League of Ireland in Europe 2019

[Real ale Madrid]

I expect a full and robust 'state of the LOI' discussion after this.

[D24Saint]

Some Dundalk fans on here continued to believe that being on top of a rubbish league makes you a good team. Their performance in these European games supports the opinion that the standard in the league has dropped the past few years. The Dundalk team of recent seasons would have given Slovan a much better game. The more our teams struggle in the European the tougher it will continue to get.

[redarmyfaction]

So the Dundalk game against Sligo Rovers is postponed as they are to play in Eurpope 3 days later. But Dundalk played Cobh in the Cup but this game wasn't postopned even though they are playing in Europe 3 days later.

The European clubs have way to much power in postponing games to suit their own needs. It's the usual BS you hear of 'it's good for the league', 'they need to fresh', 'they need to be ready'. There is no taught of the teams who are relying on badly needed gates to keep the wolf from the door, only to hear they wont have a home game for another load of weeks. How is this a benefit to the league … wages still have to be paid.

If clubs in European games want to postpone games then fair enough, but they should have to pay for that privilege ... say €10k if they postpone an away match! That would only be a small small percentage of what a club in Europe is making but is massive to other teams who simply want to pay wages and are being given no say about their own home fixtures.

They would be better off it seems being Match fit than taking their ease. Did they not get knocked out last year after missing our game?

[paul_oshea]

There is a serious lack of understanding between the attacking players. Men don't know where or when to run or expect a team-mate to be. It's like they've not been together long. A few lads are looking leggy too

[D24Saint]

If Linfield go through when was the last time the Irish League had a side in Europe longer than the LOI ?

[paul_oshea]

Finally. Go on and get the draw now anyway.

[paul_oshea]

Their keeper is good.

[D24Saint]

Needed to score that peno.

[paul_oshea]

Damn. He is good.

[Real ale Madrid]

Hoban. Useless.

[paul_oshea]

They'll have to look back on this tie and think. How did we lose it so easily. Massive regrets.

[pineapple stu]

Celtic knocked out of the CL by the Romanian side beaten 5-0 by Dudelange last season

[D24Saint]

Celtic knocked out of the CL by the Romanian side beaten 5-0 by Dudelange last season

Shows how poor their competition in the SPL is, they have scored a dozen goals in two games.

[paul_oshea]

Hoban scored the pen on 72 mins they'd have had 25 mins almost to score 2 goals....instead they succumb to another goal as I'm typing this. : rolleyes:

[osarusan]

Slovan just so much more purposeful and clinical in attack, whereas Dundalk are fairly aimless.

Dundalk are not the side they were a few years ago, but given the losses in players and manager, that's no surprise really.

[nigel-harps1954]

Dundalk were really awful for most of that game tonight.

Let's hope it destroys their confidence altogether and Harps can hand out another hammering on Friday night. :D

[Real ale Madrid]

Cluj have a co-efficient this year of just 3.5.
Knocked out Astana, Maccabi Tell Aviv and now Celtic. No mean feat to knock out 3 seeded teams.

[CorribsideSteve]

Thank God that's over. 2016 was a blip it seems.

[Real ale Madrid]

Be some craic if Linfield knock out Qarabag

[marinobohs]

Wow, that was poor. Very disappointing performance from Dundalk against good but by no means special opposition. The clinical collectivity we associate with Dundalk at their best was missing. Really amateurish display all round.
Comes back to expectations, while they are easily the best team in Ireland they are a long way off progressing in Europe, where do they want to go ? And are PEAK6 willing to fund it ? Stick or twist.

[sbgawa]

Stick ...in a year's time they would be parachuting into a playoff for EL2 group stages or something like that.

[EatYerGreens]

Wow, that was poor. Very disappointing performance from Dundalk against good but by no means special opposition. The clinical collectivity we associate with Dundalk at their best was missing. Really amateurish display all round.
Comes back to expectations, while they are easily the best team in Ireland they are a long way off progressing in Europe, where do they want to go ? And are PEAK6 willing to fund it ? Stick or twist.

For Peak6 to pull out now would surely be akin to writing off a minor loss on the whole project ? So why would they do that ?

Instead they can use the money form Europe this year to pay for another roll of the dice next year. What have they got to lose ? It's not like they're blowing a load of their onw money on the team. And sooner or later they'll get an easy route into the group stages again.

[sbgawa]

Hoban should grab whatever contract is on the table now and sign asap. A guy who has 6 goals from play all season for a team running away with the league......is he deluded that there are teams lining up to a sign a gu yh who has failed everywhere else??
Players and agents frequently believe in themselves to be better than they are.....he is a classic example

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Certain Dundalk fans are not going to like me saying this but the parallels between Perth and Bradley during his first year in charge are uncanny.

[Steve Bruce]

The winner in round 4 or 3? Does that mean linfield are guaranteed the Europa League group stages? What's been their transformation? Just hery?

Hery has been good but we've a lot more to our team than just him. Shayne Lavery is the lad to keep an eye on. He's only 20, strong, pacey, great work ethic and hugely talented.

Joel Cooper a fantastic winger, we literally have 2 back 4s that would be first team starters at every team in the IL.

Kearns, mulgrew, fallon, kirk Miller, Jordan Stewart, waterworth etc all very talented footballers.

We just have a good squad. Hery coming in helps enhance it and he's a lovely player to watch, but he does have negatives that makes me understand why he's playing on this island and not at a much higher level.

He can't tackle, he's not particularly quick and his heading is poor. But despite that his positives do outweigh is negatives massively.

[Nesta99]

Hoban should grab whatever contract is on the table now and sign asap. A guy who has 6 goals from play all season for a team running away with the league......is he deluded that there are teams lining up to a sign a gu yh who has failed everywhere else??
Players and agents frequently believe in themselves to be better than they are.....he is a classic example

You sure he isnt the hatstand Rovers are looking for? Careful what you say though as it isnt the craziest possibility that he ends up at Tallaght ;p

On the game tonight, started brightly and created some good attacking opportunities. A mix of aimless drilling it across the box without looking up to try and pick out a player, annoying slow lofted crosses that any half decent keeper will deal with, them having a very good keeper, and even that lack of luck where a ball could take a nick off somone and sends it in the net. Murray I thought was looking one of the better players 1st half so surprised to see him subbed at HT. Hoare helped shoar things up at the back a bit.

We got not one but 2 clamity LoI in Europe goals tonight, arguably against the run of play, and from lightening quick breaks or ball over the top that should have been dealt with. Dunno what the set up was that ened up with Murray and Sheilds in the centrehalfs postitions at one point. Duffy looked a little more like himself - maybe no coincidence that as his partner in crime has departed (all to be revealed tomorrow supposedly). Shields did his usual job quite well and wasnt too sloppy. We just lacked the guile to unlock their defence. Fats was up to it for the first time really this season when he came on. 4 or 5 corners in a row showed that were were putting pressure on but were not getting at them with the set piece. LoI teams need some luck along with a performance to progress and we lacked the bit of luck. Some might say the ref let the play run but I thought he was quite weak on persistant/professional foul/kicking the ball away and so on, he was slow getting cards out.

On matchnight arrangements or SDCC operations management at Tallaght left a lot to be desired tonight. Issues that were easily solved with some proper thinking. Things werent helped that some tickets and all smartphone tickets couldnt be scanned. Long queues develped with only one turnstyle open until a few mins before the game kicked off. There was a lot of confusuion on seating arrangements as even block allocations werent in use. Large groups were arriving in to the North Stand that there didnt seem to be room for. People booked sections on halfway line ended up at the end of the stand after trying to get to their designated setcion which was barriered off. It caused enough concern to have all the suits over to try and manage things. A bunch of Slovan fans were allowed in only to find out that they were not able to move to the away section their tickets were for. There was a fence up against the seats in one of the disabled areas at the front, It meant that people accompanying wheelchair users had to stand. It was just there in the way not serving any purpose. I asked Mr Suit 'Ground Opporations Manage' (his claimed title) if the fencing could be shifted even spinning it 180degrees against another barrier would have cleared the area with miminal inconvenience. I was told the wheelchair users would just have to move but all other sections were full. One of the Gardaí radioed about getting the fence moved and he got no joy either. Silly thing but showed a disregard for disabled spectators and unwillingness to fix in the most easy manner. Pictures say it all so maybe a tweet to SDCC is in order! Dunno what it was like in other areas in general but the set up in the area opposite end of the stand from Away fans caused plenty of confusion and frustration and when added to blocking access to disable area needed, and the 20 Slovan fans let in the home section and were desperate for barriers to be moved so they could joing their own fans was also strange for getting in to the worng section at all or not being directed to their entry point.

Very small grumble was the lack of programmes yet we were in the ground with 10-15mins to KO. Must have sold out very quickly!

[pineapple stu]

Dundalk apparently controlling large parts of their game but ultimately unable to score over 210 minutes - against ten men for a small part of that - is a bit worrying.

I suppose the point is that Qarabag are a better side than Riga, and are going to be tougher to score against. If ye struggled to score against Riga - and to be honest, from the bits I watched, there weren't that many clear-cut chances created - then it's going to be a bigger struggle against Qarabag. And will ye keep a clean sheet against them?


A bit worrying?

I'd certainly preferred if they had scored a goal or two over the two legs, but it is encouraging to have kept clean sheets and performed solidly from a defensive perspective. Going through on penos versus a single goal win on aggregate hardly changes the outlook much for the next leg.

Progression to the next room was the always aim.

Job done. Doubters stand aside. Next please.


I`m certainly not worried that Dundalk failed to score over 120 mins, we also kept a clean sheet in two games, still looked the most likely to win it the other night, and eventuallly kept our never to win on pens, and coped without our best player. All of this was acheived by playing just ok, so there is room for improvement, thats for sure.


We seemed a bit toothless but between the way Riga sat in and having to rush some players back from injury, Duffy having to leave from the airport and Hoban not firing by former standards a low scoring tie was expected, 0-0 and winning on penos was too close of course. To have a penalty shoot-out under the belt is handy and will have built confidence. We also know there is a lot more football and goals in this Dundalk side and with 2 more games in CL alone we will play in to better form.


I think a lot is being made of Dundalk's failure to score, and remember this is only one of 3 away games since 2014 they have failed to, would have been a fair few games too in that period as last wed was the 70th in total.

Dundalk played 'just ok' anyone who saw both or one of the games will have seen that, but its not really that big of a deal, they got through, that's all that matters, they and everyone knows they will need to up their game big time to have even a chance v Qarabag.

Interesting bit of psychology in the posts above - interesting how far fans will go to ignore an obvious deficit in their own club. :) But that deficit has been flagged a number of times in the games since.

(Not getting at Dundalk fans specifically; we're all guilty of it)

[Ezeikial]

Certain Dundalk fans are not going to like me saying this but the parallels between Perth and Bradley during his first year in charge are uncanny.

So, if Vinny Perth emulates him we can look forward to similar success in the coming seasons?

I can only dream about winning the Leinster Senior Cup and regular 3rd place finishes

[Weatherman]

Where was Dean Jarvis last nite and what's the rumour going around about him? Ment to be getting released today from Dundalk

[seand]

Certain Dundalk fans are not going to like me saying this but the parallels between Perth and Bradley during his first year in charge are uncanny.

Yeh, I remember the way Bradser strolled to the league title alright

Dundalk just not good enough last night though. Maybe that was the parallel RH was seeing?

[oriel]

This Dundalk team is not good enough at this level in europe, it’s a simple as that. P6, W0, L3, D3, F2 A8, that’s a dreadful return. I thought after keeping two clean sheets v Riga it would improve, but apart from 45 mins v Qarabag it didn’t. We were never going through after being 0-1 down last night but if Hoban scored his pen it gets it back to 2-2 and a chance to get a result in the game, they then scored with probably only notable attack of the second half.

Dan Kelly not even used last night, his pace was badly missed, changing your centre half at HT strikes of picking the wrong man in the first place, not really any positives this year, and the team will need significant investment if they are to advance in Europe next season.

[bohsmug]

Dundalk are the best team in LOI but their days as an outstanding team are over. I don't really see Perth being able to bring them back up to that level either.

[sbgawa]

You sure he isnt the hatstand Rovers are looking for? Careful what you say though as it isnt the craziest possibility that he ends up at Tallaght ;p




Reading my post again reads very negative re Hoban which doesnt reflect my opinion of him, i still rate him as a decent LOI striker who i would be happy to have at Tallaght if that happened but i think when push comes to shove he will re sign for Dundalk on what they have offered him as he wont better it in Ireland (unless Linfield come in for him :) ) and he won't have many offers from England when he is barely in the top 10 goalscorers from play this year in the league.
Its the apparent attitude he is displaying that annoys me.
What is the Dundalk opinion on how much his goal-scoring has fallen off this year, you don't become a bad player over night?

[5yardpass]

I think as the seasons go by more of what were once the lesser leagues have by big margins surpassed the LOI for revenue, TV, Rich Owners, Domestic Prize Money. which improves the standard of player their teams can afford and increases the transfer fee's they charge when selling, if none of these fundamentals are addressed results will only stay the same or get worse, ……. just look at Cyprus and Luxembourg but in reality take your pick of most European countries and the set ups are so much better... whinge over...

[outspoken]

Criticism of Hoban is harsh. He was Dundalk's main threat last night not so much in a scoring sense but he created most of the attacks by dropping deep or wide and playing in the likes of Duffy and Gannon in behind. With that being said surely it made sense when your centre forward is coming that deep and wide to get involved and is doing a good job of it you get another striker up alongside him? Starting to think Georgie Kelly is just an ornament for the bench? Unbelievable he wasn't brought on until it was too late yet again.

[mcgonigle]

Reality check again. It's really hard to say but as much as I love these players and the incredible things they've done domestically... they're not good enough to compete at this level.

There are no players in this league good enough to play in the group stages of the Europa League. The cycle of signing the best of the rest and gambling on players coming back from the UK is doomed to fail on this stage.

It's clear as day the level of investment required to get to the group stages and it is well above what we are currently investing. If the owners want to get there they are going to have to gamble and that is a scary prospect.

I don't think they will. I think they'll stick with the current model and hope to get the luck of the draw but with the new qualification model it has become less and less likely.

[mcgonigle]

Certain Dundalk fans are not going to like me saying this but the parallels between Perth and Bradley during his first year in charge are uncanny.

I for one am not in that group, thought this was a great post. Gave me a great laugh when it was needed most. Thanks RH

[outspoken]

Reality check again. It's really hard to say but as much as I love these players and the incredible things they've done domestically... they're not good enough to compete at this level.

There are no players in this league good enough to play in the group stages of the Europa League. The cycle of signing the best of the rest and gambling on players coming back from the UK is doomed to fail on this stage.

It's clear as day the level of investment required to get to the group stages and it is well above what we are currently investing. If the owners want to get there they are going to have to gamble and that is a scary prospect.

I don't think they will. I think they'll stick with the current model and hope to get the luck of the draw but with the new qualification model it has become less and less likely.

It's scary when you see Michael Duffy breezing by players without thinking In the league yet looking like a snail against some of these brick house yet lightening fast wingers and full backs in Europe. Dundalk are an incredibly fit side but the physical condition of players in Europe is genuinely scary. Definitely agree that without foreign players the league can't grow in Europe

[RathfarnhamHoop]

As I said Dundalk fans won't like the comparison but it's fair. Technically very good coaches, tactically know how they want to play but I bit naive on how exactly to do it, substations leave a bit to be desired, what's said to the press is easy to take out of context.

The main difference between them would be results but I think it's obvious to see why that is even to the most lillywhite tinted pairs of eyes.

[mcgonigle]

As I said Dundalk fans won't like the comparison but it's fair. Technically very good coaches, tactically know how they want to play but I bit naive on how exactly to do it, substations leave a bit to be desired, what's said to the press is easy to take out of context.

The main difference between them would be results but I think it's obvious to see why that is even to the most lillywhite tinted pairs of eyes.

So they're very similar except in the one department that matters, results? This is a poor effort RH, PC will be having a word with you, must do better (much like Stephen's annual report card).

[sbgawa]

To be fair to RH results arent a fair judge on there own of a manager.
Is Neil Lennon a better manager than the Aberdeen manager because his results are better?

Vinnie took over a team that won the league easily and the consensus is the team has performed poorly compared to last year leading to question marks about his ability to get the best out of Dundalks players from Dundalk fans as well as others.
Can he improve the team going forward is the question.
Judge him on the teams performance in year 2 would be fairer than the current rush to judgement especially as he had limited time to get his head around the job and change the squad when Kenny left.
Winning the league this year will get him as much credit as Celtic winning the Premier league in Scotland , its expected given the disparity in budgets (which klind of leaves you in a no win situation as manager) so his performance is being questioned just like Bradleys was (with lower expectations) Rovers have improved as has Bradleys handling of Subs/tactics/Press (whether you think that is terrible to bad or average to good doesnt matter) it is better.

I have no doubt given time Vinnie will become a better manager , will he get the time is the question, he deserves it i think.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

I never mentioned results originally, I said there are parallels between them, as people, as managers.

[seand]

While I'm here please indulge me and allow me to don my official Dundalk FC anorak and ask if anyone has a ticket available from last night's game (the cardboard type, not the printout) for my collection? PM if you can help a sick man, thanks

[Nesta99]

Interesting bit of psychology in the posts above - interesting how far fans will go to ignore an obvious deficit in their own club. :) But that deficit has been flagged a number of times in the games since.

(Not getting at Dundalk fans specifically; we're all guilty of it)

In fairness Stu, it was said that we looked toothless, lowscoring games were expected and that we could play in to better form. All happened - we played better in patches against Qarabag, and were a lot better against Slovan especially last night considering the deferent abilities of the respective opposition. Riga showed there were no mug either in subsequent ties. We were a lot better last night with attacking but were still lacking a cutting edge in the final third. Couple of poor defensive lapses, and a missed penalty or it was a different tie. It wasnt blind Dundalk faith that had the crowd sill engaged prior to the peno miss, it was that we had them pinned for significant periods and Hoare's introduction helped mitigate against the worry of being hit on the break.

Excuse time - we havent still yet been able to play a strongest 11 and preferred setup due to ongoing injuries. That said for the squad size we are currently 2 or 3 players out rather than 7 or 8, so managable. For whatever issues there are Jarvis would probably have been a starter as Massey was done for pace too often last night, we dont expect Boyle to make too many mistakes but he has had limited game time. Cleary looked shell shocked from early on and Hoare not starting was the first big error. Duffy was a bit more like himself and danced past the full back to be able to run in to space a few times first half. Hoban was furious on one occasion where picked the ball up from a Duffy raid forward and had him in on goal and Duffy inexplicably played the ball back out to Hoban away from goal so confidence is shot. McEleney we were all glad to see some glimpses of his old self when introduced. Not at all in agreement with Murray going off as he was the only one who looked energetic rather than a big leggy.

Its been mentioned in a few places that Slovan had strong lean lads with pace throughout their side. I think Dundalk players have bulked to the point where its is all strength at the expense of pace. There needs to be a balance and the strength and conditioning priorities looked at. Less time in the gym and more speed work!!! Gannon is still a rake, doesnt lack strength either and is mobile and pacey not a flipping Hulk lumbering around a pitch.

I still think there is enough in the Dundalk squad to work with in Europe. A pacey striker than can mean tactics changed up properly if need be rather than the like for like big man like Kelly coming on. Dummigan we need to get playing more and he can play left full now that Jarvis is gone. We are unlikely to have such a disrupted year across midfield again. Year 2 we may see the best of Murray and Flores injury free. Young Kelly has loads of time and loads of learning to be done. We have a transfer window to come that could be interesting.

All in all were 7 points clear at the top of the league, game in hand, LC Semi Final, a tasty cup game in Derry, and have played in 3 rounds in Europe...I'm not throwing the toys out of the pram in frustration just yet!!

[mcgonigle]

To be fair to RH results arent a fair judge on there own of a manager.

the consensus is the team has performed poorly compared to last year

Is it? In what way has the team performed poorly compared to last year?

[pineapple stu]

In fairness Stu, it was said that we looked toothless, lowscoring games were expected and that we could play in to better form. All happened - we played better in patches against Qarabag, and were a lot better against Slovan especially last night considering the deferent abilities of the respective opposition. Riga showed there were no mug either in subsequent ties. We were a lot better last night with attacking but were still lacking a cutting edge in the final third. Couple of poor defensive lapses, and a missed penalty or it was a different tie. It wasnt blind Dundalk faith that had the crowd sill engaged prior to the peno miss, it was that we had them pinned for significant periods and Hoare's introduction helped mitigate against the worry of being hit on the break.
I still think that, among Dundalk fans, it's clear the feeling ye could play better far outweighed the idea that ye had disimproved. (Especially Ez's balls-to-the-wind guff, but I guess that's par for the course really)

The bit in bold is exactly the point I made back at the start, but the various Dundalk fans I quoted chose to have an overly positive view of things - they would improve, clean sheets were more important, the win was all that mattered, etc. The game last night went along very similar lines as UCD v Slovan - couple of defensive lapses, a missed chance when ramping up the pressure at 3-1 down on aggregate, etc. But by and large, these aren't the things that could swing a tie. They're the indicators of the difference in quality.

As I say, this isn't a dig at Dundalk. I just find the psychology interesting. It's why you've people telling you players failed in England because they were in too poor a league, or that the league is better than the SPL - stuff that just doesn't stack up to a rational view. And every one of us here is guilty of the same thing about our own clubs. I'll tell you now we've a good chance of beating Pat's next weekend and going on a Cup run for example!

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Is it? In what way has the team performed poorly compared to last year?

Dundalk need to nearly double their goal difference to match last season, they scored a total of 2 goals in Europe and didn't win a game. Whatever about Europe but we've been told again and again by dundalk fans how the rest of the league isn't as good as previous years so either that's not true or Dundalk have gotten worse, can't have it both ways.

[mcgonigle]

Dundalk need to nearly double their goal difference to match last season, they scored a total of 2 goals in Europe and didn't win a game. Whatever about Europe but we've been told again and again by dundalk fans how the rest of the league isn't as good as previous years so either that's not true or Dundalk have gotten worse, can't have it both ways.

We are 1 point worse off than at the same stage last season! Goal difference is nonsense there are no teams as bad as Bray and Limerick this year. We went out a round earlier last season in the EL with a heavier defeat and Tallinn were a far inferior side to anything we played this year.

Not sure who's saying the rest of the league isn't as good as last year. Cork and Waterford have regressed but Rovers, Derry and Bohs have significantly improved.

The only thing that counts is the league table and that has us practically on par with last season

[sbgawa]

I wish I had dundalks problems of not winning the league easily enough but are dundalk fans saying there is no feeling amongst fans that the team have not hit top form this year under vinnie? All those penos and late winners are not signs of a team winning easily 1which was the sense I got from dundalk last year. Famously poor old SK never got a peno :)

[Martinho II]

If Linfield go through when was the last time the Irish League had a side in Europe longer than the LOI ?

last time linfield went through two rounds in europe was in 1966 when they got to the european cup quarter finals!