The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[Krstic]

I reckon Derry will be back competing with Rovers for the premier division title within 3 years and will probably be one of the financially soundest clubs by then, with a complete clean start, come the start of next seaon Id imagine the club will have a huge amount of goodwill just like Rovers got this year and all the negatives are likely to be quickly forgotten.

Is it fair though?

[Dillonman]

Don't get me wrong, having Derry 3 games next season will be great but, if there is no points deduction then what's to stop the likes of Athlone, Longford, Cobh and Harps going into liquidation, cleaning the slate and re-entering into the 1st Division under the same name? Sure we could all benefit from that.

All for Derry coming back, it's of great benefit to Harps gate receipts BUT proper order would be entry into the A league.

I might be wrong but did Cobh not go into administration last year?!

[Acornvilla]

i'm sure if longford did it wed loose the stadium? i have no idea just makes sence to me in my own world :D

[Mr_Parker]

This was posted elsewhere...


so, let me get this straight,
for financially screwing over:
1) at least 3 other football clubs,
2) god knows how many businesses,
3) their own players and staff,
4) possibly the govt, thru tax or rate bills that may yet be outstanding
5) not to mention the deception attempts against the fai and the gaining of a licence using false information, ensuring loi premier league football for themselves, probably at some other loi team's expense

and in exchange derry city could be "rewarded" with:
1) a debt free immediate future?
2) a drop of a single division?
3) continuation of the derry city name?
4) continued use of a "no longer applicable" dispensation to play in a foreign league?

that would be what i would call "a scam".

[Mr_Parker]

It will be interesting to see if the permission Derry City had from the IFA to play in the LOI is as easily transferred from one party to another especially with monies outstanding to at least 3 Irish League clubs.

[Acornvilla]

It will be interesting to see if the permission Derry City had from the IFA to play in the LOI is as easily transferred from one party to another especially with monies outstanding to at least 3 Irish League clubs.
has it not been repeatidley stated before that derry no longer need th IFAs permission on that matter?

[marty]

Issues were different in Cobh but in fairness I dont think we were guilty of some of the mentioned above..Ah well

[Dillonman]

So has anything actually been officially confirmed that Derry City will operate under the same name and in the first division next season?

[Mr_Parker]

has it not been repeatidley stated before that derry no longer need th IFAs permission on that matter?

Why do Derry have to retain their membership of the IFA?

[Krstic]

Why do Derry have to retain their membership of the IFA?


Do we?

[Candystripe]

If we are playing in the first division next season our travelling will be drastically cut with games against Harps,longford ,Athlone,two galway teams,Shels again and the best of all, a great trip to Mongahan where they have/had the best looking bar staff in Ireland and only an hour away from home. :)

Always look on the bright side of life.

[Dillonman]

If we are playing in the first division next season our travelling will be drastically cut with games against Harps,longford ,Athlone,two galway teams,Shels again and the best of all, a great trip to Mongahan where they have/had the best looking bar staff in Ireland and only an hour away from home. :)

Always look on the bright side of life.

under age bar staff!:p

[tiktok]

I have no wish to lose Derry at all, but that's one disgusting fudge.
If the FAI have promised the new entity first division football next season, they're clearly breaking their own rules.

[Candystripe]

Fudge is right tictok,but seems that quite a few fudges are happening.

I'm guessing that the "new Derry city" (small c ©ORA ) would just not have bothered entering if it were to have been in the A league so therefore this is probably the best option for all L.O.I. fans especially ourself's.

[Mr A]

This stinks to be perfectly honest. I do want to see Derry back up and running, but I'm sure a hell of a lot of clubs would gladly trade a clean slate and a demotion for debts wiped out and a fresh start.

At this moment in time, it reads like a cheaters charter. Cobh were guilty of far less reprehensible activities yet received no real help from the FAI.

[CSFShels]

Yeah this is seriously wrong. It had to be the A League.

[SkStu]

i think this is disgraceful given all that has transpired over the last week. I have no objection to Derry in the First Div per se but to have your slate wiped clean and then not even have a points deduction is laughable.

This stinks.

[OneRedArmy]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone :cool:

[fionnsci]

What makes Derry City II more entitled to a FD place than Tralee, Castlebar etc.?

[higgins]

Looks like I jumped in too soon to say well done to the FAI ...
Should have known full well what they were playing at.

[stickyjoe]

Good man Delaney, keep making up the rules as you go along, is there any credibility or decency at all left in the league among the clubs and the people running it?

Delaney calls today a "good day" - a good day? Hes talking about Derry walking away from all their debts, monies owed to players, other companies/people, fellow clubs in the North and he calls it a good day. Its a bloody scandalous day, Derry have their debts cleared & drop a division with seemingly no points deduction yet he calls it a good day.

By the way, where is McGuinness and the PFAI in all this defending their members and seeking out their owed wages? Hardly a peep out of them, hiding behind Delaney and their buddies in the FAI as usual.

[holidaysong]

i think this is disgraceful given all that has transpired over the last week. I have no objection to Derry in the First Div per se but to have your slate wiped clean and then not even have a points deduction is laughable.

This stinks.

BBC Radio Foyle reported that the new club could possibly start next season on -40 points.

[OneRedArmy]

By the way, where is McGuinness and the PFAI in all this defending their members and seeking out their owed wages? Hardly a peep out of them, hiding behind Delaney and their buddies in the FAI as usual.I'd imagine the PFAI feel they've come out ahead, what with getting away with the blank contracts etc.

[Réiteoir]

BBC Radio Foyle reported that the new club could possibly start next season on -40 points.

But even then they'd have to only win a playoff against one of the A-Championship non-reserve sides to stay in the division, and we've not factored in the fact that such a non-reserve club may not finish in the A-Championship qualification spots.

Anyway - this is all speculation and such at the moment - let's just wait for the final edict to be handed up from upon't high by our beneficial insect overlords at the FAI

[stickyjoe]

I'd imagine the PFAI feel they've come out ahead, what with getting away with the blank contracts etc.

Edited

[Dillonman]

BBC Radio Foyle reported that the new club could possibly start next season on -40 points.

Maybe thats why on errortel its said that preferably a new compant take over and apply for a first division licence!

[passerrby]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone :cool:

two small boulders and a packet of gravel please. should be a good stoning local lad i think

[GalwayRed]

If Derry are allowed back into the league with a clean slate and considered to be a new club then it should be as an A championship side. I dont see the point of an A championship if new clubs can bypass it into the first.

[Buile Shuibhne]

By the way, where is McGuinness and the PFAI in all this defending their members and seeking out their owed wages? Hardly a peep out of them, hiding behind Delaney and their buddies in the FAI as usual.


Well as I've said many times before - they share the same offices and are indistinguishable to all intents and purposes.

At least SIPTU don't get freebie/rent office space in IBEC

[Steve Bruce]

Well at least now DCFC know that they can run up big debts and all they have to do is form a new LTD company transfer the DCFC name and start in Division one again.

Looks like boom or bust isn't necessarily the worst idea now because you go bust you have a chance to rise from the ashes again.

[OneRedArmy]

Looks like boom or bust isn't necessarily the worst idea now because you go bust you have a chance to rise from the ashes again.As company law has permitted for over a century....

Oh, and I hope the irony of Shels fans complaining isn't lost on many. Lets not forget, if the same rules were applied you would have one title less against your name.

[VinnyDCFC]

BBC Radio Foyle reported that the new club could possibly start next season on -40 points.

Did they? (ie: Radio Foyle)

Or did you read that from one of these 'Derry fans' that run on here screaming before they hear/ read the end of a sentence on DC Chat?

There are many on foot.ie that are guilty of this :)

[Hairy Bowsie]

Oh, and I hope the irony of Shels fans complaining isn't lost on many. Lets not forget, if the same rules were applied you would have one title less against your name.

We see the irony alright but we're still too busy laughing to really appreicate it :)

[brendy_éire]

If Derry are allowed back into the league with a clean slate and considered to be a new club then it should be as an A championship side. I dont see the point of an A championship if new clubs can bypass it into the first.

Neither, I think, do a lot of clubs. It seems to me that we're getting into the First Division because there will be no A Championship next year.

[GalwayRed]

Neither, I think, do a lot of clubs. It seems to me that we're getting into the First Division because there will be no A Championship next year.
If thats the case then fair enough. But if it isn't and there will be an A Championship then Derry shouldn't be allowed straight into the first.

[Dodge]

We see the irony alright but we're still too busy laughing to really appreicate it :)

Must be fun in the lower league?

[brendy_éire]

But if it isn't and there will be an A Championship then Derry shouldn't be allowed straight into the first.

If we jump the A Championship it'll be a joke.

[-lamb-]

What makes Derry City II more entitled to a FD place than Tralee, Castlebar etc.?
derry city III don't you mean?

has it not been repeatidley stated before that derry no longer need th IFAs permission on that matter?
who has repeatedly stated this, and which version of derry city (I II or III) were they talking about?
if derry city right at this moment in time are no longer IN the loi (are they even under fai rules right now i wonder, having been expelled from the league they asked permission to play in and therefore possibly not under fai league rules any longer), then where is it stated that they don't need to ask again to play in a different jurisdiction?
as it stands they don't play in any fai league, but they do still remain an ifa club (afaik still under ifa member rules).
i'd say it could be very open to debate whether they can waltz back into the fai league structure again if anyone ever challenged it. if they did need to justify their special permission they could find it a lot more difficult this time as the original reason doesn't exist any longer.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Must be fun in the lower league?

Not really. Of course you knew that and knew that i wasn't making a joke of that but decided to turn it around, good move Dodge. You're wasted on here man, with brains and humour like that, you could do so much better.

What is funny though is the fact that when we were in the ****s, every Derry fan on here, turned into bloody rain man. Seemed like the majority of the crowd in the Brandywell was a certified accountant. Totting up the figures of Shels debt for fun and then dancing on what they thought was our grave. So to see Derry in a situation such as this, makes me laugh. I didn't and wouldn't wish it on them but now that it's happened, they're still banging on about Shels and what we did and didn't do. If they spent as much time worrying about their own club as they did Shels, they may not be in this mess. I think i'm allowed a little chuckle :)

[EalingGreen]

It will be interesting to see if the permission Derry City had from the IFA to play in the LOI is as easily transferred from one party to another especially with monies outstanding to at least 3 Irish League clubs.

I don't think that is quite correct, Mr. P.

My understanding is as follows. Any professional club has to be a Member of the Association within whose boundaries it is situated. For DCFC this is the IFA, just as eg Cardiff City are Members of the FAW.

That is why DCFC, in all its guises, have remained Members of the IFA. However as we know, whilst it is ordinarily the case, a club does not have to play in a League operated by its "home" Association, exceptions may be made.

Afaik, in disputed cases, UEFA is the final arbiter, so that a National Association either (a) cannot object to a UEFA decision for a club to play in another jurisdiction at all, or (b) cannot object unless it has reasonable cause so to do.

Either way, the IFA was unable to prevent DCFC from entering the LOI in 1985, since for security reasons etc it was neither safe for DCFC to stage IL games at the Brandywell, nor was it reasonable to expect them to play their "home" IL games away from Derry.

Anyhow, we must assume that DCFC either renewed its 1985 UEFA dispensation to play in the LOI each time it subsequently changed ownership etc, or no-one thought to ask.

That said, things may conceivably be different this time for the new Derry city. That is because in principle, there is no longer any good reason why new Derry city may not participate in the IL, what with the end of the Troubles etc, as eg their Setanta games vs Linfield & Glentoran demonstrate.

Therefore, if the IFA is of a mind to, I suspect it could either draw the new teams intention to apply to the LOI to the attention of UEFA for an adjudication, or possibly even prevent it altogether, since unlike 1985, any objection might not be considered unreasonable.

Of course, the phrase "of a mind to" is key. For on the one hand, clubs like Swifts, Linfield and Cliftonville might want to get their own back on DCFC and get the IFA to try to block their re-entry to the LOI. But on the other, they might be so disgusted with them, and/or mindful of the opposition for trophies they might pose etc, that they don't want them anywhere near the IL.

P.S. Can anyone advise me how I may copyright the name "I Can't Believe It's Not Derry City FC"? It might come in useful, some day...

P.P.S If Denver is the "Mile High City", does that mean Derry is the "Wile Hi City"?

Late Edit: Just noticed Lamb's post #1592

[HarpoJoyce]

My understanding too is that UEFA wants Derry to be member of the IFA so that major actions that are taken, like playing in another jurisdiction, will be done with the knowledge of the local FA.

I believe the IFA should use all it's influence to protect the interests of it's other member clubs.

[SwanVsDalton]

Here's some muddled thoughts on today's proceedings:

- The FAI have very obviously and irrefutably fast tracked us into the first division. I think it's wrong, but won't be sending any e-mails to our esteemed - and may I say that suit is extremely sharp Mr.Delaney, have you had a hair cut? etc - association.

- In terms of monies owed, I hope (and think) efforts will be made to pay off Dungannon and Linfield. As has been noted our respect and credibility is in tatters (it's like someone's stolen the stirrups from our high horse), and faithful efforts should be made to regain it. We may not legally owe anything (once liquidated) but 'football law' is different and I'd imagine life could be made very difficult for the new entity if we don't at least make some effort to repay certain clubs/creditors.

- I think the name will have to bought from the liquidator, don't know how much it would cost but if we couldn't get it it has the potential to be a huge issue IMO, especially in terms of jurisdiction.

[SwanVsDalton]

My understanding too is that UEFA wants Derry to be member of the IFA so that major actions that are taken, like playing in another jurisdiction, will be done with the knowledge of the local FA.

I believe the IFA should use all it's influence to protect the interests of it's other member clubs.

See my above post: I think anyone suggesting City can just walk away from money owed to other clubs are crazy. Obviously life can be made very difficult for City, and the FAI I'd imagine, by the IFA if no effort is made to repay.

[tiktok]

As company law has permitted for over a century.....

It's precisely because company law allows it that licencing was set up for God's sake.
The only way this could make any sense is if next season the first division was the lowest entry point for a club i.e. the A championship is being abolished.
Otherwise the FAI are clearly disregarding their own rules, it's a huge fudge.

[Magicme]

the best of all, a great trip to Mongahan where they have/had the best looking bar staff in Ireland and only an hour away from home. :)

Always look on the bright side of life.

Hate to break it to ya but its men who are working in the bar at the moment. I might be required to step behind and help out when there are mad bunch of Derry hoors about but I wont qualify under your criteria either! Sorry but sure we will have a wile browse of drink and if someone ends up in a shugh, we will grab them by the shin and wool them out.

[LukeO]

And this isnt a fudge???

Derry are over their heads in debt. What to do? Get the board to resign, go into administration, say sorry to their staff and other creditors and restart all shiney and new in the First Division.
Now what about the punishment for cheating. The players seem to be the only ones punished.
All Derry get is LOI football avoiding the A league and a clean bill of health.

Fudge?? What fudge??

You seem shocked? :confused: We've been through this all before with Shamrock Rovers and last season, with Cork City and Drogheda.

Going into examinership/administration lets clubs off the hook big time. I'm not trying to have a go by the way - I think Rovers' board have done a fantastic job so far and they should be applauded for that while the soundings from Drogheda this season seem positive too... the less said about Cork the better.

But examinership/administration is a very easy way out as it allows clubs to walk away from debts and responsibilities. The excesses at Bohs are known to everyone, but the difference is that because we have an asset in Dalymount, we don't have the luxury of just walking away from our responsibilities like the clubs above did. Every single penny we owe will have to be paid back.

Examinership/administration would seem to encourage recklessness. As someone else said in this thread, there's nothing to stop any club (who don't have a decent asset) from running up millions of debt while winning trophies, going bust and starting again with little or no punishment from the league. The only reason Derry have received such a severe punishment this time is because of the contracts issue. All Cork City and Drogheda got when they went down the examinership route was a miserly points deduction which, when you consider both clubs won a decent amount of silverware in the preceding years, to some it might seem a reasonable price to pay. It's a screwed up system IMO.

[Buile Shuibhne]

You seem shocked? :confused: We've been through this all before with Shamrock Rovers and last season, with Cork City and Drogheda.

Going into examinership/administration lets clubs off the hook big time. I'm not trying to have a go by the way - I think Rovers' board have done a fantastic job so far and they should be applauded for that while the soundings from Drogheda this season seem positive too... the less said about Cork the better.

But examinership/administration is a very easy way out as it allows clubs to walk away from debts and responsibilities. The excesses at Bohs are known to everyone, but the difference is that because we have an asset in Dalymount, we don't have the luxury of just walking away from our responsibilities like the clubs above did. Every single penny we owe will have to be paid back.

Examinership/administration would seem to encourage recklessness. As someone else said in this thread, there's nothing to stop any club (who don't have a decent asset) from running up millions of debt while winning trophies, going bust and starting again with little or no punishment from the league. The only reason Derry have received such a severe punishment this time is because of the contracts issue. All Cork City and Drogheda got when they went down the examinership route was a miserly points deduction which, when you consider both clubs won a decent amount of silverware in the preceding years, to some it might seem a reasonable price to pay. It's a screwed up system IMO.



Meanwhile Shels are still striving to pay off the debts that led to their downfall.




Oh, and I hope the irony of Shels fans complaining isn't lost on many. Lets not forget, if the same rules were applied you would have one title less against your name.


see above

[belfastred]

This is a disgraceful outcome

I hope the IFA do everything in their power to get back the money owed to the three Irish League Clubs

If this means attempting to block the special dispensation of the latest incarnation of Derry then so be it.

[OneRedArmy]

That said, things may conceivably be different this time for the new Derry city. That is because in principle, there is no longer any good reason why new Derry city may not participate in the IL, what with the end of the Troubles etc, as eg their Setanta games vs Linfield & Glentoran demonstrate.Whilst a police escort, sectarian chanting, flag burning and buses being stoned aren't exactly rare elsewhere in European football, they do help build a case that it isn't exactly a conducive fit.

Also don't ignore the 25 years experience we have built up in the EL. This is also significant.

I agree however that it is absolutely not a slam dunk, and a combination of Derry's despicable behaviour to its creditors (IL and otherwise) and the lack of goodwill between IFA and FAI after the Gibson case won't help our case.

[Mr_Parker]

Afaik, in disputed cases, UEFA is the final arbiter, so that a National Association either (a) cannot object to a UEFA decision for a club to play in another jurisdiction at all, or (b) cannot object unless it has reasonable cause so to do.

Either way, the IFA was unable to prevent DCFC from entering the LOI in 1985, since for security reasons etc it was neither safe for DCFC to stage IL games at the Brandywell, nor was it reasonable to expect them to play their "home" IL games away from Derry.



I don't recall that the IFA disputed or wanted to prevent Derry being able to play in the LOI but stated they would have no objections at that time so I don't think Uefa had to rule on it as such.


And here is a wee nugget fromthe IFA Articles of Association by which Derry City are bound...

Article 3

12.
(a) A member may not seek directly or indirectly to transfer its Membership of the Association