The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[MariborKev]

Ah ok i understand. I take it your board gambled on keeping everything as it was, sometime back, instead of ringing the changes then when it was apparent they were needed.

It seems most clubs have gamblers at the helm but the problem is they actually are gambling with peoples livlihoods, all the while taking the fans and in certain cases the local (business) community for granted.

Exactly HB.

We had a public meeting a few months ago where it was announcing that we were selling 500 season tickets for next season early. Questions from the floor about financial situation/revenue were not answered/dismissed.

Meanwhile we continuing merrily with overnight stays, pre match meals, ballsing up merchandise opportunities etc. But sure those of us who predicted this "‘sit back and say ‘I told you so’ with a certain amount of glee" apparently(the chairman's words, not mine)

[Hairy Bowsie]

But sure those of us who predicted this "‘sit back and say ‘I told you so’ with a certain amount of glee" apparently(the chairman's words, not mine)

As is always the case. I remember at Shels there were a few who asked the akward questions and they were usually shouted down (i wish i could say i was one but sadly, i did tend to believe a lot of what Ollie said). I know it was much the same with Bohs, though it was possibly more a case of been out voted than shouted down with them.

[SkStu]

As is always the case. I remember at Shels there were a few who asked the akward questions and they were usually shouted down (i wish i could say i was one but sadly, i did tend to believe a lot of what Ollie said). I know it was much the same with Bohs, though it was possibly more a case of been out voted than shouted down with them.

out-shouting and then out-voting, in that order.

[Dunny]

Oh thank God. Now, time to turn our collective attention to Dundalk fans - who's first to leave

Have Galway even got enough fans to mount a boycott?:o:o:o

[Candystripe]

The Derry story is more or less what ORA and KevMaribor have always said.

The problem has been that our board have tried to keep up with certain other clubs and with the recession and the demise of our two main sponsors "not coming across with the agreed sponsorship" and now the Setanta home game with Linfield that probably would give us a £50k+ gate re-arranged until next season..........(March) ...........then you can see why we have the problems.

I'm seriously fecked off..unlike most Derry fans that at the first sign of the shít hitting the fan we have players fecking abandoning ship afet Derry never ever messing them about.

FFS ......................We are paying there Morgage's and the big fancy cars they are driving ....but with the first sign of trouble they might feck off to the SPL .

Good luck (NOT) and enjoy your time getting whipped in a two team league.


Signed a real L.O.I. fan.

[thischarmingman]

I'm seriously fecked off..unlike most Derry fans that at the first sign of the shít hitting the fan we have players fecking abandoning ship afet Derry never ever messing them about.

FFS ......................We are paying there Morgage's and the big fancy cars they are driving ....but with the first sign of trouble they might feck off to the SPL .

Good luck (NOT) and enjoy your time getting whipped in a two team league.


Signed a real L.O.I. fan.

I don't even know where to start. If I went into work today to be told I'd be getting 25% of my wages this month, I'd be out the door before they'd finished the sentence. Why should players martyr themselves and their families to be "real LOI fans?" You seem to have got confused between the Premiership and the LOI section.

[dcfcsteve]

Last post on this, cos the info is there for you -



and



The last is interesting, as you sniff at an amount you say today is not to be sniffed at.

Just back from a weekend away.

As I suspected Stu, you were taking an uber-liberal interpretatioon of what I said. Or if I was being unkind, I'd say you were talking out of your aras.

E30K is a relatively small sum of money by Irish footballing standards - it was then and it is now. Not to be sniffed at - no sum is - but still relatively small. And those quotes say absolutely zero about you either predicting that City would end up in trouble or me "poo pooing" that notion.

Anyways - good to see the team battling for a late winner in Bray despite being out of pocket. Talk from the club is that this is a temporary short-fall - which seems to suggest that there is money on the horizon (UEFA 3rd round cash ? Setanta money ?) - but I'm not convinced myself. Big changes are needed to reign-in the club's expenditure, and hopefully that is happening now rather than when it's terminal.

P.S. Anyone want to buy a friendly against Scottish club Glasgow Celtic ? :)

[OneRedArmy]

P.S. Anyone want to buy a friendly against Scottish club Glasgow Celtic ? :)After NAMA finish valuing all the toxic loans they can have a stab at valuing a toxic friendly...... Or possibly two toxic friendlies if McGinn's deal had a similar clause.

[dcfcsteve]

After NAMA finish valuing all the toxic loans they can have a stab at valuing a toxic friendly...... Or possibly two toxic friendlies if McGinn's deal had a similar clause.

True :)

As a complete aside - I read an article in the (London) Financial Times yesterday which said that the Irish government provides prize money for horse and greyhound racing ! :eek: Is this true ?!?

[redobit]

Exactly HB.

We had a public meeting a few months ago where it was announcing that we were selling 500 season tickets for next season early. Questions from the floor about financial situation/revenue were not answered/dismissed.



Hate these ideas, clubs just selling their future.

[Macy]

After NAMA finish valuing all the toxic loans they can have a stab at valuing a toxic friendly......
That'd be youse sorted for the foreseeable so....


As a complete aside - I read an article in the (London) Financial Times yesterday which said that the Irish government provides prize money for horse and greyhound racing ! Is this true ?!?
I'm gobsmacked this was news to anyone. They provide about half the prize money for the nags irrc.

Edit: Google throws up this article, by some bloke called Johnny Ward...


The state provides roughly half of the prize-money in Irish racing and this has fostered resentment among other sports' aficionados, but Bolger was eager to stress that much of this goes back into the economy.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/bolger-believes-government-funds-vital-to-protect-jobs-1698967.html

[John83]

True :)

As a complete aside - I read an article in the (London) Financial Times yesterday which said that the Irish government provides prize money for horse and greyhound racing ! :eek: Is this true ?!?
http://stigonline.com/misc/si_funding.htm

[marinobohs]

Ah ok i understand. I take it your board gambled on keeping everything as it was, sometime back, instead of ringing the changes then when it was apparent they were needed.

It seems most clubs have gamblers at the helm but the problem is they actually are gambling with peoples livlihoods, all the while taking the fans and in certain cases the local (business) community for granted.

Sounds like most boards alright. With so many players out of contract and just about every club needing to cut back on costs there will NEVER be a better time to bring down wage costs.
the fact remains it is not down to the FAI, Licencing or anyone other than the clubs themselves to get their house in order. one last chance 9or one last role of the dice)

[marinobohs]

I don't even know where to start. If I went into work today to be told I'd be getting 25% of my wages this month, I'd be out the door before they'd finished the sentence. Why should players martyr themselves and their families to be "real LOI fans?" You seem to have got confused between the Premiership and the LOI section.

But if you were told you had to accept a large cut in wages or your job was gone ? I think players that wish to may leave in the case of clubs are renaging on contracts, the problem is leave to where ?

[Mr A]

It may be true that because so many players are out of contract that there is a great opportunity to reduce wages, but the same was true this year and the clubs still fecked themselves up.

[MariborKev]

Anyways - good to see the team battling for a late winner in Bray despite being out of pocket. Talk from the club is that this is a temporary short-fall - which seems to suggest that there is money on the horizon (UEFA 3rd round cash ? Setanta money ?) - but I'm not convinced myself. Big changes are needed to reign-in the club's expenditure, and hopefully that is happening now rather than when it's terminal.

Steve,

Your faith in the board is touching, albeit misplaced. I'm back as persona non grata for having the temerity to not treading the party line.

[dcfcsteve]

Steve,

Your faith in the board is touching, albeit misplaced. I'm back as persona non grata for having the temerity to not treading the party line.

Kev - what faith in the board ?? :confused:

I couldn't have been clearer when I said that "I'm not convinced".

If you're referring to the hope that cuts are being made - yes, I do hope they're being made. That's not to say that I have blind faith that the Board is doing them.

[Mr A]

To add to their woes, I believe DCFC have a date in court on 23rd September over the money owed to Dungannon Swifts.

[MariborKev]

Aye Mr A, initial hearing is that date.

[MariborKev]

If you're referring to the hope that cuts are being made - yes, I do hope they're being made. That's not to say that I have blind faith that the Board is doing them.

Steve,

As you well know, someone gave us a scarily accurate prediction of the financial meltdown at DCFC in August(I'll be asking him for the lotto number some weeks) whilst the board were telling everyone that we were grand and there was nothing to worry about.

Until we get an honest, open meeting where they will take and answer questions then we are no further forward. And the board are rapidly losing the hearts and minds of the support.

[leo120408]

Kev - I would agree with you totally on this.

I think sensible people like you saw this coming from maybe March time but yet when people like us or I dared to question our finances or logic to signing Kearney or MacManus we were shot down agressively.

I dread to analyse what we are paying in wages to Kearney, Jennings, Morrow, McChyrstal, MacManus & Stewart for very little if any overall benefit to the squad.

Surely we should have given McClean, Nash, Clarke & McCauley a bit more money as an incentive to push on from the reserves.

I also point out - the shambles of our merchandise section, the over-charging for pre-season games and letting Linfield off the hook over the Setanta Cup game this month as more evidence of my own concern at the board.

Good people yes for sure - but do they have the knowledge, expertise and financial business acumen to run a full time professional club - No.

[Steve Bruce]

Kev - I would agree with you totally on this.

I think sensible people like you saw this coming from maybe March time but yet when people like us or I dared to question our finances or logic to signing Kearney or MacManus we were shot down agressively.

I dread to analyse what we are paying in wages to Kearney, Jennings, Morrow, McChyrstal, MacManus & Stewart for very little if any overall benefit to the squad.

Surely we should have given McClean, Nash, Clarke & McCauley a bit more money as an incentive to push on from the reserves.

I also point out - the shambles of our merchandise section, the over-charging for pre-season games and letting Linfield off the hook over the Setanta Cup game this month as more evidence of my own concern at the board.

Good people yes for sure - but do they have the knowledge, expertise and financial business acumen to run a full time professional club - No.

What is this about?

[SMorgan]

I was wondering about that myself!!!

[refjohn]

I was wondering about that myself!!!

The Linfield thing is a red herring - Setanta had provisional fixtures which had Linfield in Derry this month. However some other factors came into play such as Linfield and Glens in Dublin on same day for final games, so some fixtures were switched and as a result Linfield come to Derry in February.

Only issue was Setanta providing a template for fixtures prior to draw. The changes were done within 4 or 6 hours of draw so no way Derry or any team could have built a budget based on the draw.

[refjohn]

I also point out - the shambles of our merchandise section, the over-charging for pre-season games and letting Linfield off the hook over the Setanta Cup game this month as more evidence of my own concern at the board.


Were pre-season games not £5 - hardly over pricing.

[Sam_Heggy]

Now this thread is why I love foot.ie, it re-assures you that your club is not really a laughing stock and that really your board whom you criticise are just "going with the flow".

I mean who wants to exclude themselves from the "in" crowd?

I say we ban all Rovers, Bray and UCD folk from here for their clubs current policy of spending less than they are bringing in, down with that sort of thing, let's embrace our hero's Bohs, Derry, Harps, Cork, Fingal, Sligo and co.

[MariborKev]

RJ,

There two changes, of which one was several days after the draw. However as you say, no way a budget was set on the timing of a draw. Yet another red herring from the board.

[Candystripe]

I also don't think they budgeted for attendances of under 2,000 for the last three league games (Cork,Pat's and Galway) with very few actually paying in due to the amount of season ticket holders we have.

It seems we are only getting ST holders and die-hards at our last three league games.

I accept that mistakes are being made and are continuing to be made by our club at all levels of the club.But we need an answer and even some sort of solution in the short-term.



Times....... they are a-changing and probably for every club in the league.

[dcfcsteve]

I also don't think they budgeted for attendances of under 2,000 for the last three league games (Cork,Pat's and Galway) with very few actually paying in due to the amount of season ticket holders we have.

It seems we are only getting ST holders and die-hards at our last three league games.

I accept that mistakes are being made and are continuing to be made by our club at all levels of the club.But we need an answer and even some sort of solution in the short-term.



Times....... they are a-changing and probably for every club in the league.

The end of the season is just around the corner, with a dry spell of 4 months with no matches to bring in any income. Add to that our annual attempt to pretend Christmas doesn't exist by not having any merchandise available for it, and we'll be even more in the financial mire.

Once the seaosn is out of the way we need an open and honest meeting between the board and fans. The long-promised AGM would do - but personaly I'd prefer an open meeting, not a shareholders only one.

Regardless, I suspect the off season is going to be painful for all associated with the club. Linfield will probably find the team who turns out to play them in February is completely different to the one that would've faced them this month.... :(

[Candystripe]

Steve, remember Derry do sell upwards of 1,000 season tickets around Christmas time each year and with ten or so players contracts up in November the money raised by that would need to be well over the amount needed to keep the club going in the off season.

Also as you said. the Linfield game coming before the start of the season will pull in £50k+ as no-one will realise just how bad we probably will be come next season.

[dong]

Not trying to wind anybody up, far from it.
Why are the crowds gone so bad for ye now? The team have had a few bad results but hardly enough to drive fans away. You get a great travelling support behind you as well.
It's a bit disappointing for such a great football city.

[dcfcsteve]

Steve, remember Derry do sell upwards of 1,000 season tickets around Christmas time each year and with ten or so players contracts up in November the money raised by that would need to be well over the amount needed to keep the club going in the off season.

Also as you said. the Linfield game coming before the start of the season will pull in £50k+ as no-one will realise just how bad we probably will be come next season.

1) We've already pre-sold (and doubtless spent/committed) some of our seasons tickets for next year though. And I'm sure sales will be down for next year versus this anyway.

2) What if we lose the McGinn case ? That could be a 5 figure sum we have to find from somewhere.

3) One of our biggest fundraisers over the last 4 or so years has been the Dream Draw. However - I fear that has run its course, as the novelty has wonr off and the recession is biting against any £100 tickets. So how do we plug the c. £100k that used to bring in if we don't run it, or raise a lot less from it ?

4) I sense that City fans are getting a bit bored of playing Linfield every year. The hardcore will be there, as will a decent travelling support. But I'm not convinced ther floating voter will be too bothered this tme round.

5) What other financial skeletons are in the cupboard that we don't know about ? That's why we need an open and honest meeting.

On the bright side, we do have a friendly against Celtic's U16 Reserve squad to look forward to.... :D

[dcfcsteve]

Not trying to wind anybody up, far from it.
Why are the crowds gone so bad for ye now? The team have had a few bad results but hardly enough to drive fans away. You get a great travelling support behind you as well.
It's a bit disappointing for such a great football city.

We've a hardcore of about 2,000 fans, and the others ebb and flow depending on weather, results, opposition etc.

Some of the football we've been playing recently has been poor, so it's no wonder we're turning off the floaters and those on the fringes of our hardcore support.

[micls]

2) What if we lose the McGinn case ? That could be a 5 figure sum we have to find from somewhere.


Is this even an if?

I could be missing some info but it seems fairly cut and dry. You owe them money, you havn't paid...

[pineapple stu]

2) What if we lose the McGinn case ? That could be a 5 figure sum we have to find from somewhere.
Hardly massive money in the LoI sure.

[dcfcsteve]

Hardly massive money in the LoI sure.

Indeed. :D But as also said - it all counts. Particularly when you've lost your main sponsor, are out of both domestic cups, and your crowds are falling - which are all new developments from when I opined on the money we owed UCD.

How come you haven't answered my questions on the other thread about your opposition to Platinum One etc ?

[dcfcsteve]

Is this even an if?

I could be missing some info but it seems fairly cut and dry. You owe them money, you havn't paid...

I'd hope that we wouldn't be going to the expense of solicitor's costs and court fees if we knew we'd have to hand it over at the end of it all. Particularly as our solicitor is considered to be quite hot (though not in a Hansel from Zoolander stylee).

But then again - in the absence of open and honest info from the Board we just don't know.

[OneRedArmy]

Not trying to wind anybody up, far from it.
Why are the crowds gone so bad for ye now? The team have had a few bad results but hardly enough to drive fans away. You get a great travelling support behind you as well.
It's a bit disappointing for such a great football city.Our crowds aren't actually that far down on average, at least compared with the last couple of seasons. Another red herring really.

The problem is that we've finally run out of ways to front load season ticket and other revenue, donor fatigue has set in with fans being asked to support countless draws in tough economic times and we can't pull a McGinn, McCourt, Sammon-type transfer out of the hat to keep us going for another few months.

When you run a business on a shoestring in a seat-of-the-pants manner, its inevitable that you'll hit a wall at some stage.

[Candystripe]

Our crowds aren't actually that far down on average, at least compared with the last couple of seasons. Another red herring really.


TBF ORA (Kev) our crowds are seriously down to the levels that we had with Fenlon and Robo if not worse.

I know you've missed the last few home games but it is seriously and noticeably down.

[MMVIII]

I say we ban all Rovers, Bray and UCD folk from here for their clubs current policy of spending less than they are bringing in, down with that sort of thing, let's embrace our hero's Bohs, Derry, Harps, Cork, Fingal, Sligo and co.

That was last season, we've copped on, and we have lived well withing our means since last summer.

[Mr A]

That was last season, we've copped on, and we have lived well withing our means since last summer.

At least partly because the FAI forced you to in fairness.

[sligoman]

At least partly because the FAI forced you to in fairness.FAI can't force a club to a certain wage budget, they can only advise clubs on it. It's still the club's decision.

[osarusan]

FAI can't force a club to a certain wage budget, they can only advise clubs on it. It's still the club's decision.
How many different budgets did you seek their advice on before the start of the season?

[micls]

FAI can't force a club to a certain wage budget, they can only advise clubs on it. It's still the club's decision.

Of course they can.

They can not give you a license if they're not happy with it.

[sligoman]

How many different budgets did you seek their advice on before the start of the season?What has that got to do with it? It's still the clubs decision regardless of how many times they went to the FAI about it.

[Mr A]

The fact remains that Sligo are probably spending less than they would have if it wasn't for the FAI's intervention.

[sligoman]

Of course they can.

They can not give you a license if they're not happy with it.Q9. (http://foot.ie/blog/footie-qa-padraig-smith/)

'Determining an appropriate budget and adhering to this budget is at all times the responsibility of the clubs directors or management committees.'

'We do not set budgets for clubs though as ultimately it is the responsibility of each club to manage their own commercial affairs properly.'

The fact remains that Sligo are probably spending less than they would have if it wasn't for the FAI's intervention.Yes, but not 'forced' as you put it.

[micls]

Q9. (http://foot.ie/blog/footie-qa-padraig-smith/)

'Determining an appropriate budget and adhering to this budget is at all times the responsibility of the clubs directors or management committees.'

'We do not set budgets for clubs though as ultimately it is the responsibility of each club to manage their own commercial affairs properly.'
Yes, but not 'forced' as you put it.

What Padraig Smith says and what is actually done can be very different.

Do you really think that you would have gotten a license if your board had told the FAI to feck off when they told ye to revise ye're budget repeatedly.

[Rovers Maniac]

From what i heard only two clubs have not had the PFAI in this season, Shams and ourselves.

[Rovers1]

From what i've been told, Sligo Rovers have a made a tidy enough profit from this year so far.

The best run club in the country!!??:eek: