LOI In Europe 2020

[pineapple stu]

Their attendances are on rsssf - http://www.rsssf.com/tablesw/witr2020.html

They got 500 at some games this season, but I'd say that's because people were staying at home because of covid (or joining in state protests of course)

The government pretended covid didn't exist, but i think people realised otherwise

[sidewayspasser]

Waterford seem to be qualified for the UEFA Youth League, their name appears on UEFA's dates and contenders overview:
https://www.uefa.com/uefayouthleague/news/0264-1108b758096f-67077a6b7198-1000--youth-league-dates-and-contenders/?iv=true

[2 Year Contract]

Waterford seem to be qualified for the UEFA Youth League, their name appears on UEFA's dates and contenders overview:
https://www.uefa.com/uefayouthleague/news/0264-1108b758096f-67077a6b7198-1000--youth-league-dates-and-contenders/?iv=true

Apparently they’ve lodged an appeal with UEFA for Finn Harps and Pats have to go splits on the price of their flights for the away leg given the outrageous injustice the two clubs have inflicted upon Waterford

[pineapple stu]

Dundalk 1-0 down after 10 minutes and they've conceded a foul.

This could be a long night unfortunately. Arsenal looking sharp, and Dundalk gifted them the chance for the opener.

[pineapple stu]

2-1 down now. Flores with a cracker; matches Elnedy's goal a few minutes earlier.

Probably just going to anger Arsenal in fairness, but at least they've scored against them.

[Philosophizer]

Lovely strike by Flores. I missed the first 15 but Dundalk have looked solid from what I've seen. Elneny's strike was unstoppable but Dundalk have had some nice passages of play in an around the arsenal box at times.

[Philosophizer]

Brilliant block from Arsenal prevents an equaliser. We could be going into half time at 2-2. Imagine that!

[joey B]

Enjoyable game with a couple of cracking goals, Dundalk are competing well and had a big chance right before half time....

[DCWA]

Arsenal are such a spineless team. 0-2 up against a League of Ireland should be a case of the flood gates opening really.

Not that we care 1 bit Dundalk have done superbly to come back into this and how good it would’ve been for a 2-2 half time score one having been 2 down.

I fear Gary Rodgers will cost Dundalk 1 second half mind you.

[Philosophizer]

Rogers has played well so far I feel. However his partner in crime Gartland is on now so a clanger could be on the cards.

[ger121]

Dundalk know how to score. If only they could defend they may have picked up some points in this group. Still,better to be in it than not.

[pineapple stu]

Decent performance all told, albeit against an Arsenal reserve side who really underwhelmed for 70 minutes of that match. Probably their best performance of the group tbh.

[pineapple stu]

First time since 1957 an Irish team has scored twice against an English team in Europe. 3-2 defeat for Shamrock Rovers in Old Trafford, having lost 6-0 at home.

[CorribsideSteve]

That was a decent performance. Holding Arsenal to a 4-2 win where they had to work hard to make sure they did enough, is something to be proud of. What a lovely goal by Flores, off his right foot. Dundalk played quite confidently at times, good passing etc, but the same old mistakes of gift wrapping goals for teams continued again tonight. A lazy, no-look clearance from Boyle for Arsenal's first, and he was raging with himself, and he wasn't the only one. Nothing to be done about Elneny's goal. Overall, I was happy that they still plugged away at 4-1, which I thought was a little harsh on them, trying to do the right things, and got their just rewards of an excellently headed 2nd goal from Hoare. Shields did well again, passing well. Rogers made a couple of decent saves also. Overall, even though it wasn't their strongest team, they were just too good for Dundalk. The massive what-if of the night was the glorious chance right before half-time to make it 2-2. Though I feel Arsenal would have pulled away anyhow. Would love to have seen Oduwa cause havoc and potential penalty kick mayhem as a sub for the last 10 minutes, but I presume he's injured? Still, no shame whatsoever. They can be pleased with many things about this campaign, but plenty to learn from too.
Also, with events unfolding elsewhere in the Europa League, three teams finished bottom, and with zero points; Dundalk, Ludogorets, and Gent. A 3-1 defeat for Ludogorets against LASK means they and not Dundalk finish up as the absolute worst team in this season's competition, with a -12 goal difference. Dundalk and Gent finished joint-second last with goal differences of -11. Silver linings!

[ger121]

So ends another season in Europe and I must say it has to go down as a rather successful one. No side went out easily in the qualifying rounds, with lots of good performances along the way. A 3rd Group Stage qualification in 9 years was a real bonus. Not bad for a Country with no League. Imagine what we could do if we actually had any money!

[EalingGreen]

First time since 1957 an Irish team has scored twice against an English team in Europe. 3-2 defeat for Shamrock Rovers in Old Trafford, having lost 6-0 at home.
Not exactly correct:

https://www.citytilidie.com/latest/linfield-away-european-cup-winners-cup-1st-round-2nd-leg-197071/

http://www.eurocupshistory.com/match/5103/carrick_rangers_vs_southampton/

(Never any harm in reminding the Bluenoses where they come from :D)

[pineapple stu]

Oops! You're spot on.

Never knew Linfield beat Man City back in the day

[pineapple stu]

Wiki has Waterford in the Youth League as well now. Draw on 27th Jan, with first round on 3rd March, covid permitting

[oriel]

Not exactly correct:

https://www.citytilidie.com/latest/linfield-away-european-cup-winners-cup-1st-round-2nd-leg-197071/

http://www.eurocupshistory.com/match/5103/carrick_rangers_vs_southampton/

(Never any harm in reminding the Bluenoses where they come from :D)

That is one that escaped me too, tremendous result that for Linfield in 1970, plus City had won the league too not too long before this. So this has to be the only time a team from North or South has beaten an English team in Europe? Some going.

[EatYerGreens]

That is one that escaped me too, tremendous result that for Linfield in 1970, plus City had won the league too not too long before this. So this has to be the only time a team from North or South has beaten an English team in Europe? Some going.

Bohs beating TNS and Derry beating Gretna technically count as wins over English clubs in Europe :)

[oriel]

It would only they are Welsh and Scottish sides !!! We can probably add Bohs in though as one of the most significant wins v UK side, the 2-1 win away to Aberdeen (lost on agg) was very impressive. The 3-2 win at home v Rangers in mid 80's was another notable result.

Dundalk were unbeaten at home from 1976-82 (missed one season not qualifying but on many played two rounds), had some notable results, mostly draws and at home including, PSV, Celtic, Porto and Spurs, one big win Hajduk Split (77) - but hammered away in second leg, so only one significant win really in that period, although played in 3 rounds* in 1979, and that was the old EC.

*On that I read earlier in the year, no Irish team had played in 4 consecutive rounds until 2020, (completely open to correction on this) when Dundalk again did it, fortunate draws maybe, and all one legs, Celje Slovenia / Inter Andora / Sheriff Moldova / KI of Faroes, won 2 mind, and the easier ones, but still think Sheriff being the much higher ranked team was a great feat winning that on pens.

[pineapple stu]

It would only they are Welsh and Scottish sides !!!
Well the point is both TNS and Gretna are based in England.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Gretna is in Scotland isn’t it?

[pineapple stu]

Oh you're right actually. They used to play in England, which is the confusion.

So that just leaves TNS as the last English team an Irish side scored twice against in Europe.

[oriel]

Well the point is both TNS and Gretna are based in England.

That's a fair point I suppose on TNS, but Gretna is near Dunfries on the Scottish border, unless they like Gretna play 'over the border', but for the Euro game v Derry, I think the game was played at a bigger SPL ground.

[DCSIL]

That's a fair point I suppose on TNS, but Gretna is near Dunfries on the Scottish border, unless they like Gretna play 'over the border', but for the Euro game v Derry, I think the game was played at a bigger SPL ground.

Gretna v Derry was played at Fir Park, Motherwell.

[EatYerGreens]

It would only they are Welsh and Scottish sides !!!

My bad on Gretna. Their previous career in English football threw me.

TNS is definitely an English-side playing in Wales. Swansea don't suddenly stop being Welsh just because they play their football in the English pyramid ;)

[Nesta99]

Gretna v Derry was played at Fir Park, Motherwell.

Dont care about the what. where. or why, that was the most satisfying game to watch!

[bohsmug]

It would only they are Welsh and Scottish sides !!! We can probably add Bohs in though as one of the most significant wins v UK side, the 2-1 win away to Aberdeen (lost on agg) was very impressive. The 3-2 win at home v Rangers in mid 80's was another notable result.



*Bohs knocked Aberdeen out of 2000/01 UEFA Cup. The two away goals were enough.

Doesn't really add anything to the discussion but couldn't see it written down without the urge to correct it. The return leg in Tolka, holding out with 10 men is one of the great Bohs nights.

[ger121]

It would only they are Welsh and Scottish sides !!! We can probably add Bohs in though as one of the most significant wins v UK side, the 2-1 win away to Aberdeen (lost on agg) was very impressive. The 3-2 win at home v Rangers in mid 80's was another notable result.

Dundalk were unbeaten at home from 1976-82 (missed one season not qualifying but on many played two rounds), had some notable results, mostly draws and at home including, PSV, Celtic, Porto and Spurs, one big win Hajduk Split (77) - but hammered away in second leg, so only one significant win really in that period, although played in 3 rounds* in 1979, and that was the old EC.

*On that I read earlier in the year, no Irish team had played in 4 consecutive rounds until 2020, (completely open to correction on this) when Dundalk again did it, fortunate draws maybe, and all one legs, Celje Slovenia / Inter Andora / Sheriff Moldova / KI of Faroes, won 2 mind, and the easier ones, but still think Sheriff being the much higher ranked team was a great feat winning that on pens.

Bohs won on away goals vs Aberdeen.
Shels played 4 rounds in 2004.

[EalingGreen]

TNS is definitely an English-side playing in Wales. Swansea don't suddenly stop being Welsh just because they play their football in the English pyramid ;)
Not exactly.

The club was originally formed as Llansantffraid F.C i.e. a Welsh club, located in the tiny village of Llansantffraid-ym-Mechain and playing in the Welsh system (obviously). It was then re-named TNS, after club sponsors Total Network Solutions, a company based in Oswestry, just a few miles away over the border in England.

TNS then merged with Oswestry Town FC, and the new club started playing at Oswestry Town's ground, making them "English". Except that Oswestry Town had always played in the League of Wales!

Meanwhile, when Total Network Solutions were taken over by BT, the club had to get a new name, eventually choosing The New Saints, partly to retain the initials, but also because Llansantffraid F.C were always known as "The Saints".

The club badge also seemed designed to keep both sets of fans on side:

https://duckduckgo.com/i/def56044.png

Probably best to consider them "Anglo-Welsh", thereby ****ing off fans on both sides of the border!

[EalingGreen]

Meanwhile, Chester FC's Deva stadium lies on the border between England and Wales; the border runs along the rear of the east stand (the main stand) with the pitch itself located over the border in Flintshire. However, the ground's address is officially classed as being in England due to the location of the club's offices.

They had to postpone a game a couple of weeks back because despite it meeting English Covid regulations, the Welsh regulations were stricter, meaning the pitch wasn't compliant!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deva_Stadium#/map/0

[oriel]

Very interesting that EG, I stayed in Chester a good few times, knew it was very close to Wales, never knew (as per that map), that a small part (SW area) of the City was actually in Wales by geography at least!

[pineapple stu]

I remember when I was briefly there a few years back being pointed to a bridge which marked the border. If you lived on the Welsh side, you could get free prescription meds, but if you're on the English side (which could be the next street over), you'd have to pay in the same pharmacy.

There's a football pitch called Zerao ("zero") in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zer%C3%A3o) where one half is in the northern hemisphere and the other half is in the southern hemisphere. The half-way line is on the equator. (Although wiki, annoyingly, says they didn't measure it correctly and are about 50m out...)

[EatYerGreens]

Not exactly.

The club was originally formed as Llansantffraid F.C i.e. a Welsh club, located in the tiny village of Llansantffraid-ym-Mechain and playing in the Welsh system (obviously). It was then re-named TNS, after club sponsors Total Network Solutions, a company based in Oswestry, just a few miles away over the border in England.

TNS then merged with Oswestry Town FC, and the new club started playing at Oswestry Town's ground, making them "English". Except that Oswestry Town had always played in the League of Wales!

Meanwhile, when Total Network Solutions were taken over by BT, the club had to get a new name, eventually choosing The New Saints, partly to retain the initials, but also because Llansantffraid F.C were always known as "The Saints".

The club badge also seemed designed to keep both sets of fans on side:

https://duckduckgo.com/i/def56044.png

Probably best to consider them "Anglo-Welsh", thereby ****ing off fans on both sides of the border!

I know all about the club's history. The 'New Saints' was a nod not just to Llansantffraid but to both towns, as Oswestry was named after St Oswald (''Oswald's Tree'). Oswestry itself was once in Wales, and some of the street names in the town are in the Welsh language (i.e. their names 'in English' that is - not just that they're bilingual signs).

Oswestry Town FC only played in the Welsh system for a few years prior to merging with TNS. They played in various English leagues for decades prior to that, covering the vast majority of their existence. A couple of Oswestry clubs playing in England have formed and folded since the merger (the latest - FC Oswestry Town- folding only very recently)

The bottom line is that they're based in and play out of a town in England. So they're an English club, regardless of their original heritage.

[EatYerGreens]

I remember when I was briefly there a few years back being pointed to a bridge which marked the border. If you lived on the Welsh side, you could get free prescription meds, but if you're on the English side (which could be the next street over), you'd have to pay in the same pharmacy.

There's a football pitch called Zerao ("zero") in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zer%C3%A3o) where one half is in the northern hemisphere and the other half is in the southern hemisphere. The half-way line is on the equator. (Although wiki, annoyingly, says they didn't measure it correctly and are about 50m out...)

Chester's walls were originally Roman built, but then added to by the Anglo-Saxons to keep the Welsh at bay.

Did anyone tell you the old story about it being legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow inside Chester's walls after dark ? :)

[Nesta99]

Chester's walls were originally Roman built, but then added to by the Anglo-Saxons to keep the Welsh at bay.

Did anyone tell you the old story about it being legal to shoot a Welshman with a bow and arrow inside Chester's walls after dark ? :)

Is that still on the statutes? Id love to have seen that tested in the courts;)

[EalingGreen]

The bottom line is that [Derry City are] based in and play out of a town in [the United Kingdom]. So they're [a British] club, regardless of their original heritage.



The bottom line is that [Glasgow Celtic are] based in and play out of a town in [the United Kingdom]. So they're [a British] club, regardless of their original heritage.
Good luck with those ones... :)

[EalingGreen]

Is that still on the statutes? Id love to have seen that tested in the courts;)
More here: http://www.chester.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Shoot_the_Welsh

I've heard tell of a similar "law" giving the Welsh similar rights over the English on their side of the border, but can't find a reference. (Could be wrong, mind)

[DCWA]

There are clubs based in America/Australia that consider themselves firmly Serbian/Croatian/Macedonian/Italian/Polish etc I think if you try and view a clubs nationality or
identity firmly through a black and white lens almost like a footballing bureaucrat the you are depriving yourself of one of the most joyous, interesting and significant facets of football as a world game. I hope I should never in my life feel so entitled as to tell a football club and those involved with what nationality they are.

[Nesta99]

Thankfully the GFA helps with this argument in the Derry City circumstance by redefining the state as the people rather than a patch of land, semantics maybe but we know how important presentation is in N.I. In other examples I would see (historical) cultural identity as different from (current) nationality. Notre Dame may call themselves the fighting Irish but they're are firmly American collegiate teams in every way, Glasgow Celtic - Scottish, Cork City - nowhere thats not Cork...

[Nesta99]

More here: http://www.chester.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Shoot_the_Welsh

I've heard tell of a similar "law" giving the Welsh similar rights over the English on their side of the border, but can't find a reference. (Could be wrong, mind)

Its amusing either way and there are others, but I thought there was a sweeping bill that removed all archaic laws from the statutes but maybe it was here and not in the UK.

[EalingGreen]

In response to EYG's (imo simplistic) assertion that The New Saints are just an English club which happens to play in Wales, I might equally have claimed eg that John Aldridge was just an Englishman who happened to play for ROI (or Ray Houghton a Scot etc).

Fact is, UEFA really do not like clubs playing outside of their (geographical) Association's territory, since it opens up a whole can of worms. However, they are sometimes prepared to make exceptions. With TNS, it was out of respect for their obvious Welsh heritage; with Cardiff/Swansea/Newport/Merthyr it was because they had always played in the English system long before there even was a League of Wales; and with Derry City/LOI it was what you might call force majeure (civil unrest).

[Neish]

In response to EYG's (imo simplistic) assertion that The New Saints are just an English club which happens to play in Wales, I might equally have claimed eg that John Aldridge was just an Englishman who happened to play for ROI (or Ray Houghton a Scot etc).

.

You can say that as its a fact, nothing wrong with it but Aldridge was English and Houghton was Scottish.

[EalingGreen]

You can say that as its a fact, nothing wrong with it but Aldridge was English and Houghton was Scottish.Of course they were.

But you cannot/should not ignore their Irish heritage which entitled them to play for ROI.

Whereas EYG wanted to ignore completely The New Saints' clear Welsh heritage which entitles them to play in the Welsh League.

[Nesta99]

Its a correct argument but heritage allowed them to take Irish citizenship as required so its more than heritage that saw them able to play for Ireland as English or Scottish. To base things entirely on heritage then Glasgow Celtic are entitled to play in the Ireland Leagues. I understand the point being made but its a lot more convoluted in general.

[EalingGreen]

Its a correct argument but heritage allowed them to take Irish citizenship as required so its more than heritage that saw them able to play for Ireland as English or Scottish. To base things entirely on heritage then Glasgow Celtic are entitled to play in the Ireland Leagues. I understand the point being made but its a lot more convoluted in general.
I'm not basing things "entirely on heritage", rather I was contradicting EYG when he completely ignored/dismissed TNS's Welsh heritage.

But now you mention them, Celtic have rather less "Irish" in them than TNS have "Welsh".

Perhaps you meant Hibernian? :wink:

https://foot.ie/threads/11886-Hibernian-FC-and-there-place-in-Irish-History

[Nesta99]

Meh, Ive never followed Scottish football in any great detail bar some minor curiosity with the antics of the native and non native following of the Old Firm. I was college with a chap from Arbroath so kept an eye out there but generally and entirely unfairly to the rest of Scottish football I saw it as toxic especially when most often on this Island the team picked to support was based on your religion. I dont think you can ever really dismiss the heritage of a club even as it evolves. Dundalk recognise the railway heritage of the club even though its not far off a century since there was any connection. It can be a minefield when looking at the foundation of some clubs and how they and support evolved be they English-Welsh border clubs, Scottish or Irish or British.

I wonder do many Irish 'republican/nationalist' Arsenal supporters revile the whole poppy thing but yet don the club jersey regularly. How many clubs supported widely have a British military heritage that is conveniently airbrushed out, but similar would not happen if there was some Irish connection to their founding for example? Football origins had a triadic intertwined relationship of military, monarchy, and church - mainly Anglican (social, political, and cultural identities in other terms) so to cherry pick aspects of clubs' various heritage is a folly imo. especially when used to express some aspect of contemporary identity. Much easier to stick with the Irishman that saved Barcelona!. For much of the 1970s GSTQ and Abide with me, were drowned out by the crowd at FA Cup Finals such was the disconnect between fans and national identity. Started to shift again post Falklands War, and now almost all the ceremonial bits to the game are military rather than civilian in nature. A bit random above but some football fans almost rabid support and hatred for rival clubs can be filled with irony or just be baffling! (not suggesting it has happened here, just a general thing when considering some of the Irish support of British clubs mainly).

[EatYerGreens]

Of course they were.

But you cannot/should not ignore their Irish heritage which entitled them to play for ROI.

Whereas EYG wanted to ignore completely The New Saints' clear Welsh heritage which entitles them to play in the Welsh League.

Is that so...?


So they're an English club, regardless of their original heritage.

Strange to be accused of ignoring something that you've specifically referenced ;)

[EatYerGreens]

There are clubs based in America/Australia that consider themselves firmly Serbian/Croatian/Macedonian/Italian/Polish etc I think if you try and view a clubs nationality or
identity firmly through a black and white lens almost like a footballing bureaucrat the you are depriving yourself of one of the most joyous, interesting and significant facets of football as a world game. I hope I should never in my life feel so entitled as to tell a football club and those involved with what nationality they are.

There's also a President in America who thinks he won an election he didn't ;) Americans are the worst for this type of 'fluid' identity tbh. You meet one who tells you "Hey - I'm Irish !", before revealing that they think their great granny was from Cork or somewhere a couple of hundred years ago.

America and Australia are 90+% immigrant nations. Almost everyone there came from somewhere else, so all have alternative heritages (and most multiple-alternative heritages). But there is a difference between where you're actually, legally and factually from and where you may choose to identify with.