The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

[EalingGreen]

EG - I don't know why you insist on tying yourself in knots with strange conjecture and chin-scratching over DCFC.
If I have "tied myself in knots", you haven't demonstrated how. As for my "conjecture" and "chin scratching", pardon me for being interested, or having an opinion...:rolleyes:


The bottom line for City is the same as it is for every other club. We need to be run in-line with our income. As we have consistently had one of the biggest crowds in the league, that should give us a decent shout at silverware (so long as everyone else plays within their means, which appears to be slowly happening).

So ownership of our ground is a complete red herring, and not the source of our problems...

...The bad times for clubs should be on the field - not getting yourself in such a hole that you have to flog your assets to cover your operarting costs. There's only so many times a league ground can be sold/mortgaged.

Live within our means. It really is that simple....No-one, including me, is saying that clubs should not live within their means - that much is a given.

But while a club can never ignore good business practice, football is not like most other businesses - that's why people who have been succesful in 'the real world' are often notably unsuccessful in the unreal world of football. For instance, the demand for "Success Now", even when it conflicts with long-term planning etc, is more marked in football than most environments.
And even where a club sticks rigourously to sound management practices, they can still be knocked off course by events beyond their control.
A good example is Arsenal - arguably the best managed club in the EPL. Their Board, whose members are no longer "wealthy" in modern footballing terms (eg Abramovich), have been desperate to fend off Arab Sheikhs and Yankee Billionaires, who may not have the club's best interests at heart, from taking them over.
Therefore, the whole Highbury/Emirates move was designed to have two elements: 1. The Emirates would double revenues (it has), whilst 2. The profit from the redevelopment of Highbury (which they kept in-house rather than selling to a Developer) would produce a massive capital injection.
Of course, they didn't anticipate the Crash, so that Highbury will now probably just break-even, which is what now makes them vulnerable to Kronke and Ushmanov(sp?).
Anyhow, my point is that even the best-run clubs need capital, with the only difference between eg the EPL and the LOI being the number of noughts on the end.

Unless, of course, Derry is different in that respect, as well as in so many others...:rolleyes:

[John83]

Anyhow, my point is that even the best-run clubs need capital
You haven't proven this at all. The only difference in this league between the clubs who own property and those who don't is that the former sell up when in trouble, and the latter declare bankruptcy and reform.

[passerrby]

I don't buy this. More clubs in the LoI don't own their grounds than do. Sligo's is held in trust (as are several others - Athlone? Monaghan?), Shams, Fingal and Waterford have council-owned grounds, UCD's ground remains the property of the college. Shels have sold theirs, Bohs have sold theirs, Bohs have sold theirs, Cork rent, as do Limerick and Galway (?). Drogheda's is owned by the FAI since a bail-out of old. There was a thread on this a while back.

the grounds are 100% owned by monaghan United.

sorry for ogoing of thread

[sligo23]

http://www.loi.ie/index.php/about/press-office/1299-fai-statement

[Buile Shuibhne]

Do the FAI have to have a specially convened Board meeting to officially bail out Derry?


http://www.loi.ie/index.php/about/press-office/1299-fai-statement?


Did they convene a special Board meeting when Shels went bang in January 2007?

Did they **** - they summarily relegated us and have been riding us rock solid ever since. :mad:

[SMorgan]

Any bail out would have to involve relegation.

[Mr A]

That's some quality self pity right there. Who says they are going to bail them out?

[Buile Shuibhne]

They don't need a board meeting to relegate them or sanction them under the licencing rules?

They're obviously going to do something extraordinary that requires an extraordinary board meeting

[Mr A]

They don't need a board meeting to relegate them or sanction them under the licencing rules?

They're obviously going to do something extraordinary that requires an extraordinary board meeting

Maybe they're going to turn them into rabbits.

[kdjaC]

Maybe they're going to turn them into rabbits.

can we buy tickets or is it blockbookers only ?

[oriel]

Do the FAI have to have a specially convened Board meeting to officially bail out Derry?

Did they convene a special Board meeting when Shels went bang in January 2007?

Did they **** - they summarily relegated us and have been riding us rock solid ever since. :mad:

Shels were indeed treated very harshly then, the example was never followed up to others like Drogs & Cork.

I think the Shels issue was their debts went into high millions rather than 500k +

[Mr A]

It's getting worse:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1105/1224258186469.html


The FAI met with club officials last night and, speaking today, chief executive John Delaney hinted at the seriousness of the issues discussed.

“If we do find a situation where we have been given information that differs from what it should have been, then we will take it very seriously,” he said.

“All I can say at this, points is that there are grave concerns after the meeting that took place last night.”

The club has for some months been engaged in a behind the scenes row with players over unpaid wages. It came to the fore nearly two weeks ago when the squad spoke to local press and claimed they had been told they could leave on free transfers.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Any debt is in breach of the rules. This also (once again) proves the submitting of monthly accounts to be a joke.

[Mr A]

Missed one of the most important bits there:


The decision comes amid growing speculation that there are irregularities in some documentation supplied to the FAI by the club at the start of the season.

[dcfc_1928]

Oh aye - this sounds like a potential bail-out alright!

:rolleyes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2009/1105/1224258186469.html

FAI call meeting over Derry crisis
The FAI has convened an emergency board meeting for Saturday to discuss the future of Derry City.

The decision comes amid growing speculation that there are irregularities in some documentation supplied to the FAI by the club at the start of the season.

The FAI met with club officials last night and, speaking today, chief executive John Delaney hinted at the seriousness of the issues discussed.

“If we do find a situation where we have been given information that differs from what it should have been, then we will take it very seriously,” he said.

“All I can say at this point, is that there are grave concerns after the meeting that took place last night.”

The club has for some months been engaged in a behind the scenes row with players over unpaid wages. It came to the fore nearly two weeks ago when the squad spoke to local press and claimed they had been told they could leave on free transfers.

The club's debts are believed to be upwards of €300,000, while Dungannon Swifts have begun a winding up order of over €30,000 for monies owed following the transfer of Niall McGinn to Celtic.

Derry will finish the 2009 season away to Dundalk tomorrow and amazingly are guaranteed fourth in the league, though they could make third if Cork lose to Galway at Terryland Park.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Is Dortie in this thread, Davy who is registered on Shelsweb because if they are one in the same, i may just fall off my chair laughing?

[Hairy Bowsie]

Missed one of the most important bits there:


Isn't that what done the damage to Rovers and got them a points deduction?

[Mr A]

Methinks this isn't going to end with a 7 point deduction.

[Acornvilla]

Methinks this isn't going to end with a 7 point deduction.
me thinks derry dug a big hole they ar'nt going to get out of i'm afraid

[Aaron]

Methinks Derry City will be no more very soon:(

[Buile Shuibhne]

If the above is the case then maybe the extraordinary meeting is to throw Derry out of the the League of Ireland all-together.

They can be relegated to the 1st Div or the A League under normal licence rules as happened with Shels & Cobh.

Whatever - it promises to be an extraordinary development.

[Acornvilla]

Methinks Derry City will be no more very soon:(
can we have stephen kenny back so? :D

[brendy_éire]

can we have stephen kenny back so? :D

If ye can afford him, aye.

[sonofstan]

Methinks


Methinks


Methinks

Why is everyone on this thread pretending to be Alan Stanford?

[Sam_Heggy]

Why is everyone on this thread pretending to be Alan Stanford?

Methinks it's the latest craze amoungst the "in" kids of late.

[MariborKev]

If people read between the lines on some posts in this thread, the answers are threre.

[dortie]

Is Dortie in this thread, Davy who is registered on Shelsweb because if they are one in the same, i may just fall off my chair laughing?

You are very wrong, and its dortie with a small d !

[cheifo]

Sounds like the voices of reason were patronised and scoffed at.
A familar story with LOI Clubs
The confident front put up in public seems to have been just sheer brazeness and without any logic or substance.
The comparison with the incredibly deluded Iraqi Minister is perhaps overused but very apt.

If I was a Derry fan I would be beyond angry. Also if the voices of reason resist the temptation to say "What have we been trying to ******* well say for the the past whatever Months" then they are better Men than me.

[dcfc1928]

It's been nice knowing you all.

[dcfcsteve]

They don't need a board meeting to relegate them or sanction them under the licencing rules?

They're obviously going to do something extraordinary that requires an extraordinary board meeting

Sounds like our Board (or as many of them as can be arsed to turn up) are going to be tied to a radiator, put under a bright light, and asked to explain the irregularities in our 2009 licensing application that was mentioned in the press article.

If we got our license on false pretences, what's the penalty ? At the very least would have to be instant demotion to D1, with no money for league finish this season (on the basis that we shouldn't have had a premier license).

I sense the saga of our mortally wounded Board may be drawing to a close along with the season itself.

[MariborKev]

I sense the saga of our mortally wounded Board may be drawing to a close along with the season itself.

The board, Wellvan Entreprises and the club itself.

We should, and must, have the book thrown at us.

[dcfc1928]

The board, Wellvan Entreprises and the club itself.

We should, and must, have the book thrown at us.

Well tbh you were saying this for a long time and nobody listened. Do you ever feel like the boy who cried wolf?











Sorry ;)

[dcfcsteve]

The board, Wellvan Entreprises and the club itself.

We should, and must, have the book thrown at us.

The distinction being that DCFC can hopefully live on (albeit in different legal clothes and a different division), whereas Wellvan will be caput.

[MariborKev]

Far from straightforward Steve.

[OneRedArmy]

Question No 1: How is our debt incurred this year a signficant multiple of our "licensed" annual wage bill? Not sure that can be answered with a straight face.

To the Shels posters above dusting off their high horses for some quality moral outrage, I'd say we're guilty of exactly some of the tricks you were guilty of and I doubt we'll get away with a one step demotion. C'est la vie. As Kev says above, we deserve it.

The main problem for the future is that there may be significant legal problems around starting a new vehicle due to the historic exemption to play in the LoI. Although why this wasn't a problem the last two times we went under I'm not entirely sure.

Fun times.

[Ash]

There was a news clip of Delaney on the radio this morning saying the situation is very grave and he hopes Derry can come through it in some division.

Not exact words there but sounded like the minimum punishment will be relegation to Division 1

[pól-dcfc]

Sounds like the voices of reason were patronised and scoffed at.
A familar story with LOI Clubs
The confident front put up in public seems to have been just sheer brazeness and without any logic or substance.
The comparison with the incredibly deluded Iraqi Minister is perhaps overused but very apt.

If I was a Derry fan I would be beyond angry. Also if the voices of reason resist the temptation to say "What have we been trying to ******* well say for the the past whatever Months" then they are better Men than me.
We're angry. If they board have handed in cooked books, or lied to the FAI they need strung up in Guildhall Square. ****ing disgrace.

[Hairy Bowsie]

Derry may well be demoted and there is no doubt (If what the articles say is true) that they deserve it but after the Cork debacle of the last 2 years and they're stilll playing premier football, i'm not going to hold my breath. Also before someone mentions it, i'm not sitting here rubbing my hands at the thought of Derry being demoted.

Maybe, if anything, i'm sitting here rubbing my hands at the thought of the FAI actually following their own rules and carrying out a worthy punishment.

[Buile Shuibhne]

To the Shels posters above dusting off their high horses for some quality moral outrage, I'd say we're guilty of exactly some of the tricks you were guilty of and I doubt we'll get away with a one step demotion. C'est la vie. As Kev says above, we deserve it.




We're just looking for even-handedness from the FAI.

They rightly came down heavy on Shels ((and Cobh), but have not down the same with Cork and Drogs.

We just sense another fudge.

[culloty82]

What sum of money would Derry need to at least get a First Division licence, so they would have some chance of rebuilding like Shelbourne?

[pól-dcfc]

Someone on Radio Foyle said "not even £1million would save Derry City". Dunno how true that is. Public lynching for whoever is behind this mess.

[OneRedArmy]

Derry may well be demoted and there is no doubt (If what the articles say is true) that they deserve it but after the Cork debacle of the last 2 years and they're stilll playing premier football, i'm not going to hold my breath. Also before someone mentions it, i'm not sitting here rubbing my hands at the thought of Derry being demoted.

Maybe, if anything, i'm sitting here rubbing my hands at the thought of the FAI actually following their own rules and carrying out a worthy punishment.


We're just looking for even-handedness from the FAI.

They rightly came down heavy on Shels ((and Cobh), but have not down the same with Cork and Drogs.

We just sense another fudge.I personally think the FAI would've fudged it if they could, as they haven't exactly gone searching for issues at any club, except in this case I believe someone brought something to their attention that they couldn't ignore.

[MariborKev]

Mr A, there will be plenty more craziness for you.


What did I tell you Mr A?

[Mr A]

What did I tell you Mr A?

You told me there'd be more craziness Kev.

[OneRedArmy]

Sounds like the voices of reason were patronised and scoffed at.
A familar story with LOI Clubs
The confident front put up in public seems to have been just sheer brazeness and without any logic or substance.
The comparison with the incredibly deluded Iraqi Minister is perhaps overused but very apt.

If I was a Derry fan I would be beyond angry. Also if the voices of reason resist the temptation to say "What have we been trying to ******* well say for the the past whatever Months" then they are better Men than me.Replace months with years.

Our last filed accounts (2007) were prepared under an almost entirely different board, who resigned en masse and left signing them to the new board.

I didn't believe the wage bill then either.

[Hibs4Ever]

Have heard Derry are relegated and Bray v Drogs will be the play offs. Was apparently on TV3. Can anyone confirm?

[Flume]

Have heard Derry are relegated and Bray v Drogs will be the play offs. Was apparently on TV3. Can anyone confirm?

Also heard this.

[pineapple stu]

Nothing in particular on the internet at the moment (bar Derry being relegated in the GAA); sounds a bit quick for a decision to have been made. Wouldn't be surprised though.

Interesting to look back at the thread on the 2009 licencing - Derry were one of only two or three clubs which the Indo reported had no outstanding issues.

[pineapple stu]

Would relegation be seen as a (relatively) good outcome for Derry, given the alternative is reforming in the A League?

[thischarmingman]

Have done a bit of scouring but can't find anything on those stories. Which isn't to say it isn't true, but there's so many rumours at the moment.

From today's Irish Times


FAI to hold emergency meeting over Derry's future
EMMET MALONE

Fri, Nov 06, 2009

LEAGUE OF IRELAND: THE BOARD of FAI will hold an emergency meeting tomorrow to consider Derry City’s future amid growing concerns about the club’s ability to survive the deepening crisis that has enveloped it.

City have been struggling to meet their financial commitments for some time, with players largely unpaid for the last nine weeks. Other debts have been mounting to the point where, while estimates vary considerably, there appears to be upwards of €300,000 owed in total.

A portion of that is due to Dungannon Swifts, with the Irish League outfit entitled to a percentage of the deal that brought Niall McGinn to Celtic. Having failed to secure their money after a number of attempts, Dungannon recently initiated a court action to have City wound up.

The club’s more immediate problem might centre on the accuracy of financial documentation provided to the FAI over the course of this season. Speaking yesterday at the launch of a licensing system aimed at providing regulation of scouts operating for foreign clubs in Ireland, FAI chief executive John Delaney declined to reveal what had come to light at a meeting on Wednesday evening between officials representing the association and club, but said the matter would be considered by the association last night.

Soon after this meeting finished, it was announced that the board is to be convened tomorrow. The precise agenda was not revealed but Delaney described the state of affairs at the Brandywell as “grave” more than once yesterday before stating that “if we do find a situation where we’ve been given information which differs from what it should have been then we will take it very seriously”.

He provided a hint of just how “seriously” when he said that the matter is likely to be dealt with quickly as it might well have implications for the relegation play-offs.

That would, at the very least require a points deduction of something approaching 20 points although the sense in Abbotstown yesterday was that outright relegation is very much a possibility.

“I want to make it clear that I know what it means to the FAI to have Derry City competing in the league and also what it means to everyone in Derry to be a part of the League of Ireland but I would be really concerned about the meeting that took place last night,” said Delaney. “At this stage I hope that Derry City do survive but in what guise they might survive, I really don’t know.”

Cobh Ramblers were mentioned shortly afterwards and while a direct connection was not made, it was revealed that the FAI is looking at the possibility of appointing an independent, outside chairman to run the club for a period of a year to 18 months in an attempt to help stabilise it after what has been a turbulent spell.

Ramblers dropped out of the First Division last year after failing to lodge the required accounts with the association and amid considerable internal strife.

Cork City also remains a major concern, admitted Delaney, who criticised the “cavalier” manner in which a number of clubs had approached their finances over the last couple of years. He described some of the situations that have arisen this season at the Turner’s Cross outfit as “just rubbish” and said that the club’s problems had had a negative impact on the league generally.

Indeed, such is the seriousness of the situation generally at present that the players’ union, the PFAI, has threatened to go on strike at the start of next season unless the association guarantees more rigorous control over players’ contracts through its licensing system. “We don’t see it having got any better,” said the union’s general secretary, Stephen McGuinness, with regard to the league‘s financial situation.

Meanwhile, Delaney said he expected a deal to be finalised over the next week on the rights to broadcast the second leg of Ireland’s World Cup play-off against France in Paris on November 18th.

Reports yesterday said RTÉ and Sky were well short of the €1.5 million the French Football Federation were seeking for broadcast rights, and that a live broadcast of the game was in doubt.

However, Delaney dismissed this as “commercial posturing”.

Nominations for player of the year: Jason Byrne (Bohemian FC), Raffaele Cretaro (Sligo Rovers), Gary Deegan (Bohemian FC), Brian Shelley (Bohemian FC), Chris Turner (Dundalk), Gary Twigg (Shamrock Rovers).

© 2009 The Irish Times