LOI In Europe 2020

[DCWA]

So frustrating. Go get a decent keeper. McCarey awful in a game that was absolutely there for the taking.

[osarusan]

McCarey soft for all 3 goals, and awful for the 3rd.

[ger121]

Crazy to give away another after getting back into it

[passinginterest]

Had to pop out for a while. Came in to see Dundalk miss a sitter of a header from a corner and then concede a shocker to go 3-2 down. I can see why McCarey hasn’t replaced Rogers! He has similar issues.

[passinginterest]

Ah for god sake. That’s brutal.

[pineapple stu]

Have to feel for McCarey there. Had the look of a guy who knows his career is on the line after the third. Really puts things in perspective a bit.

[ger121]

How the **** have they not got something out of this game. Mental last 15

[Philosophizer]

I've seen a lot of LOI goalkeepers have nightmares in Europe but I think McCarey has taken the gold medal tonight.
The worst thing about it is this was probably the poorest team I've ever seen a LOI team play in the group stages. They're horrendous at the back.

[sbgawa]

Genuine question is there another club in the premier division with two worse keepers than dundalk? ffs

[passinginterest]

Have to feel for McCarey there. Had the look of a guy who knows his career is on the line after the third. Really puts things in perspective a bit.

Feel for him alright. He was a lad who looked like he had a big career ahead. Never seems to have got going again after the failed drug test issues.

He was questionable for all 3 goals I saw. Not sure about the other one.

[pineapple stu]

What a strange game.

To be honest, I thought Dundalk were very much second best in that, and yet are a bit unlucky not to come away with something. They were gifted the first - offside and then a keeper howler - and two penalties always helps. Livescore says they were Dundalk's only shots on target in the whole game (maybe Duffy's one in the first half was going wide).
But the general ball retention was poorer than in the other two games and Rapid were certainly pressing more throughout.

Leave the keepers out of it - and Rapid's keeper was ****e as well; probably should have saved the first penalty too - and Rapid still deserved the win overall I think. But Dundalk will have to think they can take something out of the return.

[TheBoss]

David McMillian has become joint 1st with Glen Crowe on 11 goals in European competition. McMillian also becomes the first LOI player to score double figures with a single LOI club.



DATE
SEASON
ERA
COMP
STAGE
GOALSCORER
CLUB
H/A/N
OPPONENT
COUNTRY
GOALS


14 Jul
2011/12
2010s
Europa League
Second Qualifying Round
David McMillan
St. Patrick's Athletic
AWAY
Shakhter Karagandy
Kazakhstan
1


15 Jul
2015/16
2010s
Champions League
Second Qualifying Round
David McMillan
Dundalk
AWAY
BATE
Belarus
1


13 Jul
2016/17
2010s
Champions League
Second Qualifying Round
David McMillan
Dundalk
HOME
FH
Iceland
1


20 Jul
2016/17
2010s
Champions League
Second Qualifying Round
David McMillan
Dundalk
AWAY
FH
Iceland
2


02 Aug
2016/17
2010s
Champions League
Third Qualifying Round
David McMillan
Dundalk
HOME
BATE
Belarus
2


12 Jul
2017/18
2010s
Champions League
Second Qualifying Round
David McMillan
Dundalk
HOME
Rosenborg
Norway
1


17 Sep
2020/21
2020s
Europa League
Second Qualifying Round
David McMillan
Dundalk
AWAY
Inter d'Escaldes
Andorra
1


05 Nov
2020/21
2020s
Europa League
Group Stage
David McMillan
Dundalk
AWAY
Rapid Wien
Austria
2

[dundalkfc10]

True they looked average but Dundalk played very well.

If we could play like that and certain periods of European games the title race would have been good

They are alot stronger domestically than Wolfsebuger who beat Feyenord 4-1 last week and LASK who beat Sporting Lisbon 4-1 to qualify

[Yossarian]

Now I know how Rovers fans felt a couple of years ago with their selection of terrible keepers. If we had a good keeper we would have won that game.

[joey B]

Genuine question is there another club in the premier division with two worse keepers than dundalk? ffs

Cork easily!

[Demesne Lad]

Rob Elliot is looking for a club; currently training with Gateshead.

[sbgawa]

Cork easily!

Cork are a first division club ;)

[ger121]

Could be worse. Celtic getting tonked at home by a side who has players missing through illness and injury. On top of that the Czech League is suspended due to COVID. Europe is very tough. You just have to look at some of the hammerings again week. I thought before the group commenced that Molde at home was the easiest of the 6 to pick up a point. I would say after 3 GWs it would actually be Wien.

[CorribsideSteve]

Very unlucky for Dundalk tonight. They should take confidence from this that Wien are beatable in the Aviva. Oduwa and McMillan were a great double sub. Best I've seen Oduwa play. Didn't see McMillan scoring two! The need for a new goalkeeper(s) is painfully obvious now, however.

[Nesta99]

Another night and that could be near €600k banked as that game was winnable. Very frustrating not to at least draw when its level with 4-5minutes left especially when there are blunders.

Ye have to feel for McCarey really as he did some very good things but of course that counts for nothing when goals are gift wrapped. Keepers are the fall guys but often there is a series of errors in the lead up. First goal there was acres of space given for the shot with closing down poor. I have had a good look back to see if there was any movement of the ball but nope, it was a bit of a rasper but the keeper didnt get anything on it when it was pretty much sent down his throat. Poor positioning, slow reaction, if he gad got a glove on it and still gone in well at least the power n the shot carried it through could be the rolled out reason.

2nd goal is arguably a bit harsh to blame the keeper. Alex Ferguson hated having a keeper not well over 6ft (why he wouldnt consider Given when the likes of Taibi was throwing the ball in to his own net) and this goal arguably shows why. He was at full stretch and just about deflected the ball off target in to the path of a Vienna player to nod in to an empty net. But where were the Dundalk players not tracking the player or at minimum plugging the gap in behind McCarey.

3rd Well an unnecessary free given away first after some sloppy passing but ye cant make excuses for being so far off claiming the ball. 2 games game in a row wth 2 different keepers. Poor judgement but with Rogers experence I think it was the worst of the 2 clangers.

Not getting points last night is not just about the keeper, and while Venna were wasteful also, Duffy shoud have done a bit better when through on goal, maybe under some pressure from a defender, should have taken a shot rather than cut inside imo, but when he did cut in he scuffed the shot with the keeper committed to dive toward the far post. If he had lofted the ball the keeper was out of it, easy said watchng back on slowmo replays. Slogget free header was a sitter, he took the ball off Cleary's head who was also free in behind. We got some luck with the first but Hoban is good at getting something behind those headers from distance off a deep cross, sending them toward the bottom corners. It had to be on target to have a chance of going in so credit there. Oduwa is a frustrating player but his trickery led to 2 goals. There is a serious player there to work on and worth his spot in the squad in the hope he improves the lasier side to his game.

All that was missing from last night was a red card. It sits up there with the sense that LoI team can and do regularly implode undoing some great work. I think that is chance gone on the basis that teams will always be a bit complacent first tie and they will have more stealiness next time home or away. Ye have to live in hope, there is still an outside chance of €1.2mil when out of the group bar a freakish set of results including at home of Arsenal last up when they have already secured a last 32 slot.

Most sides make errors every game, the main difference is that Irish side dont punish lapses, better European sides do. It unoubtedly plays on players minds not to to make any catastrophic error which of course is when they do exactly that.

[pineapple stu]

I think though you can't analyse the game through McCarey's mistakes without looking at the first Dundalk goal, which was the worst howler of the lot and which was offside. Had Dundalk not gotten that early lead, it would have been a different game too.

[Nesta99]

Id agree that you cant fully analyse the result without looking at all aspects including Dundalk 1st goal. But I do think you can look at individual and collective errors, especially when given an opportunity like the first Vienna goal and to bemoan a missed opportunity. It was a howler from the Vienna keeper but it wouldnt be unusual for Hoban to pressure the keeper unexpectedly with that sort of header. He really does get some power behind them even when there is no pace on the ball in or Hoban himself is static. If the keeper had stopped it as he should, of course it is a different game simply even just cause it knocks a goal off, it may have influenced the game in terms of Dundalk's confidencem or made Vienna nervous but thats hard to quantfy. The third Vienna goal was just calamatous with McCarey choosing to leave his line. The first Dundalk goal,, its not beyond possible that they were caught cold, hardly expecting Dundalk to leave their own 18yd box. They would never have contemplated conceding 3 v Dundalk, 2 penos or not.

I also think it highlights were Dundalk FC need to improve in Europe and in general, be that coaching, player recruitment or even employing a flipping sports psychologist!

It's done and dusted so little point in the ifs and buts for supporters. But the club itself can reflect and be proactive.

[pineapple stu]

The keeper, even having slipped (which was a bad mistake) should still have saved Hoban's header to be honest. I mean, Hoban "got the shot on target" as the cliche goes, but he can't really claim any more credit than that. It was one of the worst bits of keeping I've seen in a Dundalk match in a while - and that's saying something :)

Plus of course the fact Gannon was offside from the ball played down the wing which was I think two passes before the goal.

Of course, the goal was scored - but the danger in analysing these things is that you go "Oh if only our mistakes hadn't happened we'd have won" and ignore the mistakes you benefitted from, which isn't really consistent. For example, you can't really make excuses for the Dundalk goal while saying the third was outright calamitous - they both involved keepers making bad decisions to come off their line (and then the Vienna guy compounded his mistake by slipping). Then you get to false conclusions about the game.

Overall, I thought the result was fair; Vienna were the better team and I think Dundalk were further away from them than the scoreline suggests.

[Nesta99]

Well I did say 'Not getting points last night is not just about the keeper' and posts littered with ifs, incuding the one above. Yeah it may be cliched (is there anything not cliched whan chating about football!?) but no headed opportunity on target no goal - it was offside and would made a much bigger issue if Vienna hadnt won. Maybe its all semantics but if a game is 2-2 in the 86th minute its a disappointment not to get a result irrespective of how it happened. To use a well worn example from Irish sporting lore, who remembers England battering Ireland in Euro '88? Its about the result, analysis is generally just fluff after, my own included. I dont think I know of a striker who doesnt take credit for goals no matter how they are scored - maybe we should refer that one to Pat Morley too! :p

[Charlie Darwin]

Now I know how Rovers fans felt a couple of years ago with their selection of terrible keepers. If we had a good keeper we would have won that game.
If you ask Bradser nicely he might give you Tomer Chencinski's number.

[oriel]

Overall, I thought the result was fair; Vienna were the better team and I think Dundalk were further away from them than the scoreline suggests.

Meant to come back on this, I can't agree nor do I see your reasoning for this. Rapid, being the home team and multiple budgets excess more than DFC were very sloppy at the back, and conceded 3 at home, I would think they would consider themselves quite fortunate to have won it, and not just on the late consolation goal.

Duffy should have scored in the first half to put us 2-1 up, and maybe but not so clear cut could have scored when he got injured in the second half and hit side netting. Slogget also should have scored his header in the second half, so that's 3 good chances alone.

When compared to Molde game (they deserved to win as they did a job on us in the second half), and Arsenal (no contest), I think this was one game that we deserved to take something from, and that would have been a draw. The poor selection putting the GK in, and the poor use of subs, together with bad mgt overall ensured we were always up against it, but overall def thought it was a huge opportunity lost to get the first point.

[pineapple stu]

I think first off, as with any discussion forum, it's just my opinion and I don't obviously expect that everyone has to agree.

The budget difference isn't really relevant; the gap didn't reflect the budget gap, but that doesn't mean Rapid weren't the better team. Dundalk certainly did better than I would have expected, but that's not the argument here. Rapid were a little bit fortunate to win it, but the flip side is they pulled through in the last 10 and were 4-2 up before a last-kick penalty put a bit of a different gloss on the scoreline.

But I will note that you made no mention of the Dundalk opener being (a) really fortunate and (b) offside. That gave Dundalk something to hold on to from the start. What would have happened had Rapid gone 1-0 up with their long-range strike instead? Confidence changes on both sides and it's a different game potentially.

Yes, Duffy should have scored alright, but if you argue Sloggett should have scored his header, you have to factor in Rapid's very similar one I think which was also just wide. I think you're unduly biased towards Dundalk chances in your analysis, and I don't think you can evaluate a game just by counting your chances.

On balance of play, I thought Rapid were pressing more, created more, and always looked the more dangerous. I thought they pressed Dundalk into more defensive mistakes than Molde did. The stats for the game (https://www.footballcritic.com/uefa-europa-league-sk-rapid-wien-dundalk-fc/match-stats/2188545) show Dundalk scored with every shot they had on target (which included two penalties), but Rapid had 23 shots compared to 10, 62% of possession, and 8 corners to 5.

I know you can read too much into stats, and I know Dundalk will argue that they won't have such a bad night in nets again (even though it's been pointed out as a weakness for years...) but it certainly ties into what I felt watching the game, which is that Rapid were controlling it more than Dundalk. Yes, they won narrowly and I'm not arguing that 4-1 would have been a fairer score. But I do think that if I were Rapid looking at the return game, I'd be focussing on cutting out the crap at the back, and I'm not sure Dundalk (a) can raise their attacking game a huge amount or (b) will get that lucky in front of goal again. I would imagine that Rapid's improvement is easier to come by than Dundalk's.

All speculation of course - welcome to foot.ie. But that's my reasoning for it.

[Martinho II]

Meant to come back on this, I can't agree nor do I see your reasoning for this. Rapid, being the home team and multiple budgets excess more than DFC were very sloppy at the back, and conceded 3 at home, I would think they would consider themselves quite fortunate to have won it, and not just on the late consolation goal.

Duffy should have scored in the first half to put us 2-1 up, and maybe but not so clear cut could have scored when he got injured in the second half and hit side netting. Slogget also should have scored his header in the second half, so that's 3 good chances alone.

When compared to Molde game (they deserved to win as they did a job on us in the second half), and Arsenal (no contest), I think this was one game that we deserved to take something from, and that would have been a draw. The poor selection putting the GK in, and the poor use of subs, together with bad mgt overall ensured we were always up against it, but overall def thought it was a huge opportunity lost to get the first point.

PG I think is feeling the pressure a bit from the stick he is getting from journalists and deservedly so. He must come from a culture where he was never challenged!

[pineapple stu]

What?

[sbgawa]

Only the odd parent not happy their kid wasnt playing up to now. Must be hard to have a load of press havibg a pop now

[EatYerGreens]

Only the odd parent not happy their kid wasnt playing up to now. Must be hard to have a load of press havibg a pop now

I doubt that media scrutiny will come as a surprise to anyone involved in football - no matter the level.

It's not like he's getting the Lady Diana treatment.

[sbgawa]

Knowing it happens and being at the centre of it are very different things.

[Nesta99]

But I will note that you made no mention of the Dundalk opener being (a) really fortunate and (b) offside. .

This might sound like flogging a dead horse, but watching highlights I'm not so sure it was offside. Camera angles can decieve but using the halfway line as a gauge, screencap and taking a line across the pitch as the ball was played Gannon was level. I could see why the lino didnt flag and if he did can understand why. If VAR was available and marginal decisions go to the attacking team then I dont think it would have been ruled out. Tried to post the screenshot, maybe file is too big, but couldnt get it posted - it does show that it was a fine margin at best but onside. Some Rathfarnham Hoop level of forensic analyis is needed!!

[pineapple stu]

Stick up a video sure. Beglin called it offside at the time and it looked clear enough from the replays. But you never know

[Nesta99]

For some reason I cant post the screencap (png file). But here is the link to highlights, pause at 55secs just as the ball is played. Now it is really tight, but its not a banker either way if VAR was available imo.

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/video/extended-highlights-rapid-wien-vs-dundalk/

To me it looks like the left sided centre half had Ganno onside. It means damn all I know but as a point of interest or even discussion, well for me he was onside.

[pineapple stu]

Hm. It's certainly tighter than I thought from watching the replay in fairness. I think maybe marginally off, but definitely not as clear as I had originally thought.


It means damn all I know but as a point of interest or even discussion, well for me he was onside.
I think it's always important to keep this in context alright! It doesn't matter if he was offside; the goal was scored. It doesn't matter if I think Dundalk will lose 6-0 in the return and oriel thinks ye'll win 6-0. What happens happens, and us disagreeing about things on an internet forum isn't remotely important in the greater scheme of things.

[Nesta99]

That's all fair cop! For me it would be more about how VAR would have ruled as either side could feel hard done by. I think they tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side!? The ace up the sleeve for LoI is to be underestimated, plenty of platitudes get rolled out about respecting every team, no easy games in Europe etc. Well tbh with exceptions Dundalk FC have benfited from other sides' complacency. We have a chance of results but I think the bit will be between the teeth for both Vienna and Molde having played us and us not rolling over. It could be that we sneak a draw with Arsenal simply as everything is done and dusted and they could stick on their u18s.

Not sure which year but playing BATE one of the years I think Soligorsk played Glenavon and cruised through, the error was made on thinking thats where Dundalk FC were at and the standard of Irish football was limited, coefficient then would probably have backed that up. Anyway I expect Vienna in particular, especially if able to reach the last 32, will be in a different mindset than last Thursday.

[pineapple stu]

I think Arsenal have to stick to players in the squad declared, don't they? So given the bench (Leno, Willian, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Bellerin) was stronger than the side that played, I think ye're stuck with hoping they put out the same team again...

[oriel]

I think first off, as with any discussion forum, it's just my opinion and I don't obviously expect that everyone has to agree.

The budget difference isn't really relevant; the gap didn't reflect the budget gap, but that doesn't mean Rapid weren't the better team. Dundalk certainly did better than I would have expected, but that's not the argument here. Rapid were a little bit fortunate to win it, but the flip side is they pulled through in the last 10 and were 4-2 up before a last-kick penalty put a bit of a different gloss on the scoreline.

But I will note that you made no mention of the Dundalk opener being (a) really fortunate and (b) offside. That gave Dundalk something to hold on to from the start. What would have happened had Rapid gone 1-0 up with their long-range strike instead? Confidence changes on both sides and it's a different game potentially.

Yes, Duffy should have scored alright, but if you argue Sloggett should have scored his header, you have to factor in Rapid's very similar one I think which was also just wide. I think you're unduly biased towards Dundalk chances in your analysis, and I don't think you can evaluate a game just by counting your chances.

On balance of play, I thought Rapid were pressing more, created more, and always looked the more dangerous. I thought they pressed Dundalk into more defensive mistakes than Molde did. The stats for the game (https://www.footballcritic.com/uefa-europa-league-sk-rapid-wien-dundalk-fc/match-stats/2188545) show Dundalk scored with every shot they had on target (which included two penalties), but Rapid had 23 shots compared to 10, 62% of possession, and 8 corners to 5.

I know you can read too much into stats, and I know Dundalk will argue that they won't have such a bad night in nets again (even though it's been pointed out as a weakness for years...) but it certainly ties into what I felt watching the game, which is that Rapid were controlling it more than Dundalk. Yes, they won narrowly and I'm not arguing that 4-1 would have been a fairer score. But I do think that if I were Rapid looking at the return game, I'd be focussing on cutting out the crap at the back, and I'm not sure Dundalk (a) can raise their attacking game a huge amount or (b) will get that lucky in front of goal again. I would imagine that Rapid's improvement is easier to come by than Dundalk's.

All speculation of course - welcome to foot.ie. But that's my reasoning for it.

Of course its only an opinion, and that's what football / on here is all about. Not sure I am biased towards DFC, I've been very critical in the past, dont think FG is the right man for the job, unhappy with attitude of the players, agreed we deserved nothing from Molde game (due to second half), but still think that was a game that got away last Thursday, far too many mistakes, and better players / players in better form would have scored those chances I listed.

[pineapple stu]

but still think that was a game that got away last Thursday, far too many mistakes, and better players / players in better form would have scored those chances I listed.
I think that's way too narrow a focus though. Better players/players in form is "if my aunt had balls" sort of territory. If Rapid had better players/players in better form, they'd have scored their chances too. I don't think you can just take one side of things like that and draw a conclusion.

[paul_oshea]

Bit late on this but thought shields had a great game. I missed the last few minutes as the phone died, is there any highlights?

Can take a lot of positives and comfort from the fact that, bar individual errors, in the main they have looked more than competitive in 2 out of the 3 games. Event against arsenal they looked organised and well setup and 3-0 wasnt the worst result even if against a B side.

[John83]

... still think that was a game that got away last Thursday, far too many mistakes, and better players / players in better form would have scored those chances I listed.
I played a grandmaster at chess once, some years ago. I gave that grandmaster a fright when I caught him in a known trap and briefly had an advantage - just as Hoban scored the first goal - it doesn't mean I should have won. I didn't make many mistakes, but I made enough to lose; that's why he's better at chess than me. Dundalk made those mistakes precisely because on a European level, they're a team comprised of limited players. That's no discredit to them: they clearly gave Rapid a good game and can be pleased with much of their performance.

In another game, last year, I played very well had a small advantage against a master until quite late in the game and was hopeful of getting a draw at least, just as Dundalk were level late in the game against Vienna. Like Dundalk, I had chances for more, but a late error cost me the result. That's what limited players do: we **** up and lose against better players. Not every single time - sometime you play above yourself, sometimes you get lucky - but the mistakes are an integral part of the game; discounting them and dreaming of what might have been is for patzers. Anyway, good luck to Dundalk in the return game in Tallaght or Lansdowne or wherever it is.

[holidaysong]

There are highlights here:

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/video/extended-highlights-rapid-wien-vs-dundalk/

[seand]

I think Arsenal have to stick to players in the squad declared, don't they? So given the bench (Leno, Willian, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Bellerin) was stronger than the side that played, I think ye're stuck with hoping they put out the same team again...

I think if Dundalk got to hand pick the Arsenal side from their EL squad it'd still be the best team we've played since Zenit

[ciaraa]

There are highlights here:

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/video/extended-highlights-rapid-wien-vs-dundalk/

Great link - thanks for that

[passinginterest]

No Filippo for tonight; https://www.the42.ie/dundalk-10-5279182-Nov2020/

Seems like the lack of the necessary coaching qualifications is the issue. Dundalk will have to get him on a pro licence somewhere asap if he's staying on.

Dundalk seem to be finding some form, it'll be interesting to see if they can build on the away result, or if Rapid will have learned some lessons and come away with a more comfortable win.

[pineapple stu]

All quiet ahead of this evening.

Possibly last-chance saloon for Dundalk to pick up points? Certainly it's the easiest of the last three games. And Dundalk come into it on the back of possibly their best domestic performance of the season too.

Though I think this one will be decided by who has learnt more from the previous game, where both keepers in particular were truly awful, and I thought both defences were uncomfortable. Will Dundalk be as lucky again as to score with all their shots on target? Or will they create more at home, negating the need to be quite so clinical?

Answers on a postcard - until 8pm

[sbgawa]

Completely forgot about this game,
Slightly bizarre how quiet it is, part and parcel of the fact its not an "Event" that people will be going to, we are nothing if not event junkies in ireland

[2 Year Contract]

Dundalk seem to be finding some form

Who knew 1 game constitutes good form nowadays ;)

Before the win against Bohs they had 5 losses and a draw from their previous 6 games

[passinginterest]

Who knew 1 game constitutes good form nowadays ;)

Before the win against Bohs they had 5 losses and a draw from their previous 6 games

It constitutes finding form though. As I said.