2006 Attendances

[NY Hoop]

How are Rovers best in the division by a mile when Galway's average was higher and Dundalks very similar?

CTID hates summer football and tries to bend any figures to suit this. He would rather we play mudball and subsequently get hammered in Europe. Each to their own.

Anyway it is fairly obvious that attendances in the first division are up because we WERE in it. Every club bar two had their highest gate when we were in town. The two were Athlone, who had their biggest attendance when it was free in at their last ever game in Mels, and Kilkenny who would have got more Hoops down except our two games there were played midweek.

Expect next years crowds to go up IF it is run properly. That is no needless break or midweek games. Or clubs going bust halfway through.

KOH

[Louth4sam]

Have to agree with NYHOOP the first division is a joke, rovers are the only team that brought any away support to oriel. Apart from ourselves and rovers the away support in this division is 0.

[Frankfurt Hoop]

In fairness Dundalk brought a decent crowd to Tolka for both their visits. However, this season we played two home games on Monday nights, three on Tuesdays and one on a Wednesday. A third of our home games were played midweek in this shambles of a league, so even if the clubs had away fans we wouldn't have seen them.

[Terry]

Have to agree with NYHOOP the first division is a joke, rovers are the only team that brought any away support to oriel. Apart from ourselves and rovers the away support in this division is 0.

We would have had a half decent support if ye didnt play all yer games midweek !!!

[sconn]

Have to agree with NYHOOP the first division is a joke, rovers are the only team that brought any away support to oriel. Apart from ourselves and rovers the away support in this division is 0.

if u didnt play ur home games on a thursday night u might get more travelling support

[Conor H]

Have to agree with NYHOOP the first division is a joke, rovers are the only team that brought any away support to oriel. Apart from ourselves and rovers the away support in this division is 0.

Hore**** i'm afraid LouthforSam.
We bring a decent away support consistently to every ground bar yere's due to it been on a Thursday night and been 5+ hours away.
Don't recall Dundalk ever bringing a lrage away support to Terryland until recent times.Still though credit where it's due yee brought a large away support-fair play and long may it continue.

[Battery Rover]

Limerick vs Athlone Town Saturday night. About 150 in attendance of which about 30 were from Athlone.

[Raheny Red]

Limerick vs Athlone Town Saturday night. About 150 in attendance of which about 30 were from Athlone.

That was free in as well :eek:

[oriel]

Hore**** i'm afraid LouthforSam.
We bring a decent away support consistently to every ground bar yere's due to it been on a Thursday night and been 5+ hours away.
Don't recall Dundalk ever bringing a lrage away support to Terryland until recent times.Still though credit where it's due yee brought a large away support-fair play and long may it continue.


Have to stand up for Conor H here, Galway have be considered one of the better supported sides in the country never mind div 1. the other 7 in div 1 have almost zero consistent away support.

We`re making it very hard to attract away fans by continuing to play on thurs, there a lot of dub based dlk fans for eg who dont like thurs nights, i`m one of them ! Fri or Sat has to be a better option.

[Mr A]

Don't forget oriel that's it's not too long since Dundalk only brought a few fans to away games. I've seen several games in Terryland where the I reckon there was less than 10, and not too long ago either, and now ye're pouring scorn on other clubs?

[oriel]

Sorry meant to include finn harps for having a very good support base too.

My point was, for most first div teams, the avg away support is very very limited.

[Partizan]

Personally speaking I dont agree with CTID's doom and gloom merchantry. Waterford's attendances despite the almighty horrendous season we have had hasnt at all collapsed. We are hovering around the 1000-1100 mark constantly for the last 3-4 months and for a side routed at the foot of the PD playing some woefull football at times thats not bad, especially taken into account that we practically get few away fans.

[BohsFans]

That was free in as well :eek:

Why :confused:

[Raheny Red]

Why :confused:

I have not got a clue but I read somewhere over the weekend that it was free admission. Could any Limerick fans clarify this?

[DmanDmythDledge]

I have not got a clue but I read somewhere over the weekend that it was free admission. Could any Limerick fans clarify this?
There's a thread in the Limerick forum saying it was free in.

[Battery Rover]

There's a thread in the Limerick forum saying it was free in.


yep was definitely free in for the Limerick vs Athlone game

[WindmillWarrior]

Having watched el weekly, I find that hard to believe!

Have you got a source:confused:


There was more or less the same crowd as the home game v Derry, though with no away support I reckon thats a fair guess. Remember the majority of the home support will be on the Cross Lanes terrace under the TV gantry!

[exiled_gufc_fan]

FIRST DIVISION
Galway - 1148 (566; 571) DOUBLED AND THEN SOME
...
Rovers - 1089 (1539 PD; 1349 PD) DOWN ON PREMIER FIGURES BUT BEST IN DIVISION MY A MILE


:eek:

Re-read your own words!

[BohsFans]

There was more or less the same crowd as the home game v Derry, though with no away support I reckon thats a fair guess. Remember the majority of the home support will be on the Cross Lanes terrace under the TV gantry!

and TV always gives a few on that side on replays.

We've found out b4 that guess attendances like that are often over estimated.

[CollegeTillIDie]

:eek:

Re-read your own words!

exiled gufc fan
Two swallows don't make a summer.
If Shamrock Rovers, with their fanatical loyal support can lose an average of 500 punters per game in a successful season what chance do the other clubs have? This is probably largely due to a drop in visiting supporters explainable by a lack of Dublin Derbies.

Partizan

Middle of last summer( 2005) when your clubs financial situation was touch and go only 400 bothered to attend one of your home games. That is serious! The club was balanced on a knife edged and only that number could be arsed to support the team.

NY Hoop

I don't hate summer football, the benefits on European performances are there to be seen. However there has been no trickle down effect. The successful clubs are struggling financially, we have almost lost two clubs in the top four from last year in 2006. One club has already folded and another in the First Division is teetering on the brink of going out of business.
I don't enjoy being a doomsday merchant but looking at it without rose tinted glasses you have to admit we have been sold a pup on the attendances front. Whatever figures you look at and I re-read the thread and saw Pineapples stats a couple of pages ahead of my posting. Crowds are down. People do not go to games in large numbers in June July and August. 1/3 of the entire season!

They never did in August, we knew that from the old winter season. We have now compounded that with two other months where it happens.
We have had summer football now in 2003 , 2004, 2005 and 2006, and crowds drop dramatically during those three months there is no getting away from it.
Real football is a much better spectacle,than GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH but for whatever reason the ignorant masses do not see the improvements in the League on the park at all . If they do they cannot be arsed that it is better.
Why is this? I have a theory about it . Supporting a club in a serious League involves going to see them 15-20 times a season miminum and that's just attending home games and local derbies away, as I said elsewhere, Ireland is a commitment phobe society, and that's a level of commitment nobody is prepared to do any more in any aspect of their lives.

There are other factors too which may explain it.
A lot of people have had to move to the extreme perimeters of the commuter belt to such places as South COunty Wicklow, East Laois, North Carlow , North Meath and South Cavan to get affordable housing. These places are so far from EL grounds that percentage of the support cannot go to watch Dublin clubs for one any more.

Diehards like you and I are very thin on the ground these days. Your lot have more of them than the ordinary average club, but your club's very existence is nothing short of miraculous given all the troubles that have plagued you over the past 20 years. Welcome back to the Premier by the way.

That is unless the FAI move the goalposts again :(

P.S. With the number of clubs suffering financial problems this season that we know about, and the one or two that we don't. In an admittedly worst case scenario, we could theoretically lose up to 3 clubs during the winter, leaving a 18 team League.

[NY Hoop]

Clubs in this league would struggle financially no matter when the season is.

KOH

[dcfcsteve]

CTID - if your moan is more about the collective Irish psyche than Summer football (an assertion that I don't buy into anyway) then the big question is - what is the solution ? Are you just saying that football in Ireland is fcuked ? If it is fcuked and there's nothing we can do about it because of the Irish psyche, then what should we all do - moan about it? Just accept it ? Or see if there are ways to tackle it anyway ?

I don't for one second buy into this wannabe-Oprah style analysis of the ills of the Irish nation when it comes to commitment. Frackly it's just bullsh!t. Irish people have no problems loyally following English or Scottish football clubs all their lives. I bet you more people leave the island each week to watch foreign football than leave their homes on a Friday night to watch the domestic game. Irish people also have no problem swith turning out in large crowds to watch Ulster, Munster and Leinster in rugby. They'll flock in their thousands to watch One Horse Town Emmets play Ballyno-one Nonces in a south county minor women's final. They'll pour into horse tracks up and down the country, not to mention facilities like the Greyhound track in Lifford.

That shoWs what is actually the problem with our game. The Emmet Malone article was absolutely spot on - we have a good product, but a woeful image. Therefore, most people neither know nor accept that we have a good product. The way to adddress that, therefore, is not to consatruct a back-of-fag-packet thesis on post-Celtic Tiger Irish society. It's to work to address that image problem.

One of the key ways to tackle the poor image of our league will undoubtedly be European results. And as we've seen over the last few seasons, Summer football makes a direct contribution towards improvement in this area. When the general public stops being surprised by results agaist Swedish or Scottish teams and starts to assume that our clubs will beat decent teams, then the battle of opening minds (and thereby turnstiles) is half-won.

If you thought Summer football was the magic wand to cure Irish football's ills, then that says more about your expectations than it does about our league. No-one said it would be the one thing that would have them flocking to our game in droves. No-one "sold us a pup" - though you may have elected to buy one anyway.

Finally - your assertion re attendances is completely wrong anyway, and I note with interest that you have failed to address the post where I tackled this in some detail. When Pineapple gets round to posting the final final attendance figures, any overall drop versus last season will most likely be very marginal - which in a World Cup year isn't bloody bad at all. Therefore - if you are correct that attendnaces plummet mid-Summer, then they must also be rocketing in Spring and Autumn to broadly maintain the averages. But again - you only look at where the glass is half empty, because that suits your arguement.

Pineapple - please can you update the table with the last few attendnaces so we can at least have our guestimated figures as reflective of the true situation as they're ever likely to be. Thanks.

[Terry]

estimate for the playoff last night in dundalk are coming in between 1650 and 2500 at the moment, since the playoffs are official more league games.

[dcfcsteve]

estimate for the playoff last night in dundalk are coming in between 1650 and 2500 at the moment, since the playoffs are official more league games.

1,650 was the figure The Star gave, and 2,000 from The Indo.

Those fans who were in attendance are suggesting a figure that is averaged at about 2,500 (see separate foot.ie thread on this, or the thread on the Dundalk forum).

As Pineapple usually takes the lowest figure given, he'd be a third out if he took The Star stat over the fan's one.

[pineapple stu]

I'll post an update this evening. Indications are, however, that the overall average will be down 10-12% on last year. Obviously the World Cup would account for a fair bit, but probably not all, of that.

I don't put the play-off games in the averages. But feel free to post them. Obviously the range of figures does indicate the problem with this thread. However, it's helped somewhat by the fact that I ignore what the Star says. :)


exiled gufc fan
Two swallows don't make a summer.
If Shamrock Rovers, with their fanatical loyal support can lose an average of 500 punters per game in a successful season what chance do the other clubs have? This is probably largely due to a drop in visiting supporters explainable by a lack of Dublin Derbies.
You're still ignoring your claim that Rovers' average was the best "by a mile". It wasn't, as Galway's was ahead, and even Dundalk's wasn't too far behind. I don't think the above does anything at all to back up your claim, which was clearly wrong.

Rovers' support, it should be noted, was the most consistent of the above three.

[pineapple stu]

Another update. 2005 and 2004 in brackets. FD and PD indicate average crowd got in a different division to current year. 1 and 2 refer to first round and second round of matches.

Have filled in quite a few gaps since as follows -

Bray v Longford - 600
Cork v St Pat's - 2000
Derry v Sligo - 3000
Longford v Pat's - 400
Sligo v Drogheda - 1500
Sligo v Shels - 1000
Harps v Dundalk - 500
Limerick v Athlone - 150
Limerick v Rovers - 570
Cobh v Rovers - 800

PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - 1463 (1976; 2340)
Bray - 1027 (1550; 818 FD)
Cork - 2941 (3644; 4033)
Derry - 3200 (2698; 1672)
Drogheda - 1751 (1682; 1554)
Dublin City - 488 (175 FD; 592)
Longford - 702 (1004; 1131) (missing Bohs 2)
Pat's - 1342 (1599; 1882)
Shels - 1690 (1949; 2158)
Sligo - 1806 (1794 FD; 781 FD)
UCD - 546 (653; 306 FD)
Waterford - 915 (1513; 1753)

FIRST DIVISION
Athlone - 421 (316; 291)
Cobh - 368 (403; 240) (missing Finn Harps (both) and Limerick 1)
Dundalk - 1078 (474; 591)
Harps - 428 (1347 PD; 1106)
Galway - 1148 (566; 571)
Kildare - 265 (186; 298) (missing Harps 2)
Kilkenny - 122 (185; 110) (missing Cobh (both) and Kildare (both))
Limerick - 364 (669; 188)
Monaghan - 204 (183; 182) (missing Harps 2, Kildare 2 and Limerick 2)
Rovers - 1089 (1539 PD; 1349 PD)

Premier Division average - 1539 (1759)
First Division average - 570 (520)

Overall average - 1071 (1195)

[pineapple stu]

Couple of changes in the top draw rankings. The list is still sorted according to clubs' final ranking in the average crowd stakes.


Team Top
PREMIER DIVISION
Derry City 6,800 v Cork
Cork City 5,500 v Shels
Sligo Rovers 2,900 v Shels
Drogheda United 2,800 v Shels
Shelbourne 4,000 v Bohs
Bohemians 3,104 v Shels
St Pat's Ath 2,145 v Shels
Bray Wanderers 2,800 v Shels
Waterford Utd 1,250 v Derry
Longford Town 1,421 v Sligo
UCD 1,250 v Shels
Dublin City 1,900 v Bohs


FIRST DIVISION
Galway United 3,092 v Rovers
Shamrock Rovers 2,000 v Dundalk
Dundalk 3,500 v Rovers
Finn Harps 700 v Rovers
Athlone Town 2,000 v Monaghan
Cobh Ramblers 800 v Rovers
Limerick FC 1,100 v Rovers
Kildare County 1,100 v Rovers
Monaghan United 800 v Rovers
Kilkenny City 278 v Dundalk

[pineapple stu]

Percentage change in the last thre seasons -


Club Overall 2006 2005
Athlone Town 44.83% 33.21% 8.72%
Bohemians -37.49% -25.97% -15.56%
Bray Wanderers 25.56% -33.76% 89.57%
Cobh Ramblers 53.19% -8.49% 67.40%
Cork City -27.09% -19.31% -9.64%
Derry City 91.34% 18.60% 61.33%
Drogheda United 12.66% 4.08% 8.24%
Dublin City -17.55% 179.64% -70.52%
Dundalk 82.31% 127.38% -19.82%
Finn Harps -61.33% -68.23% 21.73%
Galway United 101.11% 102.77% -0.82%
Kildare County -10.83% 42.47% -37.41%
Kilkenny City 10.78% -34.05% 67.96%
Limerick FC 93.38% -45.52% 254.95%
Longford Town -37.95% -30.14% -11.18%
Monaghan United 11.70% 11.09% 0.55%
St Pat's Ath -28.70% -16.06% -15.06%
Shamrock Rovers -19.24% -29.19% 14.05%
Shelbourne -21.70% -13.27% -9.72%
Sligo Rovers 131.11% 0.63% 129.67%
UCD 78.20% -16.43% 113.24%
Waterford Utd -47.82% -39.52% -13.72%

Premier -16.94% -12.53% -5.04%
First 11.25% 9.57% 1.54%

Overall average -12.10% -10.36% -1.94%

The columns from left to right are % change from 2004 to 2006, from 2004 to 2005 and from 2005 to 2006. Figures in bold indicate a season in a new division.

[holidaysong]

2,500 at the Dundalk vs. Waterford Utd playoff game is the consensus among Dundalk fans.

[oriel]

2,500 at the Dundalk vs. Waterford Utd playoff game is the consensus among Dundalk fans.

Yeah 2,500 sounds about right. decent turn out as less than 50 were away fans, awful night, champs lge etc

[dcfcsteve]

Derry v Sligo - 3000


Crowd from that game was 3,500 Pineapple - as communicated on previous page. You said you'd be using the 3,500 figures as well.

[dcfcsteve]

Percentage change in the last thre seasons -


Club Overall 2006 2005
Athlone Town 44.83% 33.21% 8.72%
Bohemians -37.49% -25.97% -15.56%
Bray Wanderers 25.56% -33.76% 89.57%
Cobh Ramblers 53.19% -8.49% 67.40%
Cork City -27.09% -19.31% -9.64%
Derry City 91.34% 18.60% 61.33%
Drogheda United 12.66% 4.08% 8.24%
Dublin City -17.55% 179.64% -70.52%
Dundalk 82.31% 127.38% -19.82%
Finn Harps -61.33% -68.23% 21.73%
Galway United 101.11% 102.77% -0.82%
Kildare County -10.83% 42.47% -37.41%
Kilkenny City 10.78% -34.05% 67.96%
Limerick FC 93.38% -45.52% 254.95%
Longford Town -37.95% -30.14% -11.18%
Monaghan United 11.70% 11.09% 0.55%
St Pat's Ath -28.70% -16.06% -15.06%
Shamrock Rovers -19.24% -29.19% 14.05%
Shelbourne -21.70% -13.27% -9.72%
Sligo Rovers 131.11% 0.63% 129.67%
UCD 78.20% -16.43% 113.24%
Waterford Utd -47.82% -39.52% -13.72%

Premier -16.94% -12.53% -5.04%
First 11.25% 9.57% 1.54%

Overall average -12.10% -10.36% -1.94%

The columns from left to right are % change from 2004 to 2006, from 2004 to 2005 and from 2005 to 2006. Figures in bold indicate a season in a new division.


The joy of stats !

Two quick questions before some analysis. Are we missing a column for 2004 above ? Also - is the Overall change figure of 12.10% the change from 2004 to 2006, or 2005 to 2006.

Crowds are down but they're up !
The joy of stats is that you can use them to say anything. For example, the above could be interpreted to say that attendances are actually broadly up in the league - as the majority of clubs (55%) have actually had an increase in average attendances over time. When you add in the fact that one of the teams that has had a decline is now no longer in existence (Dublin City) then 57+% of existing teams saw their crowds increase across the period reflected above.

No real surprises in there !
If you look at the stats - teams that had a better year this year than last have pretty much all all seen attedances rise. Those who've had a worse year (and/or been in a lower league) have seen them fall. The only exception to this is Shels - who, as we all know have never had a particularly large or loyal fan base anyway.

A Dublin-lead decline ?
You could argue that the main story from the above stats is the decline in attendances of the Dublin clubs over time. Shels, Bohs, Pats Shamrock Rovers and Dublin City all had significant drops in attendance, meaning only one club in the capital (UCD) saw an increase. So outside of Dublin, the vast majority (69%) of clubs saw attendances increase. This should be no great surprise really, for a number of reasons. Firstly - Dublin clubs are much more reliant upon each other for crowds than teams outside the City, due to the greater than average number of away fans they provide to each other. So if a couple of Dublin teams are struggling league-wise (e.g. Bohs and Pats) this will obviously impact their own crowds, and in-turn impact the other Dublin teams greater than it will non-Dublin teams. For the last 2 seasons in a row, only one Dublin club has finished in a Top 5 league position. For perspective - the last time only a single Dublin club finished in the Top 5 was in 1979/80, and you have to go back 30 years to 1975-77 for the last time only one Dublin clubn finished in the Top 5 for 2 seasons in a row. That's back to the era of Cork Hibernians, Galway Rovers, Thurles Town and Limerick United. Also - no Dublin team has won the FAI cup for the last 5 years - whereas in the 3 years from 1975-77 at least the Cup was claimed by a Dublin team twice. For a league that has traditionally been substantially dominated by teams from the capital, we appear to be in a uniquely difficult period for our capital's clubs. Even with Bohs' money, does anyone genuinely expect more than 1 Dublin club to finish in the Top 5 next season, for example ?

Secondly - the fact that none of the Dublin teams really have any strong local roots doubtless doesn't help them maintain crowds through the lean times (although to be fair it hasn't helped Cork much in the stats either).

Thirdly - would it be fair to argue that Summer football could impact Dublin teams greater than those outside of the capital, given the greater income and tranisent nature of the capitals' population ? Do more Dubs take more holidays in the Summer than us mere mortals down the country ? A moot but interesting point.

Conclusion
From our stats, attendances across the league appear to have fallen about 10% in the last year, and about 12% across the last 2 seasons. But they've fallen year-on-year where you'd expect them to have fallen, and risen year-on-year where you'd expect them to rise as well. Also - the overall decline appears to have been particualy marked amongst clubs from the capital, where despite hosting the league winners the on-field fortunes of Dublin teams have generally been at their lowest ebb for 30 years.

Margin of Error
Finally - the old margin of error whorry chestnut. The above stats are just damn good guesses, usually conservative ones, and not fact. They are purely indicative, and can't really be relied upon to any great degree for accuracy. It is highly likely that the margin for error in them would completely distort the picture, but it would be fair to say that the overall picture would probably be of a slight decline regardless of the margin.

Pineapple - great job on pulling these stats together for another year. I await the inevitable barrage of statistical cross-examination from all and sundry... :D

[exiled_gufc_fan]

Irish people also have no problem swith turning out in large crowds to watch Ulster, Munster and Leinster in rugby.

This is a relatively recent development too. Not so many years ago one man and a dog was the total sum of attendance and some interprovincial games.

Shows what can be done!

[pineapple stu]

Crowd from that game was 3,500 Pineapple - as communicated on previous page. You said you'd be using the 3,500 figures as well.
Mea culpa. I'll change.


The joy of stats !

Two quick questions before some analysis. Are we missing a column for 2004 above ? Also - is the Overall change figure of 12.10% the change from 2004 to 2006, or 2005 to 2006.
First answer - nope, because you can't have a percentage change from 2004 to 2004. I've disregarded 2003 as the figures were way too high and only 75% complete. Second answer is in the post you quoted. ;)


Crowds are down but they're up !
The joy of stats is that you can use them to say anything. For example, the above could be interpreted to say that attendances are actually broadly up in the league - as the majority of clubs (55%) have actually had an increase in average attendances over time. When you add in the fact that one of the teams that has had a decline is now no longer in existence (Dublin City) then 57+% of existing teams saw their crowds increase across the period reflected above.
I don't think this argument stands up to any sort of scrutiny, and I hope you don't intend it to (although I've first hand experience of your maths before :eek:). You can't offset Sligo's increase of 0.6% against Cork's drop of 19%, nor Monaghan's increase of 11% against Bohs' 26%. Obviously, in the former case, the 19% decrease far outweighs the 0.6% increase, even before you consider that the 19% decrease was on a much higher starting point than the 0.6% increase. Similarly, Monaghan's 11% increase was only about 15 people in real terms, whereas Bohs' decrease was about 500. So it's utterly pointless to say that half the teams showed increases and conclude that crowds are up. That's why we have the average movement, which shows a 10% decrease this year.

[dcfcsteve]

I don't think this argument stands up to any sort of scrutiny, and I hope you don't intend it to (although I've first hand experience of your maths before :eek:). You can't offset Sligo's increase of 0.6% against Cork's drop of 19%, nor Monaghan's increase of 11% against Bohs' 26%. Obviously, in the former case, the 19% decrease far outweighs the 0.6% increase, even before you consider that the 19% decrease was on a much higher starting point than the 0.6% increase. Similarly, Monaghan's 11% increase was only about 15 people in real terms, whereas Bohs' decrease was about 500. So it's utterly pointless to say that half the teams showed increases and conclude that crowds are up. That's why we have the average movement, which shows a 10% decrease this year.

But the point is that the majority of clubs themselves have experienced an increase in attendance. Let's be honest here - Sligo, Drogheda, Derry, UCD etc don't really give a feck that Bohs have haemorraged support, that the arse has fallen out of Waterford's world or that the overall average is down. All they know is that their active fan-base has grown, and that's frankly all they care about.

The majority of clubs therefore appear to have had a positive attendance experience over the last 2 years - regardless of how small - so the majority of clubs could be considered to be better off nw. Hence the dichotomy of league-wide attendance figures being down - driven primarily by big drops at certain clubs- yet the majority of clubs have had a positive attendance experience on an individual club-basis.

Neither suspect maths nor rocket science, my dear Watson....

[pineapple stu]

The ultimate end of that theory is a league where we're all happy the average crowd at a game is 500. And ultimately, if the league is dropping support overall, this will sooner or later hit those clubs who are, for now, showing rises. Those clubs whose crowds are up because they're doing well will show decreases when they start to fade away, and those who are currently doing poorly and have dropping support will start to show increased crowds when they start doing well. The only constant in all of this is the average, as it stands to reason that the average league position of each team within the system we call the league can neither fall nor rise, and in this instance, we see a drop within the whole system of 10%.

So maybe not suspect maths - I never claimed it was - but still largely irrelevant.

[pete]

I think the increased number of Setanta Cup & European competition games has hit the average attendances of the top clubs. I know our attendances are down (i think lack of shed end has had big impact) but there is no doubt our core support has risen in recent years. It is now rare for us to get lower than 2000 at any game. With so many games to attend fans can't make all them so they have to make choices. I would be much more interested in the total numbers at all games as thats what for people such as advertisers are interested in.

[Raheny Red]

What was the name of the thread from the start of the season about trying to make it to all your own club's games for the season just gone?:confused: :ball:

[Schumi]

the average league position of each team within the system we call the league can neither fall nor riseUntrue, the average league position improved by 0.5 places this year.

[trevy]

For the record about 1400 at the play off at RSC Saturday night including at least 400 Dundalk fans. That was the biggest away support I've seen at the RSC this season and it made for a great atmosphere.

[bluemovie]

Spot on, trevy. I would have said 1400 too, but I don't know if post-season friendlies should count towards the attendance thread ;) .

[pineapple stu]

Untrue, the average league position improved by 0.5 places this year.
Now now - Dublin City finished twelfth and their attendance increase - recorded above - reflects that. ;)

[dcfcsteve]

Mea culpa. I'll change.

Have you got the final, final, FINAL - don't no-one go requesting any more changes - attendance details yet Pineapple ? The one with the extra 500 for the DCFC v Sligo game in ?

[pineapple stu]

Not yet, but you can work it out. Add an extra 3 people to the overall average, and about 30 to Derry's average. Not going to change anything significantly. Crowds still down c 10%.

[Partizan]

Spot on, trevy. I would have said 1400 too, but I don't know if post-season friendlies should count towards the attendance thread ;) .
Ditto that.

Approx 400 Dundalk fans

[adamcarr]

Ditto that.

Approx 400 Dundalk fans

We brought around 400-500 aswell earlier on in the year to see the worst game of football ever witnessed.

[dcfcsteve]

Article in Tuesday's London Times about Sepp Blatter and Summer football.

Had a column on the Eircom league switch to Summer football, and reported that it has lead to neither a fall or an increase in attendances to any significant degree.....

[CollegeTillIDie]

Crowds still down c 10%.

In spite of my error regarding Galway United's attendances this season over Shamrock Rovers, my thesis that crowds are down confirmed by yourself.

Proves my point really!

[pineapple stu]

Had a column on the Eircom league switch to Summer football, and reported that it has lead to neither a fall or an increase in attendances to any significant degree.....
Did it quote a source?

[dcfcsteve]

In spite of my error regarding Galway United's attendances this season over Shamrock Rovers, my thesis that crowds are down confirmed by yourself.

Proves my point really!

Nothing has been proven.

1) These are indicative figures, and can't be taken as fact.

2) The margin for error in them is highly likely to be bigger than the estimated year-on-year difference in attendances.

3) The Times obviously have a source that stated that crowds haven't changed significantly.

4) What was your point anyway ? If it was that Summer football is seeing falling crowds, then there is nothing to link the 2 directly together as cause and effect.

Ergo, you've proven nothing....