LOI In Europe 2020

[pineapple stu]

I fully expect Dundalk to be in contention for group stages in the future - hopefully from 2022
You reckon Dundalk will still be in contention when there's 16 fewer group spots, non-LoI champions don't get in at all, you have to win CL1 when unseeded (which didn't come close to happening this year) - and all this while the Dundalk Euro money is all gone?

It's like listening to Fintan Cassidy back in the day.

[The Lilywhites]

Great draw and a real chance of group stage football. We're still the best team in the country, and with Perth out of the way, there's no reason why we can't get through both ties.

Meanwhile Rovers players got what they wanted, Milan jerseys and selfies. Greene maybe should have concentrated more on his finishing than asking Zlatan for his jersey 5 minutes into the game.

Hopefully our game next Thursday is live on TV here.

[pineapple stu]

We're still the best team in the country
What do you base that on?

The league table?

[dundalkfc10]

What do you base that on?

The league table?

Jesus some of the Dundalk 'fans' are here are clueless and trolls.

Fantastic performance by Rovers from the bits I seen at Half Time and Full Time of our game. Kept Milan awake and were a threat for 90 mins. Done the League a world of good for anyone who watched and wouldn't hold the league in a high regard.

Regarding us, decent win, should have been 2 or 3 up at HT. Ref ruined the second half, but Inter never looked like scoring and we had 1 or 2 chances.

Massive game next week, ironic that our worst season since 2012 and we have had the best European Draws of any year to date. No silly mistakes next week, hopefully Gannon plays with Hoare Centre Half, can't be having Cleary, he's been very bad this season.

On the other hand, Win next week and by the time we play again, we could be chasing Europe for 2021

[sundance kid]

This place is becoming worth a look again. So similar to 2010/2011, just switch the sligo lot for the dundalk lot and enjoy the meltdowns and delusion.

[Nesta99]

Not sure why anyone would be surprised at Gannon reacting like that. He’s been at that sort of stuff for years.

Ah I cant agree with that!! If it were cheap or soft frees you were referring to itd be pointless to argue against in modern football. I dont recall Gannon ever seriously feigning a nothing injury as could be construed by the example above. Of many players he tends to get on with things after winning the free or not.

[EatYerGreens]

We're still the best team in the country

You're not even the best team in The Pale, FFS :D

[placid casual]

Poor Lilywhite, he got it bad... :o

[Nesta99]

Poor Lilywhite, he got it bad... :o

What would that be, arrogance, self importance, superiority complex, overstatement etc ....... like thats never been seen in LoI before!

[The Lilywhites]

What do you base that on?

The league table?

The last proper league table, maybe.

The Covid league table, no. Rovers will be the Covid league winners, fair enough.

Dundalk are clearly still the best side in the country.

How deluded people are over this current Rovers team is really hilarious.

Bopped about last night by a team strolling around and Rovers fans are creaming themselves over their performance. Lol.

[pineapple stu]

The last proper league table, maybe.
That makes sense.

I often go to where I parked my car last year, not where it is now. Because clearly it was there last year.

And I don't wear a mask because covid clearly wasn't around last year.

I hear Man City are the clearly best team in England too.

Though in fairness, harking back to past glories may be something Dundalk have to used to, so no harm getting some practice in I guess.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Ah I cant agree with that!! If it were cheap or soft frees you were referring to itd be pointless to argue against in modern football. I dont recall Gannon ever seriously feigning a nothing injury as could be construed by the example above. Of many players he tends to get on with things after winning the free or not.

He’s forever throwing himself to the ground trying to win frees etc. Far from the only player who does it but is always at it.

[oriel]

Great draw and a real chance of group stage football. We're still the best team in the country, and with Perth out of the way, there's no reason why we can't get through both ties.

Meanwhile Rovers players got what they wanted, Milan jerseys and selfies. Greene maybe should have concentrated more on his finishing than asking Zlatan for his jersey 5 minutes into the game.

Hopefully our game next Thursday is live on TV here.

Not sure what to make of all of this in bold.

1/ Perth was harshly treated as most DFC fans would agree to.
2/ We are pale shadow of last years team, and are in 3rd position in the league on absolute merit.
3/ We may have improved with 3 wins on the trot, but have to counter the opposition, FD (Cobh), Mid Table (Shels), Very Low ranked (Inter).
4/ We are improving, but need to push on a serious level to finish second and to do better in europe.

[Nesta99]

He’s forever throwing himself to the ground trying to win frees etc. Far from the only player who does it but is always at it.

I wouldnt have singled Gannon out specifically tbh but in general ye cant argue against that perception, as aspect of the game now, like creating penalties!? But the example above would be pretty unique for Gannon. Kelly is prone to mistiming the manufacture of penalties and frees...

[Ezeikial]

Referring snippet from Andorra

https://twitter.com/MickaConroy/status/1306951164487843842

[Nesta99]

Referring snippet from Andorra

https://twitter.com/MickaConroy/status/1306951164487843842

Think the ref panicked when he saw some claret for the second one. Hard to see where he was caught and cant have been much as he was rubbing his loaf a good bit before he had enough on his hand to show the ref. 1st one the ball was at the back of the Inter players head so available to attack it, could have been sore but the ongoing meal meing made by Inter for every challange and then how dodgy they were in the tackle - it was getting very tetchy and it was effective in disrupting us. Dundalk players started to act up as Gannon did. Gannon got that free and I think the Inter player was booked then so as bad as it might look seems to have done the job also. Their centrehalf was flashing 2 invisible cards at the linesman and ref at another point and the ref duly obliged by booking McMillan I think. All a very strange night of football to watch. At least we have now had a timely reminder of such tactics used in Europe. Discipline v Sherriff will be important. I hope its Hoare is moved in to the middle with Gannon back at fullback now. There was some improvement from him Thursday night. Experience and just a hail mary hope that they have played in to resonable form or it could well be season over and a morale crushing tonking and its no Europe next season. Win and there might be some life left in us for the cup and capitalise on any league slip ups

[Ezeikial]

Discipline v Sherriff will be important. I hope its Hoare is moved in to the middle with Gannon back at fullback now. There was some improvement from him Thursday night. Experience and just a hail mary hope that they have played in to resonable form or it could well be season over and a morale crushing tonking and its no Europe next season. Win and there might be some life left in us for the cup and capitalise on any league slip ups

I agree with point that you make on discipline, although here were none arising from Thursday evening - in fact quite the contrary, they acquitted themselves very well in he face of outrageous behaviour from Inter players and what was probably the worst referring performance I can recall seeing in an elite match.

This team have still to recover the form, swagger and belief that they have demonstrated previously and lead them to dominate LOI football over the last 6-7 year. They will go into next week's macth as underdogs, but only a fool would write them off. Co-efficient probably tells little, but the gap with Sheiff is modest (12.75 V 8.5) If Dinamo Tbilisa awaits the winners they are ranked even lower at 4.75.

Hail Mary hopes have never been part of the deal - this side has aspirations for something very different than a "crushing tonking" or "no Europe next year". I expect Europe fooball next season and would not be a all surprised to be taking on Dinamo Tbilisi for a place in the EL Group stages on 1 Oct

[oriel]

Thats not a huge gap to bridge, and certainly the 2016-2018 teams would really fancy a stab at this. Betting is also not wide, Sheriff at 4/6, Dundalk at 7/2, problem is this is 2020 DFC, and form in August was just terrible.

Improved since, and should have been 3-0 up at HT v Inter but worry is all the missed chances that better teams would have taken, plus we won't get too many on Thursday.

Plus points, its a one off again, pressure will be on Sheriff and what a chance to make the group stages if we win, with a home draw, and probably v Tblisi who are lower ranked.

Will take a huge effort mind, and not sure the improvement has gone far enough to get past Sheriff, plus not too many away wins in europe against decent sides, but there is definitely a chance, stranger things have happened.

[Ezeikial]

You reckon Dundalk will still be in contention when there's 16 fewer group spots, non-LoI champions don't get in at all, you have to win CL1 when unseeded (which didn't come close to happening this year) - and all this while the Dundalk Euro money is all gone?




The possibility of group stages places are increased rather than reduced for Dundalk and other LOI clubs if all the proposed changes & additions to euro competitions come to fruition.

The circa €1m plus already guaranteed so far for Dundalk won' be any harm either



It's like listening to Fintan Cassidy back in the day.

I'm not sure about Finatan Cassidy, but as Gary Rogers looks to exend his European clean sheet record nex week, I'm wondering if he was he chap who was laughably claiming Nial Corbet was the better goalkeeper? Or was tha you?

[pineapple stu]

The possibility of group stages places are increased rather than reduced for Dundalk and other LOI clubs if all the proposed changes & additions to euro competitions come to fruition.
You'll have to explain your reasoning for this to be honest.

Dundalk have a great chance of getting to the EL groups now - but the proposed changes mean that the defeat to Celje would have seen them bypass the EL entirely. So that's clearly not an increased possibility of the group stage.

Dundalk probably won't win the league this year (though that's far from certain yet), but if that happens, then again, the EL gets bypassed. So again, clearly not an increased possibility of the group stage.

And if the LoI champions do get through a round of the CL, then the path is roughly the same as at present, in that they have two EL rounds to get through.

So in two scenarios, it is in fact impossible to reach the EL groups, and in the third scenario, it is roughly the same. How does that lead to an increased likelihood of qualifying?

On Corbet - and I should note that that is one hell of a tangent you've gone off on; often the sign of someone looking to distract from the size of the whole they've dug themselves into, but anyhoo - but he's putting his Master's Degree from one of the top colleges in the country to good use in the real world of work. Absolutely had the potential to be as good as Rogers, but there's life and better jobs beyond football, and the latter shouldn't get in the way of the former.

But I think you knew that anyway.

[Ezeikial]

You'll have to explain your reasoning for this to be honest.

Dundalk have a great chance of getting to the EL groups now - but the proposed changes mean that the defeat to Celje would have seen them bypass the EL entirely. So that's clearly not an increased possibility of the group stage.

Dundalk probably won't win the league this year (though that's far from certain yet), but if that happens, then again, the EL gets bypassed. So again, clearly not an increased possibility of the group stage.


The 'Honest Logic Box’ seeks reasoning to try to pluck apart – quelle surprise!


If the proposed changes to UEFA competitions goes ahead in the way that they have been flagged, it is likely to lead to additional Group Stages opportunities for Dundalk and other League of Ireland clubs across all 3 competitions - Champions League (CL), Europa League (EL) European Conference League (ECL)

While CL group stages may not be any more accessible because of the standard of opposition and the recent extra QFR, the introduction of ECL would see other group stage places rise from 48 places to 64 places between EL and ECL (32 each)


A defeat in CL QFR1 (like to Celje) would mean a dropdown to ECL and 3 rounds to make ECL Group stages, aided by a CL Champions Path and separate EL dropdown draw stream – the same number of rounds, but probably more winnable ties than EL previously


But crucially a defeat in EL QRR2 onwards (like against Sheiff) wih give the added safety net of ECL group stage route if eliminated at EL.





And if the LoI champions do get through a round of the CL, then the path is roughly the same as at present, in that they have two EL rounds to get through.



So in two scenarios, it is in fact impossible to reach the EL groups, and in the third scenario, it is roughly the same. How does that lead to an increased likelihood of qualifying?


The 33% increases in EL & ECL group places when compared wih EL alone - these extra 16 places are very accessable LoI CL qualifying teams



On Corbet - and I should note that that is one hell of a tangent you've gone off on; often the sign of someone looking to distract from the size of the whole they've dug themselves into, but anyhoo - but he's putting his Master's Degree from one of the top colleges in the country to good use in the real world of work. Absolutely had the potential to be as good as Rogers, but there's life and better jobs beyond football, and the latter shouldn't get in the way of the former.

But I think you knew that anyway.

Tangent, holes - you can be unintentional good craic a times, if you did't take yourself so seriously

I wish Nial Corbet well as he plays out his football in he backwaters of Clonaslee GAA, but your oblique, dare I say tangential reference to Fintan Cassidy (presumably intended as some sort of dig at me) reminded me about the foolishness of he comment about Corbet being a better keeper than Gary Rogers ( I know you subsequently backtracked to say "potential" - that made it all the more amusing)

[pineapple stu]

The 'Honest Logic Box’ seeks reasoning to try to pluck apart – quelle surprise!


If the proposed changes to UEFA competitions goes ahead in the way that they have been flagged, it is likely to lead to additional Group Stages opportunities for Dundalk and other League of Ireland clubs across all 3 competitions - Champions League (CL), Europa League (EL) European Conference League (ECL)
It will lead to fewer group stage opportunities for the LoI at CL level.

It will lead to fewer group stage opportunities for the LoI at EL level, as I've shown.

It will lead to group stage opportunities for the LoI at ECL level - but that's not what we were talking about, it it? The point was very clearly about the EL group stages.

[Ezeikial]

It will lead to fewer group stage opportunities for the LoI at CL level.

It will lead to fewer group stage opportunities for the LoI at EL level, as I've shown.

It will lead to group stage opportunities for the LoI at ECL level - but that's not what we were talking about, it it? The point was very clearly about the EL group stages.

That’s what I have posted about. You stick with your own narrow agenda if you wish.

If it all happens, Without a doubt it will provide more group stage opportunities for League if Ireland clubs. I don’t think clubs will be too bothered about which logo is on the match ticket if the clubs are making money from it and building new euro experiences

[EatYerGreens]

That’s what I have posted about. You stick with your own narrow agenda if you wish.

If it all happens, Without a doubt it will provide more group stage opportunities for League if Ireland clubs. I don’t think clubs will be too bothered about which logo is on the match ticket if the clubs are making money from it and building new euro experiences

Given there is significantly different income involved with each different level of European competition, clubs WILL obviously be bothered about which one they're in. All will want to be in the most lucrative stream they can be.

[sbgawa]

In simple terms if you win the league you have a better chance of Group stages than ever before.
If you don't at best you have similar chance and probably for less money.

[Ezeikial]

Given there is significantly different income involved with each different level of European competition, clubs WILL obviously be bothered about which one they're in. All will want to be in the most lucrative stream they can be.

Of course any ambitious club will want to compete at the highest and most lucrative level, but overall having more group stage possibilities across the 3 competitions is a big potential benefit to Loi clubs

[Ezeikial]

In simple terms if you win the league you have a better chance of Group stages than ever before.
If you don't at best you have similar chance and probably for less money.

First part is clear. Second part about less money less so. It may be that LOI clubs have the capacity to go further in ECL even if money per round is less than EL. Time will tell

[nigel-harps1954]

Dundalk will probably never get a better chance again to qualify for the Europa League group stage. It'll take a huge effort to get past Sheriff, but they've a very winnable game after that if they can manage it.


Never get a better chance again? Do you know something the rest of us don't about the future of this competition?

It's the best draw available and gives a glint of hope of making the group stages if Sheriff can be sorted. The odds will be stacked against us - but thats just one of the exciting parts of European football


That’s what I have posted about. You stick with your own narrow agenda if you wish.

If it all happens, Without a doubt it will provide more group stage opportunities for League if Ireland clubs. I don’t think clubs will be too bothered about which logo is on the match ticket if the clubs are making money from it and building new euro experiences

But, sure...whatever.

[Martinho II]

[QUOTE=Ezeikial;2049375]First part is clear. Second part about less money less so. It may be that LOI clubs have the capacity to go further in ECL even if money per round is less than EL. Time will tell)
Ezeikial for the uneducated like me whats diff between ECL and EL if you dont mind. I havent much time to think about future European competions .Just focusing on family and trying to get a job again so havent time to take in properly with COVID.

[Ezeikial]

But, sure...whatever.

Another with the blinkers on. See post #621 in the unlikely even that you have even the slightest interest in something other than pure pedantics of European group competiions

[Ezeikial]

[QUOTE=Ezeikial;2049375]First part is clear. Second part about less money less so. It may be that LOI clubs have the capacity to go further in ECL even if money per round is less than EL. Time will tell)
Ezeikial for the uneducated like me whats diff between ECL and EL if you dont mind. I havent much time to think about future European competions .Just focusing on family and trying to get a job again so havent time to take in properly with COVID.

These wikipedia articles may help, although changes will take place to Europa League when / if Europa Conference League is introduced

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_Conference_League

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Europa_League

[pineapple stu]

That’s what I have posted about.
Nigel - who you were replying to - has got in before me to point out that it wasn't what you were posting about. The comment made was "Dundalk will probably never get a better chance again to qualify for the Europa League group stage" (my emphasis), to which you replied "Never get a better chance again? Do you know something the rest of us don't about the future of this competition?" (again my emphasis)

So Nigel was correct.

But sure lookit, as you seem to be one of these who changes what point they're making during a discussion, I'll just leave you with it.

[pineapple stu]

Back on topic btw, one other snippet is that Waterford are getting close to knowing whether they'll be in the UEFA Youth League this year - the draw is in two weeks' time. They need four clubs to qualify both for the CL proper and the Youth League - Man City and Atalanta are two. That said, entrants are all a little bit up in the air yet, and it's not easy to see who the other two might be (Celta Vigo, Köln and Angers are the Spanish, German and French underage champions for example) So probably not looking great for them to be honest, which would be a shame as Irish clubs have always acquitted themselves very well in it to date.

[The Lilywhites]

It always amuses me how much UCD and Harps fans get worked up in discussions about Europe and league titles.

[pineapple stu]

Good point well argued, as to be expected with a The Lilywhites post.

[paul_oshea]

Ezekial making up his own competition in his narrow little head is he?

[nigel-harps1954]

Another with the blinkers on. See post #621 in the unlikely even that you have even the slightest interest in something other than pure pedantics of European group competiions

If I'm responding to a post, I tend to stick to the point. Yours may have been slightly off topic, given that the entire discussion surrounded your questioning of my initial statement, that I quoted again for you.


It always amuses me how much UCD and Harps fans get worked up in discussions about Europe and league titles.

Go on then, humour me.

Where have I posted such things other than suggesting it's a great opportunity for Dundalk?

[Ezeikial]

Ezekial making up his own competition in his narrow little head is he?

Paul, if you are ignorant about the Europa Conference League, perhaps a UK themed article might be easier to digest for you. Is a "narrow little head" intended as a strange personal insult - does it speak more about you?

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/what-uefa-europa-conference-league-18936794

[Ezeikial]

If I'm responding to a post, I tend to stick to the point. Yours may have been slightly off topic, given that the entire discussion surrounded your questioning of my initial statement, that I quoted again for you.



To be fair, you did specifically mention future Europa League group stages as opposed to considering the group stages of he Champions League or Europa Conference League as well.

Apologies if widening out the discussion has upset you

[Scrufil]

Interesting to note that AC Milan played Bolonga last night and triumphed by 2‐0 both scored by Zlatan. So, once again no shame, Rovers!

[Mr A]

Interesting to note that AC Milan played Bolonga last night and triumphed by 2‐0 both scored by Zlatan. So, once again no shame, Rovers!

Or absolute desolation for Bologna.

[Scrufil]

Yeah, would help if I could spell Bologna.

[Buller]

It will lead to fewer group stage opportunities for the LoI at CL level.

It will lead to fewer group stage opportunities for the LoI at EL level, as I've shown.

It will lead to group stage opportunities for the LoI at ECL level - but that's not what we were talking about, it it? The point was very clearly about the EL group stages.

Agreed. Overall though, a higher chance of LOI making the group stages of a European competition.





I don’t think clubs will be too bothered about which logo is on the match ticket if the clubs are making money from it and building new euro experiences

They most certainly will be bothered about the logo if the prizemoney isn't the same. If prizemoney for the new ECL group stages is comparable to EL group stages, I think it will be a very positive development for the LOI.

[pineapple stu]

They most certainly will be bothered about the logo if the prizemoney isn't the same. If prizemoney for the new ECL group stages is comparable to EL group stages, I think it will be a very positive development for the LOI.
That's exactly it, isn't it?

I would be surprised if the prize money was the same as the EL to be honest (even before any covid downturn). It seems more likely that the EL prize money would increase (which it surely will anyway as they're going from 12 groups down to 8) and ECL prize money would be lower than the EL now (but probably still higher than, say, what Rovers got in 2011) It would seem to defeat the point of creating the third tier otherwise.

I like the idea overall - though to be honest, it looks like the LoI sides will still struggle to qualify (league champions aside) as at least 10 of the 32 group spots will be teams that didn't start in the ECL. There's four rounds to get through and even as it is, it's a very good achievement for an LoI club to win two rounds. This might well help us get through one more round on average, but that's still a good bit short.

I had in mind a competition with, say, no clubs below 10 in the UEFA rankings, and much more chance of smaller clubs reaching the groups. But that's probably a bit optimistic in hindsight.

[placid casual]

Pardon me for asking a silly question, but what is it that has Dundalk so confident they will make the Europa League this year?
Have they bought a new goalkeeper/centre half/passing midfielder that I haven't heard about?
They have to win 2 more games to qualify, yeah?

[pineapple stu]

They have got about as easy a draw as they could get in fairness. Always gets the hopes up.

They will need to get rid of the shyness in front of goal which has dogged them the last couple of years though, and which was still noticeable against Celje and Inter.

[pateen]

Is the game on the box?

[Real ale Madrid]

Is the game on the box?

No sign of anyone picking it up yet. Super Cup final on that night. Facebook / YouTube probably the best chance at this stage.

[dundalkfc10]

Is the game on the box?

Club hoping to show it on website. Id say all will be confirmed tonight once they settle in Moldova and get things sorted with Sheriff.

[holidaysong]

Pardon me for asking a silly question, but what is it that has Dundalk so confident they will make the Europa League this year?
Have they bought a new goalkeeper/centre half/passing midfielder that I haven't heard about?
They have to win 2 more games to qualify, yeah?

I don't think most of us are that confident actually. I give us about a 30% chance against Sheriff (and I would consider myself to be an optimist!).

OK, the good draw for the playoff round might have gotten the hopes up a bit more but sure it's the hope that kills you in the end.

If we do manage to get past Sheriff then I will be making no apologies for ratcheting up my expectations. So one more game away from losing the run of ourselves and then being brought crashing down to earth by Brian Gartland managing to hit one into our own net via a Georgian players arse in the last minute of injury time to lose 1-0.