League of Ireland in Europe 2019

[RathfarnhamHoop]

It's disappointing that half the teams in Europe are having bad seasons. Rovers and Dundalk probably performed roughly as expected and to be fair pats probably did too and could probably count themselves unlucky not to at least get a penalty but the inconsistency of our league, driven by the one season contracts, means that the teams that have qualified can be completely different beasts by the time Europe actually comes. If you look at the tables now I'd put money on Derry and Bohs doing better than Cork and Pats did if they were in Europe but last season neither of them were great and if they do qualify this season who knows what they'll be like next season?
The league needs to move away from season long deals to get some consistency in it. The lack of continuity gives us great story lines with teams flying up or dropping down in no time at all but in terms of actually improving the league it'd be far better to have consistency. It's no surprise that the two best teams in the league are the ones with very little turn over of players and that have players with security in their contracts.

[placid casual]

It's interesting how the European question brings out reasoned debate on this forum, in stark contrast to the league squabblings. Long may it continue

[Charlie Darwin]

We have to honest here - it looks like the league is going backwards! Out of 55 countries, Ireland are 48th placed based on co-efficient points gather so far this year (0.25). N Ireland have 1.0 and Wales have 0.5 already!
Well that's hardly that surprising considering they've played three times as many games and against easier teams...

[Steve Bruce]

I don't know how many of you follow Irish League football and are on the irish league forums, but we are having constant debates on Summer football and how it affects European results.

Does anyone care to give me their viewpoints on whether it would be worthwhile for the Irish League to move towards a May to February season?

[sparky12345678]

Has there?

Progres beat Rangers in 2016

Kilmarnock needed an injury-time winner in Wales last night, and Aberdeen face a nervous second leg in Finland after conceding late in a 2-1 win. Aberdeen scraped past Jeunesse Esch in 2016.

Last year was ok, but take Celtic and Rangers out and they're not great at all

Take Dundalk & Rovers out and the comparison also is clearer
2 loses *at home* one of which was against unseeded opposition
versus 2 wins one at home and one away. Sure next week things might change and Scotland might also have 2 clubs eliminated... but their win(s) is also better for the coefficient...?
0-2 is clearly worse than only winning cos of a last minute goal. One team took their chances and another didnt.

[pineapple stu]

We probably wouldn't have beaten Dudelange had we not been mid-season.

Would starting in May give the same edge as starting in March? Probably not, especially for a team with a few transfers, but it would surely be a big improvement.

But there's more to football than just Europe, and the way summer soccer has been implemented here was one of the most damagingly short-sighted decisions the FAI have ever made I think. Different seasons for senior football/everyone else has to be a no-no.

[pineapple stu]

Take Dundalk & Rovers out and the comparison also is clearer
2 loses *at home* one of which was unseeded
0-2
versus 2 wins one at home and one away. Sure next week things might change and Scotland might also have 2 clubs eliminated... but their win(s) is also better for the coefficient...?
Well that's just arguing that the SPL is better than the LoI. Of course it is.

Has the SPL's European results improved in recent years ago that we should try learn from it? That was your question, and I don't think you've proven your case.

[TonyD]

Pats did as well as could be expected for a team that were parachuted into the completion at the last minute.

Being parachuted in is neither here nor there really. We performed pretty much as we've been performing all season. No reason to expect anything else just because it was a European game. Decent enough effort for the first half hour, but we never looked like scoring (though having said that it looked like a peno on Shaw to me.) They could have had a couple more too. Disappointing, but really I didn't expect much more. Sneaking a nil nil was the height of our prospects last night.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't know how many of you follow Irish League football and are on the irish league forums, but we are having constant debates on Summer football and how it affects European results.

Does anyone care to give me their viewpoints on whether it would be worthwhile for the Irish League to move towards a May to February season?
Biggest problem with a May to February season for me would be it falls outside European transfer windows. The February to November season the LOI has more or less coincides with January and July-August in England and the rest of Europe. If you were to have a May to February season, where would you put the windows?

[ToberonaTornado]

Sorry - what?

The eir commentators pronunciation of Norrkoping ranged between north coping,not coping :D to nor kopinge and a few times he went "north shopping":D
or maybe it was just me and my bad ears picking that up? :tongue:

[Charlie Darwin]

The eir commentators pronunciation of Norrkoping ranged between north coping,not coping :D to nor kopinge and a few times he went "north shopping":D
or maybe it was just me and my bad ears picking that up? :tongue:
The Swedes pronounce the k in Norrkoping like our sh so it's something like Nurrshupping.

[EatYerGreens]

We have to honest here - it looks like the league is going backwards! Out of 55 countries, Ireland are 48th placed based on co-efficient points gather so far this year (0.25). N Ireland have 1.0 and Wales have 0.5 already! We are at 41st at the moment but being honest, that's too high for us. It could have being worst - Rovers equalised in the last minute! Next week, we need Dundalk and Rovers to get through but its going to be tough.

Is it really that the LOI has gone backwards in recent years (i.e. leaving aside the crazy Celtic Tiger boom and bust years) ? Or is it more that other leagues have progressed at a faster pace than us ?

Discuss.

[pineapple stu]

I think the LoI has gone backwards from the crazy bubble years, which we'd like to think of as normal, but which weren't of course. I think it's gone backwards in the past, say, 5 years as well.

Has it gone backwards from, say, the 90s? In terms of money, probably yes. In terms of player prep, etc, then no. Would a top LoI team of today beat a top LoI team from the 90s? Probably would - again, strength and conditioning, etc, has improved a lot since then.

But certainly there is greater potential for the league if it had, for example, better prize money and other supports. So at the moment, I would certainly argue that the league is not fulfilling its potential by a long shot.

[D24Saint]

The standard of the league has fallen badly the past few seasons.

[Ezeikial]

The gap between the top teams and the rest has certainly grown as the European money has increased.

This means the level of competiveness within the league has dropped as the disparity in resources and budget is magnified. It is possible that the standard at the top may have actually increased while the overall standard has fallen. I don't know if this can be measured in any meaningful way.

Every season for as long as I can recall fans of clubs who are not successful lament that the league is "poorer". A quick look at the Cork forum comments this year will illustrate this point well

Objectivity in this topic is very difficult

[D24Saint]

Europe has to be the yard stick so we will know where we stand next week with Rovers & Dundalk the die is cast for ourselves & Cork.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

It's obviously nearly impossible to compare standards from season to season but my two cents on it would be that the lack of top strikers in the league is seriously hampering the league because as Dundalk for example showed you can play all the great football you want if you can't stick the ball in the net in Europe the results won't look good. As for the actual quality I'd say the way teams are looking to play is a lot better but the players maybe just haven't fully come through yet so some teams are having to use square pegs in round holes for the time being and it shows but the underage teams at most clubs from what I've seen are mostly playing good football so hopefully as they come through that'll improve. I also can't stress enough how much I think the single season contracts affect the league and harm the coefficient. It leads to single season bubbles of quality at clubs that pop when the owners realise the money won't come through for at least another year after they qualify, so by the time Europe comes they're a shell of the team that qualified and another team in the league now has that quality but won't play in Europe with it and the cycle continues. This is all ignoring the fact there's a good chance if anyone impresses in a season they'll likely be off to one of the bigger clubs or abroad. The league should definitely look at having some registration rules in place to try encouraging continuity in squads which I think would help the leagues quality.

[D24Saint]

Totally agree about the one year deals.

[oriel]

The standard of the league has fallen badly the past few seasons.


The standard of the league has fallen badly the past few seasons.

I think this is a regular comment from fans of clubs who are having modest seasons, I'd prefer to hold my judgement until the second legs, I still think both Dundalk and Rovers will get through and if so 2/4 is not too bad.

Without a doubt the needle is gone with the rivalry with Dundalk given Cork's incredible and rapid decline, Rovers have challenged well and Bohs are on target for a Euro spot, Derry are also decent this year, so that's prob the top 4. Take away decent Cork sides in the past, I'm not sure that strikes of a standard that has dropped too much.

Europe is quite rightly a good barometer of how things are going, Dundalk didn't play well the other night, one more average performance and they will be out, but I think we'll go through, we will score over there.

If only one go through next week* (or worse none) I'll certainly agree things are going backwards.

* Dlk have a backdoor this year, in the event of going out to Riga, its into EL r2, if we get past Riga its ELr3 if (when) we lose CL r2 to Qurabag (most likely opponents).

[marinobohs]

Totally agree about the one year deals.

Then I think of Git Forresters 3 year deal and.......

[sbgawa]

Then I think of Git Forresters 3 year deal and.......

Ouch !

[D24Saint]

Then I think of Git Forresters 3 year deal and.......

And ? he will come good he just has to get his head together. He hasn't suddenly become a bad player overnight.

[oriel]

I would hope for the players sake he can turn things around, but its not looking good for Forrester, not only hasn't he played well since he came back, he probably hasn't played well for over a year now.

I think the 3 year contract was generous in the circumstances, plus I don't think either Dundalk or Rovers were too interested, possibly only inquired, Pats could have been his only offer?

[D24Saint]

I would hope for the players sake he can turn things around, but its not looking good for Forrester, not only hasn't he played well since he came back, he probably hasn't played well for over a year now.

I think the 3 year contract was generous in the circumstances, plus I don't think either Dundalk or Rovers were too interested, possibly only inquired, Pats could have been his only offer?

Id say the three year deal was in part seen as an investment. I’d say the theory was he comes home gets his game together an offers get made in year two and we are all happy, just not panning out.

[marinobohs]

I would hope for the players sake he can turn things around, but its not looking good for Forrester, not only hasn't he played well since he came back, he probably hasn't played well for over a year now.

I think the 3 year contract was generous in the circumstances, plus I don't think either Dundalk or Rovers were too interested, possibly only inquired, Pats could have been his only offer?
Bohs spoke to him (he was a Bohs fan) Dundalk spoke to him and I think shams made a tentative enquiry. Pats offer was way in excess of every other offer put to him.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Then I think of Git Forresters 3 year deal and.......

That's the risk you take but at least there's some consistency. Would you prefer to finish 3rd one year and 5th the next or 4th twice is basically the question. Stability can be to an extent a bit more boring than stuff like Derrys rise and Corks fall this year but in terms of player and team development its far more beneficial. Yes you might end up with a player on a long term deal that doesn't work out but there's nothing stopping you offering him out for free so once his wages are reasonable there's just as much chance of him moving on and there's more chance of that player coming good staying at a club for more than a year than switching club every year.

[EatYerGreens]

That's the risk you take but at least there's some consistency. Would you prefer to finish 3rd one year and 5th the next or 4th twice is basically the question.

That's a silly question though. Third place gets you Europe and a tonne of money. Clubs would prefer a year in Europe over any other option, as the income it brings would makes achieving consistency in the following seasons easier.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

That's a silly question though. Third place gets you Europe and a tonne of money. Clubs would prefer a year in Europe over any other option, as the income it brings would makes achieving consistency in the following seasons easier.

Most years 4th gets European football too. And it's probably overall better for your budget with your attendances being less volatile, wage demands dont soar. Look at Cork and all the financial problems having European football only to lose it is causing already.

[Nesta99]

Dundalk saw him as a possible replacement for Finn and when a player of his undoubted pedigree you have to have a look, maybe his demands were high or they saw that he wasnt in a particularly good place but the interest became luke warm quickly. Certainly fans were enthusiastics about him possibly signing with a few losing the plot after missing out on McEneff also. Similar with Paddy McCourt training with Dundalk but they decided that it would just take too long to get his fitness to where it was expected to be for starters, and as fans we'd loved to have seen him play for us even toward the end of his playing days. It's an awful shame that Forresters playing career is being so badly effected by personal issues. He just doesnt seem in love with the game. That said from the observations from Pat's fans in general on here, they way they play is not going to suit his abilities. So possibly a few thing affecting his form.

[Nesta99]

That's the risk you take but at least there's some consistency. Would you prefer to finish 3rd one year and 5th the next or 4th twice is basically the question. Stability can be to an extent a bit more boring than stuff like Derrys rise and Corks fall this year but in terms of player and team development its far more beneficial. Yes you might end up with a player on a long term deal that doesn't work out but there's nothing stopping you offering him out for free so once his wages are reasonable there's just as much chance of him moving on and there's more chance of that player coming good staying at a club for more than a year than switching club every year.

This is very true and what is consistant at Dundalk for the last 6 years is that it's generally year 2 that new signings seem to show why they were signed.

[nigel-harps1954]

Three wins and a draw this week, for the greater good and all that.

[CorribsideSteve]

I have a bad feeling about Dundalk, conceding an early goal and then falling victim to a park the bus from Riga, and then getting caught on the counter for another goal. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

[Mr A]

I have a bad feeling about Dundalk, conceding an early goal and then falling victim to a park the bus from Riga, and then getting caught on the counter for another goal. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

Some might say you're just being Rigalistic.

[oriel]

I have a bad feeling about Dundalk, conceding an early goal and then falling victim to a park the bus from Riga, and then getting caught on the counter for another goal. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

I hope he picks Andy Boyle to start, the back 4 I think will cope best is Gannon-Boyle-Hoare-Massey, two changes from last Wed, with Cleary and Jarvis dropping out, but who knows what he'll go with. These 4 for me is the best chance of keeping a clean sheet.

[Buller]

I hope he picks Andy Boyle to start, the back 4 I think will cope best is Gannon-Boyle-Hoare-Massey, two changes from last Wed, with Cleary and Jarvis dropping out, but who knows what he'll go with. These 4 for me is the best chance of keeping a clean sheet.

Suprised at this. Is Gartland no longer a sure starter? Gannon-Boyle-Gartland-Massey would be like 2016 all over again... :p

[Ezeikial]

Brian Garland was a sub last week and lost out to Andy Boyle in the half time change. That was the same day that his contract extension was announced. He is also club captain.

So while he is not an automatic first choice he is clearly a significant part of Vinny Perth's plans

[White Horse]

Suprised at this. Is Gartland no longer a sure starter? Gannon-Boyle-Gartland-Massey would be like 2016 all over again... :p

I expect Jarvis, rather than Massey to start. If Dundalk are to push their full backs forward (which is essential to the way they play), they need good pace at the back to close down any counter attacks.

We saw how Rovers waltzed past Gartland, when Rogers was fortunate not to be sent off, a few weeks ago. Gartland has great qualities and will play a big part in the season, but he is rarely an automatic starter when playing against sides with a bit of pace.

[D24Saint]

Some might say you're just being Rigalistic.

Some would say that your just talking bollactics.

[swinfordfc]

TMS are into Round 2 of qualifying - Best of luck to Dundalk today!

[paul_oshea]

Is this on RTE? I haven't seen anything so guessing no? Or any other channel?

[Ezeikial]

Is this on RTE? I haven't seen anything so guessing no? Or any other channel?

eir sport 1 at 17.25 for 17.30 kick off

[pateen]

Anyone have links to tonight's game? Mobdro not working for eir 1 overseas

[oriel]

Suprised at this. Is Gartland no longer a sure starter? Gannon-Boyle-Gartland-Massey would be like 2016 all over again... :p

Gartland still a very important player, but Hoare was without doubt first choice before Boyle arrived back. VP unlike Kenny rotates quite a lot though to ensure the defence (apart from Gannon) all get games, he mentioned that between Massey and Jarvis they have each started something like 16 games already (Jarvis covered in MF for a bit). Most DFC fans I have spoken too would agree this would suit europe more, but all depends on what VP thinks !

Gannon-Boyle-Hoare-Massey

For domestic games when Dundalk are less challenged, there are few better than Gartland at facing the ball, its when he's challenged for speed that would be a concern.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Is Dundalk Cork just postponed indefinitely from this Friday? Thought it would have been rearranged for Sunday like Rovers and Pats games but doesn't seem to have been.

[CorribsideSteve]

Anyone have links to tonight's game? Mobdro not working for eir 1 overseas
Try www.olweb.tv and have a search for eirsport, or , type that search into google.

[dundalkfc10]

Michael Duffy not in the squad tonight

[marinobohs]

Michael Duffy not in the squad tonight
Isn’t his partner expecting their first child ? I think the club was hoping to fly him out in time for The game today, probably unrealistic given logistics.

[dundalkfc10]

Isn’t his partner expecting their first child ? I think the club was hoping to fly him out in time for The game today, probably unrealistic given logistics.

Baby hasnt been born yet so didnt travel this morning as planned

[swinfordfc]

Massive loss

[Real ale Madrid]

Baby hasnt been born yet so didnt travel this morning as planned

God I know in this day and age its important for the father to be there but If that was a City player id be raging. How do Dundalk fans feel about it?