The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[SwanVsDalton]

I wonder what crazy individual will put themsleves forward now. Meanwhile Stephen Kenny still remains exempt from it all !!

I'd imagine an interim board will be put in place until someone else comes in long term, although god knows who would want it.

[DmanDmythDledge]

So the financial side would have been overcome?
To blame a player is mental, the club f*cked him over [open to correction] by not paying him something like 8 weeks wages, I assume he had a mortgage to pay and possibly a family to keep?
He has a young child, no more than 18 months, more than likely younger.


Is Darren Quigley the only player is LOI history to be failed to be paid by two clubs at the same time? By the loan agreement, Fingal allegedly paid Derry 75% of wages, which the club pocketed and then failed to pay Darren his 'actual' amount.

As has been said, you couldn't make it up.
I didn't think my estimation of the Derry board could go even lower but this is surely rock bottom now for whatever ounce of respect they used to have.

[Mr A]

Official: Board have resigned.

Aha. The thick plottens.

[brendy_éire]

FAI Statement:

The Football Association of Ireland tonight (November 10) confirmed that following a meeting in Abbotstown, the players of Derry City Football Club have put on public record the fact that they had signed two contracts, the standard player’s contract and a separate contract on club headed paper.

As of today, the FAI has accepted these players’ assurances that they were not personally aware of any financial irregularities at the club. The FAI also recognise the difficulties that have been created by the club in not paying players for the last eight/nine weeks at Derry City FC, and the impact that has on each player and his immediate family.

The FAI has also confirmed that it intends to send a delegation to Derry, on Thursday, with a view to beginning the process of returning the club to stability, now that the Club Chairman has accepted his untenable position.

ENDS

[brendy_éire]

STATEMENT OF THE PLAYERS OF DERRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB



Tuesday 10 November 2009



The events of the past week have come as major shock and disappointment to the players of Derry City Football Club. Until the allegations of “dual contracts” were made very recently, no player was aware of the existence of a second document which contained different figures to the one which we had originally agreed.



The position is that at the beginning of the contract period, each player was presented with a document on Derry City headed paper which contained income amounts which we each individually agreed with the club. With only one exception, no player knowingly signed a second document. It now appears that, what the club had misrepresented to us as a blank registration form containing no figures, terms or conditions was, in fact, a second document upon which different figures were subsequently entered and lodged with the league. The full terms of this contract were never made available to the players and we fully believed that the wages which we were being paid were disclosed to the league in accordance with normal practice.



It has transpired that one of the players was aware of the existence of the second document but had ensured that the figures entered on it were identical to those on the original headed paper. No other players were aware of a second document.



As soon as the players became aware of the situation, we have immediately agreed to set the record straight and we wish to have nothing to do with this wrongdoing. We are deeply distressed at this turn of events and we wish to distance ourselves entirely from the board’s conduct.



We recognise that the actions of the club board have compromised the integrity of the league but we wish to make it perfectly clear that we were not knowing participants in this deception.



We hope that by addressing these issues and by clarifying our position, the club can now move forward and have a future in senior football.

[Kildareman]

But to obtain a First Division all wages to staff is to be paid up to date or an agreement put in place.

I cant see this happening although share prices in fudge have risen sharply recently.
Haven't transfer fees to be all paid up but does this include any sell-on agreements?

If this is looked at as part of the transfer fee then Dungannon have to be paid as well before a licence is awarded.
Or is it only within the LOI?

[Mr A]

So the players weren't aware of irregularities yet they signed both contracts?

Wut? This makes NO sense!

[brendy_éire]

Just for the record, here's Pat McDaid's statement:

It is with deep regret and sadness that I must announce with immediate effect my resignation as Chairman of Derry City Football Club
I also take this opportunity to announce the resignations of Joe W Doherty, Peter Leonard and Francis Houston

I feel that this is an important step to ensure Derry City return to the League of Ireland and it’s quite clear my relationship with Mr Delaney and the FAI has reached a point of no return. This was articulated clearly by Mr Delaney on this mornings Radio Foyle program and this has left me in a difficult position to say the least. Respectfully this is perhaps the only issue on which Mr Delaney and I can agree upon


It’s my view that it would not be in the best interests of this football club for me to continue in light of the stance taken by the FAI and I need to take into consideration the players, fans, office staff, coaches and volunteers of the club. Personalities have to be a secondary consideration and the sole focus of efforts must now be turned into securing our senior status in Irish football


Without prejudice to all that has happened, or allegedly happened, Derry City Football Club must survive and I feel, despite my desire to remain and be part of a solution to move this club forward, that the best interests of the club are being served by this decision


On a personal level I feel I have always acted in the best interests of this magnificent club and it has been a privilege and a huge honor to have been chairman for this past two years. Derry City is a big part of my life and four different generations of my family have supported this historical club and I take this decision to resign with a heavy heart


I would like to take this opportunity to thank a number of people who have supported me over this past two years:


My family and friends have given me unquantifiable support – my wife Shauna and three children Patrick, Caoimhe and Emma together with my wider family circle have been a source of tremendous support and encouragement during what for long times have been testing and tremendously pressurised circumstances


I would also like to place on record my thanks to all directors I have worked with, office staff, coaches, players, club volunteers and in particular the fans of this club which are without doubt the best in Ireland and its been an incredible privilege for me to work on behalf of so many fantastic people


I would also like to thank the vast majority of the local and national press and media for the courtesy and respect they have afforded me


Stephen Mc Carron is remaining on the board of Derry City FC and I wish him and any future new directors the very best of good fortune for the future and its my genuine and honest hope and desire that the current difficulties may be overcome


I will forever remain as a supporter and sponsor of this football club and would now ask for people to kindly respect my privacy as taking this decision has been one of the hardest decisions of my life, but its my firm belief I was left with no choice and will not take any risks in terms of our future return to senior football, by remaining in place.

[thischarmingman]

So the players weren't aware of irregularities yet they signed both contracts?

Wut? This makes NO sense!

The FAI, Derry City board, and Derry City players have all released official press statements in the same half hour period...it's possible there was a little but of, shall we say, 'understanding' going on in the background...

[Nedser]

So the players weren't aware of irregularities yet they signed both contracts?

Wut? This makes NO sense!

Did you miss this part of the players statement?

"The position is that at the beginning of the contract period, each player was presented with a document on Derry City headed paper which contained income amounts which we each individually agreed with the club. With only one exception, no player knowingly signed a second document. It now appears that, what the club had misrepresented to us as a blank registration form containing no figures, terms or conditions was, in fact, a second document upon which different figures were subsequently entered and lodged with the league. The full terms of this contract were never made available to the players and we fully believed that the wages which we were being paid were disclosed to the league in accordance with normal practice".

So they're claiming they thought the second document was just a registration form. Seems plausible.

[blue til i die]

FAI Statement:

The Football Association of Ireland tonight (November 10) confirmed that following a meeting in Abbotstown, the players of Derry City Football Club have put on public record the fact that they had signed two contracts, the standard player’s contract and a separate contract on club headed paper.

As of today, the FAI has accepted these players’ assurances that they were not personally aware of any financial irregularities at the club. The FAI also recognise the difficulties that have been created by the club in not paying players for the last eight/nine weeks at Derry City FC, and the impact that has on each player and his immediate family.

The FAI has also confirmed that it intends to send a delegation to Derry, on Thursday, with a view to beginning the process of returning the club to stability, now that the Club Chairman has accepted his untenable position.

ENDS

So Pat McDaid is a big liar and they all signed dual contracts?

[White Horse]

So they're claiming they thought the second document was just a registration form. Seems plausible.


Plausible :eek:

Are you having a laugh.

Would you sign a blank employment contract with your employer? "Just fill in the terms later Boss when you have a chance"

This story stinks.

[OneRedArmy]

So, footballers are as stupid as they say.....

Although they are bright enough to know when to fess up.

The PFAI have played a blinder here. The players are effectively claiming they didn't know what a Standard Player Contract was.

Unbelievable.

Literally.

[paudie]

But to obtain a First Division all wages to staff is to be paid up to date or an agreement put in place.

I cant see this happening although share prices in fudge have risen sharply recently.
Haven't transfer fees to be all paid up but does this include any sell-on agreements?

If this is looked at as part of the transfer fee then Dungannon have to be paid as well before a licence is awarded.
Or is it only within the LOI?

It's possible some Derry entity will have to start from A Division next year. Therefore they wouldn't have to pay old companies debts.

[blue til i die]

So, footballers are as stupid as they say.....

Although they are bright enough to know when to fess up.

The PFAI have played a blinder here. The players are effectively claiming they didn't know what a Standard Player Contract was.

Unbelievable.

Literally.

Are they not actually claiming that the didnt realise the figures werent the same? no?

[OneRedArmy]

Are they not actually claiming that the didnt realise the figures werent the same? no?They are claiming they signed the unofficial contract on headed paper populated with the real details and then signed a blank Standard Playing Contract which they thought was a registration document....

"Aye right hi" as we say in Derry.

[brendy_éire]

So Pat McDaid is a big liar and they all signed dual contracts?

Not dual contracts as such, no. Just that the players signed the Offical Contract, which was given to the FAI, then signed their 'real' contract with higher wages on it.

[Riddickcule]

Well then, where will DCFC be playing next year?

Is it the defo the First Division? Then we have ppl saying they've been banned from the LOI altogether

[brendy_éire]

Well then, where will DCFC be playing next year?

Is it the defo the First Division? Then we have ppl saying they've been banned from the LOI altogether

Your guess is as good as mine. FAI want to meet the Club on Thursday.

[Jofspring]

Well then, where will DCFC be playing next year?

Is it the defo the First Division? Then we have ppl saying they've been banned from the LOI altogether

Haven't checked for an update tonight but last i did Derry are out of LOI altogether for the moment anyway.

[Mr A]

I can accept that one, or maybe a few players signed a blank form without really thinking about it... but every single one of them? Seems to be stretching things a little, and that's being kind.

I guess its impossible to prove they knew though.

[Kildareman]

The rumour is our board are about to resign, the players are going to admit to bonuses but not dual contracts, Paul Diamond and Hugh McDaid are returnng and we will be in the 1st division next season

Guessing or what?

I wonder were the players guessing when they signed the contracts??

[OneRedArmy]

Haven't checked for an update tonight but last i did Derry are out of LOI altogether for the moment anyway.It looks like it will be similar to the Limerick 37 - Danny Drew situation.

Hopefully anyway, a few more complications to solve, but thats what the FAI seem to be trying.

[Nedser]

Plausible :eek:

Are you having a laugh.

Would you sign a blank employment contract with your employer? "Just fill in the terms later Boss when you have a chance"

This story stinks.

I was actually being sarcastic but I realise now I didn't make that obvious!

While I can believe that one or two of them might be thick enough to have signed a blank form, it's very, very hard to believe that every single one of them is that thick. But maybe we're being too kind to them!

[eamo1]

So none of the players ever discussed amoung themselves that "blank player registration form" they signed,YA RIGHT:rolleyes:.
Is there a tax issue here aswell?Players basically avoided paying higher taxes because the higher waged contracts werent publicly known till last Wednesday.So would the U.K Revenue crowd not want "a word" with the Derry chairman and board??

[SwanVsDalton]

I can accept that one, or maybe a few players signed a blank form without really thinking about it... but every single one of them? Seems to be stretching things a little, and that's being kind.

I guess its impossible to prove they knew though.

As someone already said there's definitely a little bit of mutual 'understanding' going on. I'm sure the FAI, PFAI and players alike will be happy to sweep this through quietly.

[SwanVsDalton]

So none of the players ever discussed amoung themselves that "blank player registration form" they signed,YA RIGHT:rolleyes:.
Is there a tax issue here aswell?Players basically avoided paying higher taxes because the higher waged contracts werent publicly known till last Wednesday.So would the U.K Revenue crowd not want "a word" with the Derry chairman and board??

I'm sure they'll be adding that to the 'word' they'll be having on the ten weeks of wages they've yet to pay tax on, not to mention the other 'strong' words about the penalties, interest and add-ons they've accrued.

[Dodge]

The PFAI might want to have a word with their shop steward if he was allowing other players to sign blank contracts. He signed one himself apparently

[tippex]

just seen the quigley interview and I feel so sorry for the lad.

From the sounds of things the Derry board have been extremely calculating and have engaged in a serious fraud. I would not be surpirsed if this led to some legal action from the revenue on tax evasion charges.

The mind boggles as to how they thought this was fine to do. They have put a very well supported and respected club into serious trouble and have tarnished the name of Derry city forever.

I hope that the fans can work with a new board (fan driven) to ensure that you can keep the club alive.

[White Horse]

I was actually being sarcastic but I realise now I didn't make that obvious!

After the ridiculous attempt to stir up Derry fans against the FAI (with some success), I was beginning to think that some people will believe anything.

I missed the subtlety irony of you post.

[pól-dcfc]

What a night! Been at work since six, but frantically hitting F5 on the bar computer. Absolutely delighted to be honest. It completely stinks of fudge, but we now have a way back. Hopefully the meeting on Thursday can bring more good news.

I don't think we've heard the last of this either - if what the players have said stands up, then surely the former (yay!) board are guilty of fraud (not so yay). I hope everyone gets out of this with at least some reputation intact.

[pól-dcfc]

just seen the quigley interview and I feel so sorry for the lad.

From the sounds of things the Derry board have been extremely calculating and have engaged in a serious fraud. I would not be surpirsed if this led to some legal action from the revenue on tax evasion charges.

The mind boggles as to how they thought this was fine to do. They have put a very well supported and respected club into serious trouble and have tarnished the name of Derry city forever.

I hope that the fans can work with a new board (fan driven) to ensure that you can keep the club alive.
To be fair, our boards have always been "fan driven". Pat and co. messed up big style, but no one can doubt that they love the club.

And I hope Darren Quigley is not vilified in the Brandywell if we meet Sporting Fingal anytime soon.

[SMorgan]

just seen the quigley interview and I feel so sorry for the lad.

From the sounds of things the Derry board have been extremely calculating and have engaged in a serious fraud. I would not be surpirsed if this led to some legal action from the revenue on tax evasion charges.

The mind boggles as to how they thought this was fine to do. They have put a very well supported and respected club into serious trouble and have tarnished the name of Derry city forever.

I hope that the fans can work with a new board (fan driven) to ensure that you can keep the club alive.

Something I found very strange about the Quigley interview was that he said he went to the FAI because they are a players SIPTU. That's not so . The PFAI are the players SIPTU with the FAI being a governing body and not there to protect the interests of the players. I wonder is the PFAI behind this and they got the FAI involved, which it has to be said wouldn't have been the wrong thing to do. There has been times in the past when one of those bodies were contacted and the other one made an uninvited and unwelcomed interventsion.

[SMorgan]

No hold on I think there is some confusion around this point. The players weren't paid for two contracts. They got the amounts that were shown on the contracts they agreed and signed. The contract given to the FAI were for lesser payments and appear to be simply for the purpose of getting around the 65% cap.

That's my understanding of the matter.

[Nedser]

One point/query on the players thing - if they are to be believed (ha!), did they not realise the wages going into their bank accounts was a lot more than the wages on the contracxt they signed? Methinks a trip to the confessional for telling porkies is in order

Read the statament again. They're claiming that the only contract they knowingly signed was the unofficial/illegal one, which is the one that had the inflated salary that they were actually paid. The second contract, the one they "thought was just a registration form", was the official FAI Standard Player Contract, which had the lower salary that was declared to the FAI.

Still not saying I believe a word of it by the way, just saying that's what their statement says!

[Dotsy]

Is it clear which amounts were declared to the tax authorities by the club.

[Mr A]

It does seem that the PFAI and FAI take a very soft line on players being a party to systematic cheating.

Are we really to believe that the players didn't notice that their P60 (presuming they got one) at the end of last season was radically different to what they'd expect?

[pineapple stu]

Are we really to believe that the players didn't notice that their P60 (presuming they got one) at the end of last season was radically different to what they'd expect?
I think the P60 would have been what they expected though; that's the point (as far as I can see).

They agreed £500 a week (say) and signed a contract to that effect. They then signed this magical blank piece of paper for the craic, without querying what it was (oh, OK - they also signed a contract for £300 a week) which was purely for the purposes of getting around the 65% rule. They still expected to get paid the larger amount.

There's no indication that I can see that tax has been avoided surely? Everything seems to have been done officially except for the second contract to mislead the FAI. Presumably the players were told they had to do things this way to get extra pay.

That's my take on it anyway.

On the First Division promotion thing, remember Sporting Fingal jumped the queue last year when joining the First Division. All the interested/ready A League clubs were asked to apply, and the one with the highest marks or best presentation was promoted. I imagine something similar will see Derry back in the First Division next season to fill the gap created by themselves.

I think.

[Longfordian]

Would the increased figures not have appeared in their accounts some place, even as a total, if there was tax paid on the correct amount?. Surely the auditor would have to see the P35?.

[pineapple stu]

That's the other thing I don't understand. The money wasn't cash payments, it seems; it was regular wage payments through the bank. If (if) that's the case, and there was a massive extra chanrge for, say, groundswork, how come the extra underage costs at Bohs aren't being investigated? What brought all this about so quickly? Is it a case of the FAI realising Derry as a club were screwed anyway and they wanted to enforce quick regime change so the club could be back for next season?

[Mr A]

Would the increased figures not have appeared in their accounts some place, even as a total, if there was tax paid on the correct amount?. Surely the auditor would have to see the P35?.

They haven't lodged accounts since 2007. I guess now we know why.

Stu- there's been nothing to indicate that tax wasn't paid on the whole amount.

But then up until yesterday the Derry board were denying any wrongdoing. I would guess that HMRC will be looking at this very carefully indeed, and cannot help suspecting that there is more to come on this.

[Longfordian]

They had to provide audited accounts for licensing though. It should have been picked up on then if it was regular wage payments and not cash.

[pineapple stu]

and cannot help suspecting that there is more to come on this.
That's the only thing I'm sure of in all this!

Where's Kev to tell us there's more craziness on the way?

[OneRedArmy]

That's the other thing I don't understand. The money wasn't cash payments, it seems; it was regular wage payments through the bank. If (if) that's the case, and there was a massive extra chanrge for, say, groundswork, how come the extra underage costs at Bohs aren't being investigated? What brought all this about so quickly? Is it a case of the FAI realising Derry as a club were screwed anyway and they wanted to enforce quick regime change so the club could be back for next season?.............and as has been said before, monthly management accounts are not worth the paper they are written on.

[Longfordian]

Yes but as I said above you also have to provide full audited accounts each year for licensing. Sounds like the auditor wasn't doing his job or maybe it was being overlooked by the powers that be.

[Mr A]

The fact that Derry did not simply make the extra payments to players for some extra made up job at the club (as is obviously happening elsewhere) would say to me that the likelihood is that this activity was not just aimed at the 65% rule.

I also would find it worrying from a DCFC point of view that the vice chair has chosen to remain. His pronouncements on DC-Chat would not inspire confidence.

[Ash]

Here's a blank piece of paper, now can you sign it there at the bottom like a
good chap and we'll print up the details later. Nothing for you to worry about.

[OneRedArmy]

The fact that Derry did not simply make the extra payments to players for some extra made up job at the club (as is obviously happening elsewhere) would say to me that the likelihood is that this activity was not just aimed at the 65% rule.We all know there are no real jobs in Derry, never mind made up ones.

[Schumi]

On the First Division promotion thing, remember Sporting Fingal jumped the queue last year when joining the First Division. All the interested/ready A League clubs were asked to apply, and the one with the highest marks or best presentation was promoted. I imagine something similar will see Derry back in the First Division next season to fill the gap created by themselves.While this may well be what happens, there was no A League in 2007 to give an order to which club should be given the first division place so there was no real alternative to a beauty contest to decide.


That's the other thing I don't understand. The money wasn't cash payments, it seems; it was regular wage payments through the bank. If (if) that's the case, and there was a massive extra chanrge for, say, groundswork, how come the extra underage costs at Bohs aren't being investigated? What brought all this about so quickly? Is it a case of the FAI realising Derry as a club were screwed anyway and they wanted to enforce quick regime change so the club could be back for next season?
Could the money have come from undeclared gate receipts and so not have been visible to the FAI at all?

[pineapple stu]

While this may well be what happens, there was no A League in 2007 to give an order to which club should be given the first division place so there was no real alternative to a beauty contest to decide.
There was in a way; the clubs had all applied when Kilkenny pulled out. Fingal were an A League side when they signed Conan, I remember. It's not strictly the same thing, but it's not completely different either.


Could the money have come from undeclared gate receipts and so not have been visible to the FAI at all?
But do that in cash, not going through people's bank accounts (and presumably the club's account, if as it seems, it was only the larger payment that was going through).


Here's a blank piece of paper, now can you sign it there at the bottom like a
good chap and we'll print up the details later. Nothing for you to worry about.
Maybe they thought Pat McDaid was Brian Clough?