The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[Réiteoir]

Wow - do the fai have the power to do that to the players?

I would assume that - as it's an FAI Controlled League now - and that as Derry have been thrown out - all Players Registrations revert to the custody of the FAI - who can do what ever they want with them.

They can decided if and when they choose to release them.

[Kildareman]

I reckon the next move of John Delaney will be to announce an amnesty to players of all clubs in the LOI to come forward and reveal all or else......

Sweaty bum time

[Nesta99]

I reckon the next move of John Delaney will be to announce an amnesty to players of all clubs in the LOI to come forward and reveal all or else......

Sweaty bum time

So all this is to put the frighteners on people prior to a more widespread clean up of LoI financial pratices?:eek:

Hmmmmmmm!

[Longfordian]

Doubtful. I reckon Derry were just the first ones to get caught once they stopped paying the wages there was always going to be trouble as it came out how much the players believed they were owed. I don't know how widespread it is really these days. A few years ago maybe but the Revenue have come down hard on a lot of clubs in recent years.

[thischarmingman]

Meeting between board and fans has been moved from social club to the City Hotel due to the size of numbers that have turned up.

[LeixlipRed]

Who'll pay for that now?

[OneRedArmy]

Who'll pay for that now?Dungannon?

[Mr_Parker]

"With their celebrity clown solicitor".....I think thats how Delaney described Derrys solicitor.


No I'm pretty sure it was "celebrity type". He wouldn't call him a clown on the news though he's probably thinking it.

He can expect a letter the "celebrity type" imo. Silly comment to make.

[thischarmingman]

As some wag on our forum posted, we're not entirely sure yet as to whether permission for the march from the club to the hotel has been sought from the PSNI and/or the parades commission. More fines, most likely :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

Irish Times gives most of the Delaney quotes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1109/1224258461144.html

[hughthedonkey]

was at 'meeting'. I, like others, away back from 'top table'. The meeting was organised to be held in the soon to be opened (hold yer breath) DCFC social club. No mic so that people at back could here. Like everything else mismanaged. Just came on home. Heard comments like 'We're here to hang a corpse'.

[Nedser]

Im not defending the DCFC board and only when the FAI show the same speed and tenacity dealing with the other cheats in the league will I afford them any credibility.

I suspect that until you put your bitterness aside and show some objectivity on this issue, few people will afford you any credibility.

All Bohs are possibly guilty of is failing to predict their turnover accurately enough. It doesn't even look like they're guilty of that now, but even if they were, it hardly compares to what Derry have done (deliberatley making illegal payments to players over a period of years and submitting fraudulent information to support their licencing applications).

[Mr_Parker]

If you missed it, go down to Audio & Video at the bottom of the report.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/1109/derrycity_delaneyj.html

[Sicuani]

Before the FAI finish this enquiry they should look at other teams finances.
Other teams may be making similar payments to their players and staff.
Has is come to the situation where the FAI are blinded and ignore other clubs.

Every club seems to have issues over the past season or so, from Derry to
Monaghan, Sligo to Dundalk..all clubs have been affected.

It seems that if that was another club the FAI would turn and look away.
At the end of the day if what Derry did is true then they deserve to go.

Not that i want Derry die,their support is fantastic and the League will miss it.
So what now?. Will the League look at other clubs?

[thischarmingman]

Before the FAI finish this enquiry they should look at other teams finances.
Other teams may be making similar payments to their players and staff.
Has is come to the situation where the FAI are blinded and ignore other clubs.

Every club seems to have issues over the past season or so, from Derry to
Monaghan, Sligo to Dundalk..all clubs have been affected.

It seems that if that was another club the FAI would turn and look away.
At the end of the day if what Derry did is true then they deserve to go.

Not that i want Derry die,their support is fantastic and the League will miss it.
So what now?. Will the League look at other clubs?

That doesn't even rhyme... :rolleyes:

[micls]

Every club seems to have issues over the past season or so, from Derry to
Monaghan, Sligo to Dundalk..all clubs have been affected.

In fairness, there's a big difference between 'issues' and blatant lyin deceit and cheating...


It seems that if that was another club the FAI would turn and look away.
?

Based on what? I would be shocked if the FAI were given proof of this by any club and ignored it.

I dont know why people seem to think the FAi would have anything against Derry

[thischarmingman]

Latest:


Meeting still going on - first speaker spoke for an hour and 20 minutes. I think it was Pat up next. He said something along the lines of the board being out of pocket to the tune of £300,000.

[Flexy]

before the fai finish this enquiry they should look at other teams finances.
Other teams may be making similar payments to their players and staff.
Has is come to the situation where the fai are blinded and ignore other clubs.

Every club seems to have issues over the past season or so, from derry to
monaghan, sligo to dundalk..all clubs have been affected.

It seems that if that was another club the fai would turn and look away.
At the end of the day if what derry did is true then they deserve to go.

Not that i want derry die,their support is fantastic and the league will miss it.
So what now?. Will the league look at other clubs?
the fai can stick their league between their eyes hope france hammer ireland on saturday and next wednesday and rub the smug off delaneys face

[thischarmingman]

Latest:


Costs a million a year to breakeven. Just back in there. Other point is,that due to the contract we signed we cannot sue the FAI.


Q. pat was there dual contracts?

A. I dont know....

(mightymccourt)

[micls]

Apparently McDaid was asked straight out if there were dual contracts and he answered 'I don't know' :confused:

[Longfordian]

Ah that's ridiculous, he just didn't want to incriminate himself I reckon.

[thischarmingman]

Ah that's ridiculous, he just didn't want to incriminate himself I reckon.

Then why have a meeting? The one sure-fire, 100%, absolutely banker, certain question that was going to be asked tonight...and that's the answer.

[micls]

Ah that's ridiculous, he just didn't want to incriminate himself I reckon.

But surely he knew when calling the meeting that that's the main question ffs. Surely he could have thought of something better.

[Longfordian]

I really don't know what he was thinking but it seems inconceivable that he as chairman wouldn't know if they were paying two different contracts or not surely he saw the accounts each year?. I agree that if that's the best he could do it does beg the question of why he bothered with the meeting?. Was there anything constructive to come out of it?

[thischarmingman]

Another view:


My interpretation is that the board think we can win the contract fight. On that basis we will be playing First Division football with a local, youthful squad on a vastly reduced expenditure. This will be as our current Wellvan incarnation and involve restructuring the club debt.

(Nike Air Jesus)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46699000/jpg/_46699482_meeting.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/8351121.stm

[thischarmingman]

Yes, Pat's original answer was "erm..I don't know", but he went on
for a while after.
My take on that answer was that his definition of a dual contract was different to theirs, and certainly not underhanded or mischievous.

He explained that the player was signed in the off season,
he was also the first player that Pat signed himself.
Accordingly, he put together an agreement on DCFC on letter-headed paper, and thought that was that. This was Jan 2008.
It was only when the FAI rang him to ask about it that he was aware
that a player has to sign the Standard Form Players Contract,
which nullifies all previous contracts (in accordance with
term's 27 and 28). This was signed 12 days later, Feb 2008. This is the gist of the problem.
If they had an issue with this, why are we only hearing about it now?
Granted, Pat may have ****ed up originally, but one thing that came out tonight was that he has put his life savings into this club,
somewhere in the region of 300k, and yes, he has made mistakes.
But we don't deserve to be thrown out of the league for the
contracts issue. Financially, maybe, but again tonight they laid out what they were doing, even up as far as last week to address our financial problems, in some sort of 3-5 year plan.
I actually feel sorry for the man, he was visibly upset at the beginning. When some of us throw our life savings into the club,
maybe then we can criticize them.
Other points- Pat doesn't want us in the Irish league, and is 100% sure we will have senior football in some guide next year.
(harridawg)

[dortie]

Apparently McDaid was asked straight out if there were dual contracts and he answered 'I don't know' :confused:

The FAI couldnt even produce the full copy of the contract (of the player in question) on demand during Saturdays meeting. Nor would they provide detail of the accusations ????? WTF !

The big crowd tonight were more hostile towards the FAI than i expected. Delaney is damanding Derry players come clean by Thursday, why would he bother if he already had all the evidence !!

[thischarmingman]

Further:


side from trying to run the club like a business, Pat also acknowledged in similar words, trying to run the club to please everyone.
Meaning, paying bigger wages than would be ideal, and trying to keep up with other clubs. Again, mistakes which have cost us dearly.
A fair point he made, when the team are winning the team and the manger are superstars, when they are not, it's the boards fault.
The FAI refused to give them an advance on their 4th place money the day before the Dundalk game. Pat acknowledged the players playing without wages, and pointed out the players commitments with kids and mortgages. This seemed to genuinely bother him.
Bear in mind, as he pointed out, when you read in the papers and news that DCFC did this, or DCFC did that, what they are really doing is pointing the finger at Pat himself and the 3 other board members.

And I've just remembered, that 300k figure RTE are bandying about
thats a hypothetical, what Delaney has done is said that
"if this arrangement with Quigley is with 19 other players, it would be 300k"
no definitives, no evidence, just allegations.
Even Pat confirmed that both the letterhead agreement,
and the standard form contract were identical.
He was firm about that.

(harridawg)

As others have long noted, regardless of the contract situation, the debt looks unpayable.

[Longfordian]

There seems to be wildly different views as to what's gone on. I can't believe that the FAI would throw Derry out and be saying what they're saying if they weren't sure they had enough evidence. They're not that stupid and they do seem prepared to bring whatever they have into court. Time will tell I guess.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Wow - do the fai have the power to do that to the players?
Well the players are registered with the FAI so they hold their registration. Transfers between LOI clubs have to be sanctioned by the FAI and transfers to clubs in different football associations require the FAI to release the registration.

[MariborKev]

Well the players are registered with the FAI so they hold their registration. Transfers between LOI clubs have to be sanctioned by the FAI and transfers to clubs in different football associations require the FAI to release the registration.

Whatever about the tax implications for the players as individuals, surely it would be restrain of trade to withhold their registrations?

Or are their sanctions within the SPC for this?

[brendy_éire]

A good point was made the meeting tonight.

Why weren't we brought up before the disciplinary committee instead of being brought before the FAI Board?

[MariborKev]

This is worth posting

-This mythical €337k figure is made up. It is an extrapolation.

-They took the difference in the two contracts for DQ, and applied the same % difference to every player. They then took the inflated figures, totalled them and multiplied it for a year.

Ah, the joys of super slo mo on Sky +. As stated, the actions of the FAI today in their free briefing on media and antics such as that detailed above don't paint them in a great light.

[Nedser]

This is worth posting

-This mythical €337k figure is made up. It is an extrapolation.

-They took the difference in the two contracts for DQ, and applied the same % difference to every player. They then took the inflated figures, totalled them and multiplied it for a year.

Ah, the joys of super slo mo on Sky +. As stated, the actions of the FAI today in their free briefing on media and antics such as that detailed above don't paint them in a great light.

I haven't seen the interview with Delaney, but based on the quotes I've read, it seemed obvious the 337k was an extrapolation. I don't think he tried to claim otherwise. He said something like "if I was to tot this up over 20 players it would be 337K" according to the reports I read. Context is everything too, so without seeing the interview in full it's difficult to know what he actually said.

In any case, that's not really important. It doesn't matter whether it's 50k or 350k, the main question is, is it true that a large number of players had dual contracts? If so, it really doesn't matter what the total sum of money involved was, as it would show that there was systematic and premeditated deception involved on the part of DCFC, in which case they haven't a leg to stand on.

If, however, McDaid's claim that it only applied to 1 player, and there is some sort of explanation for that, then clearly it's a completely different matter.

It's still very hard to imagine why Delaney would just make this stuff up though. Is McDaid trying to claim that Delaney and/or the FAI as a whole just decided to kill DCFC for no reason? Even though this brings the viability of the whole league into further question? Sure, the FAI are muppets, but still, it just doesn't make sense.

[Nedser]

I reckon Cregganite would get along well with the chap who wrote this letter to the Irish Times!

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224258476032

[sonofstan]

The entry of City into the LOI provided an alternative to the sterile political violence going on in Derry in the mid-1980s. Derry people were able to escape from the place and visit parts of Ireland (and indeed Europe) where many had never been before, and were able to forge friendships and contacts. In return, southerners and European supporters were welcome in the city of Derry and at the Brandywell.



when Derry first came into the League in 1985, senior football in the city provided a positive alternative to, and escape from, the sterile political violence then raging in the North. People were able to travel to the Republic, forming new friendships and contacts and visiting parts of Ireland many had previously never set foot in. In return, there was a warm and hearty welcome at the Brandywell for southerners.

You reckon?

[Nedser]

You reckon?

There seems to be a difference of opinion between the two of them about who was welcome at the Brandywell. Was it just Southerners, or Southerners and Europeans? :D

[DJP09]

The handling of this situation by the FAI is bemusing, they say that Derry, requested a meeting with them and then confessed to the use of dual contracts, Derry's reward for coming clean (Pat Mc Daid denied any dual contract confession bar the one case) was to be not demoted or lose points but expulsion. They now want the Derry Players past and present to come forward and place their careers at the mercy of the FAI punishment. As was said in MNS tonight even in cases of match fixing in Italy clubs were relegated not forced out of the league. It is also curious that Derry were not shown documents that were today made freely available to journalists. Is that fair or professional ?

One way or another I hope the full truth comes out because as a fan I abhor cheating no matter who it comes from and if it is Derry then they should come clean take their oil . Derry have serious financial issues to concentrate on.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Here comes the fudge.

Also Derry fans, remember we we'd have our meetings with Ollie and he'd tell us everything would be ok and the vast majority of Shels fans would believe him, then come on here and say so and you lot would laugh and say how naive they were and not to be taken in by his sob story? Well....

[Macy]

Didn't see Delaney's perfomance on six one, and would trust him about as far as i could throw him. However, the spin from Derry this morning on the radio is that the FAI don't have the evidence rather than it didn't happen.

I guess they (Derry) are at the "all in" stage - if they were operating dual contracts, it'll only take one other player to crack and they're screwed, but with added damage to goodwill for the club.

Or maybe it's the board that are going "all in" - a handy scapegoat in an FAI conspiracy to take focus off the rest of the financial side...

[Mr A]

In answer to the question posted in several places as to why the FAI are demanding that the players come clean if they already have evidence:

The players have been a party to the deception and cheating. I think the FAI are actually being pretty lenient by offering an amnesty if they come forward and admit the whole truth.

Plus obviously there is the considerable bonus that if they do all (or even some) come forward that Wellvan no longer have a leg to stand on.

[iceman]

From todays Sun

"There are 22 players that we've looked at. Take player 11 who we were told was earning €750 per week. On Wednesday, Derry told us they were paying that player €1050 net , if you gross that up it is €1312. The difference in what we were toild the player was earning and what the player was actually earning was €562 per week.

Here's player 4 , who on the standard player contract signed on Feb 11 2008 was earning €550. According to a contract signed Jan 25 2008 the player was earning £650Stg. Derry claim the standard player contract supercedes that but the players bank account shows the player was earning £2700Stg per month - as per the original contract.

If we tot up the 22 players that amounts to €337,000."

[Mr A]

If nothing else, it proves that Derry were paying completely mental wages.

[Steve Bruce]

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

[Mr A]

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

Exactamundo. Although of course you could argue that the FAI thing ends any chance of avoiding liquidation. If that chance had existed previously.

[Magicme]

Every club seems to have issues over the past season or so, from Derry to
Monaghan, Sligo to Dundalk..all clubs have been affected.



Please remove us from your comment as we have not had any issues, financial or otherwise to deal with in the past few seasons.

Careful what you say sicuani, this may be an internet forum where you can spout rubbish, but be aware that you cannot make up lies and expect to get away with it.

[OneRedArmy]

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.I agree.

But this begs the question as to why the FAI decided to go all out on us, when the passage of a very short amount of time (probably a fortnight), we would've hung ourselves anyway (debt, 65% shareholding, Dungannon, Linfield gate money, players wages........).

It was like stamping on the toes of someone clinging to a window ledge whose grip was slipping anyway.

One argument could be made is that the FAI are doing this in order to actually increase the chance that we'll have a team next season by forcing regime change and with it our chances of getting a license.

But thats almost the equivalent of using a nuclear bomb to quell a riot.

[EalingGreen]

I personally think Derrys big problem isn't the FAI, because I'm quite sure that the FAI will accept them again for next season in the 1st divison (the division below the top division in case it's called something else). I think the big problem is the debt. liquidation looks more of a threat than anything else, from where I sit.

Not "throwing good money after bad" may explain why the FAI are withholding DCFC's Prize money i.e. they don't want to hand over €80k to Wellvan, so that in a couple of months time Wellvan collapses with debts of, say, €420k, rather than €500k.

Indeed, if Delaney is taking a pragmatic view, it may explain why the FAI is acting just now i.e. any earlier would have screwed up the 2009 Season, any later risks dragging it all into the 2010 season.

Meanwhile, intervening now allows DCFC the maximum time to clear up the existing mess and put something in its place for next season.

[EalingGreen]

I agree.

But this begs the question as to why the FAI decided to go all out on us, when the passage of a very short amount of time (probably a fortnight), we would've hung ourselves anyway (debt, 65% shareholding, Dungannon, Linfield gate money, players wages........).

It was like stamping on the toes of someone clinging to a window ledge whose grip was slipping anyway.

One argument could be made is that the FAI are doing this in order to actually increase the chance that we'll have a team next season by forcing regime change and with it our chances of getting a license.

But thats almost the equivalent of using a nuclear bomb to quell a riot.See my previous post as to the FAI's timing. At best, if they hadn't acted now, they'd have had no excuse for not handing over DCFC's Prize money.

At worst, by appeals and part=payments etc, Wellvan might have clung on until after the start of next season and closing down a club at that stage is a hell of a sight messier than doing so now.

[OneRedArmy]

See my previous post as to the FAI's timing. At best, if they hadn't acted now, they'd have had no excuse for not handing over DCFC's Prize money.

At worst, by appeals and part=payments etc, Wellvan might have clung on until after the start of next season and closing down a club at that stage is a hell of a sight messier than doing so now.Still, its a hell of a big fight to pick for expediency's sake.