League of Ireland in Europe 2019

[pineapple stu]

Dundalk, Cork, Rovers and Waterford the teams this year.

Or is it?

Pat's have contacted the FAI regarding Club Licencing apparently (https://twitter.com/markmccadden/status/1118558481580216320); is it the case that they reckon Waterford are ineligible for Europe?

[Dalymountrower]

Good for them.No Delaney to bat for Walsall on Suir now.

[Dalymountrower]

Eh, Swindon, I mean.

[sidewayspasser]

Pat's have contacted the FAI regarding Club Licencing apparently (https://twitter.com/markmccadden/status/1118558481580216320); is it the case that they reckon Waterford are ineligible for Europe?

I'd say so (new legal entity after the takeover?). Or they have doubts about whether Dundalk's manager/head coach arrangements between Gill and Perth are in line with UEFA rules. But the Waterford case seems more likely to me.

[pineapple stu]

RTE reporting that they believe it's an appeal against Waterford alright - https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/0417/1043243-st-pats-write-to-fai-over-european-qualification/

Mayn't be valid of course. May just be Pats chancing their arm.

Is it a coincidence that the appeal has gone in as soon as Waterford man Delaney is (effectively) gone?

[PartySaint]

Rules are rules.

[bohsmug]

Pats have been searching for a victory like this ever since the Paul Marney affair

[Jack B]

We don't make the rules, sorry Waterford.

Karmic justice for Power's statement anyway.

[geysir]

Rules are rules.
Does the 3 year rule apply to Waterford?

[Lim till i die]

We don't make the rules, sorry Waterford.

Karmic justice for Power's statement anyway.

If the Pats board are really serious about socking it to the man they'll also demand Limericks first division place.

[Jack B]

If the Pats board are really serious about socking it to the man they'll also demand Limericks first division place.

We might actually create more than a single chance per game at that rate.

[A N Mouse]

Believe it or not for much of last season Derry looked like they might finish fifth, and this possibility was brought up more than once. I may be misremembering bits here, but the gist is right.

It's oft quoted as three year rule, but it's actually provide full accounts for two/three years (that's a hazy bit).

Now going back a few year in Derry's case it was slightly more clear cut. The UK tax year running from April to April means that a full set of books for the previous tax year are never available in time for the UEFA application deadline.

Now with the tax year, and football season, following the calendar year, that full set of book should be available for UEFA deadline.

There was some info linked from that loi finances thread about when the new Waterford entity filed. And my understanding based on that was Waterford should be ok.

Of course the fai can put forward whoever they choose, UEFA are the ultimate arbiters of licencing in this instance. But do the fai usually ask for next placed team to submit to UEFA licencing anyway? They probably should, it would be bad form if they hadn't in this instance.

[Nesta99]

There was always something Delaney smelling the way Waterford tried to claim Michael Rafter wasnt properly registered after the 2012 Promotion/Relegation Playoff. Touch of karma there too. Good job our club secretary was and is meticulous and everything was in order. How did Waterford get hold of the Dundalk registrations for a 'forensic examination'? It would be harsh on Waterford especially financially but its hard to look past the Delaney connection in Pats stiring the pot a bit with no fear.

[desaintsno.12]

Its a pity for the Waterford fans, but loving the fact it might screw lee power over and obviously us getting europe. I still can't see it happening. Delighted our board are being like this though and being selfish. We have been a soft club in many ways over the years.

[White Horse]

I don't like to see clubs making complaints about other clubs. In this case, it could be argued that Pats are being forced into this stance by the failure of the FAI to implement the rules.

Any sympathy I have for Waterford on this issue is tempered following the speculative pettiness of their appeal after the relegation play-off in 2012.

[El-Pietro]

I'd be surprised if this pans out for Pats. Waterford didn't go bankrupt and I don't think they owe anyone any money. They voluntarily changed holding entities. It would be hilarious if they missed out but I think they will be able to provide accounts going back several years. Definitely something to keep an eye on.

[pineapple stu]

Why would you voluntarily change holding entity though?

I don't like to see clubs going after each other either - but if the FAI aren't going to do it, then the clubs need to.

It's probably fair to say that one of two things has happened here -

Waterford have paid off all their debts and just changed their company for some reason, in which case they'll be let play in Europe and all's fine
Waterford haven't paid off all their debts and left some in the lurch when changing company (Revenue being the obvious one - so you can legitimately say you paid all your suppliers, but you stiffed Revenue), in which case you look back to the 2017 First Division and the huge advantage they got there. It's right that there's a rule in place to stop that kind of stuff, and if Waterford have done that, then they should be treated accordingly.

Waterford haven't been in Europe in what - 30 years? - so it'd be great to see them there this year, especially with crowds up; it'd be another boost to the club. But if they've pulled a fast one to get where they are, then...

[marinobohs]

I had hoped we had seen the last of this sort of garbage but it really is up to the FAI to nip these things in the bud and ensure all such cases are resolved well in advance. it was obvious that Waterford were likely to qualify for Europe most of last season, the issue of their eligibility or otherwise should have been long since cleared up and clubs 9especially those involved) notified accordingly.

[PartySaint]

This is what the UEFA club licensing and financial fair play regulations states:

Chapter 2: Licence Applicant and LicenceArticle 12 – Definition of licence applicant and three-year rule

1 A licence applicant may only be a football club, i.e. a legal entity fully responsiblefor a football team participating in national and international competitions whicheither:

a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association and/or its affiliatedleague (hereinafter: registered member);

or

b) has a contractual relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: footballcompany).

2 The membership and the contractual relationship (if any) must have lasted – atthe start of the licence season – for at least three consecutive years.

3 Any change to the legal form or legal group structure of the licence applicant(including, for example, changing its headquarters, name or club colours, ortransferring stakeholdings between different clubs) during this period in order tofacilitate its qualification on sporting merit to the detriment of the integrity of acompetition and/or its receipt of a licence is deemed as an interruption ofmembership or contractual relationship (if any) within the meaning of thisprovision.

[geysir]

This is what the UEFA club licensing and financial fair play regulations states:


3 Any change to the legal form or legal group structure of the licence applicant(including, for example, changing its headquarters, name or club colours, ortransferring stakeholdings between different clubs) during this period in order tofacilitate its qualification on sporting merit to the detriment of the integrity of acompetition and/or its receipt of a licence is deemed as an interruption ofmembership or contractual relationship (if any) within the meaning of thisprovision.

I seriously doubt that changing the club name from Waterford United to Waterford FC was done with that intention in mind.

[sbgawa]

Given Waterford have already cut their budget for this year even with the Euro money coming you would have to wonder what will happen if this goes against them.
It will really be time for the owner to stick or twist..........given he cut the budget this year i would expect players leaving in July if Pats win this argument.

[pineapple stu]

I seriously doubt that changing the club name from Waterford United to Waterford FC was done with that intention in mind.
The club name was changed because Waterford United went into liquidation. Same as Wexford Youths rebranding as Wexford FC. Fran Gavin was on record saying the two name changes were for the same reason

[outspoken]

Johnny Ward tweeting to say Waterford are out of Europe and power is to pull the plug

[Mr A]

Very worrying if he is on that sort of a hair trigger to walk away. If true, eventually he'll walk one way or another.

[sbgawa]

Might just be putting it out there to try to get the FAI to back him in the spat with UEFA

[marinobohs]

Might just be putting it out there to try to get the FAI to back him in the spat with UEFA

Waterford were around the top of the table for most of last season it is a f**kin disgrace if this was not clarified by the FAIlures before now.Not denying Pats right to query it but there should have been an answer to this long ago. if Waterford were ineligible they should have been told, if they were eligible pats should have been told right away.

What exactly does that clown in Abbotstown do all day ? (hardly still occupied flogging Aviva season tickets ?)

[pineapple stu]

Well reading between the lines could mean that this was clarified by the FAI, and they said yeah, lookit, don't worry about it; we'll sort ye out.

If there was, by chance, a former Waterford board member on the FAI committee and also on the UEFA board, that could help smooth things along. And if that person were to suddenly leave, well then it's open for a challenge.

Not saying that's what did happen, but it's certainly a plausible solution which ticks all the boxes we're seeing now

[Asterix]

I wonder when Cork and Bohs will cause a fuss about Dundalk not meeting UEFAs licensing.

[seand]

I wonder when Cork and Bohs will cause a fuss about Dundalk not meeting UEFAs licensing.

What and the who now?!

[Asterix]

UEFAs website says the head coach needs to have the highest coaching licence available, dundalk have been calling vinny perth the head coach and he doesn't have a pro licence. I would imagine uefa would be a bit stricter than the FAI about these things.

[seand]

Gill is there purely because he has the badge. Dundalk will match Gill's job description with the uefa requirement..... seeing as that's the only reason he's at the club and everything.

[oriel]

UEFAs website says the head coach needs to have the highest coaching licence available, dundalk have been calling vinny perth the head coach and he doesn't have a pro licence. I would imagine uefa would be a bit stricter than the FAI about these things.

As Seand said this was the exact reason Gill was brought in.

Looking forward to Europe now, first time an Irish side has been seeded in the CL, should get a nice start in R1, and a good chance of an extended run in the EL, the fruits of 2016 season finally paying off.

Be nice if we have clicked into top form by then !

[TonyD]

Pats have been searching for a victory like this ever since the Paul Marney affair

Hardly, but having said that, there would be a big dose of karma if it happened. I must admit, I had mixed feelings about the prospect initially, but for all the people who told us back in 2002' rules are rules, so get over it, well, the same applies here.

Shame for Waterford fans if they are ruled out though. As Pats fans we know exactly how it feels to be denied for off field reasons.

[Nesta99]

UEFAs website says the head coach needs to have the highest coaching licence available, dundalk have been calling vinny perth the head coach and he doesn't have a pro licence. I would imagine uefa would be a bit stricter than the FAI about these things.

In case you are still in doubt do you think it is coincidintal that Gill has been doing the majority of media interaction and is the one who prowls the technical area more than Perth. Actions speak louder than words but you can still dream Asterix!

[Ezeikial]

In case you are still in doubt do you think it is coincidintal that Gill has been doing the majority of media interaction and is the one who prowls the technical area more than Perth. Actions speak louder than words but you can still dream Asterix!

He also has a business card which says in capital letters in 3 languages that he is the headiest of head coaches

[Lim till i die]

At least if Pat's are given the place the children Europe won't have to worry about being defiled by one of Waterfords strikers.

But, look, even though Schadenfreude is the absolute best thing about being a football fan I realise that we in the LoI are a family.

There's two buckets in my shed. waterford are welcome to both of them if power takes his ball and goes home.

[Partizan]

The club name was changed because Waterford United went into liquidation. Same as Wexford Youths rebranding as Wexford FC. Fran Gavin was on record saying the two name changes were for the same reason

Waterford United did not go into liquidation. Lee Power took over, paid off all the debts and rebranded the Club back to Waterford FC.

[Partizan]

The latest news from Suirside is that the potential obstacle is being removed and that we will get the go ahead to play in Europe.

[EatYerGreens]

Might just be putting it out there to try to get the FAI to back him in the spat with UEFA

There is no FAI at the moment though.

What rump of an organisation there is has got significantly more important existential issues to deal with, rather than worrying about which of 2 Irish clubs are in Europe next season. They'll probably be short on bandwidth and desire to do much about this.

[Yossarian]

Confirmed now that Waterford are ineligible for Europe.

[pineapple stu]

Sounds like it was fairly cut and dry, given how quick the decision was.

Feel sorry for Waterford fans; ****ed over by Delaney here trying to pull a stroke.

[Jack B]

Have to say we've timed our European run perfectly here. Masterstroke by Bucko in retrospect.

Waterford need to chose their friends more wisely I suppose. Sorry Lee.

[Kiki Balboa]

Why did St. Pats wait so late to send this letter?

[pineapple stu]

I would imagine because there was zero point in appealing while Delaney was in power?

[Nesta99]

Delaney will be choking on he LFA paid for lunch in Frankfurt when this news reaches him!

[EatYerGreens]

Waterford were around the top of the table for most of last season it is a f**kin disgrace if this was not clarified by the FAIlures before now.Not denying Pats right to query it but there should have been an answer to this long ago. if Waterford were ineligible they should have been told, if they were eligible pats should have been told right away.

What exactly does that clown in Abbotstown do all day ? (hardly still occupied flogging Aviva season tickets ?)

Is it not obvious ? He spent all his time out around the country handing out cheques, kissing babies and doing whatever it took to ensure the pile of crabs in a bucket which comprise Irish football kept supporting him.

That kept him in his job, but left him very little time to do that actual job. Because he wasn't interested in that job anyway - it was just a stepping stone to a much bigger one in European or world football.

[sbgawa]

Don't know how I feel about this.
If I was a Waterford fan id be gutted.
How did Lee powers people who handle due diligence not look at this.
It's all very well blaming the FAI but it's powers people that have dropped the ball here

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Don't know how I feel about this.
If I was a Waterford fan id be gutted.
How did Lee powers people who handle due diligence not look at this.
It's all very well blaming the FAI but it's powers people that have dropped the ball here

I'd assume our friend John assured him he'd get them in one way or another.
I wonder if Lee is wondering if he can rescind his statement of support now

[CorribsideSteve]

As Seand said this was the exact reason Gill was brought in.

Looking forward to Europe now, first time an Irish side has been seeded in the CL, should get a nice start in R1, and a good chance of an extended run in the EL, the fruits of 2016 season finally paying off.

Be nice if we have clicked into top form by then !

I wish Dundalk the best, and hope that they've learned some lessons from last year's battering defeat in Cyprus, which was hopefully a blip.

[joey B]

Brays getting back in the Premier aren't they!!!!