in a twist.


My point was that his initial decision to use Reid was made before the game
before the Montenegro game?
Normal enough so


then Mainz happened and he opted against it
Mainz reveleries happened on Sat Night
Montenegro game the following Wed.

Terry your post simply does not make sense.
When not sure, follow the evidence.

[TerryPhelan]

Easy there. I meant that the decision to use Reid as a sub was made in advance of the Montenegro game and before the Mainz incident. I will try and dig out the quote from Trap that highlights this.

[geysir]

Terry, your quote does not support your theory.
For the Montenegro game, Andy was told by Trap to get ready to come on, he was out on the sideline ready to come on. Then after something happened on the pitch, Trap changed his mind and called Andy back to the bench
Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?

[Crosby87]

Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?

In fairness, he is getting up there in years.

[TerryPhelan]

Terry, your quote does not support your theory.
For the Montenegro game, Andy was told by Trap to get ready to come on, he was out on the sideline ready to come on. Then after something happened on the pitch, Trap changed his mind and called Andy back to the bench
Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?

Fair play, if that's what happened then I've clearly got it wrong. My understanding of the situation was that Trap had pencilled in Andy as a contingency plan for Montenegro to use off the bench and that this decision was made before the opening brace of World Cup qualifiers: Trap felt that Andy's style would work to good effect against Montenegro under certain circumstances, while not so well against Georgia. So the plan going into these games (in my understanding) was to use Andy against Montenegro but not against Georgia. Then when Mainz happened, Trap presumably felt it more important to prove a point than go ahead with the contingency plan of using Reid (in any event, the contingency event may not have even happened). I watched the Montenegro game and don't recall seeing Reid warming up or being summoned from the bench at any point, but obviously it's possible I missed it or it has slipped my memory. But I've never said that I thought Trap changed his mind on the touchline as a result of belatedly remembering the Mainz episode.

[Wolfie]

Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.

[Scram]

Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.


Brilliant man management

[Wolfie]

Brilliant man management

Well, international football doesn't always provide a lot of time for pandering to individuals bruised ego's.

I don't necessarily agree with Trapp's hardline course of action but maybe he felt he needed to set an example.

Reid has actually gone up in my estimation in relation to how he's obviously trained very hard and is actively trying to play his way back in. Let the football do the talking.

If he had adopted that attitude from the beginning, I'd harbour a guess that he wouldn't have been frozen out in the first place.

[tetsujin1979]

Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.
yeah, he was a sub in that game: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/matchdetails.php?id=451
only Caleb Folan made it off the bench though

[Wolfie]

yeah, he was a sub in that game: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/matchdetails.php?id=451
only Caleb Folan made it off the bench though

Thanks for confirmation of that.

For the record, I'd far prefer to discuss Reid's playing his way back in as opposed to speculating any further as to how he got frozen out.

Its immaterial now as to how he's been missing - lets hope he continues to play well and leaves Trapp with no option but to draft him back in, in the near future.

It staggers me how much time is spent discussing Reid's weight loss / gain. If the bloke didn't have a complex about it - he does now!!.

[geysir]

My understanding of the situation was that Trap had pencilled in Andy as a contingency plan for Montenegro to use off the bench and that this decision was made before the opening brace of World Cup qualifiers: .
The quote you were referring to, was Trap explaining his thinking before the Montenegro game
"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that Keane and Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes."

Andy was a sub for the Montenegro game. Trap singled him out for planned use. Andy remained in the squad for the Cyprus game.
The only things that have crept out after the Cyprus game was Trap motivated to say that he likes a smiling face whether you are in or out of the team. Also we had an image of Andy, glum as hell, on the subs bench.

[dr_peepee]

I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.


If that's the case though, given his effort preseason, and the dignity Reid has dealt with the whole thing over the last year and a bit (compared with say Joey O'Brien) wouldn't that warrant a recall, even for a Freindly???

Maybe we're reading too much into it. Maybe Trapp just doesn't value what he has to offer his system(s). I've heard two different versions from football people who I would consider "in the know". One says that Reid told him himself that Trapp simply doesn't rate him. Another guy fairly well involved in the school boy game said the Mainz thing was actually alot more heated than has been reported.. I dunno

For me though, he'd be in the squad every time..

[Wolfie]

If that's the case though, given his effort preseason, and the dignity Reid has dealt with the whole thing over the last year and a bit (compared with say Joey O'Brien) wouldn't that warrant a recall, even for a Freindly???

Maybe we're reading too much into it. Maybe Trapp just doesn't value what he has to offer his system(s). I've heard two different versions from football people who I would consider "in the know". One says that Reid told him himself that Trapp simply doesn't rate him. Another guy fairly well involved in the school boy game said the Mainz thing was actually alot more heated than has been reported.. I dunno

For me though, he'd be in the squad every time..

I think many of us agree on this - He should be in the squad and lets hope he plays his way in.

Stephen Reid, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland - all not at our disposal for very different reasons. :(

(Head in hands.................)

[Stuttgart88]

Just to back up Geysir: Reid was definitely stripped off and ready to come on in Montenegro.

[paul_oshea]

hmmm, putting one out there then, perhaps a lesson on the part of Il Trap.....

[SkStu]

two of the three most naturally gifted Irish footballers of their generation not in the squad. What a shame.

[NeilMcD]

I said it before its clear to me that he was left out of the squad because of traps view of his demeanour following the first 3 games and not getting on the pitch and the incident in mainz. Trap obviously felt that Andy Reids demeanour and style or effort in training was not up to scratche. He made a judgment call on it having had him in 3 squads at least. Its not based on what happened in Mainz purely as he was in a squad since but possibly Reids reaction to the dispute in Mainz and his reaction to being in the team.

[eirebhoy]

I saw Reid in the days before the Cyprus game and it would back up those saying he wasn't putting in enough effort to get back into the team. It seems he has sorted himself out over the summer.

[Jicked]

two of the three most naturally gifted Irish footballers of their generation not in the squad. What a shame.

We had all three playing together in the last campaign.

We ended up being destroyed by Cyprus, and scraping past San Marino.

What a shame for Messrs Ireland, Reid and anyone else who didnt give 110% that they probably won't go to S Africa next summer with us. (and in my personal opinion if you're a profesional sprostsman who is overweight then you're not giving 100%)

If these guys were so naturally talented they'd probably have been able to muster up a result instead of the humiliation away to Cyrpus? Or the humiliation at home to Cyrpus? Or away to San Marino???

No?

Can people not at least acknowledge that we've tried to go tournaments with the likes of Morisson, Reid and co.
And it has failed. Several times.

Honestly, I don't mean to be a negative pr"ck about this all, but at some stage I have to wonder. I know i have the reputation as being crazily pro-management but the above, for me, perfectly justifies my rants. We're one result away from going to a play-off and the team is criticised for not taking enough cues from the squad that failed to beat Slovakia, San Marino, Wales et al.

Now we're trying something new. Maybe it won't work, but it's already come a lot closer than building a midfield around Andy Reid who only intermittenly takes his fitness seriosuly.

Give me the likes of Whelan and Andrews barely hanging on and grinding out a result over the alternative, sadly. We've a system that might just bring us to the world cup, yet if we put out a midfield of the likes of Ireland and Andy Reid we wouldn't have lasted two games in to the campaign, just look at previous campaigns and try to explain why this one would have been different.

I genuinely wish Andy Reid could take teams apart, and hope people don't attack my opinion as if I don't respect what Reid could do on a good day, but the fact is he never has before on an interanational stage. Instead he's a good midfield player. One not suited to our style of play, but hey, a good player none the less. Personally I think it's time to substitute that good midifeld player for someone who is lesser talented but more likely to help us grind out an ugly result in a vital qualifier.

[SkStu]

We had all three playing together in the last campaign.

We ended up being destroyed by Cyprus, and scraping past San Marino.

What a shame for Messrs Ireland, Reid and anyone else who didnt give 110% that they probably won't go to S Africa next summer with us. (and in my personal opinion if you're a profesional sprostsman who is overweight then you're not giving 100%)

If these guys were so naturally talented they'd probably have been able to muster up a result instead of the humiliation away to Cyrpus? Or the humiliation at home to Cyrpus? Or away to San Marino???

No?

Can people not at least acknowledge that we've tried to go tournaments with the likes of Morisson, Reid and co.
And it has failed. Several times.

Honestly, I don't mean to be a negative pr"ck about this all, but at some stage I have to wonder. I know i have the reputation as being crazily pro-management but the above, for me, perfectly justifies my rants. We're one result away from going to a play-off and the team is criticised for not taking enough cues from the squad that failed to beat Slovakia, San Marino, Wales et al.

Now we're trying something new. Maybe it won't work, but it's already come a lot closer than building a midfield around Andy Reid who only intermittenly takes his fitness seriosuly.

Give me the likes of Whelan and Andrews barely hanging on and grinding out a result over the alternative, sadly. We've a system that might just bring us to the world cup, yet if we put out a midfield of the likes of Ireland and Andy Reid we wouldn't have lasted two games in to the campaign, just look at previous campaigns and try to explain why this one would have been different.

I genuinely wish Andy Reid could take teams apart, and hope people don't attack my opinion as if I don't respect what Reid could do on a good day, but the fact is he never has before on an interanational stage. Instead he's a good midfield player. One not suited to our style of play, but hey, a good player none the less. Personally I think it's time to substitute that good midifeld player for someone who is lesser talented but more likely to help us grind out an ugly result in a vital qualifier.

Im not his biggest fan Jicked but im not criticising Trappatoni at all with that statement. How could i blame him for Irelands absence? I dont think Reid should be a starter necessarily but i love watching him play and i think a role could be found for him on/from the subs bench at the very least?

My point was that it would be nice to see two more technically gifted players in the team and a system that could utilise the talents of 5 attack minded international class players! Im not trying to apportion blame on Trap for their exclusion just bemoaning their absence.

I also think that in your post, you lay a lot of blame of the failures of the last campaign on the (young, internationally inexperienced) players you mention and fail to lay any blame whatsoever on a terrible manager and a failure of the coaching team. These youngsters needed to be drilled and exceptionally coached and yet they were sent on booze nights and given amateurish "motivational" team speeches with minimal tactical instruction.

[endabob1]

I'd say there's a huge chance that Sunderland would have been relegated if they didn't sign Reid.

Aston Villa 0-1 Sunderland (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/aston-villa-0-sunderland-1-keane-finds-ugly-business-of-survival-just-beautiful-799926.html)
"The team showed the measured calm and assurance of their manager: with Andy Reid dictating play in midfield, Sunderland created a succession of half-chances, only to be let down by a lack of confidence in front of goal."
Man of the match: Reid.

Sunderland 2-1 West Ham (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/mar/31/sport.sport4)
"While it may be pushing it to suggest that he is Sunderland's answer to Ferenc Puskas, few would deny that the Dubliner appears the antithesis of the "modern" Premier League midfielder. Or that Reid has transformed Keane's side since arriving from Charlton in January. Curvier, slower and generally less athletic than his more conventionally constructed counterparts he may be but Reid boasts the sharpest football brain and the best left foot in Sunderland's dressing room.

Like his manager he can see the bigger picture and routinely spots openings before anyone else. Able to deliver laser- like long-range passes with minimal backlift, he compensates lack of pace by the sort of adhesive touch that enables him to control and release the ball more quickly than most team-mates."
Man of the match Andy Reid The man whose vision and passing range has given Sunderland a hitherto missing creative edge which has inspired their recent renaissance. Typically Reid helped create the equaliser before wrapping up the points on the whistle

Fulham 1-3 Sunderland (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/apr/06/sport.sport1)
Reid 8/10


I don't know how you get your information Eirebhoy, but you sure know how to back up your argument. The fact is Andy Reid could be just what we need in midfield to bring on, even if not to start (though IMO he should start) No one else can pick a pass in our squad like him. We all know its not over weight that Andy is not in the squad and I'll be damned if we don't manage to qualify because a stubborn old Italian man won't forgive and forget when the interests of our nations football team are at stake.

I actually don't those articles do anything except highlight 2 things; Reid on his day can be a great player & his level is bottom half (fighting relegation) Premiership top half Championship.


I am just amazed at the number of posters in here who cannot recognise the abilities of Andy (plus or minus 5kg) mentioned above, and the absolute travesty of him not even being in our very limited squad.

I like Reid, I think he brings something different to the squad and I would have him in the 22, personally I think our modus operandi precludes him from starting, we have a limited pool of players and so the system becomes king. This all reminds me very much of Charltons days, John Sheridan was a class act but he didn't fit the system & big Jack never really found a way (until usa94) of squeezing him in.
Basically reid is a good player, not good enough to build an international team around & therefore he is always going to be a fringe/impact player under the current rigid 442 attacking/pacey/tricky wide men, battlers in the middle, system.
If Trap thinks Reid is a bad influence to squad morale when he's not starting then he's better off out of it completely, it's a loss but hardly earth shattering.

[Stuttgart88]

We all know that Trap's modus operandi mitigates against Reid starting (centrally at least) but I think bari showed that he can change things when required and Andy Reid would be on the bench for me everytime just in case something different is required.

If nothing else having a busy player always looking for the ball is great for tempo, which ultimately is the way through well organised inferior teams.

[Colbert Report]

I genuinely wish Andy Reid could take teams apart, and hope people don't attack my opinion as if I don't respect what Reid could do on a good day, but the fact is he never has before on an interanational stage. Instead he's a good midfield player. One not suited to our style of play, but hey, a good player none the less. Personally I think it's time to substitute that good midifeld player for someone who is lesser talented but more likely to help us grind out an ugly result in a vital qualifier.

Germany at home a few years ago? There's a good clip of his passes in that game on youtube. He cut them up like a butcher.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Germany at home a few years ago? There's a good clip of his passes in that game on youtube. He cut them up like a butcher.

He played well that night but the game was played at friendly pace, the Germans came for their point and got it comfortably bar one fluffed Keane chance. He had more room then you'd get in a qualifier where something was on the line.

[Stuttgart88]

In the subsequent game against Cyprus he was ineffective. I don't think Carsley was alongside him though.

[Razors left peg]

In the subsequent game against Cyprus he was ineffective. I don't think Carsley was alongside him though.

no he had Joey O Brien beside him in that game and they were over run... was the first time OBrien had played that position since youth football if I rememeber rightly

[tetsujin1979]

no he had Joey O Brien beside him in that game and they were over run... was the first time OBrien had played that position since youth football if I rememeber rightly
and after O'Brien had played well in centre defence against Germany. Carsley was booked against Germany, and against the Czechs at home, so he was suspended for Cyprus

[Stuttgart88]

Wasn't O'Breien then replaced at half-time?

[tetsujin1979]

He was, Miller came on for him

[Scram]

Reid was on for 2nd half yesterday, only highlight shown was a slightly overhit dink in to Kenwyne Jones so can't say how he did overall, other than they lost and he wasn't on when the goal was scored!

[eirebhoy]

Niall Quinn was on the Late Late with his wife last night. He said if Reid had put as much time into training last season as he did public relations he'd have a much better chance of getting into the squad. But he copped on over the summer with a personal trainer and lost almost 2 stone. His wife loves Reid anyway. :)

I do genuinely believe it was only in the last year or so he let himself go for whatever reason. He's one of the unlucky players like Hartson, Ruddock, Barnes that really have put an awful lot more into their diet, training, etc. than the average player to keep their weight down.

[Crosby87]

Niall Quinn was on the Late Late with his wife last night. He said if Reid had put as much time into training last season as he did public relations he'd have a much better chance of getting into the squad. But he copped on over the summer with a personal trainer and lost almost 2 stone. His wife loves Reid anyway. :)

I do genuinely believe it was only in the last year or so he let himself go for whatever reason. He's one of the unlucky players like Hartson, Ruddock, Barnes that really have put an awful lot more into their diet, training, etc. than the average player to keep their weight down.

This is why I thought that at this point, when we are down to the grindstone, he should be in the squad. I am not making him out to be the worlds best player or anything, but the fact that he has gotten back into shape should have been enough to get him back. Its no time for teaching lessons, and I think he could help. If he apologizes to Trap and Brady for whatever behavior that ****ed them off, which i think he did or would be willingto do, then he should be included at least over Liam Miller. Who's more likely to be helping us if we get to SA, a fit Andy Reid or Liam Miller? Come on.

[geysir]

What public relations efforts was Quinn referring to?

[eirebhoy]

What public relations efforts was Quinn referring to?
I'm guessing Reid's talk about willing to swim across the Irish sea to play for Ireland, etc. It wasn't really a dig by Quinn. He did start off by saying he wished Trap would pick Reid. Just basically saying players should do their talking on the pitch.

[irishultra]

Niall Quinn was on the Late Late with his wife last night. He said if Reid had put as much time into training last season as he did public relations he'd have a much better chance of getting into the squad. But he copped on over the summer with a personal trainer and lost almost 2 stone. His wife loves Reid anyway. :)

I do genuinely believe it was only in the last year or so he let himself go for whatever reason. He's one of the unlucky players like Hartson, Ruddock, Barnes that really have put an awful lot more into their diet, training, etc. than the average player to keep their weight down.

I think its his bodytype. He's an endmorph so needs to be so strict with what he eats. Should prob avoid the white pasta, rice which seem to be a staple of the footballers diet.

Also he like Antonio Cassano probably share a bit in common when it comes to the liking of cakes.

[centre mid]

Scored for Sunderland today.

[elroy]

Scored for Sunderland today.

Hes done plentying of talking about wanting to get in the Ireland squad, if he can match that desire with consistent performances then Trap cant ignore him.

[MeathDrog]

Geovanni "Any Irish player can get in the squad if they are playing well enough" Trappatoni.


Hmmmm.

[Crosby87]

He at least deserves a spot ahead of the likes of Miller and McShane.

[NeilMcD]

Did not realise that Andy Reid is a centre back and full back.

[amaccann]

Silly question #416, but ...

as it's a 43 page thread & Stephen Ireland tends to dominate the "exiled paddies" conversation, where does the A. Reid spat sit at the moment? In whose court is the ball? It has been so long all I can remember is that Trap doesn't like guitar solos at 10pm or something :)

[Colbert Report]

Did not realise that Andy Reid is a centre back and full back.

Huh? I haven't seen the Sunderland match yet. Please explain.

[Colbert Report]

Silly question #416, but ...

as it's a 43 page thread & Stephen Ireland tends to dominate the "exiled paddies" conversation, where does the A. Reid spat sit at the moment? In whose court is the ball? It has been so long all I can remember is that Trap doesn't like guitar solos at 10pm or something :)

Andy Reid is desperate to play for Ireland but Trap won't pick him.

[Noelys Guitar]

Outstanding today for Sunderland. Scored a lovely goal and caused Hull all types of problems. Was playing mostly wide on the left today. Fox are showing the full match at 10pm on the dodgy channels

[Stuttgart88]

Huh? I haven't seen the Sunderland match yet. Please explain.Neil was responding to the suggestion that Reid deserves a squad place ahead of McShane, a centre back.