LOI In Europe 2020

[pineapple stu]

Who knew 1 game constitutes good form nowadays ;)

Before the win against Bohs they had 5 losses and a draw from their previous 6 games

That does include the three group stage games in fairness, but still, hadn't realised it was quite that bad. Defeats against Sligo and Waterford, and a draw with Pats

[Real ale Madrid]

Is it just me or is the Europa league theme music great.

https://youtu.be/KrDmZZ3pYp8

[sbgawa]

I've backed Rapid vienna at 7/5 to win by more than 1 goal (sorry DFC fans but i did back you to qualify against Sherrif)
Just think Rapid were disrespectful in their approach to the first game and expect them to shape up for this one.

Since i backed it odds have moved in to evens so i'm not the only one

[Nesta99]

I'd agree with that, I think they will be a very different proposition tonight and will have a point to prove too. Maybe though, get a few decent attacks in early and test the keeper they might sit a bit deeper. I've always tended to less than optimistic in games like this so 0-3 wouldnt be a shock. Can always hope and point = money and maybe some bonus payments for players and after a good win in the cup.

[CorribsideSteve]

The Vienna derby is on this weekend coming, and Rapid lost ground at the top recently, beaten 4-3 by a lower place side. I'm hoping that equates to them perhaps having one eye on that fixture and not playing their strongest team? Wishful thinking, most likely. Still, I think they're ordinary enough for Dundalk to trouble them and maybe sneak a win, if the last encounter between the two is anything to go by.

[pineapple stu]

Molde just gone 1-0 down at home to Arsenal. Not hugely surprising, but Dundalk probably want a Molde win which would make it really hard for Rapid to get out of the group.

As it is, Rapid instead know two wins will see them joint second, when it comes down to head-to-head results v Molde

[pineapple stu]

Actually, a quick second for Arsenal as well. 2-0 now

[Nesta99]

3-0 now. Good in that Arsenal are through, Molde still will have plenty to play for. If we did nick a win tonight it might make Molde and Vienna a bit nervous with us having no expectation and can play without pressure. Famous result against Arsenal to progress - we can dream. That Molde pitch plays like a carpet!

[passinginterest]

Good start and then concede from a silly loss of possession. I think Rogers is very questionable for the shot too. It’s a good strike but it’s a long way out and hits the middle of the net, it’s nowhere near top corner but Rogers doesn’t get near it.

[TonyD]

Hoare was terrible for the goal. Had been a decent enough start for Dundalk up to that. Rogers could maybe have done better too.

[TonyD]

And they nearly do it again ! Lucky there.

[pineapple stu]

Big difference compared to the previous game. I had said a key factor was which team had learnt more from the 4-3, and I think it's clear Rapid have. They've improved a lot.
Rogers maybe could have had better footwork for the first - I think there was time for a step or two to the right - but it was a great strike and the bigger issue was the amount of space he was given. Second goal then you had three Dundalk defenders in the six-yard box, yet the Rapid player was still allowed a free header.

The worry now for Dundalk is that, like the first EL campaign, the three teams will have learnt about Dundalk and won't underestimate them again, while Dundalk simply don't have another level to lift themselves to.

[da bishop]

Totally outclassed at the moment,tactically Dundalk have this horrible wrong,poor decision leaving mountney,murray,garthland on bench.Wide open in midfield where Shields fighting a lone battle as colivic,gannon,domigan cant defend at this level .

[Candystripe]

What a waste. Surprised he took thre penalty too.

[TonyD]

Oh that penalty effort was shocking. Thought he should have done better with the header just before it too.

[TonyD]

Four penalties now for Dundalk against Rapid. Mad stuff. Pity about the third goal. 2-1 and it could have been game on.

[sbgawa]

Oduwa is a liability in every sense. Id end up killing him if he played with me

[pineapple stu]

Poxing footybite stream has crashed (or more accurately, it's stuck on a loop of a really annoying ad), so back to text updates I guess.

Looks like it's better for Dundalk this half, but Rapid's defensive weaknesses must still be there to have given away another two penalties.

[Philosophizer]

Dundalk much better in this half. They're controling the game now and putting in a lot of v good deliveries. Looking dangerous and could easily have scored more. Fair play to them for lifting it.

[Nesta99]

Sean Gannon is a player reborn tonight! Now has he had his contract renewed or playing to turn heads. Definitely more like himself. Did go more like a back 4 sp maybe suits him better. Another furstrating night with the usual and often mentioned sloppy stuff, gifting chances. 2nd half the shackles are off and a much better showing. At least when chasing the game gaps at the back happen. Peno miss was criminal, arrogant and showboating stuff from Oduwa (free header missed too). He really has so much to learn and could be a top player, as much for the way he faded after the miss until the 2nd peno. Fats just totallly ignored Odwua when he was looking for the ball again. It shows some character to want to step up again but the way McEleney looked to the bench before handing the ball to Shields was a bit strange. Nice move and lay off for Kelly bar putting in row Z. Some good pressure applied at times but a lack of composure with a final ball - compared to the clinical punishing of mistakes by Vienna.

Chalk it down as a learning curve, different starting line up, and that Vienna are not really a major cut above. Composure, concentration, efficiency, and that elusive element for Irish sides currently clinical finishing of chances.

[osarusan]

Poxing footybite stream has crashed (or more accurately, it's stuck on a loop of a really annoying ad), so back to text updates I guess.

Looks like it's better for Dundalk this half, but Rapid's defensive weaknesses must still be there to have given away another two penalties.

It's live on Virgin Media 2

[TonyD]

Oduwa is a liability in every sense. Id end up killing him if he played with me

Headless chicken. Just spurned two more decent chances.

[pineapple stu]

It's live on Virgin Media 2
Don't have that though.

[TonyD]

Sean Gannon is a player reborn tonight! Now has he had his contract renewed or playing to turn heads. Definitely more like himself. Did go more like a back 4 sp maybe suits him better. Another furstrating night with the usual and often mentioned sloppy stuff, gifting chances. 2nd half the shackles are off and a much better showing. At least when chasing the game gaps at the back happen. Peno miss was criminal, arrogant and showboating stuff from Oduwa (free header missed too). He really has so much to learn and could be a top player, as much for the way he faded after the miss until the 2nd peno. Fats just totallly ignored Odwua when he was looking for the ball again. It shows some character to want to step up again but the way McEleney looked to the bench before handing the ball to Shields was a bit strange. Nice move and lay off for Kelly bar putting in row Z. Some good pressure applied at times but a lack of composure with a final ball - compared to the clinical punishing of mistakes by Vienna.

Chalk it down as a learning curve, different starting line up, and that Vienna are not really a major cut above. Composure, concentration, efficiency, and that elusive element for Irish sides currently clinical finishing of chances.

The difference in quality was at both business ends of the pitch really. Gave up bad goals and couldn’t take the chances they created.

[osarusan]

Oduwa had a lot of energy about him, gets into good positions and can take players on - really good in some ways, but yeah, not good in those crucial moments.

Vienna were much better in the first half and it looked like they had the job done. They eased off in the 2nd, a bit too much, and dundalk could have come back into it but for the penalty miss.

Ability to finish chances a major difference tonight.

[Real ale Madrid]

Don't have that though.

Was it not live on the app?

[pineapple stu]

Oh. I found a link to some website (BT Sport I thought it was?) where it said I could buy a ticket for the match or something.

Ah well. Not mad worried I guess.

[Nesta99]

The difference in quality was at both business ends of the pitch really. Gave up bad goals and couldn’t take the chances they created.

Yup, absolutely. Things is that the defensive lapses/goals were preventable. An ongoing LoI saga that Ive worn out commenting on - self destruct after looking like sides are going to compete. Its more than just quality, its a psychological issue imo. The more pleyers are afraid of a gaffe it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Its a bit different in attack where there is more need to be a higher quality player. Too many times have crucial and practically sitters missed. Woud Hoban have made a difference? He would have made a bigger nuisance of himself getting on the end of crosses for sure but at this level? Ye need the McEleney's stroking them in to the top corner. Gutsy tonight, maybe expectations are unreasonable, but the errors are not due to a lacking in player quality imo.

[da bishop]

Better second half from Dundalk,albeit helped with Rapid starting the half by trying to consolidate their lead and not being overly ambitious.Created a few decent chances mainly through Mceleney passing and maybe the pen miss would have changed things but you,d always feel Rapid had that extra bit to pull away.

[Nesta99]

Better second half from Dundalk,albeit helped with Rapid starting the half by trying to consolidate their lead and not being overly ambitious.Created a few decent chances mainly through Mceleney passing and maybe the pen miss would have changed things but you,d always feel Rapid had that extra bit to pull away.

That's fair too. I dont think that RV were comfortable for decent Dundalk spells or had that extra gear really. They are average in defence, ruthless when given a chance but a bit brittle. If 2-1 or 3-2 going in to the last quarter ye'd never know. They will be found out in the knockouts !

[CorribsideSteve]

Hoare and Cleary had poor games I thought. Can't really blame Rogers for any of the goals though. While it's never nice to concede goals in Europe, at least the ones last night weren't served up on a platter for the opponents. Sure, more effective closing down might have reduced the threat, but they scored 2 absolute crackers to be fair to them. Duffy's the only one at Dundalk that could attempt that. Shields was magnificent, and McEleney was very effective in the 2nd half, both probably Dundalk's best players on the night. Trying not to be too hard, RW were much better than I had expected, but Dundalk were comfortably beaten in the end. Oduwa's about as good as a Mrs Brown's Boys episode. I wouldn't have him in next year's squad. Far too unreliable.

[oriel]

More bad selections by the manager. Gartland should have played over Hoare who was at fault for two goals, Murray for Sloggett and McMillan should have played for at least 75 mins, that's 3 in- form players and he didn't see. Taking McMillan off at HT was just madness, Odawu is useless, his limit is scoring tap ins like 4th goal v Bohs, Shields should have taken both.

D Kelly did well and especially McEleney, both made a diff esp the latter, Murray and Leahy on far too late.

Dundalk were outclassed in the end and of course can have no complaints with the result, its just the continuous self inflicted mistakes on and off the pitch that is the annoyance.

[pineapple stu]

Interesting thing with Oduwa is that for all that he traps the ball farther than I can kick it at times, he was directly involved in three of the four penalties against Rapid. That's not a bad return for what - 75 minutes on the pitch?

But he is a very frustrating player to watch alright. If he were 18, you'd say he had huge potential. But at 24, onto his ninth senior club, having been released by mutual consent from two of the most recent three, you'd have to start thinking he lacks a bit of professionalism maybe? The penalty last night is a point in case. I'd say he's just going to drift out of the game after a few more clubs.

There's been a fair few of these type of players in the LoI recently - I think Derry have had more than their fair share - and it does come back again on the Dundalk recruitment policy. If he does leave in pre-season, will they find better?

In the meantime, off to Molde next week. That'll bring back memories - Erling Haaland playing 30 minutes against a LoI U19 side without scoring :)

[sbgawa]

i would be amazed if Oduwa is there next season, cant score and doesn't track back plus probably on a biggish wedge to get him here to start with.
If the first penelty had gone in it would have made a difference for sure, even at 3 to 1 i thought another goal and RV would be in full on panic mode.
Did they have another gear ? probably yes as they showed in the first half but when panic sets in finding another gear is very hard to do.

The no crowds thing is a real killer, it could be years before any irish team gets to group stages again.
To not be able to attend either as a DFC fan or a nuetral is a royal pain in the butt

[Nesta99]

Pretty sure he is under contrat for next season so he could be, but as Stu mentions he's had mutual consent to terminate contract. He is close to last chance saloon, and McElenys reaction to during the 2nd peno was to completely blank him - a bit more than just being annoyed by the first imo.

[sbgawa]

Pretty sure he is under contrat for next season so he could be, but as Stu mentions he's had mutual consent to terminate contract. He is close to last chance saloon, and McElenys reaction to during the 2nd peno was to completely blank him - a bit more than just being annoyed by the first imo.

I noticed him blanking him alright and id agree thats worse than mere annoyance, his lack of effort to help out the team defensively is unlikely to get him much leeway when he screws up the part of his job he is happy to do.

[pineapple stu]

This is interesting (robbed off twitter) - a comparison of the results in the last round of the Europa League against the expected score. Expected score (xG) is a calculation of how often you should expect various chances to be scored. Dundalk v Rapid has an expected score of 2.73 - 0.99 to Dundalk, but of course ended almost the reverse of that, 3-1 to Rapid. Which means (a) Dundalk really didn't take their chances (and the penalty miss would be a big part of that) and (b) Rapid were very clinical (or were their goals quite preventable?)

It's not how I felt the game went to be honest, although I guess Rapid probably eased up when they went 3-0 up (didn't get much of the second half)

Spurs not giving Ludogorets even a sniff at goal over 90 minutes is very impressive too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En0kohuWMAAcfdY?format=jpg&name=medium

[pineapple stu]

Actually, on the Infogol site, you can see the stats for Dundalk's other games. The 4-3 in Vienna had an expected score of 2.95-2.45 to Rapid (again I presume the two penalties for Dundalk scored quite high - 0.78 each I think), the 3-0 against Arsenal had an expected score of 3.25-0.13, and the game against Molde had an expected score of 1.52-0.40 to Molde (so 2-1 is close enough)

Overall then, Dundalk's expected goals tally is 5.71 (and they've scored 5 goals), and expected goals against tally is 8.71 (and they've conceded 12). On that basis - and Thursday's game skews it a lot - Dundalk's problem is at the back, not up front, curiously. (I say "curiously" - I know Dundalk's goalkeeping issues have been called out here, but there's routine talk at European time, including in this thread, of LoI sides not taking their chances in Europe, but it seems not to be the case too much from this small data sample)

[bennocelt]

Spurs not giving Ludogorets even a sniff at goal over 90 minutes is very impressive too.

Your fav team, they beat Basel here with one shot on target, just one shot! :o

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd have thought 0.99 was pretty low for Rapid as the second goal was a free header from ten yards and the third was a shot from a very good position, plus they had a good few other chances.

[D24Saint]

50k is a huge fine for a LOI club. I’d love to know what was the previous largest fine.

[pineapple stu]

Didn't Pats get a huge one year for not having licensing ready or something else vague? 20+k in my head?

[nigel-harps1954]

Didn't Dundalk get something similar for flying Palestine flags in the ground a couple of years ago?

[pineapple stu]

That was "only" 18k.

The Pats fine was around 2006-08 sort of time. Couldn't find anything with a quick Google though

[EatYerGreens]

50k is a huge fine for a LOI club. I’d love to know what was the previous largest fine.

Or you could argue that it's fair, or even a little low, for transgressions in the Group Stages. As by then clubs are taking home millions.

[Nesta99]

Didn't Dundalk get something similar for flying Palestine flags in the ground a couple of years ago?

That was a hefty original fine bigger than this one but reduced on appeal with a portion suspened. Part was for the flag and part for people standing behind the town goal, Particularly annoying as it was anticipated, the person in question was asked to not produce the flag but it was left with them after it was copped. That stewards didnt move people quickly from their usual vantage point on the grassy knoll which was slack. Other annoying things about that was the inconsistancies between different UEFA delegates as other questionable flags at other grounds werent fined. I think Celtic played in Iceland and a Palestinian flags didnt recieve a fine. Whether it is true or not, a typical Dundalk rumour mill, the delegate was supposedly super fussy compared to previous games (and its was also said he was Isreali??!). The inconsistancies were part of the appeal and it worked. The Green Brigade section was closed in Celtic park the following year.

I suppose you can argue that fines are proportionate to prizemoney, but 50k is a far 'bigger' fine for any LoI club than the similar and meagre fines dished out for racial chanting to large national associations!! This is technical fine though rules are rules, but at times serious issues like rascism seemed to get a slap on the wrist. Maybe we should have given FG a hi viz bib and called him essential security...

[ger121]

1nil down.

[sbgawa]

Quinn is a real mother Theresa , just before Molde scored their first he says "Dundalk are doing really well here" at that point they could already have been a couple down.
Patronising stuff,
Team picked tonight makes sense with the cup final on Sunday.

[pineapple stu]

2-0 now.

Similar story unfortunately - no real composure in front of goal, and at the other end they're playing three centre-backs, yet they've given two free headers inside the six-yard box. Just can't get away with that. And they're not.

[ger121]

They have been shocking at the back for the 5 games. Not clinical enough either. That 2 on 1 prior to the 1st goal is a great example. Arsenal aside it is not the worst group they could have gotten. At least Rovers in 2011 were up against 3 very good sides.