LOI in Europe 2022

[CorribsideSteve]

Congrats Rovers! More progression for the League.

[placid casual]

2-0. Ultimately the expected result against a league ranked in the 50s. Well done Rovers. Wouldn't give them no chance against Ferencvaros either
You seem to have inherited the mantle of my post as chief begrudger on this site.
They were woeful up front and we looked disinterested in playing any football until Burkey came on. Suddenly we play ball and coast into the group stages. Thank you and goodnight.

[legendz]

Great achievement! Well done Shamrock Rovers! 6 games played. 8 more to look forward to!

[Nesta99]

The absence of calamity moments this year is almost making things dull:D

[pineapple stu]

You seem to have inherited the mantle of my post as chief begrudger on this site.
Not really. I can understand why a Rovers fan might have taken the game cautiously - although your caution was taking things to ridiculous extremes I think - but the rest of us are looking at a low-ranked side that barely dispatched Gibraltar opposition in the first round.

The group stage will be interesting. Whichever one it is.

[paul_oshea]

You seem to have inherited the mantle of my post as chief begrudger on this site.
They were woeful up front and we looked disinterested in playing any football until Burkey came on. Suddenly we play ball and coast into the group stages. Thank you and goodnight.

If you look at it purely from a logical and emotionless perspective what he's saying is fair really. Isn't he an accountant or bookkeeper or something so it makes sense :P

[Philosophizer]

The absence of calamity moments this year is almost making things dull:D
Shkupi keeper had a major calamity tonight. Similar to CSKA keeper last week.
We just happen to be on the right side of the calamities this year.

[ger121]

Nobody tell the FAI but we are up to 36th in the Co-efficient rankings

[joey B]

How much did that win guarantee for Rovers?

[2 Year Contract]

How much did that win guarantee for Rovers?

Not sure how much in isolation but even if they lost to Ferencvaros they’re now guaranteed over €3.3m

[ontheotherhand]

Nobody tell the FAI but we are up to 36th in the Co-efficient rankings

Visualize, (leave all the hard work to other people), Actualize.

[legendz]

Virgin Media have escaped criticism so far for their zero interest in Irish football. With the TV rights kicking in for the playoff round, they will have to trouble themselves to actually show an interest.
RTÉ previously sublet games to Virgin Media. I think it was for Euro 2020, held in 2021. Maybe Virgin Media could sublet the Rovers games to RTÉ if possible?

[Nesta99]

You seem to have inherited the mantle of my post as chief begrudger on this site.
They were woeful up front and we looked disinterested in playing any football until Burkey came on. Suddenly we play ball and coast into the group stages. Thank you and goodnight.

Bit premature for that call PC, wait untill Dundalk are back in Europe!!

While there will always be some help needed from the draw, we are now at what should be the minimum target for our champions. Get through rounds where seeded and mix it up well in subsequent ties especially when dropping through the competitions. Free hit to make EL groups but ECL groups on a regular basis if not every single year. I think there is room for better optimism and expectation from our clubs. It will take those who are not on the champions path to make inroads too and that has happened 2 years at least on the spin with Pats still to go this year. Sligo made progress as the least expected to do so and Derry...well just not good. It was a chance for all clubs to progress one round minimum so the gauntlet has been well and truly thrown down for next year within reason and reasonable opposition.

[Nesta99]

Virgin Media have escaped criticism so far for their zero interest in Irish football. With the TV rights kicking in for the playoff round, they will have to trouble themselves to actually show an interest.
RTÉ previously sublet games to Virgin Media. I think it was for Euro 2020, held in 2021. Maybe Virgin Media could sublet the Rovers games to RTÉ if possible?

Anyone know what Rovers had to do to get the Mad Macedonians to allow the stream go ahead, Delivery of a few kitchen sinks?

[legendz]

While there will always be some help needed from the draw, we are now at what should be the minimum target for our champions. Get through rounds where seeded and mix it up well in subsequent ties especially when dropping through the competitions. Free hit to make EL groups but ECL groups on a regular basis if not every single year. Agreed. Qualifying rounds are fraught with danger but getting to the Europa Conference group stage should be a reasonable grounded expectation. It is a case of losing 2 rounds and winning 2 rounds. An achievable target.

I think there is room for better optimism and expectation from our clubs. It will take those who are not on the champions path to make inroads too and that has happened 2 years at least on the spin with Pats still to go this year. Sligo made progress as the least expected to do so and Derry...well just not good. It was a chance for all clubs to progress one round minimum so the gauntlet has been well and truly thrown down for next year within reason and reasonable opposition. The non champions path is difficult. No wiggle room or second chances. Two years in a row getting 2 teams to round 3. Getting 2 non champions to the playoffs consistently will be great progression.
When a LoI team gets to the playoff round, that's essentially their European final. It should be embraced as such and also respected by the wider supposed football community who are more caught up in football matters across the water.

[sbgawa]

How much did that win guarantee for Rovers?
AFAIK rovers were guaranteed 1.4 million if they didn't make groups and now get minimum 3.3m

[Knocklyonhoop]

That’s gross. 4 more away trips and you’d be sure the lads have good bonuses too. But 4 full houses at home, tv money potentially and perhaps sponsors bonus might cover a good bit of that

[Knocklyonhoop]

Bit premature for that call PC, wait untill Dundalk are back in Europe!!

While there will always be some help needed from the draw, we are now at what should be the minimum target for our champions. Get through rounds where seeded and mix it up well in subsequent ties especially when dropping through the competitions. Free hit to make EL groups but ECL groups on a regular basis if not every single year. I think there is room for better optimism and expectation from our clubs. It will take those who are not on the champions path to make inroads too and that has happened 2 years at least on the spin with Pats still to go this year. Sligo made progress as the least expected to do so and Derry...well just not good. It was a chance for all clubs to progress one round minimum so the gauntlet has been well and truly thrown down for next year within reason and reasonable opposition.

has to be the minimum target alright but co efficient has a big impact?

[ger121]

Is that 18 wins over the last two seasons in Europe and still a minimum of 10 games to go this year.

[2 Year Contract]

That’s gross. 4 more away trips and you’d be sure the lads have good bonuses too. But 4 full houses at home, tv money potentially and perhaps sponsors bonus might cover a good bit of that

Could be wrong but I think TV money is included in the UEFA prize money as the rights are already settled (clubs can’t sell individual match rights to the highest bidder as they can in qualifying rounds).

[Nesta99]

has to be the minimum target alright but co efficient has a big impact?

I think we are at a point were the contenders for Europe all have a recent record and some certainly would be seeded early on or could be in a position to push closer to seeding. Dundalk obviously would still be seeded if we qualify even with the year out. Collectively though we should be losing the real fear factor in the early rounds bar a stinker of a draw and we are finding that clubs that on paper should be well able for us, turn out to be beatable, not half as scary as pre match assessments. To use Dundalk again as an example, with a proper keeper and not having a spoofer as a defender we could well have reached a playoff round after Vitesse (the perfectly good early Duffy goal chalked off and the clatter of chances in the home leg showed it and with our poor domestic form) was possible with some common sense recruitment and team selection. We all just have to be better at believing the possibilities. Stu above has suggested the Ferencvaros could be pushed by Rovers and I think he is right and that is symptomatic of some sort of sea change in LoI attitudes to European opposition.

Say Rovers, Derry, Dundalk, and St Pats qualify next season, each are either seeded or have improved their coeff and maybe seeding, and a lot of experience in managing the games and intensity of the schedule is happening. I dont think it is happening on a boom and bust cycle so there is a good chance that bar the odd other club, there will be those that qualify regularly and accumulate what is needed to progress. We will have bad seasons but I think a general improvement over a period of time will become evident.

Build a consistent platform and we might even justify sports funding to regenerate some of the grounds and their vicinity. I think improvement in Europe and how it can develop teams can rub off on domestic opposition - even if it just makes things a bit more attractive for players coming in, players being retained from youth ranks, justifying better transfer fees well a rising tide lifts all boats imo. It is where LoI can grow new support bases as LoI bashing gets less. In 10/11 years there have or will be 4 group stage participants and others pushing in that direction to and that is so much more benefit that one offs be they good or bad.

[legendz]

Riga were a tough draw for Derry. They drew with Gil Vicente in the first leg. The Viking result from last week. Noone is taking CSKA Sofia for granted ahead of the second leg. The qualifiers really are fraught with danger. The two safety nets give the league's champion a great opportunity. Well done to Shamrock Rovers for availing of it.
If the two safety nets were in use when Dundalk and Cork were consistently the top 2, Dundalk would have enjoyed a few more group stage campaigns. I don't think Cork would have taken advantage of the double safety net however.

[2 Year Contract]

I’m looking forward to Shkupi's next statement after this :D

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/shamrock-rovers-land-back-dublin-27702097

[pineapple stu]

Visualize, (leave all the hard work to other people), Actualize.
Hey - the FAI created the environment for this success.

Or something.

The money is mental - triple what Rovers got the first time they reached the EL groups (and much easier to earn too), and is the money for reaching the ECL groups more than Dundalk got for reaching the EL groups two years ago?

Anyone know what this means for the UEFA Solidarity payments? Or is it only CL group qualification that really ramps that up?

[LOI101]

Could be wrong but I think TV money is included in the UEFA prize money as the rights are already settled (clubs can’t sell individual match rights to the highest bidder as they can in qualifying rounds).

You're right. The prize money is a distribution of the competition's commercial income such as TV rights, competition sponsors etc.

[nr637]

Any news on ticket sales for St. Pats, Europa Conference League Qualification return leg in Tallaght on Thursday?

[2 Year Contract]

Any news on ticket sales for St. Pats, Europa Conference League Qualification return leg in Tallaght on Thursday?

Close to 6,000 tickets sold. With continued positive ticket sales today and potential walk ups on the day I reckon it could be a bigger crowd than the 6,400 that were at rovers vs Shkupi last week

[Kiki Balboa]

As far as I can tell, Aidomo Emakhu has scored more goals in Europe than Domestic. Bit strange stat.

[2 Year Contract]

As far as I can tell, Aidomo Emakhu has scored more goals in Europe than Domestic. Bit strange stat.

Yep, 3 European goals vs 2 league goals. There can’t be too many players like that at clubs. Off the top of my head Fabio O'Brien with Pats was one, 4 euro goals vs 2 league goals (all massively important goals!) although he was only on loan for half a season

[Bunny Kelly]

As far as I can tell, Aidomo Emakhu has scored more goals in Europe than Domestic. Bit strange stat.


Curious if he sees out this window at Rovers, Leece's bid would suggest he is on some Europeans clubs radar & goals in europe probably a greater selling point than domestic for someone to pull the trigger.

As an aside you'd like to hope Irish sides doing better in Europe will open the door for more of these European transfers where we can get more money than from Lge 1 in England

[Straightstory]

Not really. I can understand why a Rovers fan might have taken the game cautiously - although your caution was taking things to ridiculous extremes I think - but the rest of us are looking at a low-ranked side that barely dispatched Gibraltar opposition in the first round.

The group stage will be interesting. Whichever one it is.

Or - a side which ran Dinamo Zagreb very close in the last round; a Dinamo team which comfortably disposed of Rovers' conquerors Ludogorets. You can look at this a few ways - although I agree we should be expecting to beat teams from countries below us in the rankings.

[pineapple stu]

I agree we should be expecting to beat teams from countries below us in the rankings.
That's what it comes down to for me. North Macedonia is one of Europe's poorest and smallest countries, and has one of its weakest leagues (because population size, wealth, and strength of league often correlate) that's never really achieved anything in European competition (which is why it's ranked 50th). We've spoken about the mindset of players going into these games, that maybe they're not expecting to lose like before. That has to go for fans too though - so placid casual expressing caution at the idea that three defeats would get Rovers into the group stage is ridiculous, as is the idea that I'm being begrudging by saying "Well done, but it was expected" when Rovers won. It wasn't straightforward, but that's fine. Shkupi aren't complete amateurs.

Losing 5-2 to Flora last year was as bad a result as the LoI has had in Europe in many years. It's good to see Rovers have put that behind them.

[sbgawa]

That's what it comes down to for me. North Macedonia is one of Europe's poorest and smallest countries, and has one of its weakest leagues (because population size, wealth, and strength of league often correlate) that's never really achieved anything in European competition (which is why it's ranked 50th). We've spoken about the mindset of players going into these games, that maybe they're not expecting to lose like before. That has to go for fans too though - so placid casual expressing caution at the idea that three defeats would get Rovers into the group stage is ridiculous, as is the idea that I'm being begrudging by saying "Well done, but it was expected" when Rovers won. It wasn't straightforward, but that's fine. Shkupi aren't complete amateurs.

Losing 5-2 to Flora last year was as bad a result as the LoI has had in Europe in many years. It's good to see Rovers have put that behind them.

I think the rule of thumb about population / wealth is a decent catch all and has validity but it can be misleading also.
In a large scale example take Ligue 1 in France PSG operate on a budget that has no relation to the strength of the league.
Equally Ludogorets operate outside the normal Bulgarian realm with some Pharmaceutical Billionaire paying to have them win the last 11 or 12 league titles after he bought them as a second division team , got them promoted and went on this long winning run.

Shkupi are an Albanian team (shkupi is Albanian for Skopje) who just happen to play in Macedonia as a fait acompli after the break up of Yugoslavia and they have a rich Turkish owner and might be heading the same direction as Ludogorets.

In general though population and wealth are a good way of considering the overall strength of the league as a whole

[pineapple stu]

For sure - and Rovers have a billionaire backer who has put a couple of mill into an academy which produced one of the players who scored against Shkupi of course. And European cash distorts as well.

But over the past five years, North Macedonian teams, including Shkupi, have achieved nothing in Europe and LoI teams really should be going into those games expecting to win. And Rovers did win, so fair dues. An expected win for me, but a solid one. No more than that, but certainly no less than that either.

[sbgawa]

For sure - and Rovers have a billionaire backer who has put a couple of mill into an academy which produced one of the players who scored against Shkupi of course. And European cash distorts as well.

But over the past five years, North Macedonian teams, including Shkupi, have achieved nothing in Europe and LoI teams really should be going into those games expecting to win. And Rovers did win, so fair dues. An expected win for me, but a solid one. No more than that, but certainly no less than that either.

The academy was there since 2016, DD only bought in 3 years ago but i take your point.
I dont think the wealthy backers of PAts or Derry have put any less in tbh so i dont think its exactly PSG distortion in Ireland :) but then again the Derry Gallacticos are coming apparantly.

[EatYerGreens]

Great work by Rovers last night. That's the 4th time an Irish club has qualified for European group stages in the last 11yrs (since 2012), which is a surprising stat really. If we can continue that trend of one getting into the group stages every 2-3 seasons then I'm sure we'd take that currently - although expectations are increasing to the point where we'll soon expect it every other year.

It does undermine the theory that our best era in Europe was the 2000s.

[legendz]

It does undermine the theory that our best era in Europe was the 2000s.In terms of comparison, you'd have to factor in the change in structures. Every other year is a fair expectation with the current format. The league's champion can lose 2 qualifying rounds and still get through to the Conference group stage.

[D24Saint]

Tickets going well ahead of tomorrow. The east stand is nearly sold out aswell. It looks to be 6000 there tomorrow at least.

[sbgawa]

In terms of comparison, you'd have to factor in the change in structures. Every other year is a fair expectation with the current format. The league's champion can lose 2 qualifying rounds and still get through to the Conference group stage.


Only if they win their first match.
If Our Champions lose the first round another loss has them out.
Hence why seeding so important although even then you can get very unlucky.

[sbgawa]

Tickets going well ahead of tomorrow. The east stand is nearly sold out aswell. It looks to be at least 6000 there tomorrow at least.


CSKA are a big draw although ironically they haven't won the league in over a decade as Ludogarets have won it every year for last 10 or 11 years.
I'm going to pop along and cheers for Pats (think about the co efficient :) )
Having suffered through 73 minutes of defending a 2 goal lead last night i don't envy {Pats fans knowing every time CSKA go forward the lead could evaporate.
Rovers didnt have to score just stop the Mad Macedonians from scoring two but i think PAts have to score if they are to go through.

[Nesta99]

In terms of comparison, you'd have to factor in the change in structures. Every other year is a fair expectation with the current format. The league's champion can lose 2 qualifying rounds and still get through to the Conference group stage.

I think using something like 'perceived success' is needed when making comparisons (taken from RPE in sports science). Not many will almost forensically look at the arguments for or against an era being better or worse. At face value though the current era (from 2012) could easily be perceived as the most successful by LoI in Europe, simply due to participation in groups and teams progressing through qualifiers.

[Nesta99]

CSKA are a big draw although ironically they haven't won the league in over a decade as Ludogarets have won it every year for last 10 or 11 years.
I'm going to pop along and cheers for Pats (think about the co efficient :) )
Having suffered through 73 minutes of defending a 2 goal lead last night i don't envy {Pats fans knowing every time CSKA go forward the lead could evaporate.
Rovers didnt have to score just stop the Mad Macedonians from scoring two but i think PAts have to score if they are to go through.

Just on that, I see Bradley had a good auld rant about having to fly in to Shannon when other sides were able to fly in to Dublin and it needs to be sorted. Funny thing is, its was reported that the Rovers flight in to Dublin was diverted to Shannon due to fog. Either Bradley was playing it up for Skhupi or he is showing a bit of madness himself - he doesnt have to mention evil stuff as its just a known when Rovers are involved;)

[Philosophizer]

The introduction of the ECL, meaning more European qualifying rounds, and the champions path, is a game changer for smaller leagues like ours.
It's not unreasonable to think we could have teams regularly enough reaching group stages.
The champions path makes all the difference. The key thing tho is that our champions win that 1st match every year. Then you've got a great chance. Having a champion with a decent coefficient and seeding gives them a massive opportunity.
There's a big opportunity now for our top teams to really cement their place at the top of Irish football if they can stay consistently strong. Good European results now will improve seedings which make it more likely to a better draw in that 1st game in the champions path.

[ontheotherhand]

Just on that, I see Bradley had a good auld rant about having to fly in to Shannon when other sides were able to fly in to Dublin and it needs to be sorted. Funny thing is, its was reported that the Rovers flight in to Dublin was diverted to Shannon due to fog. Either Bradley was playing it up for Skhupi or he is showing a bit of madness himself - he doesnt have to mention evil stuff as its just a known when Rovers are involved;)

Other way around Nesta. It was diverted to Dublin when they failed to land in Shannon twice due to fog. Derry obviously down there with a billion euros worth of smoke machines.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Just on that, I see Bradley had a good auld rant about having to fly in to Shannon when other sides were able to fly in to Dublin and it needs to be sorted. Funny thing is, its was reported that the Rovers flight in to Dublin was diverted to Shannon due to fog. Either Bradley was playing it up for Skhupi or he is showing a bit of madness himself - he doesnt have to mention evil stuff as its just a known when Rovers are involved;)
It was diverted to Dublin from Shannon. After a couple of attempts to land at that, before diverting.

[ontheotherhand]

The introduction of the ECL, meaning more European qualifying rounds, and the champions path, is a game changer for smaller leagues like ours.
It's not unreasonable to think we could have teams regularly enough reaching group stages.
The champions path makes all the difference. The key thing tho is that our champions win that 1st match every year. Then you've got a great chance. Having a champion with a decent coefficient and seeding gives them a massive opportunity.
There's a big opportunity now for our top teams to really cement their place at the top of Irish football if they can stay consistently strong. Good European results now will improve seedings which make it more likely to a better draw in that 1st game in the champions path.

It's absolutely massive but as you say that first game is critical and rovers basically got the kindest draw possible in it. I think we are a few years away from thinking the ECL groups are the minimum target. We had a great draw and we put in some great performances to get there. I'd give future Irish champions a 30% chance of doing it for the next while. It's the right target but it shouldn't be seen as failure if it doesn't happen. You almost need to be seeded and then you still need to dodge so many big clubs.

[Nesta99]

Other way around Nesta. It was diverted to Dublin when they failed to land in Shannon twice due to fog. Derry obviously down there with a billion euros worth of smoke machines.

Ah, RTE reporting for ye! Uusally flights are diverted to Cork from Shannon so bit lucky on that one.

[joey B]

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/shamrock-rovers-enquire-aviva-stadium-27707268

Rovers enquiring about using the Aviva for the group stages……

[legendz]

The introduction of the ECL, meaning more European qualifying rounds, and the champions path, is a game changer for smaller leagues like ours.
It's not unreasonable to think we could have teams regularly enough reaching group stages.
The champions path makes all the difference. The key thing tho is that our champions win that 1st match every year. Then you've got a great chance. Having a champion with a decent coefficient and seeding gives them a massive opportunity.
There's a big opportunity now for our top teams to really cement their place at the top of Irish football if they can stay consistently strong. Good European results now will improve seedings which make it more likely to a better draw in that 1st game in the champions path.There were winners and losers from the current 3 year cycle of a never ending changing UEFA format. The big leagues are guaranteed 4 automatic qualifiers in the Champions League. This squeezed out some clubs who had been starting to qualify regularly.
The League of Ireland coefficient ranking and performance was at a level where the league's champion were missing out on Europa League qualification more often than not. The introduction of the Conference League however is great for our league. It tips the balance that the league's champion can realistically qualify for the Conference League more often than not.

[yurt]

This is the how the co-efficient table is shaping up for 2025, still fairly unlikely for the FAI to hit their top 30 goal but could very well be within that ballpark. https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/crank2025.html

Part of the jump is due to a couple leagues (Belarus and Kazak) imploding as well.