The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[marinobohs]

Is this the first time the whole issue has been put as simply as that?

So is this what other clubs can expect if they go over the 65% rule, or is this what other clubs can expect if they try to hide going over the 65% rule?

I think the ruling on exceeding the 65% rule is fairly clear (not that there was ever any reason for us to worry :)) - relegation, withholding of prize money non participation in Europe (if apprpriate). It is not the case that derry have been found guilty of breaching the 65% rule (as the accounts for this season are not in yet for clubs) instead it is for breach of "licensing requirements" that most mythical of things.
My own take was that the FAI were presumptous in expelling derry and hence the threat to the players to come forward (thus providing the evidence to counter any possible legal challenge).

Basically the licence process has been torn to pieces this season between clubs finding loop holes and FAI fudge/incompetence. Clubs signed up to these rules and there is a responsibility on them to act in accordance with that. Hopefully no club in future puts themselves in a position where the FAI can relegate/expell them. its simple really, stick by the rules you agreed to.

[EalingGreen]

Thinking about it, I suspect Delaney is "playing a blinder" on this one.

For if you go back to first principles, three things are clear.

1. The FAI want DCFC in the LOI;

2. Unless something drastic happens, DCFC (Wellvan) will go bust/get closed down, due to their debts;

3. If 2. happens, it would be v.difficult for the FAI to achieve 1. (i.e. with a "new" DCFC).

Therefore, the FAI has to find a means and a timetable to avoid 2. happening.

Therefore, they need someone to save DCFC. In its present state (Board and debts), no-one is going to step in.

Therefore they have engineered the resignation of the Board.

Next, they need to address the debts. I think we must assume that a large part (most?) of this must be accounted for either by Directors' Loans/Equity and unpaid players' wages.

Re. the former (Directors), that is presumably sorted, since he has them by the balls over dubious accounting/tax/business reporting etc, such that they are not going to seek their investment back.

Re the latter (unpaid wages), the players know that if nothing happens and DCFC/Wellvan go bust, they will not get paid. I suspect Delaney's "price" for offering them an "amnesty" from having their player registrations suspended next season etc, is an undertaking not to pursue their claim for back-pay should DCFC be saved.

This then leaves the remaining creditors of DCFC/Wellvan for Delaney to deal with. Now I have no real idea who these might be, or for how much. But guessing, I'd say these are:
A. Swifts/Linfield/Cliftonville;
B. Other LOI clubs?
C. HMRC
D. Other non-footballing creditors/suppliers etc;


As regards A., he might hope to buy them off with DCFC's 2009 Prize money;
As regards B. (if they exist), Delaney will no doubt have something over them to keep them quiet;
As regards C, coming to some sort of settlement with HRMC may be the price to be paid by whoever replaces McDaid & Co. on the new Board;
As regards D, I'm really guessing here, but if the others can be satisfied, then maybe this group can be persuaded to wait until DCFC are back on their feet next season and living within their means, so that they might be in a position to start repaying some of the debt?

All of which would explain the timing of events. It is possible, I suppose, that the first the FAI heard about these dual contracts etc was a week ago. More likely (imo), that it was before then, but the FAI kept it quiet until now so as to get the 2009 LOI season completed as "cleanly" as possible.

However, once that hurdle was safely negotiated, it is imperative that they act as quickly as possible, for two reasons:
1. Whilst McDaid and his fellow Board Members remained in place etc, it was always open to Swifts/HMRC/A.N.Other to close down the club; and
2. If the old Board did somehow manage to struggle on until the Spring or beyond, any subsequent collapse woul;d screw up the 2010 season.

Which is why (imo), at a time when you might have expected Delaney and the FAI to be pre-occupied with the France games/WC Qualification, and the new Lansdowne etc, they are spending all their time on DCFC at the moment.

Of course, all this is speculation on my part - wildly so, it must be said. And from his most recent comment about going to Derry to establish exactly how much the clubs debts amount to, Delaney may not be confident that he can pull something off (hence his caginess about which Division, if any, DCFC might be playing in).

But even if I've got the details and sequence etc badly wrong, I'm sure something broadly similar is going on as we speak, since one thing is crystal clear: Delaney is "one cute hoor". ;)

[pól-dcfc]

Apparently it's just been announced we're liquidating. But starting afresh in division 1. I'm uncomfortable with this turn of events if it turns out to be true.

[pól-dcfc]

Listening now - it appears it is administration, no liquidation. Wellvan is gone. New entity to be formed, retaining the DCFC name in the 1st division. Unreal.

EDIT: Also being backed by local business men, although Diamond and McCauley will not sit on the board. Finances will be available for a "sensible, part-time, well-run club"

Massive news.

EDIT 2: Players all gone. Players most likely will not be paid. This utterly STINKS of fudge.

[EalingGreen]

Apparently it's just been announced we're liquidating. But starting afresh in division 1. I'm uncomfortable with this turn of events if it turns out to be true.
In that case, either Delaney has had a look at the (real) books and concluded it simply cannot be saved, or I just wasted my time typing my last post! :D

[pineapple stu]

Listening now - it appears it is administration, no liquidation. Wellvan is gone. New entity to be formed, retaining the DCFC name in the 1st division. Unreal.

EDIT: Also being backed by local business men, although Diamond and McCauley will not sit on the board. Finances will be available for a "sensible, part-time, well-run club"

Massive news.

EDIT 2: Players all gone. Players most likely will not be paid. This utterly STINKS of fudge.
Do you reckon? Best possible outcome, I would have thought.

[pól-dcfc]

This is bloody huge. I am not at all comfortable with this situation.

[pól-dcfc]

Do you reckon? Best possible outcome, I would have thought.

Good outcome for fans. Awful for players in the mouth of Christmas. Awful for Dungannon. Awful for Linfield. Awful for Cliftonville.

Ill feeling in my stomach, but I can't deny that I have some butterflies of excitement about the future down there too.

EDIT: and surely we should be stuck in the A League.

[harps1954]

What were the rules the FAI brought in about a club going through the administration route? Something like X amount of points deducted for whatever % of debts paid. I know at the moment Derry are technically not members of the LOI, but administration normally lasts 100 days - will they be members of the LOI by the time that happens. Still loads of questions to be answered.

Also, if there are no Directors of Wellevan at the moment, who decides that the Company goes into administration?

[pineapple stu]

Good outcome for fans. Awful for players in the mouth of Christmas. Awful for Dungannon. Awful for Linfield. Awful for Cliftonville.
Unfortunate alright, but I think it was inevitable that they weren't going to get paid anyway. The Dungannon winding up order would have seen to that.

[micls]

If wellvan is gone then it must be liquidation, with administration it would be the same company coming out surely?

How are ye securing the name?

[pól-dcfc]

If wellvan is gone then it must be liquidation, with administration it would be the same company coming out surely?

How are ye securing the name?

God knows. As I said, fudge city Arizona. Looks like it might be bought for a nominal fee from Wellvan or just transferred for free. The interview on the radio wasn't that in depth. But it seemed very positive from a club point of view. God knows what happened in the meetings today. Local business men have committed funds to setting up the new entity. Hopefully the start of accountable and transparent dealings within the club. Delaney also said earlier that he was committed to involving the re-awakened Supporters Trust.

[micls]

God knows. As I said, fudge city Arizona. Looks like it might be bought for a nominal fee from Wellvan or just transferred for free. The interview on the radio wasn't that in depth. But it seemed very positive from a club point of view. God knows what happened in the meetings today. Local business men have committed funds to setting up the new entity. Hopefully the start of accountable and transparent dealings within the club. Delaney also said earlier that he was committed to involving the re-awakened Supporters Trust.

In fairness, it doesnt seem that much of a fudge, in FAI terms. Kildare's implosion left them with a spot to fill so it gives them the opportunity to legitimately let ye apply for the first division rather than a championship.

Ye've obviously been told there wont be a problem with an 'independent' license.

[Raheen]

In fairness, it doesnt seem that much of a fudge, in FAI terms. Kildare's implosion left them with a spot to fill so it gives them the opportunity to legitimately let ye apply for the first division rather than a championship.

Ye've obviously been told there wont be a problem with an 'independent' license.

Kildare's implosion leaves a spot to fill in the League, one which Salthill Devon are entitled to first call on...if rules was rules of course and this is the FAI after all.......

[pól-dcfc]

On the liquidation/administration issue, I'm only going by what has been said on Radio Foyle. Pure speculation here, but if we went into administration would it be easier to obtain the name, and then let company fall into liquidation after? As I say, pure armchair speculation.

[blue til i die]

In fairness, it doesnt seem that much of a fudge, in FAI terms. Kildare's implosion left them with a spot to fill so it gives them the opportunity to legitimately let ye apply for the first division rather than a championship.

Ye've obviously been told there wont be a problem with an 'independent' license.

Does that not automatically go to Salthill, with a spot in the premier division the one that need to be filled?

[harps1954]

Kildare's implosion leaves a spot to fill in the League, one which Salthill Devon are entitled to first call on...if rules was rules of course and this is the FAI after all.......


Even with Salthill taking Kildare's place, there is still a place in the FD as Derry's 'dismissal' from the league left another spot in the League.

[blue til i die]

Could they not just promote Fingal and not play the play off??

[harps1954]

Could they not just promote Fingal and not play the play off??


Why??

[blue til i die]

Why??

Because it would bring it back to a ten team premier, and 12 team div 1?

[micls]

Kildare's implosion leaves a spot to fill in the League, one which Salthill Devon are entitled to first call on...if rules was rules of course and this is the FAI after all.......


Does that not automatically go to Salthill, with a spot in the premier division the one that need to be filled?

The premier spot is being filled by Galway who avoided the playoff, which leaves one less team in Division 1, even including Salthill.

Premier-10:
Bohs
Rovers
Cork City
Dundalk
Sligo
St Pats
Galway
Drogheda
UCD
Bray/Fingal

First-Currently 11:
Bray/Fingal
Shels
Waterford
Monaghan
Wexford
Limerick
Athlone
Mervue
Salthill
Harps
Longford.

Leaving 1 spot free in Div 1-luckily for Derry.

[blue til i die]

Jesus, this league is confusing! :D forgot UCD existed there for a minute!

[pól-dcfc]

This is a mental day. Press conference underway now. Probably won't get any clips from it before I start work at six - another day of checking the laptop at the end of the bar.

[christo]

Leaving 1 spot free in Div 1-luckily for Derry.

Why Derry though, what about Tralee and all of them? Can't surely just be Derry's spot

[micls]

Why Derry though, what about Tralee and all of them? Can't surely just be Derry's spot
Im sure they can all apply for it, but Id be shocked if anyone but derry gets it

[culloty82]

Certainly no-one's questioning the current Derry City side's place in the First Division, but if a new entity was formed, what's the difference between them and Cobh's demotion last year?

[Candystripe]

I wonder will the F.A.I. pay Swifts the £30k from the €80k prize monies withheld from Europe and 4th place?

[Philly]

I'm happy for the Derry fans in here.

On the downside,though, two trips to Derry per season is going to be a huge cost to many First Division clubs who are already struggling to pay match-day expenses.

[pól-dcfc]

Im sure they can all apply for it, but Id be shocked if anyone but derry gets it
Paul Diamond said on Radio Foyle that we would "hopefully" get the spot. The way he said hopefully, sounded like he meant definitely.

Delaney speaking now. "Road map to get Derry back is worked out". Basically confirming First Division - "An aspiration that Derry will be there"

Down to Wellvan to decide what they do. Wellvan now split from the club completely. Delaney urged them to pay off their debts (paraphrased).

Delaney: "Future extremely positive" :D

[micls]

Paul Diamond said on Radio Foyle that we would "hopefully" get the spot. The way he said hopefully, sounded like he meant definitely.

Delaney speaking now. "Road map to get Derry back is worked out". Basically confirming First Division - "An aspiration that Derry will be there"

Down to Wellvan to decide what they do. Wellvan now split from the club completely. Delaney urged them to pay off their debts (paraphrased).

Technically Delaney cant say ye have it as the process is independent but realistically its yeres.

[John83]

Jesus, this league is confusing! :D forgot UCD existed there for a minute!
It's our someone-else's-problem field. Mainly, we use it to hide the ducks.

[thischarmingman]

Can someone clarify/have a good guess on what basis we keep the name?

[micls]

Can someone clarify/have a good guess on what basis we keep the name?

Id imagine Wellvan are 'selling' it to the new company.

[jinxy lilywhite]

I'm happy for the Derry fans in here.

On the downside,though, two trips to Derry per season is going to be a huge cost to many First Division clubs who are already struggling to pay match-day expenses.

On the upside Philly Derry have massive travelling support and if the Derry side is competitive and winning, Derry Supporters will follow their side in numbers so in 1st you actually have a side that has decent away support. I imagine the 1st has lacked any good away support since Dundalk got promoted last season


Derry City will rise again like the phoenix from the ashes and hopefully it will be sooner rather than later

[thischarmingman]

I'd tend to agree with Pol, well pleased about having a club for next year but as someone on our forum wrote today:


It now seems that the winding up of Wellvan will be the final, inevitable conclusion to a catastrophic period of mismanagement.

With it goes the hope of all the local suppliers who dealt with Derry City. The very fabric of the community they claimed to come from. They've been shafted. So have Dungannon Swifts, maybe Linfield. Players, management, office staff, the taxman, **** knows who else.

I'd say any form of respect will be very thin on the ground for years to come.

[Magicme]

I'm happy for the Derry fans in here.

On the downside,though, two trips to Derry per season is going to be a huge cost to many First Division clubs who are already struggling to pay match-day expenses.

As Jinxy said the away fans they will bring will compensate and as it is we go to Finn Harps once or twice a year and its not that far from there, so its pretty much the same costs. Rather it than travelling to Cobh.

[the-blue-harp]

yea hopefully there in finn park twice next year. nice gate!:D

[Greenforever]

I reckon Derry will be back competing with Rovers for the premier division title within 3 years and will probably be one of the financially soundest clubs by then, with a complete clean start, come the start of next seaon Id imagine the club will have a huge amount of goodwill just like Rovers got this year and all the negatives are likely to be quickly forgotten.

[Kildareman]

And this isnt a fudge???

Derry are over their heads in debt. What to do? Get the board to resign, go into administration, say sorry to their staff and other creditors and restart all shiney and new in the First Division.
Now what about the punishment for cheating. The players seem to be the only ones punished.
All Derry get is LOI football avoiding the A league and a clean bill of health.

Fudge?? What fudge??

[SkStu]

do they not get a points deduction for going into administration??

[OneRedArmy]

And this isnt a fudge???

Derry are over their heads in debt. What to do? Get the board to resign, go into administration, say sorry to their staff and other creditors and restart all shiney and new in the First Division.
Now what about the punishment for cheating. The players seem to be the only ones punished.
All Derry get is LOI football avoiding the A league and a clean bill of health.

Fudge?? What fudge??The punishment will be with the directors, as per normal company law and as it should be. I still maintain that they should be happy if they avoid jail.

[dcfc_1928]

I wouldn't have thought so - the legal entity previously trading as Derry City is defunct.

The new Derry City isn't in administration, so cannot be docked points.

http://www.aquarterof.co.uk/images/cadburysfudge.jpg


do they not get a points deduction for going into administration??

[gufct]

The winners of Drogheda -v- Fingal fill the premier spot. So its derrys spot in the 1st division.

[HulaHoop]

And this isnt a fudge???

Derry are over their heads in debt. What to do? Get the board to resign, go into administration, say sorry to their staff and other creditors and restart all shiney and new in the First Division.
Now what about the punishment for cheating. The players seem to be the only ones punished.
All Derry get is LOI football avoiding the A league and a clean bill of health.

Fudge?? What fudge??

The punishment is they got relegated (I know technically they weren't "relegated" but that's what the bottom line is when all is said and done) Ask Shels and Dundalk how hard it is to get out of that division. Instead of getting to play european football next season Derry will be playing in places like Jackman Park. That is definitely a punishment.

[MeathDrog]

The winners of Drogheda -v- Fingal fill the premier spot. So its derrys spot in the 1st division.
That's harsh considering we won our playoff match. :rolleyes:

[Buile Shuibhne]

I wonder will the F.A.I. pay Swifts the £30k from the €80k prize monies withheld from Europe and 4th place?

Derry were relegated / thrown out of the league.

They didn't finish 4th in the final table as amended following their expulsion

They're not entitled to the €80k.

Having said that, if Frank And Irene set a precedent in bailing out Cork .................

[OneRedArmy]

Derry City is dead.

We are now Derry city.

With a small c. In Times New Roman font as opposed to Arial.

And we'll revert to our old crest as nobody liked the new one anyway.

Sorted.

[OneRedArmy]

Derry were relegated / thrown out of the league.

They didn't finish 4th in the final table as amended following their expulsion

They're not entitled to the €80k.

Having said that, if Frank And Irene set a precedent in bailing out Cork .................I think thats what Candystripe was hinting at.

[stann]

On the downside,though, two trips to Derry per season is going to be a huge cost to many First Division clubs who are already struggling to pay match-day expenses.

From our point of view that's a point, specially as our lot now always overnights on treks that long. We're due only one journey to Finn Park in 2010 as we had 2 this year, so I'd imagine we'll get 2 to the Brandywell if it comes to it.
And despite Derry's sizeable travelling support, I don't think they'll travel to the RSC in numbers big enough to compensate (yes I'm well aware it'd be a lot more than we'd bring the other way! :D).
But...
What would compensate a little is the increased home gate for the reverse fixture. Other than Wexford, Derry would no doubt be the top draw in the division for us (unless Cork are there too!), and with all due respect to a team I always liked, would bring in a lot more casual Blues fans than Kildare.
Would that be the case with other D1 sides (other than Harps of course :))?

[Sam_Heggy]

Don't get me wrong, having Derry 3 games next season will be great but, if there is no points deduction then what's to stop the likes of Athlone, Longford, Cobh and Harps going into liquidation, cleaning the slate and re-entering into the 1st Division under the same name? Sure we could all benefit from that.

All for Derry coming back, it's of great benefit to Harps gate receipts BUT proper order would be entry into the A league.