LOI In Europe 2020

[The Lilywhites]

I don't share your pessimism Nesta! A lot depends on how FG decides to approach this match. If he picks a first choice team and goes for it, then it should be a cracker (although he has plenty of choice as the squad is hardly small). It's also a test of character for Rovers, although i'ts really a free shot for them - even a defeat for them will have little impact on their title challenge.

That all said, we have bigger fish to fry and need to prioritise Thursday's match

I'd expect him to play a bit of a mixture. When was the last time we were 6/1 at home?!

[oriel]

Did you just read the first line of my post? As I mentioned the €260k solidarity payment in the next line! We don't get that if we make the EL groups (it's a payment for not making either UEFA group stage).

If we lose on Thursday we end up with a pot of almost €1.4m (€820k + €560k) but currently we've banked €820k. We get the €560k only if we lose on Thursday.

That €560k figure disappears if we win and we get the €2.92m payment for the group stage, bringing our total winnings to €3.7m.

Actually, it seems we both might be wrong, I think the €2.92 payment, IF we win on Thursday is just the base figure for EL group qualification and this would be in addition to monies already won.

EDIT - I did indeed miss your line on the €260k solidarity payment

[oriel]

Ah would you stop. I certainly don't think there was anything in that match which justifies anyone saying "Dundalk should have won it in 90". What article said that - the Dundalk website or the Democrat? Plenty here have said Dundalk weren't great as well. They were better than against Celje, yes, but the shyness in front of goal was still there.

Yes, Rogers didn't have a serious save to make - but then I'm not suggesting Sheriff should have won it in 90. As I said, I thought it was a poor match between two poor teams.

Like, I get that watching the game as a Dundalk fan is a different experience from watching the game as a neutral - especially when the result probably means the lights get kept on for another couple of years. And it was a great result - I've said that before. But let's leave out the shocked uproar whenever someone suggests that the performance wasn't much. A bit of objectivity can't hurt.

Still do not agree, and I am the first to be critical on poor DFC performances, for example loads saying the result v Slovenian side was 'never a 3-0 defeat', yes it was we looked terrible on most occasions they attacked.

Contrast that to Sheriff game, Dundalk were clearly the better side for most of the first half, passing and moving better from 15 mins on, and finished far stronger. The second half wasn't too good to watch, only a few decent moves by Dlk, and to be fair they had some dangerous attacks, but neither GK was seriously tested in that second period.

Dundalk still to hit the previous seasons euro consistency, but last Thurs was certainly one of the better performances, with obv more improvement needed.

[pineapple stu]

Still do not agree
I'm not asking you to agree. I still don't agree with your post either. Which is fine.

All I'm really asking is that a comment of "Dundalk weren't great" is met with a bit of debate rather than just offended incredulousness.

What articles did you read saying Dundalk deserved to win over 90 btw?

[The Lilywhites]

Actually, it seems we both might be wrong, I think the €2.92 payment, IF we win on Thursday is just the base figure for EL group qualification and this would be in addition to monies already won.

EDIT - I did indeed miss your line on the €260k solidarity payment

The €2.92m would be in addition to the money already won (€820k) yep, so €3.7m in total.

[Nesta99]

The performance was with the context for recent form. If we had performed like Thurday against any of the likes of Alkmarr, St Petersburg, even KR well we'd unlikely to have pushed them too much. This was a classic example of a team that was low in convidence and then started to realise the rep of who they were playing wasnt all that much. We then after the rocky start settled in and did was needed without being spectacular. There seems a bit of a steeliness in not self imploding, passed the ball pretty well and at a bit more pace than we have seen this season. Hoban may not have excelled up front but he certainly made a nuisance of himself, tracked deep, played out of tight situations and kept possession. I though the Kelly chance was heading in 2nd half but was at the keeper. A few cutbacks that would have been great chances if players were running from deep - A bit more composure with the cutback and midfield gambling more too and getting in to the box. Im not convinced the keeper was fouled for Sloggets goal, and more that he flapped and jumped in to Hoban. But playing well within ability and still progressing is a positive sign. We are rebuilding the ethos of how we play with new ideas/formations. Players were rotated too so the squad is being used better now so far. Obviously a work in progress but obvious progress is being made. Once again though, like v Inter, the expectation and pressure is back on us v KI irrrespective of how things might be actually as opposed to on paper playing a Farose side. The pressure is very much on that we should be supremely confident of winning and making the groups again. Not a forgone conclusion by any means. As a club with ambitions to compete in Europe this is a must win game!

[oriel]

I'm not asking you to agree. I still don't agree with your post either. Which is fine.

All I'm really asking is that a comment of "Dundalk weren't great" is met with a bit of debate rather than just offended incredulousness.

What articles did you read saying Dundalk deserved to win over 90 btw?

Christ, let it go with you, don't agree with me then, I think I`ll be ok with that.

Plenty of other reports and outside Dundalk would have provided the opinion that we deserved to win the game in 90.

[pineapple stu]

No need for the huff giving you started by jumping down my throat here.

Show us one or two of these reports though?

[Nesta99]

Football analysis is always subjective. Thursdays game had both teams on top for spells. On the balance of things we were better and that we went through, after conceding, is proof enough. It was workman like by Dundalk and did hold on to the ball better. Surprisingly Sherriff werent that composed in possession and rushed chances in the final third. But I think part of that was how we pressed the ball as well as we have done in a long time. Bot sides did have chances, and good ones, that on another night changes the outcome. At least there wasnt any element of good/bad luck, referrering decision or embaressing clanger that determined the result.

Anyone who'd enjoy a pop at Dundalk could have great fun by Thursday night considering the opportunity to make groups stages with a Faroese team up next. Sherriff seemed a bit like a free hit where a loss wouldnt have been a surprise. This week is a different story. Playing Rovers Sunday is as good a prep as there is imo.

[pineapple stu]

FWIW, over the course of this I've generally found your analysis to be excellent Nesta

(Where "excellent" means "closely agreeing with what I think" of course :) )

I would argue though that the result itself was a draw, so that Dundalk went through doesn't necessarily show they were better. (Except at penalties. Which they were better at)

[Nesta99]

I don't share your pessimism Nesta! A lot depends on how FG decides to approach this match. If he picks a first choice team and goes for it, then it should be a cracker (although he has plenty of choice as the squad is hardly small). It's also a test of character for Rovers, although i'ts really a free shot for them - even a defeat for them will have little impact on their title challenge.

That all said, we have bigger fish to fry and need to prioritise Thursday's match

Your faith in the teams has been well founded so far so I hope you are right. I am still not sure whether players being rested (unless carrying knocks) is always the best. Its not like a Friday/Tuesday/Friday/Monday type schedule that we endured in the past. Shields will start Sunday with his suspension but its also an opportunity to get another player primed for playing his role for the Thursday.

Are groups stage games to be completed before Christmas? Or, if we beat KI, could we have the novelty of European football post Christmas.

[Nesta99]

FWIW, over the course of this I've generally found your analysis to be excellent Nesta

(Where "excellent" means "closely agreeing with what I think" of course :) )

I would argue though that the result itself was a draw, so that Dundalk went through doesn't necessarily show they were better. (Except at penalties. Which they were better at)

There is no argument, the result of the match was a draw and a peno shootout was won by Dundalk. They were a cool set of penalties which is testament to players own individual self belief. Bar Hoare smashing down the middle, Im not sure than any of the other penos would have been stopped even if the keep went the right way.

Meh UCD are nothing but the leagues feeder club :p

[oriel]

Careful now you too, Nesta and PS, any more of this and it will be moving into 'get a room' territory !

[pineapple stu]

Meh UCD are nothing but the leagues feeder club :p
Usually the title winner's feeder club though.

And our feeding has changed lately :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Usually the title winner's feeder club though.

And our feeding has changed lately :)
Always knew you weren't really biased against MY club, Stu.

[pineapple stu]

Ha! I've had that there for years. I don't know how many clubs I've been accused of being biased against - Shels, Fingal, Bohs, Drogheda anyway. Dundalk now. Probably more. Probably Rovers at some stage. It's a standard response from an awful lot of fans - say something remotely negative about their club and rather than engage in discussion, they just accuse you of bias instead. I guess it's a foot.ie tradition at this stage.

[Nesta99]

You left out Harps!

[pineapple stu]

That's just how biased against Harps I am - I didn't want to give them the satisfaction of a mention :p

[DCSIL]

You left out Harps!

That’s Sbgawa’s Department... Ollie Horgan could Trip up the Opposing manager on the touchline and it would be “Great Tactical Awareness” :D

[oriel]

What articles did you read saying Dundalk deserved to win over 90 btw?

Sorry missed this, two random reports for you and there are probably more, back page of Sun Indo today, Eamonn Sweeney, and Alan Cawley on Game on - Fri, both said Dundalk deserved to win in 90 mins.

[oriel]

I noticed yesterday, Dundalk have a coefficient of 10.00 now, so this Thurs becomes even more important now, as I think the 2016 figures will be wiped in 2021 (along with all other clubs, 5 year limit?).

EDIT: Rovers are on 4.75, by this years cut-off that might not be enough to get seeded in CL next year.

For all, will be interesting what 2021 fig will be, as in our case it could be a significant, as 3.0 was earned in 2016 I think. Then again progression this year should counter that.

[pineapple stu]

Sorry missed this, two random reports for you and there are probably more, back page of Sun Indo today, Eamonn Sweeney, and Alan Cawley on Game on - Fri, both said Dundalk deserved to win in 90 mins.
I can't see either of those.

FWIW, the Irish Times (https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/dundalk-win-sheriff-shoot-out-to-move-within-sight-of-3m-europa-league-bounty-1.4364073) said Dundalk "weren’t remotely out of their depth", the Sun (https://www.thesun.ie/sport/5944010/dundalk-penalty-shootout-win-europa-league/) says Dundalk were "marginally the better side for the remaining 112 minutes of action" (having already gone 1-0 down of course) and nowhere really says that Dundalk deserved to win after 90. "A winning goal in normal time looked more likely to come from Dundalk" is as close as either get to saying Dundalk deserved to win, but they're not remotely the same thing of course.

So all I'm saying is your suggestion that my view is "remarkable" is a long way off. It's not even unique on this thread FFS.

[oriel]

That's fine, I`m not asking for your approval, go out and buy the Sun Indo and listen to the Game On Podcast, its really not that hard.

[pineapple stu]

I'd rather not have to tbh. It's why I asked for a link (and gabe some of my own)

It's not really that important to me tbh.

That said, given the Sunday Indo wasn't out when you made your comment, and listening to the radio isn't reading an article, I am slightly confused as to what brought about your original comment.

But anyway. To Thursday

[oriel]

Me too, lets move on.

More important things out there to discuss / worried about.

[EatYerGreens]

Is it just me, or are Dundalk fans starting to become insufferable at this stage ? :p

[ontheotherhand]

A few are brutal but Nesta and oriel usually post an honest take.

[DCSIL]

If We are Rovers is on, will RTE be getting UK rights to the Dundalk game Thursday?

[EatYerGreens]

If We are Rovers is on, will RTE be getting UK rights to the Dundalk game Thursday?

Why would RTE want UK rights ?

Surely that would have to be negotiated and bought in addition to the Irish rights ?

[DCSIL]

Why would RTE want UK rights ?

Put the Barstool Patroit away for a minute. They did so for the Rovers - Milan game so UK Viewers could watch it on Player.

[Nesta99]

Maybe this has been posted but it potentially eases the drop off of the 2016 season. I know Berts site is the go to standard but this from uefa.com seems handy for some of us mere mortals that co-efficients are complex math. The ammendment for single leg ties softens the landing a bit even if eliminated Thursday. So (to me anyway) the ammendment seems to say the minimum Dundalk will gain is 3*** co-eff points - progressing on penos already and (hopefully not) losing to KI. Which would be the same as making the group stages and losing every game if it was a normal season?? Not to focus entirely on the financial beneits of progression. It says nothing about what happens if the group stages are made mind! Though I may have completely missed something and have it ars@ways!? It seems too generous...unless it is only referring to the latter stage knockouts. Not clear on that though.

UEFA Europa League points system
Preliminary round elimination – 0.5 points
First qualifying round elimination – 1 point
Second qualifying round elimination – 1.5 points
Third qualifying round elimination – 2 points
Play-off elimination – 2.5 points
Group stage win – 2 points
Group stage draw – 1 point
Clubs are guaranteed a minimum of three points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final.
* Penalty shoot-outs do not affect the calculation system.

2019/20 addendum
For matches originally foreseen to be two legs (home and away) but reduced to a single leg, the calculation of coefficient points per match will be adapted as follows:

▪ Three points for a win (in regular time or extra time)
▪ Two points to each team for a draw (after extra time)
▪ One point for a loss (in regular time or extra time)

***I forgot about the Inter game so is that now 2 wins banked (one win on penos at 2pts, one win in normal time at 3pts) if we exit Thursday (minimum of 1 pt if losing in normal time), accumulated already....Im confused! It cant apply to groups games unless the plan is to play 1 round of games. Unless the W/D/L points are different this season for groups games but then why consider ET... anybody able to clear this up for me like it being explained to a 4 year old!?:o

[holidaysong]

Maybe this has been posted but it potentially eases the drop off of the 2016 season. I know Berts site is the go to standard but this from uefa.com seems handy for some of us mere mortals that co-efficients are complex math. The ammendment for single leg ties softens the landing a bit even if eliminated Thursday. So (to me anyway) the ammendment seems to say the minimum Dundalk will gain is 3 co-eff points - progressing on penos already and (hopefully not) losing. Which would be the same as making the group stages and losing every game if it was a normal season?? Not to focus entirely on the financial beneits of progression. It says nothing about what happens if the group stages are made mind! Though I may have completely missed something and have it ars@ways!?

UEFA Europa League points system
Preliminary round elimination – 0.5 points
First qualifying round elimination – 1 point
Second qualifying round elimination – 1.5 points
Third qualifying round elimination – 2 points
Play-off elimination – 2.5 points
Group stage win – 2 points
Group stage draw – 1 point
Clubs are guaranteed a minimum of three points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final.
* Penalty shoot-outs do not affect the calculation system.


I've highlighted the two key points here. Individual match results do not influence club coefficient in qualification. Club coefficient is qualification is determined by where you get to / exit. If we lose Thursday, we'll be on 2.5. Win and we will be on a minimum of 3.





2019/20 addendum
For matches originally foreseen to be two legs (home and away) but reduced to a single leg, the calculation of coefficient points per match will be adapted as follows:

▪ Three points for a win (in regular time or extra time)
▪ Two points to each team for a draw (after extra time)
▪ One point for a loss (in regular time or extra time)

***I forgot about the Inter game so is that now 2 wins banked if we exit Thursday, accumulated already....Im confused!

All of this part then relates to points you gain from the group stage onwards.

The points adjustments here are for the knockout stages of the 2019/20 tournaments and not the qualification stages of the 2020/21 tournaments.

Long story short, you're adding last season adjusted point scoring in the tournament regular to this season's qualification rounds. This isn't relevant for where we are at right now.

[Nesta99]

Ahhh! Makes sense now, apologies. Dose of wishful thinking and not reading what season it was referring to - 2020 kinda just has disappeared! Thanks HS!!

[pateen]

Anyone know if the match is available in the Uk via Rte?

[Seagull]

Does anyone know if Dundalk are printing a programme for Thursday's game or is it an online publication only?

[oriel]

Double post

[oriel]

Does anyone know if Dundalk are printing a programme for Thursday's game or is it an online publication only?

No print ones have been published since Covid, all have been online, and a nice complimentary addtion for Patreon members too !

I would imagine same for Thursday, unless Uefa rules state print one has to be in place, haven't heard anyhting about this though, so Id still say online only.

[oriel]

Anyone know if the match is available in the Uk via Rte?

The Dundalk game v Slovenia side was available in RTE in NI, so I would imagine this will be too. Pretty sure it was also available in GB, as had a mate over there and almost sure he saw it.

[pineapple stu]

Can't imagine UEFA rules require a programme; they're very much a British/Irish thing and are often not seen on the continent.

[Martinho II]

Can't imagine UEFA rules require a programme; they're very much a British/Irish thing and are often not seen on the continent.

That explains why when we were in Vaduz in 04 UEFA Cup they only produced a four page teamsheet as such!

[The Lilywhites]

There'll be a print run on Thursday's game but don't think it's a UEFA requirement.

[Ezeikial]

Ki manager Mikkjal Thomassen

https://soundcloud.com/niall-newberry/mikkjal-thomassen-ki-klaksvik-manager-september-29th-2020

[pineapple stu]

Good news for Waterford - Ukrainian youth champions Dinamo Kyiv qualified for the CL groups this evening. Means they need just one more side to do that double and Waterford will be in the Youth League (says wiki anyway)

It looks like it's the unconfirmed underage league winners which will decide (Switzerland, Austria and Portugal)

[paul_oshea]

Sounds like the LOI heads:

"Some people are worried that it will ruin the competitiveness of the Faroese League in the next five to 10 years. The money would blow every team out of the water.

"Everybody is looking at the money and I think that is a little sad. It’s a massive opportunity for Faroese football to grow, and same for Dundalk, it’s a chance to grow and a once in a lifetime opportunity."

[geysir]

The BBC sport european section has done a feature on Klaksvik (https://www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/54345231) and KI.

Dundalk have been outminnowed.

[holidaysong]

Yet another media outlet repeating the mistruth that they overcame Slovan. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[The Lilywhites]

Yet another media outlet repeating the mistruth that they overcame Slovan. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Thankfully we don't have to listen to Brian Kerr on RTÉ tomorrow night (although Johnny McDonnell mightn't be much better).

Kerr was going on last week about their 3-0 win over Slovan, and also that Filippo lost his first game in Sligo.

Kerr is a bit like Johnny Giles at this stage. An eejit who Dubs seem to love. Time to retire - not that he will as he's getting a handy wage and just wings it.

[holidaysong]

Alan Cawley and Stuey Byrne repeated the same 3-0 vs. Slovan stuff this week on their podcast.

[paul_oshea]

Thankfully we don't have to listen to Brian Kerr on RTÉ tomorrow night (although Johnny McDonnell mightn't be much better).

Kerr was going on last week about their 3-0 win over Slovan, and also that Filippo lost his first game in Sligo.

Kerr is a bit like Johnny Giles at this stage. An eejit who Dubs seem to love. Time to retire - not that he will as he's getting a handy wage and just wings it.

He suffers from the terminal pats disease of thinking "in the know". Many Pats supporters down the years suffered the same deadly disease. Poor souls.

Not to mention a few on here, but found a greater, broader platform for themselves and since deserted the hollow grounds of foot.ie. Leaving a trail of devastation in their wake.

[The Lilywhites]

Alan Cawley and Stuey Byrne repeated the same 3-0 vs. Slovan stuff this week on their podcast.

Didn't listen to that, there are too many podcasts about I've given up on them. But Byrne and RTÉ in general were pretty hard to listen to on Sunday, and I don't usually mind their coverage.

Saying they didn't know the team 15 minutes before kick off (when it had been released 45 minutes earlier) and then pretending to be shocked when there were 10 changes.

Sadlier, his voice goes through my head, and Morley was just talking nonsense as usual. I hadn't heard Morley on RTÉ for a long time and hopefully he's not on again. Thankfully he's not on tomorrow night anyway.

And yeah, Pats fans must be the hardest to listen to in the whole league. Not being able to attend Richmond is one of the blessings of Covid.