The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[passerrby]

A lot of inaccurate reporting around the licensing implications of not paying wages. It's not a cut and dried end of month deadline if the players agree. End of January is the real deadline.

And if you aren't sorted at that point, you should get neither Premier or D1 License.

Quote from licensing:

but i think there is a wide range of sanctions available to licensing which is in effect a getout clause to go easy on some clubs

[Mr A]

True, but I thought 'A' requirements were fairly absolute. Or as absolute as these things get. Which isn't very absolute at all come to think of it.

[pineapple stu]

I think not meeting A criteria means you definitely may not get a licence for next year. "May" is the word I remember having problems with when I read it.

[MariborKev]

Really is depressing and sad to see derry in diffs again.

As a Derry fan I'm just fed up of the pied piper attitude of the board.

[thischarmingman]

Derry Journal: Derry City on verge of collapse (http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Derry-City-on-verge-of.5761281.jp)


Derry City Football Club is on the verge of total collapse, the 'Journal' can reveal exclusively.
The 'Journal' has learned that, at a meeting with the club's Board of Directors on Wednesday night, ALL players were offered free transfers.
Both players and staff were also informed that, unless a meeting with the FAI in Dublin today bears fruit, NO wages will be paid for the foreseeable future


I don't think I've ever been less enthusiastic heading to a Derry game.

[dcfcsteve]

It does beg the question of their compliance with the 65% rule though.

True.

However - the club could make an arguement that they set a prudent budget (assuming their words, not mine) at the start of the season, and that the unforeseen withdrawal of 2 key sponsors has pushed them the wrong side of the 65%.

I'm not standing-up for our board here - they have a hell of a lot of questions to answer. But should unforeseen third-party circumstances lead to a license being withdrawn ? :confused: We'ere in unchartered territory here....

[MariborKev]

I'm not standing-up for our board here - they have a hell of a lot of questions to answer. But should unforeseen third-party circumstances lead to a license being withdrawn ? :confused: We'ere in unchartered territory here....

Steve, catch yourself on.

The sponsorship thing is a smokescreen.

[Sam_Heggy]

Scary stuff, alot of clubs are finding it tough but Derry's situation is either worse (obviously on a par with CCFC) or the other clubs a hiding it better.
The fact that it has gone so public with players, management and fans alike speaking out on the matter, you really have to worry.
Fingers crossed this can be turned around or at least the club saved.

It's times like this you would wish our wonderful FAI would run a friendly international and split the proceeds between the League clubs. (I know Junior clubs would kick up but just a random thought)

[soccerc]

True.

However - the club could make an arguement that they set a prudent budget (assuming their words, not mine) at the start of the season, and that the unforeseen withdrawal of 2 key sponsors has pushed them the wrong side of the 65%.

Pfft, The lost sponsorship was just a trifling sum in the overall scheme of things and as Maribor said, s smokescreen.

The problems were there long before Meteor went to the wall

[fbtn]

A lot of inaccurate reporting around the licensing implications of not paying wages. It's not a cut and dried end of month deadline if the players agree. End of January is the real deadline.

And if you aren't sorted at that point, you should get neither Premier or D1 License.

Quote from licensing:

Obviously the players aren't going to agree though....

Anything from the PFAI yet?

They've been awfully quiet since they moved residence.

[brianw82]

Obviously the players aren't going to agree though....

Anything from the PFAI yet?

They've been awfully quiet since they moved residence.

Maybe they haven't got their phones connected yet?

[Mr A]

Obviously the players aren't going to agree though....

Anything from the PFAI yet?

They've been awfully quiet since they moved residence.

Wouldn't be too sure of that. If they don't agree and the club is refused a license it'll most likely go under and the players will never get a penny.

[tallaghthoop]

Really is depressing and sad to see derry in diffs again.

As a League Of Ireland fan i feel the same, its just one thing after another at the moment.

[Flexy]

As a Derry fan I'm just fed up of the pied piper attitude of the board.

GET THE BOARD OUT THEY ARE USELESS AND HAVENT A CLUE how to run a business and know NOTHING ABOUT football.

[Flexy]

True.

However - the club could make an arguement that they set a prudent budget (assuming their words, not mine) at the start of the season, and that the unforeseen withdrawal of 2 key sponsors has pushed them the wrong side of the 65%.

I'm not standing-up for our board here - they have a hell of a lot of questions to answer. But should unforeseen third-party circumstances lead to a license being withdrawn ? :confused: We'ere in unchartered territory here....
Steve the guys who are on the board are meant to be business men who are respected in the city or were respected, but they had no plan B if things went pear shaped, we as the fans are fed up bailing the club out of the messes it gets itself in year in year out. WELL NO MORE I have had enough like most fans on the way the club has been run. Ive always come on here and backed the club to the hilt week in week out. You shouldnt budget for things when you dont actually have it, the players and management are well over paid compared to other clubs, ( aberdeen had a budget at the start of the seaon of wages for £3k per week, and lost 4 players and they get crowds of 10k plus every 2nd week ) if they cant manage their is no hope.

The fans also to blame there was 3k over in paris how many of them still go every 2nd week, in our debut years in the league of ireland you couldnt get into a dcfc game home or away, were have all these glory hunters gone, watching trash at anfield and old trafford and celtic park every other week. Im having a rant as a fan on how the loyal supporters of the club i love has been let down year after year, and look at us now an absolute laughing stock. Finally well done to the guys tonite great result, and for the like of Morrow, Stewart and co who seemingly have got injuries while all these problems have been going on then they can get lost and see if you can make a better living elsewhere, especially Morrow who has been injured more times than hes actually played and still grabs his pay packet every month. Rant over sorry

[brianw82]

Steve the guys who are on the board are meant to be business men who are respected in the city or were respected, but they had no plan B if things went pear shaped, we as the fans are fed up bailing the club out of the messes it gets itself in year in year out. WELL NO MORE I have had enough like most fans on the way the club has been run. Ive always come on here and backed the club to the hilt week in week out. You shouldnt budget for things when you dont actually have it, the players and management are well over paid compared to other clubs, ( aberdeen had a budget at the start of the seaon of wages for £3k per week, and lost 4 players and they get crowds of 10k plus every 2nd week ) if they cant manage their is no hope. The fans also to blame there was 3k over in paris how many of them still go every 2nd week, in our debut years in the league of ireland you couldnt get into a dcfc game home or away, were have all these glory hunters gone, watching trash at anfield and old trafford and celtic park every other week. Im having a rant as a fan on how the loyal supporters of the club i love has been let down year after year, and look at us now an absolute laughing stock. Finally well done to the guys tonite great result, and for the like of Morrow, Stewart and co who seemingly have got injuries while all these problems have been going on then they can get lost and see if you can make a better living elsewhere, especially Morrow who has been injured more times than hes actually played and still grabs his pay packet every month. Rant over sorry

Now that is a good rant. I salute you, sir. :)

[MariborKev]

It's times like this you would wish our wonderful FAI would run a friendly international and split the proceeds between the League clubs. (I know Junior clubs would kick up but just a random thought)

Why? Just prolong administrations like the one at Derry. There should be no bail out by the FAI.

[Kildareman]

Why? Just prolong administrations like the one at Derry. There should be no bail out by the FAI.

But there will. Really does anyone expect Cork, Bohs or Derry to be anywhere other than the Premier Division??????
The league needs teams like these and the FAI will see they remain and not be relegated outside of league position.

Cobh, Dublin City, Kilkenny are substainable losses as are most of the clubs. Ourselves and the likes of UCD Monaghan etc will never get same treatment.

[SMorgan]

There can be little doubt the the FAI will do sweet FA in relation to the Drogheda, Bohs, Cork or Derry? They'll look for a reason to do nothing and they'll grab it.

If you want any evidence of this just look at the fact that they granted Drogheda United a Premier Licence at the start of this season. To do this, they used the fact that An Bord Pleanála were considering an appeal against a stadium development that was dead and everybody knew it. All Drogheda have to do to get a Licence next season is dream up another c@ck-n-bull, pie-in-the-sky stadium proposal for the FAI to use.

[Celdrog]

If you want any evidence of this just look at the fact that they granted Drogheda United a Premier Licence at the start of this season. To do this, they used the fact that An Bord Pleanála were considering an appeal against a stadium development that was dead and everybody knew it. All Drogheda have to do to get a Licence next season is dream up another c@ck-n-bull, pie-in-the-sky stadium proposal for the FAI to use.We got a licence on the basis that the FAI were upgrading United Park, nothing to do with the NRA or Bord Pleanala. The fact they chose to use the money to bail out Cork is something for them to answer, not us.

For what its worth - go and read the licensing manual and you will see where Oriel park does not meet all the criteria for a premier licence. For starters, just read the sections about the requirements for visiting fans. No loose shale underfoot, hot and cold food available, exit gates to remain unlocked.......

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100381&Itemid=321

[Mr A]

Good man Sid - you should be more concerned about the FAI will do to your club when it comes out that one of players backed himself to be sent off in a match that he started but did not finish.

We got a licence on the basis that the FAI were upgrading United Park, nothing to do with the NRA or Bord Pleanala. The fact they chose to use the money to bail out Cork is something for them to answer, not us.

For what its worth - go and read the licensing manual and you will see where Oriel park does not meet all the criteria for a premier licence. For starters, just read the sections about the requirements for visiting fans. No loose shale underfoot, hot and cold food available, exit gates to remain unlocked.......

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100381&Itemid=321

Not according to Padraig Smith:


Q12 – Karl Phillips: How did Drogheda F.C. receive a premier licence this year when:

Q12 (b) – United Park does not meet the F.A.I. criteria for premier ground regulations , e.g. 1,000 covered seats, toilet facilities.

Under Criterion INF 1.27 of the club licensing manual, a Premier Division stadium must be equipped with a minimum of 1,500 individual seats, or there must be provision in the Club Infrastructure Development Plan (CIDP) to meet this criterion within an agreed timeframe.

United Park does not have 1,500 seats, but Drogheda United’s CIDP includes the construction of a new stadium, which would meet this criterion. The new stadium is currently under appeal to An Bord Pleanala and no final decision on the project has been made. Therefore, the club is allowed to continue playing at United Park while the stadium project is ongoing.

[Celdrog]

He also said this, in the same interview

Q16 – pineapple stu: Why did the FAI note they could [not] assist Cobh financially to get a licence, but then said they were obliged to help Drogheda to get a licence, spending money to improve the ground? The fact that the FAI own United Park doesn’t oblige them to improve it.

The Board of the FAI decided not to approve the purchase of St Coleman’s Park from Cobh Ramblers however that had no bearing on the decision of the independent Licensing Committee. Cobh Ramblers were refused a Premier Division and First Division license because they failed to submit any financial documentation whatsoever. It is that simple. All other clubs submitted the necessary documentation, as required under the process.

We have an obligation, as owners and landlords of United Park, to ensure it meets the standards laid down for stadia in this country.

Mind you he also said

Q12 (c) – Did the F.A.I. assist Drogheda F.C. by providing money to pay players and/or staff wages???

No. The FAI has not and will not provide financial assistance to clubs to fund their operational costs. Paying wages is an operational cost and I can confirm that we did not provide money to Drogheda United to cover any player or staff wages. Paying the taxman obviously doesn't count as operational

[John83]

Paying the taxman obviously doesn't count as operational
I presume you're referring to Cork? Did they get there money back from the friendly in the end? I seem to recall it was poorly supported.

[Celdrog]

I presume you're referring to Cork? Did they get there money back from the friendly in the end? I seem to recall it was poorly supported.I don't think the FAI have ever admitted to paying the taxman (they can't really) but it seems to be an accepted fact. There is no way that friendly made €200k anyway.
Would they go and pay HM Revenue on behalf of Derry?
That would be some laugh.

[micls]

I don't think the FAI have ever admitted to paying the taxman (they can't really) but it seems to be an accepted fact..

Not really. Its one of a couple of rumours, but one that some people prefer to believe.

[SMorgan]

We got a licence on the basis that the FAI were upgrading United Park, nothing to do with the NRA or Bord Pleanala. The fact they chose to use the money to bail out Cork is something for them to answer, not us.



Absolutely BS. Get your facts right before making-up a response in future!!



Q12(b) to FAI’s Internal Compliance Officer for 2009 Padraig Smith


Q12 (b) – United Park does not meet the F.A.I. criteria for premier ground regulations , e.g. 1,000 covered seats, toilet facilities.
Under Criterion INF 1.27 of the club licensing manual, a Premier Division stadium must be equipped with a minimum of 1,500 individual seats, or there must be provision in the Club Infrastructure Development Plan (CIDP) to meet this criterion within an agreed timeframe.
United Park does not have 1,500 seats, but Drogheda United’s CIDP includes the construction of a new stadium, which would meet this criterion. The new stadium is currently under appeal to An Bord Pleanala and no final decision on the project has been made. Therefore, the club is allowed to continue playing at United Park while the stadium project is ongoing.



That's a disgraceful position for the FAI to take and I think you're going to see similar fudge in relation to other clubs that the FAI don't want punished.

[dcfcsteve]

Steve, catch yourself on.

The sponsorship thing is a smokescreen.

Kev - as I clearly stated I was assuming their words above, not mine.

I'm sure the club will make that argument, and as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a club who can argue the withdrawal of 2 sponsors mid-season to argue that missing 65% was unforeseen. That doesn't mean that I agree with that arguement - I'm second-guessing the club's defence, and as believed by many on here,. the FAI may be looking for an excuse to give a license to the likes of Derry. Et voila.

Again - I'm second guessing their defence here, so don't jump down my throat.

[awec]

I see on Irish league forums theres a thread regarding you joining the Irish League.

Curious as to what Derry City fans views on this would be? Would you be happy to do it if it meant you continued to exist?

[Graemerz]

Former Derry City striker Liam Coyle believes the club should return to the Irish League in a bid to resolve its financial crisis.

There are fears that City, who left the Irish League in 1972, could drop out of the League of Ireland Premier Division because of the current problems.

"Moving to the Irish League is the only way forward for Derry City if they want to survive," said Coyle.

"They have to look at it as a way of maintaining their senior status."

He added: "If the Irish League was to take them back in it would mean less travelling.

"It makes sense to go back and play in the country they are in.

"There seems to be a bit of a stand-off between the board and players and at the minute it is a really divisive club."

Glentoran director Stafford Reynolds and Glenavon chairman Adrian Teer have both said they would welcome Derry back to the Irish League.

Linfield manager David Jeffrey is also in favour of Derry returning but he believes the Candystripes have only themselves to blame for the current situation.

"I don't hold a lot of sympathy - you have to cut you cloth accordingly," he said.

"I am sick, sore and tired of people saying about the money we get from the Irish FA.

"We have a very strict wage structure and we had players who didn't come here in the summer because we could not meet their wage demands.

"Certainly I would welcome them back. My own opinion is that they should never have left but that was their choice."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8325118.stm

[**FrOsTy**]

What happens if Cork Bohs Derry cant participate in the premier league? Who takes there place? How great would it be to get promoted by a default again hah

[awec]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but surely this constant problems is an indicator that full time football does not work in the LOI?

Surely the FAI should be putting measures in place to protect clubs from this sort of thing?

[brendy_éire]

I see on Irish league forums theres a thread regarding you joining the Irish League.

Curious as to what Derry City fans views on this would be? Would you be happy to do it if it meant you continued to exist?

This comes up every so often, and to be honest, it's done to death. Dunno why Liam Coyle is getting involved either.

No, we don't want to join the Irish League. And no, we won't ever, ever want to join at any stage in the future.

It would probably save us money in the short term (less travel, lower wages), but in the long run our crowds would plummet and we'd have extra security costs.

BTW, it's funny to note Jeffrey holding Linfield up as an example of how to run a club. It'd be great if we all could get an extra £800,000 a year from our national association, more than the turnover of most other clubs in the IL.

Also interesting to note that it was, apparently, our decision to leave the IL. :rolleyes:

[awec]

Whilst Linfield do profit massively from the IFA, it's nowhere near the 800k you're suggesting.

[CSFShels]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but surely this constant problems is an indicator that full time football does not work in the LOI?

Surely the FAI should be putting measures in place to protect clubs from this sort of thing?
They have, they just haven't enforced them (and won't). The 65% thing etc. They can't tell clubs they can't sign players on fulltime contracts. For obvious reasons.

[dcfc_1928]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8324752.stm

Linfield are ready to renegotiate a contract with the Irish FA over Windsor Park, which saw the Blues get £800,000 last year from N Ireland matches.

The club is currently entitled to 15% of revenue from international games for the use of its ground - a deal which has angered other Premiership teams.

Linfield chairman Jim Kerr has now told rival clubs that they are prepared to "tear up" the existing agreement.

The IFA said on Thursday that the contract would be renegotiated soon.


Whilst Linfield do profit massively from the IFA, it's nowhere near the 800k you're suggesting.

[awec]

Good find actually. This year has been higher than usual though I'm led to believe.

[Dazzy]

Derry can't rejoin the Irish League under their rules unless they move to a different stadia.

See the Oxford decision.

[corkharps]

Sure why don't Harps and Monaghan join their Ulster brethern?

[Graemerz]

Gutter journalism at best, two weeks ago Linfield got £400,000 from the IFA deal, over the fortnight it has risen to £800,000. it all depends who you listen to.

Regardless of the figures, DJ is correct. For years now players have turned us down to play for other clubs who pay bigger wages. There is a tight wage structure at Linfield, with or without the money we have rightfully received from the IFA we would not be in the position Derry and a few other clubs have found themselves in this season.

Oh and it was Derry's decision to quit the Irish League. :)

[Graemerz]

Derry can't rejoin the Irish League under their rules unless they move to a different stadia.

See the Oxford decision.

Back in the 80's the Brandywell was a very unsafe place for Protestants to go to. Although its still not ideal Derry really could not play that card again considering the likes of Linfield and Glentoran have been going to the Brandywell now for the past three seasons.

[awec]

Back in the 80's the Brandywell was a very unsafe place for Protestants to go to. Although its still not ideal Derry really could not play that card again considering the likes of Linfield and Glentoran have been going to the Brandywell now for the past three seasons.
They've hardly been uneventful visits have they? (The Linfield ones).

[Graemerz]

They've hardly been uneventful visits have they? (The Linfield ones).


Its certainly not ideal, but compared to what it was back in the bad old days its a walk in the park. With proper policing or the boys looking after the area ;) it might pass through realitively peaceful if it became the "norm"

[eelmonster]

Back in the 80's the Brandywell was a very unsafe place for Protestants to go to.

I'd imagine, in the 80s, Windsor Park was bedecked in red and white [and blue] bunting when Derry were in town.

[Dazzy]

Back in the 80's the Brandywell was a very unsafe place for Protestants to go to. Although its still not ideal Derry really could not play that card again considering the likes of Linfield and Glentoran have been going to the Brandywell now for the past three seasons.

Who said it has anything to do with the safety of visiting fans?

Its in relation to the council only giving Derry(and anyone else) a 1 year lease on the Brandywell.

[MariborKev]

Regardless of the figures, DJ is correct. For years now players have turned us down to play for other clubs who pay bigger wages. There is a tight wage structure at Linfield, with or without the money we have rightfully received from the IFA we would not be in the position Derry and a few other clubs have found themselves in this season.

Oh and it was Derry's decision to quit the Irish League. :)

Keep paying €25k and the like from McHugh and you'll soon be in the same spot.

Decision to quit? Let's recap.

-Trouble forces up to play in Coleraine
-Cops give signed letter clearing games in the Brandy, this is sent to the IFA. IFA, obviously crack security experts, decide to ignore this and say Derry must play in Coleraine. Derry unable to sustain this, resign.
-Derry apply every year until 1984, with appropriate police assurances, are rejected every year.

But yeah, it was our decision:rolleyes:

[Graemerz]

Keep paying €25k and the like from McHugh and you'll soon be in the same spot.

Decision to quit? Let's recap.

-Trouble forces up to play in Coleraine
-Cops give signed letter clearing games in the Brandy, this is sent to the IFA. IFA, obviously crack security experts, decide to ignore this and say Derry must play in Coleraine. Derry unable to sustain this, resign.
-Derry apply every year until 1984, with appropriate police assurances, are rejected every year.

But yeah, it was our decision:rolleyes:


Ack you'll say one thing we'll say another. Fact is Derry quit the Irish League, therefore it was Derry's decision.

[MariborKev]

Ack, you keep believing the word of Harry Cavan and the rest of the clowns in the IFA at the time.

Perhaps you might want to have a look at the antics of David Bowen in the 84-85 period.

[Graemerz]

Ack, you keep believing the word of Harry Cavan and the rest of the clowns in the IFA at the time.

Perhaps you might want to have a look at the antics of David Bowen in the 84-85 period.

I'm not disputing your problems in the past with the IFA, they are a rubbish out of date organisation with only the interests of the International team at heart. I'd dare say the FAI are just as bad. Derry and the support however were no angels and the sooner you believe that, we all can move on.

My personal opinion on your club is somewhat similar to DJ's. I have no sympathy for your club, but would we like to see you back in the Irish League? Hell yeah.

[MariborKev]

Derry and the support however were no angels and the sooner you believe that, we all can move on.

Where did I say we were- check out my blog(link in sig) to see my thoughts on the behaviour of our support at Windsor.

As for the club, I am on record as criticising their spending over the last 3-4 years.

[Graemerz]

Where did I say we were- check out my blog(link in sig) to see my thoughts on the behaviour of our support at Windsor.

As for the club, I am on record as criticising their spending over the last 3-4 years.

Fair enough review. Kudos.

Your spending hasn't been good but your wages are your main problem i imagine. Also your deal with Dungannon was a rather drawn out neglection on your clubs part. Tell ye what you are lucky our board ****ed up on the Thomas Stewart saga!