LOI in Europe 2022

[joey B]

Mistake from Cleary and it looks like another bad away day for Rovers…

[2 Year Contract]

Mistake from Cleary and it looks like another bad away day for Rovers…

Very similar to Gannon's brain fart away to Ferencvaros

[kksaints]

Dreadful 2nd goal to concede but Rovers tempo is way too ponderous.

[legendz]

Rovers inability to stay in an away game and shooting themselves in the foot strikes again. The VM commentators were even discussing it just before conceding the second goal. Disastrous. Same mistake over and over. Will they ever learn?

[ger121]

For all the praise they get and much of it is deserved, their performances in the first 20-30 minutes of 3 away games have been disastrous. Many of the goals they concede are of their own doing.

[paul_oshea]

That was so poor there when they're getting forward the ball has to go in front of Byrne not to the side of him

[paul_oshea]

For all the praise they get and much of it is deserved, their performances in the first 20-30 minutes of 3 away games have been disastrous. Many of the goals they concede are of their own doing.

It takes them far too long to settle,they get overwhelmed and panic stations. Making silly mistakes. Need to settle in much quicker and adapt to the pace much faster

[D24Saint]

Good side Ghent. I’d say they will win this group.

[CSAD]

What Rovers haven’t learnt from their previous hammerings…shock horror.

[ger121]

Just the 5 goals so far in the Slavia vs Ballkani game. They seem a good side from what I have seen. Rovers lucky to not need to play them in the PO round.

Molde 1 up. Will be Gent and them vying for top spot.

Djurgarden 2-1 up now and Molde down to 10. What do I know!

[joey B]

Rovers playing better in the second half,some half chances coming their way ….

[joey B]

And they go 3 down:rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

That's shocking from Gaffney. The old LoI weakness up front shows again

[ger121]

That's shocking from Gaffney. The old LoI weakness up front shows again

Took a touch and then smashed at it like a Sunday League player. Gent would have punished the mistake.

[pineapple stu]

Someone needs to tell the VM commentator that the LoI is breaking for the international window

[ger121]

Djurgarden win a back and forth game 3-2. Fofana a scorer for Molde in the game was sent off. Some small crumb of comfort for Rovers.

[legendz]

Ludogorets, Ferencváros and Gent away has been a case of the same old story. If Rovers have ambitions of progressing further in years to come, they are going to have to find away of staying alive in these games when they fall a goal behind. Groundhog Day. Molde away next looks set to be a repeat.

[CSAD]

Good side Ghent. I’d say they will win this group.

Any side in Europe would look a good side against Rovers judging by the way Rovers set up in such games…

[ontheotherhand]

Very, very poor from us. Gent weren't anywhere near the level of Ludogorets or Ferencvaros but we played right into their hands by continually playing out from the back. I understand trying to suck the other team in but there's no point in that if the ball through the lines goes straight to them and that's what kept happening. We got nothing out of Jack or Watts so that was the wrong call by Bradley. I don't understand it to be honest as most Rovers fans would tell you those two don't work together. It hasn't worked in the league so it absolutely won't work away from home in Europe. McCann going off hurt us as well as he was the only one picking it up in midfield and holding on long enough to allow play to shift up.

Would still fancy us to get a win and maybe another draw at home which is about what I would have hoped from the groups. Burke made a difference when he came on so the quicker he gets up to speed the better. He's a far more dangerous player than Jack this season but neither have played enough to be at their best unfortunately. And they are the ones you need to compete at this level. Watts is just a good LoI player and nothing more.

[pineapple stu]

Burke and Byrne seem to be a long time getting back to full fitness it seems. What's the craic there?

[paul_oshea]

Any side in Europe would look a good side against Rovers judging by the way Rovers set up in such games…

Ya the gent manager killing them with kindness was a good move, and he did exactly what he didn't say he would. Hed clearly seen that rovers don't settle in fast and pressed them. The actual amount of chances band general play bar the first 20 mins was very even but at stage it didn't matter. The commentator on VM and I think Kerr said it too but they need to setup differently with an extra midfielder sitting in behind the two and/or playing 5 at the back.

Again for me I think the analysts were overstating how good gent were, there wasn't a huge gap between them. Chances showed that overall. And rovers have themselves to blame for 1 or 2 goals

[paul_oshea]

Burke and Byrne seem to be a long time getting back to full fitness it seems. What's the craic there?

And generally a lot of injuries?

[ontheotherhand]

Burke and Byrne seem to be a long time getting back to full fitness it seems. What's the craic there?

My fear is that Jack's injuries are connected to the back injury a few years ago because before that he was rock solid. Burke has always been a bit liable to be crocked. The risk of signing that type of player i.e the ones who have the ability to play at the higher levels but don't for a reason.

[ger121]

Cleary has been very dodgy since he came to Rovers in both the league and Europe. Was he like this with Dundalk?

[nigel-harps1954]

They probably could have, and maybe should have, got something from that game tonight. Continue to shoot themselves in the foot with bad decision making at the back, and poor finishing at the other end. Gaffney probably could have had two, if not three.

Pico Lopes is a huge loss for them at the back to keep it all together. Insisting on playing out every time is costing them though.

[ontheotherhand]

Cleary has been very dodgy since he came to Rovers in both the league and Europe. Was he like this with Dundalk?

a few dundalkers did warn us to be fair! although he's been very good for the most part. seems to have an error or two in him though. he's at the right club!

[CSAD]

Ya the gent manager killing them with kindness was a good move, and he did exactly what he didn't say he would. Hed clearly seen that rovers don't settle in fast and pressed them. The actual amount of chances band general play bar the first 20 mins was very even but at stage it didn't matter. The commentator on VM and I think Kerr said it too but they need to setup differently with an extra midfielder sitting in behind the two and/or playing 5 at the back.

Again for me I think the analysts were overstating how good gent were, there wasn't a huge gap between them. Chances showed that overall. And rovers have themselves to blame for 1 or 2 goals

They need to stop playing in Europe like they are playing an average LOI side, the complete lack of adaptation for Europe is the most worrying part from a Rovers perspective. Yes keep a lot of what you do in league in Europe by all means but some of the stuff they attempt in Europe is bordering being nativity and idiocy.

Also I’d like Bradley to stop talking about cutting out errors and spend more time on the coaching front to set up Rovers to not concede these stupid goals, what has actually changed on the defensive front from the Ludogorets game and now? Less excuses and more action would be nice.

[pineapple stu]

They probably could have, and maybe should have, got something from that game tonight.
That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

Didn't have a single shot in the first half. Analysts were saying the second half improvement was as much down to Gent taking the foot off the pedal as Rovers bucking down - and it was still Gent who scored again.

Making mistakes and missing chances is what weaker teams will do. If my auntie had balls, etc

[Kingswood Rover]

Gaffney is being very well Marshalled in a lot of games recently including league games and you would be thinking that Managers have done their homework on him. When i saw Watts named in that position my eyebrows went for a short stroll. Totally agree that we are very vulnerable to the high energetic press in the first periods of games and hopefully that will be addressed by some kick outs down the sides of the opposition which may make them sit back a bit more which would then allow us to pass it out from the back when its on. Cleary i thought has been very decent so far but what defender does not have a mistake in them Pico had more than a few early in his Rovers career.

[sbgawa]

Very dissapointing as these guys are nowhere near Ludogrets or Ferencvaros poor first goal and calamatous second.
Away to Molde next and we will need to be much better,
Pico bck in training apparantly if he got some game time against Derry or Shels or UCD in our next 3 matches it would be a massive boost

[Yossarian]

I think it’s fairly clear that even the best LoI players have stupid mistakes in them. It’s why they are here and not at a higher level. If Cleary had better football intelligence when it came to decision making then he wouldn’t be playing here, and that goes for most players in the league. It’s simply just our teams being out played by higher quality, and more often than not the higher quality team will win.

[placid casual]

A perfect summation Yossarian- you sure your a dundalk fan??
Outclassed by a better side, the same as against Ferencvaros and Ludogrets.
Basic defending is not punished in week to week LOI football but at this level your dead in the water , and Bradley seems insistent on playing this way away from home so results are not unexpected - his tactical acumen is rightly being questioned tho.
Hopefully the squad can re-gather themselves for a tough 90(poss 120) mins against Derry on a shameful pitch. Happily it doesn't seem derry players are that comfortable on it either - has a bang of penos off that tie.

[CSAD]

A perfect summation Yossarian- you sure your a dundalk fan??
Outclassed by a better side, the same as against Ferencvaros and Ludogrets.
Basic defending is not punished in week to week LOI football but at this level your dead in the water , and Bradley seems insistent on playing this way away from home so results are not unexpected - his tactical acumen is rightly being questioned tho.
Hopefully the squad can re-gather themselves for a tough 90(poss 120) mins against Derry on a shameful pitch. Happily it doesn't seem derry players are that comfortable on it either - has a bang of penos off that tie.

Except if that was the case why weren’t Dundalk having the exact same problems in Europe defensively. Shamrock Rovers defense is so laughably bad it’s bordering of nativity at this point.

I still don’t get how the coaches are not being held to more scrutiny, this is the third time this season Rovers have been shown up for their naivety and yet there still appears to be little done to actually resolve the issue, Bradley would be better spending less time talking about needing to improve and spend more time actually improving…

[2 Year Contract]

Shamrock Rovers defense is so laughably bad it’s bordering of nativity at this point.

While I don’t think it'd be accurate to call their defenders 'wise men' you could definitely be onto something there as they certainly do come baring gifts of goals ;)

[Straightstory]

To be fair (or unfair) to Cleary, that glaring error (did he stumble, or just lose control of the ball?) would have been punished even in the LOI.
Bradley deserves kudos for what he's done for Rovers, but their away games in Europe have been generally regarded as tactical disasters. I don't think it's just that they're playing against better players (although they obviously are). Gartland and Kerr have continually pointed out the error of his ways. It would be interesting to see if they'd fare better in European games under another manager. It'd be a big decision for Rovers - especially as Bradley has showed his loyalty to them by declining the Lincoln job. However, if they see regular qualification for European group stages - which I don't think is an unreasonable ambition under the current easier qualification route - they may be tempted.

[sbgawa]

Shamrock Rovers defense is so laughably bad it’s bordering of nativity at this point.



I think this might be just a little OTT ;), i'm sure the coaches and players are trying to change things but as the old boxing saying goes "all plans go out the window after the first punch in the face"
They cant be that bad or they wouldnt be top of the league.
Move on to Molde but priority for me is League wins in the next few matches

[Dermobohs]

A perfect summation Yossarian- you sure your a dundalk fan??
Outclassed by a better side, the same as against Ferencvaros and Ludogrets.
Basic defending is not punished in week to week LOI football but at this level your dead in the water , and Bradley seems insistent on playing this way away from home so results are not unexpected - his tactical acumen is rightly being questioned tho.
Hopefully the squad can re-gather themselves for a tough 90(poss 120) mins against Derry on a shameful pitch. Happily it doesn't seem derry players are that comfortable on it either - has a bang of penos off that tie.
It took Bradley and the coaching team quite a while to hit upon a system that domestically works, and very well too. They seem limited in their flexibility now but really none of the Irish coaches atm are any better. Been going on a while too, Fenlon dominated the league here while at bohs and was found wanting in Europe. The players are limited yes but you feel a better coach could eke out a lot more, particularly that rovers squad, and maybe even sign a striker who could score at least one of the chances created.

[Yossarian]

Except if that was the case why weren’t Dundalk having the exact same problems in Europe defensively. Shamrock Rovers defense is so laughably bad it’s bordering of nativity at this point.


Well in fairness, Dundalk made plenty of defensive blunders in our Euro games, it’s probably just that we scored goals in most games or at least kept the defensive errors to a minimum, and most of the games were close. Gary Rogers made a howler in Alkmaar, Sava the same against Zenit. Sean Hoare was caught badly against Larnaca. They’re just the ones that come to mind immediately.

[pineapple stu]

I see you've successfully banished Aaron McCarey from your mind :)

[sbgawa]

Well in fairness, Dundalk made plenty of defensive blunders in our Euro games, it’s probably just that we scored goals in most games or at least kept the defensive errors to a minimum, and most of the games were close. Gary Rogers made a howler in Alkmaar, Sava the same against Zenit. Sean Hoare was caught badly against Larnaca. They’re just the ones that come to mind immediately.

Gartland was caught out badly a couple of times as well.
I think its down to technical ability in the LOI , the players of whatever team just have less time to control and pass the ball in Europe than in LOI and hence under more pressure they make more mistakes. A LOI team could ask the players to play different systems in Europe than domestically but youd have to wonder would that be better asking players to change systems and it wont solve the technical ability issue.
As KR said above a few long clearences early in the game maybe rather than playing out all the time but generally all that does is give the ball back, worth trying maybe even if only to keep things tight at the start

[ger121]

Except if that was the case why weren’t Dundalk having the exact same problems in Europe defensively. Shamrock Rovers defense is so laughably bad it’s bordering of nativity at this point.

I still don’t get how the coaches are not being held to more scrutiny, this is the third time this season Rovers have been shown up for their naivety and yet there still appears to be little done to actually resolve the issue, Bradley would be better spending less time talking about needing to improve and spend more time actually improving…

But Dundalk did make defensive mistakes. Seem to remember Gartland and Gannon being at fault for a couple goals after defensive howlers. The difference is they made a few less mistakes and were a better team overall than this Rovers team.

[Philosophizer]

But Dundalk did make defensive mistakes. Seem to remember Gartland and Gannon being at fault for a couple goals after defensive howlers. The difference is they made a few less mistakes and were a better team overall than this Rovers team.
Exactly this. Dundalk made plenty of howlers as mentioned above, and missed plenty of sitters too - Oduwa against Vienna immediately comes to mind. They just made fewer than this Rovers team, and were able to usually keep away games alive for longer.
Not many people remember the away BATE match in 2016, which they should have lost by about 4/5, but they got huge luck and managed to somehow come away with just a 1-0 loss. The rest is history.

[CSAD]

I think this might be just a little OTT ;), i'm sure the coaches and players are trying to change things but as the old boxing saying goes "all plans go out the window after the first punch in the face"
They cant be that bad or they wouldnt be top of the league.
Move on to Molde but priority for me is League wins in the next few matches

I might have agreed with that if it was just the Ludogorets game and they learnt from it but there have been 2 big games since then where they have made the exact same errors and appear to learn nothing game on game.

I’m sick of this talk of blaming the quality of opposition and thinking that’s an excuse to not fix the problems, there are glaring problems in the Rovers defense and it’s time they actually fix the problems rather than just say they should in press conferences.

Like I’ve said repeatedly it’s fine in the league because Rovers have a better squad than anyone else by far, they control most games so don’t get exposed. It’s games in Europe when they have to step up to the plate that they get exposed and it shows up the issues they have in the coaching staff.

Also the fact that with the squad Rovers have they are only 1 point on top of the LOI (I know they have games in hand, but still the fact that with 8 games left the league isn’t done and dusted already) speaks volumes. And I find most bizarre is the lack of ambition from the fans or coaching staff, it’s like they could turn Rovers into another Dundalk and make history in Europe but are happy to settle for the bare minimum in Europe and not bother fixing glaring issues they have because they are winning the LOI which considering their squad shouldn’t be the holy grail, they should see that as an expectation but wins in Europe as the holy grail.

[CSAD]

Gartland was caught out badly a couple of times as well.
I think its down to technical ability in the LOI , the players of whatever team just have less time to control and pass the ball in Europe than in LOI and hence under more pressure they make more mistakes. A LOI team could ask the players to play different systems in Europe than domestically but youd have to wonder would that be better asking players to change systems and it wont solve the technical ability issue.
As KR said above a few long clearences early in the game maybe rather than playing out all the time but generally all that does is give the ball back, worth trying maybe even if only to keep things tight at the start

So here’s a solution, if you have a weakness don’t continue to build you’re game plan around that weakness, that’s just stupid.

[Philosophizer]

Uh oh... he's getting going again...

[Yossarian]

I see you've successfully banished Aaron McCarey from your mind :)

Some things are better left in the past!

[passinginterest]

It's a tough one for Rovers and Bradley. Mangers these days seem to wed themselves to a particular philosophy and change is rare and slow. It's very obvious that Mannus is not very comfortable with playing out and that the centre backs are nervous in the early stages of the game. Given the strength of Gaffney up front it seems bizarre at this stage that Rovers don't push up and go long in the early phase of the game. I'm sure the counter thinking is that they want to slow the game down early on, get some touches and take the sting out of the home crowd, but there's more than enough evidence at this stage that all they're doing is encouraging the high tempo press from their opponents and giving the ball to them cheaply and conceding as a result.

There's no harm bringing back the short game as things settle down and we've also seen Rovers grow into all of the games and look much better as they go on. There's promise there but it is concerning to see the same mistakes repeated, one offs can happen and are expected with the step up, but repeating the same errors is hard to forgive. Stephen Kenny had similar issues with Ireland in the early games and we've seen them be much more pragmatic in mixing it up more recently so hopefully Bradley can have a similar epiphany. There's definitely more points in the group for Rovers, yes the opponents are all probably a little bit better than them, but we've seen enough to say the gaps are not huge.

[ontheotherhand]

Look most on here know I'm a big supporter of Bradley. What he and his team have done for Rovers to improve us on and off the field is incredible and puts him up in my favourite managers of all time list. He's fallen down away from home in Europe and that's a blot in the copybook but to continue the analogy, he's only in about 5th class. He's 38 and has been at one club his whole managerial career, gradually building a particular type of team to play a certain way. He's achieved what we wanted him to to this point. The next step would be winning games against better opposition in Europe, home and away.

His current approach has been to stick to play out from the back regardless of the occasion and I'm ok with that for the most part. There were extenuating circumstances around the Flora and Ludogorets games in particular and I think he knew that and wanted to try playing our game with a (close to) fully fit squad against Gent as we hadn't had that luxury in other fixtures. It didn't work although I would say we weren't outplayed by Gent in the same way we were against Flora, Ludo or Ferencvaros. They cut us apart whereas Gent just pounced on bad errors. To be fair to the critics they were errors that were brought about by the approach we took which I think was wrong in this case with that lineup. That said, Gent were actually on the ropes at times but they took their chances and we didn't. The game probably should have finished 2-1 or 3-2. I'd fancy us against them at home.

So what does he do now? He's shown a willingness to change the approach when it is clearly not working but it usually takes him a while to give up on it as it is generally successful for us. You can look at how we switched things up against Bohs to end our bad run there. Or how we played against Dundalk recently. I'd like to see him attempt that away in Europe but I'd
equally love us to get our best 11 on the field and try to play our way. I think he'll aim for that before a switch to be honest.

[Nesta99]

Ive always felt its the assistant's job to basically argue with the manager on the way theyve set up, point out the tunnel vision tendencies of a manager and offer their alternate rationale. For that reason coaching teams that work are gold dust and why you often see a manager or assistant struggle when they move on to different circles. There isnt much more for Bradley domestically and in some ways Europe is the better opportunity for him to test his setup, at this stage he should be looking at tweaking how he sets up for European games even if its just for his own development. To stick when it doesnt work is a wasted opportunity for himself never mind his club. He is a bit too conservative first for a young manager that is at a club dominating domestically so safe in that regard, has delivered group stage football and is odds on to go again next season. The team or squad needs to evolve more to be more interchangeable for domestic and then European games and have more than a plan A for Europe.

[nigel-harps1954]

Ive always felt its the assistant's job to basically argue with the manager on the way theyve set up, point out the tunnel vision tendencies of a manager and offer their alternate rationale.

That's why Harps have been crap this year. We don't have Paul Hegarty falling out with Ollie Horgan every match and training session over the style of football.