The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[John83]

Could the money have come from undeclared gate receipts and so not have been visible to the FAI at all?
If it was, the players were, as Pineapple Stu says, being paid partly in cash, which doesn't seem to have been the case. If it was, it would also constitute tax evasion - there's VAT on them there gate receipts, or else there were figures on the Derry accounts the FAI should have been able to tell weren't adding up.

[Schumi]

There was in a way; the clubs had all applied when Kilkenny pulled out. Fingal were an A League side when they signed Conan, I remember. It's not strictly the same thing, but it's not completely different either.What I mean is that there's a league table this time so, for example, Castlebar would get the place before Tullamore if both satisfied First Division licensing whereas anyone who had applied for the A League last time was on the same level on the pitch.

[pineapple stu]

I'd say you could get around that easily enough if you wanted to. The only thing said about promotion from the A League is that you have to finish top three in your group and then win a play-off. If no non-reserve side finishes top three, there's no play-off. I'd say that's enough to allow that a new league side would be selected the same way as Fingal were, TBH.


or else there were figures on the Derry accounts the FAI should have been able to tell weren't adding up
That's the point ORA is making when he says management accounts can be useless.

[fanatic]

does anyone know if the SPC ( Standard Player Contract ) is submitted every year for each player, so that the club can obtain a license ?

[Longfordian]

Depends on the length of the contract I think but it has to be submitted to register the player initially.

[Ronnie]

Absolutely no way I believe that the players should get away with this nonsense. The PFAI fought long and hard to get a Standard Palyers Contract, which is based on gross amounts of money. This contract supersedes any other one, so a player saying he sighed a blank form and left it to the club to fill in is a joke! There are 4 parts to the form, one for the club one for the palyer and 2 go to the FAI. So are we supposed to belive that none of them got their copy from Derry city?

[OneRedArmy]

Its been noted elsewhere, but whatever about the rest of the players, we have two qualified accountants on our playing staff.

You'd think they at least would be wary of signing blank contracts when they had already signed a contract....

[rerun]

Absolutely no way I believe that the players should get away with this nonsense. The PFAI fought long and hard to get a Standard Palyers Contract, which is based on gross amounts of money. This contract supersedes any other one, so a player saying he sighed a blank form and left it to the club to fill in is a joke! There are 4 parts to the form, one for the club one for the palyer and 2 go to the FAI. So are we supposed to belive that none of them got their copy from Derry city?

I guess maybe the player got a copy with the higher payment and the FAI got the one with the lower. The FAI have to have one copy, I'm assuming that as per any other job where you get a contract the employee gets a contract, so that the club are the only folks who really know whats going on? I hope.

[John83]

That's the point ORA is making when he says management accounts can be useless.
I was thinking audited accounts, which you need for a license. Did Derry not have these last January?

[A N Mouse]

Its been noted elsewhere, but whatever about the rest of the players, we have two qualified accountants on our playing staff.

You'd think they at least would be wary of signing blank contracts when they had already signed a contract....

Then again, what's our former chairman's day job?

[OneRedArmy]

Then again, what's our former chairman's day job?He's resigned now, his life is presumably in ruins and there will inevitably be further consequences.

The players appear to have gotten away with murder.

[sligored]

Absolutely no way I believe that the players should get away with this nonsense. The PFAI fought long and hard to get a Standard Palyers Contract, which is based on gross amounts of money. This contract supersedes any other one, so a player saying he sighed a blank form and left it to the club to fill in is a joke! There are 4 parts to the form, one for the club one for the palyer and 2 go to the FAI. So are we supposed to belive that none of them got their copy from Derry city?

But delaney offered them an amnesty if they owned up before this thursday.
I doubt he will go back on that.

[pineapple stu]

I was thinking audited accounts, which you need for a license. Did Derry not have these last January?
Sorry. You'd have to imagine not. Or else, for some bizarre reason, they gave them to the FAI and not to the Companies House.

[John83]

Sorry. You'd have to imagine not. Or else, for some bizarre reason, they gave them to the FAI and not to the Companies House.
So, do you not actually need audited accounts for a licence, or was there a suspicious spike in the market price of fudge last January?

[Buile Shuibhne]

But delaney offered them an amnesty if they owned up before this thursday.
I doubt he will go back on that.

They weren't offered an amnesty.

They were threatened.


And the players in question must come clean to either the FAI or the Professional Footballers’ Association of Ireland within the next two days, or risk further sanctions.

The FAI have threatened to withhold player registrations pending an enquiry, which would effectively make the players unemployable next season.

Delaney told RTE News: “I’m giving players both past and present who were with Derry City till 12 o’clock next Thursday to give full information as to how these two contracts operated.

“They can either give it directly to the FAI or to Stephen McGuinness in the Professional Footballers’ Association.”

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/premier/news.asp?n=37514

[pineapple stu]

So, do you not actually need audited accounts for a licence, or was there a suspicious spike in the market price of fudge last January?

I think it's rather suitable that the :rolleyes: smiley is looking the other way.

[Longfordian]

Considering they kicked Cobh out for not producing any audited accounts you'd have to assume Derry provided something. Then again..

[thischarmingman]

I also would find it worrying from a DCFC point of view that the vice chair has chosen to remain. His pronouncements on DC-Chat would not inspire confidence.

I agree with the latter part of that statement but afaik, legally the entire board can't resign; there has to be someone there.

I'm sure he'll go in time, once the new board are installed.

[John83]

Considering they kicked Cobh out for not producing any audited accounts you'd have to assume Derry provided something. Then again..
I think Cobh didn't provide any documentation. Maybe Derry got though on 'provisional' accounts of some sort.

[thischarmingman]

Maybe Derry got though on 'provisional' accounts of some sort.

Not the real accounts which want to see everything conducted in the boardroom, but accounts written up in Irish, demanding every item is met threatening imminent violence if they're not?

[Longfordian]

The Licence requires full signed and audited accounts with the auditor's certificate. Management accounts aren't enough. The auditor also has to certify about all monies payable to players having been paid or an agreement reached. If they didn't have these there's no way they should have got a licence. I know if it was us we definitely wouldn't have got one.

[OneRedArmy]

The Licence requires full signed and audited accounts with the auditor's certificate. Management accounts aren't enough. The auditor also has to certify about all monies payable to players having been paid or an agreement reached. If they didn't have these there's no way they should have got a licence. I know if it was us we definitely wouldn't have got one.Last available signed and audited accounts?

Which could conceivably cover the previous season, rather than the immediate past season just completed?

[Longfordian]

Nope. Up to year ending 31st December 2008 as far as I'm aware, certainly that's what we submitted. That was the reason financials were to be submitted by January 31st. Gives clubs a chance to have them done and audited.

[Macy]

They were threatened.
An effective fine of 2 Months plus wages not enough punishment? If the holding company goes, I doubt they'll get much, if any, of what's owed.

[OneRedArmy]

An effective fine of 2 Months plus wages not enough punishment? If the holding company goes, I doubt they'll get much, if any, of what's owed.Plus a tax settlement with HRMC/Revenue IF (big if) tax and NI/PRSI was being paid on the lower amount.

[Battery Rover]

Nope. Up to year ending 31st December 2008 as far as I'm aware

Correct

[WoodquayBoy]

Not the real accounts which want to see everything conducted in the boardroom, but accounts written up in Irish, demanding every item is met threatening imminent violence if they're not?
Any mention of Continuity accounts?

[OneRedArmy]

I think Cobh didn't provide any documentation. Maybe Derry got though on 'provisional' accounts of some sort.
The Wellvan shareholders certainly haven't seen any YE 2008 accounts.

And maybe never will.

[Longfordian]

Maybe the auditor was willing to let them go to the FAI but not the Companies Office. Can you be struck off for giving false information to the FAI?.

[OneRedArmy]

Can you be struck off for giving false information to the FAI?.You get membership of the world's least exclusive club instead...

[Schumi]

I'd say you could get around that easily enough if you wanted to. The only thing said about promotion from the A League is that you have to finish top three in your group and then win a play-off. If no non-reserve side finishes top three, there's no play-off. I'd say that's enough to allow that a new league side would be selected the same way as Fingal were, TBH.

Or this (http://foot.ie/forums/showthread.php?p=1269612#post1269612).

[Kildareman]

On the First Division promotion thing, remember Sporting Fingal jumped the queue last year when joining the First Division. All the interested/ready A League clubs were asked to apply, and the one with the highest marks or best presentation was promoted. I imagine something similar will see Derry back in the First Division next season to fill the gap created by themselves.




Why dont they get Cork to fill the spot in the First Division and then get applications from the other First Division clubs to fill the then gap in the Premier Division. :D:D

[Mr_Parker]

By what authority was an amnesty offered?

[OneRedArmy]

By what authority was an amnesty offered?
The FAI threatened to withhold registration of the players.

No idea whether they have that power (suspect it wouldn't stand up in Court), but it worked.

[Macy]

It wasn't really an amnesty, rather a threat of more action. The FAI seem to have brought "we didn't know" line though. As I said early, the players can probably whistle for what their owed, so they haven't really walked scot free.

[WoodquayBoy]

It wasn't really an amnesty, rather a threat of more action. The FAI seem to have brought "we didn't know" line though. As I said early, the players can probably whistle for what their owed, so they haven't really walked scot free.
Just watched MNS again last night, and Delaney definitely mentioned the word 'amnesty'

[Macy]

Just watched MNS again last night, and Delaney definitely mentioned the word 'amnesty'
I was going on what was on the news, didn't see MNS, apologies.

[Mr_Parker]

The FAI threatened to withhold registration of the players.

No idea whether they have that power (suspect it wouldn't stand up in Court), but it worked.

It may have 'worked' but is it now still open to a challange?

[eelmonster]

The longer this goes on the more incredible it seems to me, since I fist heard it earlier this week I just can't believe it, in fact I refuse to believe it ... is Pat McDaid really only 32? He looks at least 40.

[Mr A]

The longer this goes on the more incredible it seems to me, since I fist heard it earlier this week I just can't believe it, in fact I refuse to believe it ... is Pat McDaid really only 32? He looks at least 40.

That depends, officially, he's only had enough birthdays to be 32. If you dig a bit though and add in the unofficial birthdays he's actually over 40.

[Mr_Parker]

Derry's new Chairman has now resigned too...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8356761.stm

[pól-dcfc]

Derry's new Chairman has now resigned too...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8356761.stm

Thank christ.

[pineapple stu]

Derry City were expelled from the League of Ireland after the FAI said they broke regulations by holding secondary, unofficial contracts with players.

It is alleged these contracts were used to get round limits on the amount clubs can spend on players wages.
Is this the first time the whole issue has been put as simply as that?

So is this what other clubs can expect if they go over the 65% rule, or is this what other clubs can expect if they try to hide going over the 65% rule?

[John83]

Derry's new Chairman has now resigned too...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8356761.stm
In fairness, he was always going to do that - he only hung on to organise who replaced the board.

[CSFShels]

On the First Division promotion thing, remember Sporting Fingal jumped the queue last year when joining the First Division. All the interested/ready A League clubs were asked to apply, and the one with the highest marks or best presentation was promoted. I imagine something similar will see Derry back in the First Division next season to fill the gap created by themselves
Well no, Fingal didn't jump a queue, they were an equal member of the queue because there had been no previous A League seasons, and they were just one of another entries for the first one.

This time around, there has been a few, and thus Derry are at the bottom of that queue.

[pól-dcfc]

In fairness, he was always going to do that - he only hung on to organise who replaced the board.

In fairness, I don't think you know what you're on about. He said on the radio yesterday that he was determined to stay on. The reaction he got from our fans may have convinced him he wasn't wanted. He's an extremely arrogant man - some of his posts on our forum are utterly disgraceful - and I have no doubt that he thought he would be able to get away with staying on the board. Delaney also said today that he remained a stumbling block.

[John83]

In fairness, I don't think you know what you're on about. He said on the radio yesterday that he was determined to stay on. The reaction he got from our fans may have convinced him he wasn't wanted. He's an extremely arrogant man - some of his posts on our forum are utterly disgraceful - and I have no doubt that he thought he would be able to get away with staying on the board. Delaney also said today that he remained a stumbling block.
Okay, I trust you know what you're talking about - I was under the impression that the board couldn't resign en mass and he was just the last out, but it seems I'm wrong.

[pól-dcfc]

Okay, I trust you know what you're talking about - I was under the impression that the board couldn't resign en mass and he was just the last out, but it seems I'm wrong.

No I think you are partially right. But McCarron is a special kind of *****. He had the arrogance to believe that we would buy his story of being none the wiser about the dodgy contracts.

[John83]

No I think you are partially right. But McCarron is a special kind of *****. He had the arrogance to believe that we would buy his story of being none the wiser about the dodgy contracts.
It seems to me like Derry City's players, officials and PFAI reps all believe something similar.

[pól-dcfc]

It seems to me like Derry City's players, officials and PFAI reps all believe something similar.
Indeed.