The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[galwayjames]

Wouldn't believe a word of what the Derry board are spouting. Suspect that for once the FAI have got this absolutely right.

For the first time in three years.

[brendy_éire]

What do Derry fans think of the board's plan to bring the FAI to court? Do you feel it's the right move?

Meh. Can't see how if matters anyway. Dungannon will have us liquidated by the time any case is heard. Even if we were let back into the Premier, there's still the small issue of £600,000 of debt.


So their court case isn't as part of an attempt to get back into the league? They're aiming to get a payoff and maybe go into the Irish League?

We'll never go back to the IL.


So Fran Gavin was looking for a bribe.......

Don't think that's what was implied. Some sort of unoffical deal. Allegedly.

[Dodge]

Oh my word such a hissy fit from Dodge, catch yourself on and wind your neck in, where have i commented your off field staff level, i was commenting on one individual (only).

How was that a hissy fit?

TBH lads it wouldn't surprise me if the A league is gone next year. Most clubs aren't in favour of it anyway

[brendy_éire]

TBH lads it wouldn't surprise me if the A league is gone next year. Most clubs aren't in favour of it anyway

Been hearing that up here also. Premier Division clubs don't like the extra expense of it.
Would actually work out well for us.

[CSFShels]

We'll never go back to the IL.
So why exactly is the club taking the FAI to court and ensuring it will have no participation in League Of Ireland football either? Makes no sense.

[galwayjames]

So why exactly is the club taking the FAI to court and ensuring it will have no participation in League Of Ireland football either? Makes no sense.

The league itself doesn't make sense

[CSFShels]

The league itself doesn't make sense
Yes it does. It is a congregation of a number of football teams, from different regions, with the team who get the highest amount of points winning the league.

Congratulations on another failed attempt to look witty.

[galwayjames]

Congratulations on another failed attempt to look witty.

If you think about it I'm not being witty at all. The league is failed, all the best clubs bar Pats have had severe financial difficulties, and that's not to even mention the clubs in the lower parts of the PD and those in the First Division. How the league is left get into this state of absolute mess does not make sense. Surely the FAI in their power should be much stricter?

[sligoman]

all the best clubs bar Pats have had severe financial difficulties, and that's not to even mention the clubs in the lower parts of the PDRemind me where Pat's finished in the league?:confused:

[CSFShels]

If you think about it I'm not being witty at all.
Correct.

[galwayjames]

Remind me where Pat's finished in the league?:confused:

I'm referring to all clubs who've competed at the top of the league over recent years, not based on one season.

[galwayjames]

Correct.

You're right. I'm being deadly serious.

[CSFShels]

You're right. I'm being deadly serious.
Thats probably the worst part of it.

[awec]

In all seriousness though, as an outsider, it seems that every time we hear about the LOI is when we're hearing about how yet another club is in financial difficulty.

[galwayjames]

Thats probably the worst part of it.

There's no point in arguing about this, it'll just be deleted by dahamsta (and rightly so) but why you can't take me seriously I don't know :confused:

[CSFShels]

In all seriousness though, as an outsider, it seems that every time we hear about the LOI is when we're hearing about how yet another club is in financial difficulty.
Isn't that the same with businesses in the south as a whole though? Not saying LOI clubs have been run prudently but still.

[awec]

Isn't that the same with businesses in the south as a whole though? Not saying LOI clubs have been run prudently but still.
Businesses? Probably, but businesses all over the world are suffering right now.

LOI football clubs just seem to be continually in financial problems.

[galwayjames]

LOI football clubs just seem to be continually in financial problems.

LOI football clubs were in financial trouble before the recession, it's just something we've come to expect sadly

[awec]

LOI football clubs were in financial trouble before the recession, it's just something we've come to expect sadly

Yep.

I may be way off the mark here, but surely it's time to realise that the full time model just won't work?

[galwayjames]

I may be way off the mark here, but surely it's time to realise that the full time model just won't work?

With the success of Shamrock Rovers, maybe part-time might only be a step down financially, because Rovers ran a team with players on much bigger wages right to the end this season and I'd fancy them to do the same if not better next year

[brendy_éire]

Yep.

I may be way off the mark here, but surely it's time to realise that the full time model just won't work?

More to do with the level wages being paid rather than the fact that it's full-time wages. Wages could be reduced and full-time status retained, although we'd lose a lot of players to Britain because of it.

[awec]

More to do with the level wages being paid rather than the fact that it's full-time wages. Wages could be reduced and full-time status retained, although we'd lose a lot of players to Britain because of it.
You probably would, but then you'd be more financially sound.

[CSFShels]

Yep.

I may be way off the mark here, but surely it's time to realise that the full time model just won't work?
Plenty of clubs that have been suffering from financial difficulties don't even run as a full-time unit. Full-time is not the problem. Paying over-excessive wages is. If clubs have to pay over-excessive wages to go full-time, then they should not be full-time. But a club like Cork or Shamrock Rovers or Derry with a very big fanbase, should be able to handle a prudently run full-time business. Rovers look like they just might be able.

[Dodge]

LOI football clubs just seem to be continually in financial problems.

Some are. Others aren't.

No real problems for the majority of clubs this year

[kdjaC]

Oh my word such a hissy fit from Dodge, catch yourself on and wind your neck in, where have i commented your off field staff level, i was commenting on one individual (only).

Sadlier on 4 grand a week, unlike pats to **** money against the wind :confused:

[pól-dcfc]

Thank God they put us out of our misery.

Time to start from scratch.

This. As Derry fans, it is our responsibility to ensure that the law breaking cheats of Wellvan Ltd are never allowed near a fotball team in this city again. Time to start afresh. Fan run, transparent club football, hopefully within the LoI.

We will rise again, responsibly.

DCFC Allez Allez Allez.

[pól-dcfc]

RTE News report from earlier tonight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPxLCMVkprE

Disgusting. Utterly disgusting. Pat McDaid: "Shame on them"? NO - SHAME ON US. What a horrible cheating bunch of renegades (the dirtiest word I can use on this forum, I think). We deserve everything, and more, that we got.

I am so ashamed. But McDaid and the board should be mortified.

Thanks for destroying a proud club, and turning us into awful, awful cheats.

EDIT: Can I apologise to any Cork, Bohs, Shels or Drogs fan I have ever offended on this board. Our club genuinely seemed to be doing things above board. We were cheating all along. If I ever appeared condemning or condescending, I apologise. We kept it hidden for longer, but we were filth the whole bloody time.

EDIT 2: If we get away with this on some sort of technicality, the FAI should try to have us expelled by any possible means. I hope this is the end of Wellvan Ltd, and DCFC as we know it. Disgusted. Sick to the stomach.

[GalwayRed]

Based on what the FAI are saying here the decision seems fair and I would be inclined to believe them over the derry board. I do feel sorry for the fans though. They definitly don't deserve this.
I assume DCFC will be wound up over the swifts case now. Hopefully a new club can represent derry in the loi in the near future though.

[A N Mouse]

That statement from the board is absolutely sickening. I live in the hope that some kind of criminal charges are forthcoming. As has has been previously stated we haven't seen the end of this. Aledegely quigely's statement to the fai was in response to some kind of posturing to the fai from dcfc with regards to other clubs finances.

[sligored]

I know these two issues are unrelated but if derry are unable to play top division fooball they have no chance of paying the debt of 600k.

Who , if anyone , will be held ultimately accountable for this.

[WoodquayBoy]

I thought the same of McDaid when I saw the news clip - the man is seriously deluded, shame on the FAI? No, shame on the cheating lying scumbags who, as Pol said, have utterly destroyed the reputation of such a fine club.
And as I said before, if the players and staff were aware of these double contracts, they should also be banned from the LOI

[Sumac]

I thought the same of McDaid when I saw the news clip - the man is seriously deluded, shame on the FAI? No, shame on the cheating lying scumbags who, as Pol said, have utterly destroyed the reputation of such a fine club.
And as I said before, if the players and staff were aware of these double contracts, they should also be banned from the LOI

Would be a bit unfair to ban the players - not exactly millionaires - they need to be able to earn a living.
If the tax man wants to go after them so be it

[L.T.F.C.]

Any chance of a cheap drum?

[Nedser]

Would be a bit unfair to ban the players - not exactly millionaires - they need to be able to earn a living.
If the tax man wants to go after them so be it

So because they're not exactly millionaires they can be excused for knowingly being paid under the table? Sorry, no they can't. Kenny must have known, and the players must have known. Their pleas to the media about not being paid can now be seen in a different light.

It's a sad, sad day for the league and more particularly for Derry City, who have been a great part of the league for over two decades. All those responsible for their demise should be ashamed, players etc included.

[brendy_éire]

I know these two issues are unrelated but if derry are unable to play top division fooball they have no chance of paying the debt of 600k.

Who , if anyone , will be held ultimately accountable for this.

HMRC will take what they can. The rest of the debt won't be paid.

[EalingGreen]

This. As Derry fans, it is our responsibility to ensure that the law breaking cheats of Wellvan Ltd are never allowed near a fotball team in this city again. Time to start afresh. Fan run, transparent club football, hopefully within the LoI.

We will rise again, responsibly.

DCFC Allez Allez Allez.
First of all, let me express sincere commiserations to all DCFC fans (inc the ones I've argued with on here!) for what has happened.
When my team (NI) lost to Slovakia last month, I was gutted, genuinely gutted, for a fortnight or more.
Yet losing a game doesn't even begin to compare with losing your team, so Goodness knows how Candystripes fans must be feeling right now.

Anyhow, on the issue of what happens next, I must say it is hard to see any way out of the mire for the club, whether in its present guise, or a new one.

As I understand it, DCFC (effectively Wellvan) have been thrown out of the LOI by the FAI and it is clear that whatever else happens, DCFC/Wellvan will NOT be allowed to play in the LOI Prem next year.

And since regardless of what Delaney and the FAI may think about DCFC/Wellvan and their conduct etc, the big picture "demands" a DCFC somewhere in ther LOI, it is clear they will not have taken this action against them unless they were certain it would stand up.

Therefore talk by DCFC of taking this to Court can only be so much hot air.

Of course, Delaney did mention finding a way to get DCFC/Wellvan into the 1st. Divn next year, however, I suspect that may be a smokescreen by him.
For he must also know that whilst DCFC/Wellvan may try to use their existing Licence to get back into the LOI next year, it seems inevitable that DCFC/Wellvan will be closed down imminently, whether by Swifts or HMRC.

Therefore a new club ("DCFC2010"?) will have to be formed - presumably by fans/wellwishers etc. However, as Mr. Parker pointed out earlier, "DCFC2010" may not be permitted by UEFA to play in the LOI, or even 'A' League, for jurisdictional reasons.

This is because it was DCFC/Wellvan who were originally granted an exemption to play in FAI-run competitions, effectively due to force majeure (i.e. the Troubles etc meaning they had no other option).

However, that situation no longer exists and following Setanta Cup games against Linfield and the Glens etc, UEFA would presumably be entitled to ask why "DCFC2010" may no longer play in NI.

Now I have made no secret of my own wish to see a team from Derry back in the IL (just as fans of DCFC have made their opposition to that equally clear!). But I'm not sure how the IFA could admit a new entity like "DCFC2010" into the IL under their own rules (assuming they are so minded).

For never mind the practical difficulties of revamping the two Divisions etc, in order to take their place in the IL, any applicant club has to qualify for a Licence. Now I'm not familiar with what the qualifying criteria are, but even assuming that the criteria at Championship level are not very onerous, would "DCFC2010" be able to meet those?

If the new club was still being run by pretty much the old DCFC Board (i.e. they have somehow avoided disqualification from being Directors under Company Law, or being run out of town by DCFC fans), then there is no way Swifts, C'ville, Linfield etc will have them near the place (imo).

And if it is an entirely new set up, unless some wealthy individual turns up waving wads of cash etc, what exactly would the new people behind the club (fans and wellwishers, effectively) have to offer, to justify a Licence from the IFA and entry to the IL?

Sure, they would have the name, history and tradition etc of the old DCFC, plus the potential for decent support etc. However, they surely cannot have the money to sign decent players, even on a part-time basis, or employ even the minimum staff needed to run a club at senior level. Moreover, it is a Licensing requirement that if a club does not own its own ground, it must at least have a Lease which runs for a minimum term.

On which point, Oxford United Stars were turned down by the IFA, since Derry City Council would only grant them an Annual Lease to share the Brandywell with DCFC. Therefore, unless the Council were to facilitate "DCFC2010" somehow, where would they be able to play IL games?

I guess they could share with Institute for a period, except that afaik Stute didn't want Oxford when approached, so are hardly likely to want DCFC as their tenants.

All of which, of course, is assuming that any of this would be accepteable to DCFC fans, who have made their views pretty clear.

It really is hard to see any way out, other perhaps than to start again at the bottom, by entering a team in the Intermediate League in NI and work their way up the pyramid? Maybe they could even merge with Oxford Utd Stars - I daresay Pizza Hutton could put in a word!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_United_Stars_F.C.

[Hulsey]

Would be a bit unfair to ban the players - not exactly millionaires - they need to be able to earn a living.
If the tax man wants to go after them so be it

Surely the players in question would have had to sign both contracts? If thats the case they should be expelled too. They knew the club was cheating and morally should have walked away from it

[pól-dcfc]

This is because it was DCFC/Wellvan who were originally granted an exemption to play in FAI-run competitions, effectively due to force majeure (i.e. the Troubles etc meaning they had no other option).

Incorrect, afaik. It was a different holding company. Don't see why the holding company couldn't be changed again.

[MariborKev]

This is because it was DCFC/Wellvan who were originally granted an exemption to play in FAI-run competitions, effectively due to force majeure (i.e. the Troubles etc meaning they had no other option).

EG,

The details transferred from Derry City FC to Wellvan in 94, and possibly could transfer again.

The rest of the post once against smacks of egotistical nonsense.

[pól-dcfc]

EG,

The details transferred from Derry City FC to Wellvan in 94, and possibly could transfer again.

The rest of the post once against smacks of egotistical nonsense.

Why say "I am not sure if Derry will be playing under the FAI or IFA in the future" in seventeen words, when you can say it in 824?

And EG - what's this obsession you have with "DCFC2010". You are the only person I have seen using this abortion of a name.

[OneRedArmy]

Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious with a hint of added trollWhy don't you and your bluenose buddies toddle off to discuss your great league elsewhere. We're not interested in merging with anyone.

If you replaced Derry City with "girl" and Irish League fans with "men in raincoats", you'd all be charged with stalking and subject to an exclusion order.

[passerrby]

does derry have to apply to the fai or eufa to play in the first div or a champoinship

[fbtn]

Why don't you and your bluenose buddies toddle off to discuss your great league elsewhere. We're not interested in merging with anyone.

If you replaced Derry City with "girl" and Irish League fans with "men in raincoats", you'd all be charged with stalking and subject to an exclusion order.

He he :D

[centre mid]

does derry have to apply to the fai or eufa to play in the first div or a champoinship

to the licencing committee iirc, (FAI)

[OneRedArmy]

does derry have to apply to the fai or eufa to play in the first div or a champoinshipGood question.

Heard a rumour the FAI themselves aren't sure they have the power to re-admit as we're in another jurisdiction.

[Mr_Parker]

Not sure if this has been asked or mentioned but are all the results void versus Derry and the points going to be reallocated accordingly?

[Mr_Parker]

Good question.

Heard a rumour the FAI themselves aren't sure they have the power to re-admit as we're in another jurisdiction.

Was discussing this point earlier in the thread. Any new club would have to apply to join the IFA in the first instance before they could seek special dispensation imo.

[Mr_Parker]

Why don't you and your bluenose buddies toddle off We're only looking after one of our own. ;)

[blue til i die]

Not sure if this has been asked or mentioned but are all the results void versus Derry and the points going to be reallocated accordingly?

No, as season is already over, all results stand, but derry are removed from the league table. Top and Bottom of the table would still look the same.

[John83]

Not sure if this has been asked or mentioned but are all the results void versus Derry and the points going to be reallocated accordingly?
As the season has been completed, Derry's results stand. So say the FAI.