The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[Magicme]

Have just been told they are gone to first division. Not sure how true but thats what am hearing.

[pól-dcfc]

Have just been told they are gone to first division. Not sure how true but thats what am hearing.

Source? It's a bad move if we don't dissolve. Those debts are unpayable.

[dortie]

could individual board members face prosecution?


I hope not, i know 2 of them very well, i travelled the country with both supporting this club. The 2 in question are diehards who also foolishly invested their own money.

[Longfordian]

By the sounds of things they won't have a choice on whether to dissolve or not. I'd imagine there'll be a Revenue audit if there's been under the counter payments discovered. Not a very accomodating creditor I'd imagine there'll be no instalments.

[Magicme]

Source? It's a bad move if we don't dissolve. Those debts are unpayable.

Cant really say, but as I said its not confirmed but its what I am hearing from someone who is fairly reliable on these things.

[Weatherman]

Cant really say, but as I said its not confirmed but its what I am hearing from someone who is fairly reliable on these things.

I heard that same rumour this moring with bray getting a play off spot.

[EalingGreen]

Have just been told they are gone to first division. Not sure how true but thats what am hearing.I don't understand this.

If they "only" get relegated, that implies that they will still retain their FAI Licence to operate in the LOI, just at a lower level.

Which prompts the question, just what does a club have to do to disqualify themselves from receiving/retaining a Licence?

And if eg Dungannon Swifts or HMRC should close down Wellvan, say, next April, could the FAI simply transfer their old Licence to a new vehicle ("DCFC2010"?) mid-season and carry on as if nothing had happened?

I can well understand why the FAI would want to keep DCFC in the League if at all possible, but delaying what is looking increasingly likely to be inevitable, risks making the shock worse, if/when it does arrive.

[Magicme]

Weatherman exactly what I was told, but as I say its only rumour and conjecture at the moment.

Ealingreen, dont know what is happening on that front but maybe they are ok for a 1st division licence but not for a premier.

[Weatherman]

exactly what I was told, but as I say its only rumour and conjecture at the moment.

yeah its only a rumour, only time will tell.

[MariborKev]

Lads,

It would make sense

- Automatically demote DCFC T/A Wellvan for breaches of licence this season
- Deny a licence for next season.

[blackholesun]

I dont care whether Derry end up in first division or the A-league, I do hope they stay alive, but I am delighted that Bray are supposedly going to get another bite at the cherry to stay up, its only fair to them.

bhs

[OneRedArmy]

People need to understand there are two complete separate processes here.

1) The club's participation agreement with the FAI.

2) The trading company's compliance with companies and tax legislation.

The latter somewhat influences the former, but given some of the allegations, even if the FAI decide on a sanction, that will not necessarily be the end of the matter. I'm sure HRMC are sharpening their pens as I write....

[Roo69]

Have just been told they are gone to first division. Not sure how true but thats what am hearing.

We are on stand by to play Drogheda on Tuesday, decision tomorrow at the latest from what i'm hearing.

[Finlay Harp]

I don't understand this.

If they "only" get relegated, that implies that they will still retain their FAI Licence to operate in the LOI, just at a lower level.

Which prompts the question, just what does a club have to do to disqualify themselves from receiving/retaining a Licence?

And if eg Dungannon Swifts or HMRC should close down Wellvan, say, next April, could the FAI simply transfer their old Licence to a new vehicle ("DCFC2010"?) mid-season and carry on as if nothing had happened?

I can well understand why the FAI would want to keep DCFC in the League if at all possible, but delaying what is looking increasingly likely to be inevitable, risks making the shock worse, if/when it does arrive.

Did the IFA not bend the rules for Coleraine a couple of years ago and allow them to start afresh whilst staying in the Irish league due to financial irregularities?

[dortie]

Written by Dermot Desmond
Friday, 06 November 2009 13:46
It is already a matter of public record that we as a club are experiencing major difficulties. It is extremely unhelpful for us to now have to deal with further speculation in respect of the club which has been reported in todays media. We can assure everyone who has an interest in Derry City Football Club that we as a board are addressing all matters to the best of our ability and that includes meeting with our legal representatives this morning with particular reference to the recent reports. We are doing everything we can to help the club and we ask our fans, supporters, the media and the FAI to assist us in these difficult times.

Derry City Board of Directors

[passerrby]

question ; if derry are punished /sanctioned for errors in the past will that mean there will be no further sanctions for their 2010 licensing application.
I ask because am wondering if the FAI are attempting to rush all sanctions through now to ensure they have a clean slate for next season. assuming HMRC do not take any action.

[Schumi]

Lads,

It would make sense

- Automatically demote DCFC T/A Wellvan for breaches of licence this season
- Deny a licence for next season.

Meaning that Bray get a play off rather than having to decide who gets the spare premier division place next season?

[dcfcsteve]

Anyhow, if it should turn out that there has been deception, even fraud involved, a mere demotion to the 1st Division by the FAI would be hard to justify as adequate, since DCFC could conceivably get promoted right back where they were after one season, as if nothing had happened.

Worse than that. The FAI could hit us with the ultimate sanction - being sent back to the Irish League.... :D


Of course, I may be guilty of adding to already exagerrated rumour

Who - you ?! Never.....! ;)


Which would then prompt the question, if money were being siphoned off to pay the players, was it also being siphoned off into other pockets?

Remind me what you said again about adding to already exaggerated rumour.....? :o

[pineapple stu]

Meaning that Bray get a play off rather than having to decide who gets the spare premier division place next season?
See post 763 above.

[passerrby]

Meaning that Bray get a play off rather than having to decide who gets the spare premier division place next season?

if there is any sense of real responsibility in the fai there should be more than one spare premier div place next season

[Schumi]

Oops, didn't see the last page.

I assume that would be reason for doing it now though.

[MariborKev]

question ; if derry are punished /sanctioned for errors in the past will that mean there will be no further sanctions for their 2010 licensing application.
I ask because am wondering if the FAI are attempting to rush all sanctions through now to ensure they have a clean slate for next season. assuming HMRC do not take any action.


I can think that we can safely assume that our 2010 Licence Application may be a work of some fiction.

I'd assume we will be denied a licence, if the trading company is still happening at that point.

[Steve Bruce]

Worse than that. The FAI could hit us with the ultimate sanction - being sent back to the Irish League.... :D


Yeah that would be aweful, coming from a league ready to implode to going to a league that is relatively stable in comparison.

Gee how I am so jealous of Derry City at the moment:rolleyes::D

[OneRedArmy]

Yeah that would be aweful, coming from a league ready to implode to going to a league that is relatively stable in comparison.

Gee how I am so jealous of Derry City at the moment:rolleyes::DAnd likewise, its instructive that the vast majority of our fans would rather re-form enter at the A League/1st Division in the LoI than rejoin the IL.

[Magicme]

Written by Dermot Desmond
Friday, 06 November 2009 13:46
It is already a matter of public record that we as a club are experiencing major difficulties. It is extremely unhelpful for us to now have to deal with further speculation in respect of the club which has been reported in todays media. We can assure everyone who has an interest in Derry City Football Club that we as a board are addressing all matters to the best of our ability and that includes meeting with our legal representatives this morning with particular reference to the recent reports. We are doing everything we can to help the club and we ask our fans, supporters, the media and the FAI to assist us in these difficult times.

Derry City Board of Directors

I really feel for all at Derry, I know Dermot and it kills me to see him having this happening around him.

I feel dead guilty now for contributing my twopence worth.

[Roo69]

I really feel for all at Derry, I know Dermot and it kills me to see him having this happening around him.

I feel dead guilty now for contributing my twopence worth.

I presume you fell sorry for the Derry fans and not the board and the way they have been running the club ? Same as Cork...

[Longfordian]

Tom must be chuffed that the focus has been taken away from him for a while.

[Mr A]

in fairness, things do seem to have gone very quiet* in Cork.

*- By the ridiculously crap standards we've come to expect this season at any rate.

[thischarmingman]

I agree, i also think the board made a critical error in believing that Kenny and the current squad were capable of winning the title. Thats what the budget was based on. They lost the gamble.

In fairness, what blind spot caused people to think we were going to win the league this year? I've been looking for a post I made in February or March going into more detail, but essentially we finished a good 30 points behind Bohs last seaon, a season in which Pat McCourt starred in the first half, and Niall McGinn for the entirety. We lost two players of that quality and brought in Kearney and O'Brien. While I'm not saying they're bad players (far from it), how in the world could anyone sensible possibly have thought that we were going to make up a 30-odd point gap?


in fairness, things do seem to have gone very quiet* in Cork.

*- By the ridiculously crap standards we've come to expect this season at any rate.

It's mad that just a couple of weeks ago we had 'Bus-gate,' and yet I still know what you mean when you say that.

[Mr A]

From Radio Foyle...

The FAI meeting takes place at 1.30 tomorrow. Derry are seeking to delay their meeting with the FAI tomorrow.

DCFC club solicitor Des Doherty pointing out that no charges have been made and the club are unaware of why the FAI want to meet them.

[Mr A]

Stephen Kenny on relegation: 'We don't want to contemplate that' and spoke about all the wasted effort from volunteers etc. Says the club solicitor is on it.

[EalingGreen]

Did the IFA not bend the rules for Coleraine a couple of years ago and allow them to start afresh whilst staying in the Irish league due to financial irregularities?
Not quite.

Afaiaa, the original club went into administration, with a new (fans-controlled) entity taking the former club's place, since at the time there was no actual provision in the IL Rules to deny a club "inheriting" membership in such circumstances!

Therefore, it was not a case of anyone "bending the rules", since technically no rule was bent/broken. Remember, this was before Licensing proper was introduced; since then the IFA has taken over the IL (as the FAI the LOI) and introduced a new Licensing Procedure which inter alia would prevent any re-occurrence.

And fwiw, the IFA does look determined to enforce the new Licensing provisions rigidly, if the example of Portadown FC - denied for submitting an otherwise valid Application 29 minutes late - is anything to go by.

Anyhow, this extract from Wiki seems reliable enough:

"The club's well-publicised financial problems had already overshadowed much of the 2003-04 season (despite a substantial donation from Cold Feet actor and Coleraine fan James Nesbitt) and at its end the club was forced to operate on a reduced budget, with several top players leaving. Despite this a top six finish was still achieved. The summer of 2005 saw more budget cuts and several big names leaving the Showgrounds, but this time the main concern for fans was the very future of the club. In August, the Inland Revenue filed for a winding-up order against Coleraine due to debts of £1.3 million. The Friends of Coleraine, worked tirelessly to persuade the High Court to postpone the hearing to allow them to put together a business plan to show that the club could be viably run. Eventually the court ruled in the club’s favour and they were allowed to enter administration and a steering committee was set up to run the club.

The club went on to defeat Instsitute to win the North West Senior Cup for the 17th time. Premier League survival was ensured on the pitch and in June 2006, the Friends of Coleraine formally took control of the club and appointed a new board. In 2008 the club reached the Irish Cup final, but lost 2-1 to Linfield"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleraine_F.C.

[OneRedArmy]

Stephen Kenny on relegation: 'We don't want to contemplate that' and spoke about all the wasted effort from volunteers etc. Says the club solicitor is on it.
You missed the, "very well paid manager who will likely be out of a job" between the words "Kenny" and "on".

Whilst he may not want to contemplate relegation, it doesn't mean its ain't gonna happen.

As an aside, usual shoddy way of doing its business through the press by the FAI though.

[EalingGreen]

Worse than that. The FAI could hit us with the ultimate sanction - being sent back to the Irish League....
Considering DCFC's present "relationship" with Swifts, Linfield and Cliftonville, I wouldn't be so certain that the IL would even have you back...:eek:




Who - you ?! Never.....!



Remind me what you said again about adding to already exaggerated rumour.....? :oSpeculation, even when added to other peoples rumours, is really only a problem when presented as "fact". Whereas I have been entirely open about what I have been suggesting or guessing.

But as it happens, the rumours which have been spread here and elsewhere, by both fans and non-fans of DCFC, are turning out to be a hell of a sight more reliable than the "Official Statements" being put out by the Directors of the club.

Therefore unless you have a particular preference for "playing the man, not the ball", you might be better served directing your sarcasm in their direction, not mine. :rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

From Radio Foyle...

The FAI meeting takes place at 1.30 tomorrow. Derry are seeking to delay their meeting with the FAI tomorrow.
How long does it take to search down the back of the sofa?


From Radio Foyle...
DCFC club solicitor Des Doherty* pointing out that no charges have been made and the club are unaware of why the FAI want to meet them.
Er, could it be that they have been "called to the Headmaster's Study" in order to be presented with charges?

Normally you talk about something "going beyond a joke", but this has "gone beyond serious" and is ending up a total joke (with due apology to DCFC fans, who can't be finding any of it funny)

* - That would be the same solicitor who was previously unaware eg that the club had signed an agreement with Dungannon Swifts to hand over a percentage of any transfer fee received for Niall McGinn?

[pineapple stu]

How long does it take to search down the back of the sofa?
There's only four days to stall till the play-off first leg, so I'd say four days two hours and 19 minutes.

[SMorgan]

....

DCFC club solicitor Des Doherty pointing out that no charges have been made and the club are unaware of why the FAI want to meet them.


Good defence, play stupid and pretend you don't know what everybody is on about.

I am all for not relegating them. Relegate Bray and get Derry City to play Drogheda in the play-off.

[dortie]

how in the world could anyone sensible possibly have thought that we were going to make up a 30-odd point gap?

.

Believe me Kenny's objective was to win the league. It may not have been made public but the money and resources where given to him to do just that.

The board obviously have made bad decisions but it didnt help getting beat at home by Sligo/Dundalk etc. Not to mention getting dumed out of the cup.

[iceman]

Believe me Kenny's objective was to win the league. It may not have been made public but the money and resources where given to him to do just that.
Is that why there were two sets of books?:D

[EalingGreen]

Believe me Kenny's objective was to win the league. It may not have been made public but the money and resources where given to him to do just that.
Can't comment on whether given those resources, it was feasible that Kenny could win the League.

But even if they had, could the extra revenue which would have been generated (increased gates/prize money/corporate, CL entry etc) possibly have matched all the extra money they must have been gambling (assuming they really are hundreds of thousands "in the hole")?

[dortie]

Can't comment on whether given those resources, it was feasible that Kenny could win the League.

But even if they had, could the extra revenue which would have been generated (increased gates/prize money/corporate, CL entry etc) possibly have matched all the extra money they must have been gambling (assuming they really are hundreds of thousands "in the hole")?

I personally think it would have had a major impact on the debt, reducing it significantly, add to that the exit from the Cup and the gates we lost from that. We literally won damn all prize-money over two seasons, and you know how that effects home attendance - specifically Derry, fighting for the league in the last month or two can be the difference of 4,000 or 1,500 every home game. Its not rocket science.

[Mr A]

Richie Sadlier and Tony O Donoghue both saying that Derry are to be relegated on RTE.

[thischarmingman]

Believe me Kenny's objective was to win the league. It may not have been made public but the money and resources where given to him to do just that.

The board obviously have made bad decisions but it didnt help getting beat at home by Sligo/Dundalk etc. Not to mention getting dumed out of the cup.

But it's not like we were up there at the end of last season and just needed a little extra push- we were miles off the pace. Referring to losses against Sligo and Dundalk makes it sound as though that's what has let us down this season when we had the exact same problems last season. All last season anyone could see that we while we were capable of playing lovely football against teams who opened up against us, we couldn't break down teams, we lacked imagination at times, we lacked creativity at times and we didn't seem to be in possession of a plan B. And that was with McCourt and McGinn. Not to mention the fact that we could have done with a 20-a-season striker.

Roll on this season, we lose McCourt and McGinn and lo and behold, we while are capable of playing lovely football against teams who open up against us, we can't break down teams, we lack imagination a lot, we lack creativity a lot and we don't seem to be in possession of a plan B. Not to mention the fact that we could do with a 20-a-season striker.

The nicest thing I can say is that if you expected City to win the league this year you were letting your heart rule your head.

[galwayjames]

But it's not like we were up there at the end of last season and just needed a little extra push- we were miles off the pace.

To be fair everyone was off the pace last year, Rovers, Cork etc... & I would have to say the Derry squad was good enough to be challenging for the league, sure you were only a few points off at the start of June, a run without scoring goals if I remember correctly killed your challenge....

[MariborKev]

Emotional, but a great's night craic tonight.

My personal favourite was the rendition of "Suspicious Minds" at the board......

[brendy_éire]

Emotional, but a great's night craic tonight.

My personal favourite was the rendition of "Suspicious Minds" at the board......

Wile emotional.

Can't believe we're gone.

[A N Mouse]

Considering DCFC's present "relationship" with Swifts, Linfield and Cliftonville, I wouldn't be so certain that the IL would even have you back...:eek:

Do you ever devolve?

Aside from the reasons given re: not wanting to go back. The reason why there'll be no team in the IL calling the Brandywell home, anytime soon was discussed several hundred posts ago and yet you persist with meaningless drivel.

[Acornvilla]

Do you ever devolve?

Aside from the reasons given re: not wanting to go back. The reason why there'll be no team in the IL calling the Brandywell home, anytime soon was discussed several hundred posts ago and yet you persist with meaningless drivel.
EG keeps repeating the same sort of stuff over and over so the discussion goes around in circles arg!!:mad: and would ya go ta bed :rolleyes:

[Finlay Harp]

Emotional, but a great's night craic tonight.

My personal favourite was the rendition of "Suspicious Minds" at the board......

Did many of you travel to Dundalk Kev?

[MariborKev]

200 maybe Finlay.

I was on the terrace, me da was in the stand and he said there was a decent crowd in there.