LOI in Europe 2022

[Philosophizer]

Fair play to you Saint supporters on here for being so calm and level headed about last night. I was apoplectic after that match - and I was there just as a neutral LOI supporter. The ref was dire and shafted Pats all night. Anyone know where he was from?
I wonder is it a common thing that European refs have an idea in their head that a LOI team will just be a bunch of long ball mullockers with little technical ability who go in too hard for challenges?

[kksaints]

Fair play to you Saint supporters on here for being so calm and level headed about last night. I was apoplectic after that match - and I was there just as a neutral LOI supporter. The ref was dire and shafted Pats all night. Anyone know where he was from?
I wonder is it a common thing that European refs have an idea in their head that a LOI team will just be a bunch of long ball mullockers with little technical ability who go in too hard for challenges?

He was Romanian I think. The free leading up to the penalty decision was so awful that I don't see in any way possible how it was given. Penalty in real time wasnt that clear but the replay looks very like the CSKA player hadled the ball first. Ref basically fell for every trick in the book from CSKA and how there was only 4 minutes of injury time was ridiculous with the amount of time wasting, the penalty decision and the substitutes.

Very frustrating not to go through aside from the Ref, Breslin and O'Reilly really should have finished at least on of their chances each. Real lack of clinical finishing from our players all season.

[passinginterest]

I thought the ref was grand for about an hour to be honest. Lost control a bit after that, O'Reilly was a bit unlucky with his yellow, Grivosti was asking for it, he had an earlier tackle very similar to the one he got booked for, it's a style of tackle I hate to see, diving in and off the ground, even if it's not two footed and contacts ball first it's dangerous and it stands out a mile in the modern game. The free in the lead up to the peno was bizarre, not sure if ref or lino called it but it made no sense. The pen itself looked fair, I didn't spot the CSKA handball at the time and neither did the commentary team. Pat's had more than enough chances to have won on the night, apart from the actual goal and the pen CSKA maybe had two other chances, Pat's had at least 2 absolute sitters, two more excellent chances and a few more half chances. O'Reilly was very impressive for the most part, but he's clearly not a natural finisher and I'm not sure how Breslin managed to actually nearly kill all the pace on the ball when any kind of solid connection was a certain goal. It's been all too common with league of Ireland teams over the years to put in decent performances but miss key chances and give up cheap goals, it was the stereotypical performance unfortunately. Hopefully a huge learning experience for them though and they'll be better for it if they make it back to Europe next season.

[Nesta99]

Is it the ref or the 4th official that adds time these days? There was a proposal for the clock to be stopped similar to rugby rather than add time. Not sure id like that idea but there definitely needs to be something done. It was Skhupi's time wasting that allowed Rovers the opportunity to get a late 3rd and domestically last week Derry were undone by the added time for time wasting. Maybe just stricter application of the existing rules is enough!?

[2 Year Contract]

I wonder is it a common thing that European refs have an idea in their head that a LOI team will just be a bunch of long ball mullockers with little technical ability who go in too hard for challenges?

Potentially could be something in that. We all know LOI refs are bad at the best of times but comparing the cards this season, Pats have had 38 yellows and 0 reds in 24 games, compared to 12 yellows and 2 reds in 4 games in Europe. The average of 1.5 cards a game in the league going up to 3.5 in europe shows a clear difference in refereeing style/standards when you consider some of the shocking decisions and bookings handed out in the European games this season. Mark Doyle's red card being one of the worst ones. To me it seems Mura and CSKA being experienced European sides, applied all the cynical tactics they could to get opposition players booked and the referees just bought it in each of the 4 games

[Shinkicker]

Potentially could be something in that. We all know LOI refs are bad at the best of times but comparing the cards this season, Pats have had 38 yellows and 0 reds in 24 games, compared to 12 yellows and 2 reds in 4 games in Europe. The average of 1.5 cards a game in the league going up to 3.5 in europe shows a clear difference in refereeing style/standards when you consider some of the shocking decisions and bookings handed out in the European games this season. Mark Doyle's red card being one of the worst ones. To me it seems Mura and CSKA being experienced European sides, applied all the cynical tactics they could to get opposition players booked and the referees just bought it in each of the 4 gameswhile the standard of referring in LOI is poor the standard in the Eastern block is worse. Coupled with that players are always play acting, diving and any other skulduggery to win frees, penos and generally waste time. It's ironic that a fellow commarade from a neighbouring country was in charge and fell for the antics.

[legendz]

while the standard of referring in LOI is poor the standard in the Eastern block is worse. Coupled with that players are always play acting, diving and any other skulduggery to win frees, penos and generally waste time. It's ironic that a fellow commarade from a neighbouring country was in charge and fell for the antics.Are some League of Ireland clubs too green when it comes to the dark arts etc.?

[lofty9]

Are some League of Ireland clubs too green when it comes to the dark arts etc.?


Some. Stephen Kenny's Dundalk were masters of the dark arts.

[Nesta99]

Some. Stephen Kenny's Dundalk were masters of the dark arts.

We learned the hard way!

[Nesta99]

Potentially could be something in that. We all know LOI refs are bad at the best of times but comparing the cards this season, Pats have had 38 yellows and 0 reds in 24 games, compared to 12 yellows and 2 reds in 4 games in Europe. The average of 1.5 cards a game in the league going up to 3.5 in europe shows a clear difference in refereeing style/standards when you consider some of the shocking decisions and bookings handed out in the European games this season. Mark Doyle's red card being one of the worst ones. To me it seems Mura and CSKA being experienced European sides, applied all the cynical tactics they could to get opposition players booked and the referees just bought it in each of the 4 games

I cant remember who against but Dundalk were described as a typically British physical side, or maybe it was not a typically British side!?

[Philosophizer]

I cant remember who against but Dundalk were described as a typically British physical side, or maybe it was not a typically British side!?
I think it was on the 2016 run one of the opposing coaches said they were NOT a typical British side, which was lauded as a great compliment at the time. May have been the Alkmar manager. I can't remember exactly.

[Nesta99]

Yeah I think you could be right that it was the Alkmaar coach, meant as a compliment but caused some gurning at the British reference. It would imply that that is the attitude and refs could well be expecting a physical approach.

[EatYerGreens]

Cracking atmosphere at Tallaght last night. The result aside, you'd expect that pretty much everyone there had a good evening out and it was a decent ad for LOI football. They announced near the end about Pats' game against Sligo on Sunday at Richmond Park, and you can't help but feel that any interested/curious newbies who enjoyed last night will find Richmond a very different experience. Especially as they'll presumably got from a crowd of almost 7,000 to one of about 2,000 (?). It goes to show the difference a good stadium makes when it comes to a big game and the matchday experience.

The ref was woeful last night. I don't know if they have assessors at all European fixtures, but he really was terrible. That said, as we all know Pats had enough chances to win it. CSKA were poor. A collection of individuals who looked like they'd never played together before, and who kept making silly unforced errors with sloppy passes etc. Not a single stand-out player in their squad either. I'll be stunned if they make the group stages.

[sbgawa]

double post

[sbgawa]

Originally Posted by lofty9 https://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=2120451#post2120451)
Some. Stephen Kenny's Dundalk were masters of the dark arts.



[COLOR=#333333]


If the FAI introduce VAR into the LOI and are looking for some retired Refs to do it they should check on Stephen O Donnells availability.

[placid casual]

Watched the highlights of the Zagreb ludogrets 2nd leg there, where Ludo had 3 men sent off.
The refs "performance" in that game was buttimer bad, and I don't say that lightly. It was so bad you'd have to question the ethics of some of the decisions made against Ludo. As much as I enjoyed the look on the face of Dutch spanner in goal for Ludo, some of the decisions were bordering on corrupt.

Have a feeling we'll see one of Ludo or CSKA in Tallaght again this year.

[outspoken]

Watched the highlights of the Zagreb ludogrets 2nd leg there, where Ludo had 3 men sent off.
The refs "performance" in that game was buttimer bad, and I don't say that lightly. It was so bad you'd have to question the ethics of some of the decisions made against Ludo. As much as I enjoyed the look on the face of Dutch spanner in goal for Ludo, some of the decisions were bordering on corrupt.

Have a feeling we'll see one of Ludo or CSKA in Tallaght again this year.

Watching the Pats game last night you couldn't but help feel WTF is going on here with the match officials

[culloty82]

With the LoI now up to 36th in the co-efficient, where does it need to be to guarantee seedings in first-round draws - 32nd?

[Nesta99]

Originally Posted by lofty9 https://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=2120451#post2120451)
Some. Stephen Kenny's Dundalk were masters of the dark arts.



[COLOR=#333333]


If the FAI introduce VAR into the LOI and are looking for some retired Refs to do it they should check on Stephen O Donnells availability.

What are ye on about, Stephen O'Donnell doesnt need assistance or video to referee a game!!

[2 Year Contract]

What are ye on about, Stephen O'Donnell doesnt need assistance or video to referee a game!!
Greg Bolger is another that will no doubt hang up the boots soon and go full time with the refereeing rather than just doing it while he plays ;)

[Nesta99]

With the LoI now up to 36th in the co-efficient, where does it need to be to guarantee seedings in first-round draws - 32nd?

Co-efficients are too technical for me, but I dont think a league/national ranking earns seeding, just additional European places, which comp non champions enter and where you enter the comp. Individual club coefficients determine whether seeded or not in each round (or take the seeding of beaten seeded side if unseeded?). If a club doesnt have a coefficient (or is less than the country coeff) the national coefficient is used(?). Either way it could be a while before a Kerry LoI side are seeded in Europe;).


Im kind of answering for clarificantion myself....

[pineapple stu]

It varies by club because it's the club coefficient that matters - see here (https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/trank2023.html) for the current list.

It's based on the rounds a club got through (as opposed to the individual results they got) in the last five years in Europe, and it can't go lower than one-fifth of the national coefficient (if, for example, a club hasn't been in Europe in that time)

So while Sligo and Pat's results may see them seeded next year, the problem is that at the moment they mayn't qualify. Derry, meanwhile, will have quite a low seeding because they've made a hames of Europe in the past five years (it's 8 years since they won a tie)

Shamrock Rovers though will have a great seeding but won't skip a round any time soon as the round a club enters at is based on national coefficient, not club coefficient. Assuming they stay in the CL for the next few years, then we'd need to get up to 21st for them to get a bye in the CL (based on this year, which is a bit affected by Russian clubs being banned)

[A N Mouse]

Co-efficients are too technical for me, but I dont think a league/national ranking earns seeding, just additional European places, which comp non champions enter and where you enter the comp. Individual club coefficients determine whether seeded or not in each round (or take the seeding of beaten seeded side if unseeded?). If a club doesnt have a coefficient (or is less than the country coeff) the national coefficient is used(?). Either way it could be a while before a Kerry LoI side are seeded in Europe;).


Im kind of answering for clarificantion myself....

The default co-efficient for partipicants is the average of the national co-efficient. National co-efficient is based on performances over five years, so divide by 5.

This is used if don't have club-coefficient, or have one less than this average.

In order for this to lead to seeding in first round (depends on how many clubs start in first round) it would have to be in or around 3, so noational co-efficient of ~15.

Would need to see how things shake out after 5 years of ECL, but atm 15 national co-efficient point would likely be enough for all clubs to start in ECL Q2, at which point 3pts is unlikely to be enough for seeding.

So it's possible in the future to be seed based on national co-efficient, but not just yet

[A N Mouse]

It varies by club because it's the club coefficient that matters - see here (https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/trank2023.html) for the current list.

It's based on the rounds a club got through (as opposed to the individual results they got) in the last five years in Europe, and it can't go lower than one-fifth of the national coefficient (if, for example, a club hasn't been in Europe in that time)

So while Sligo and Pat's results may see them seeded next year, the problem is that at the moment they mayn't qualify. Derry, meanwhile, will have quite a low seeding because they've made a hames of Europe in the past five years (it's 8 years since they won a tie)

Shamrock Rovers though will have a great seeding but won't skip a round any time soon as the round a club enters at is based on national coefficient, not club coefficient. Assuming they stay in the CL for the next few years, then we'd need to get up to 21st for them to get a bye in the CL (based on this year, which is a bit affected by Russian clubs being banned)

As you rightly point out the club points in qualifers are based on round eliminated. So Derry, having gone out at the first round in three of the last five years, will have exactly the same club-co-efficient points as Sligo or Pats. Who have only competed twice, but got through a round or two this year.
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/trank2023.html

[pineapple stu]

Oh that's weird; I hadn't spotted that

[WeAreRovers]

Shamrock Rovers UEFA Europa League Play-off games home and away against Ferencváros to be shown live on RTÉ2

Having already secured a spot in the UEFA Europa Conference League group stage, Shamrock Rovers will face off against Hungarian champions Ferencváros in the UEFA Europa League play-off round with both games set to be shown live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.


Rovers travel to Budapest next week (Thursday 18 August) for the away leg with kick-off at 5.30pm Irish time. The home leg in Tallaght Stadium takes place on Thursday 25 August with an 8.00pm kick-off.

Broadcast details to follow.

[ger121]

Can you be drawn again in the group stages with a team you faced in the qualifiers?

[yurt]

This guy has the predicted seeding based on ELO ranking simulations. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zpt5J7mz3t-53slOYtKzijZrZYCF39aHWd7MvZu-t1U/edit?pli=1#gid=1083777926

He has Rovers going into pot 3 in the ECL. Truth be told there is very little difference between pot 3 and 4. Some weak and some strong teams in both.

A group with West Ham, Slovan and Riga would be such a class result. Would be class to have West Ham in the Aviva, given it's not one of the well supported Irish teams you'd have to hope it'd be majority Rovers fans in a packed stadium.

[joey B]

https://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=9225

2 Pats player suffered racial abuse last night.....

[TonyD]

https://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=9225

2 Pats player suffered racial abuse last night.....

Odd, given that CSKA had a few black players themselves. The guy who kicked off the trouble at the end (well, technically Jamie Lennon pushed him first, so could be said to have started it) was making gestures towards the Pats fans, one of which looked like a monkey gesture. We’re almost definitely going to get a fine for the brains dead idiots throwing stuff on the pitch, but hopefully they will get one as well if that stuff was going on.

[Jack B]

Odd, given that CSKA had a few black players themselves. The guy who kicked off the trouble at the end (well, technically Jamie Lennon pushed him first, so could be said to have started it) was making gestures towards the Pats fans, one of which looked like a monkey gesture. We’re almost definitely going to get a fine for the brains dead idiots throwing stuff on the pitch, but hopefully they will get one as well if that stuff was going on.

It was from the away end + online, no accusations against any of their players I don't think.

[MichaelCherrito]

Can you be drawn again in the group stages with a team you faced in the qualifiers?

Yep. Last season Slovan Bratislava beat Lincoln Red Imps 4-2 in the Europa League qualifiers, then went into tbe ECL group stages after losing to Olympiakos in the play-off.

The Gibraltar team, after losing to Slovan, beat Riga in the ECL play-off to get to that group stage. Both Lincoln & Slovan met in the group with Slovan winning both matches. They finished bottom two of a group containing Copenhaguen and Bohemian's conquerors Paok.

There's a slight chance Rovers might travel to NM again in the ECL group stages.

[2 Year Contract]

Odd, given that CSKA had a few black players themselves.

Their fans are the absolute dregs of humanity. This article is from June just gone about Alan Pardew leaving the club after their fans threw bananas at some of their own players who were black. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12625320/alan-pardew-leaves-cska-sofia-after-bananas-thrown-at-black-players

Not to mention the sightings of CSKA Sofia stickers around Tallaght and Dublin City that feature a swastika. Out and out scum they are.
https://twitter.com/marxistsaint/status/1558067273520275458?s=21&t=isiL4O9Aw8CbdDHcwpeW4w

[EatYerGreens]

Their fans are the absolute dregs of humanity. This article is from June just gone about Alan Pardew leaving the club after their fans threw bananas at some of their own players who were black. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12625320/alan-pardew-leaves-cska-sofia-after-bananas-thrown-at-black-players

Not to mention the sightings of CSKA Sofia stickers around Tallaght and Dublin City that feature a swastika. Out and out scum they are.
https://twitter.com/marxistsaint/status/1558067273520275458?s=21&t=isiL4O9Aw8CbdDHcwpeW4w

Ironic given that the Bulgarians are Slavs, and Hitler dispised Slavs and wanted to exterminate them all. But then, historical accuracy and critique has never been a strong point of knuckle draggers.

[Nesta99]

Ironic given that the Bulgarians are Slavs, and Hitler dispised Slavs and wanted to exterminate them all. But then, historical accuracy and critique has never been a strong point of knuckle draggers.

It's hard to get the head around scumbaggery that would do this in general, H-Block sticikers not miles off either!!!

[sbgawa]

H Block stickers :eek:
I wonder was he wearing a retro football jersey as well

[paul_oshea]

It varies by club because it's the club coefficient that matters - see here (https://kassiesa.net/uefa/data/method5/trank2023.html) for the current list.

It's based on the rounds a club got through (as opposed to the individual results they got) in the last five years in Europe, and it can't go lower than one-fifth of the national coefficient (if, for example, a club hasn't been in Europe in that time)

So while Sligo and Pat's results may see them seeded next year, the problem is that at the moment they mayn't qualify. Derry, meanwhile, will have quite a low seeding because they've made a hames of Europe in the past five years (it's 8 years since they won a tie)

Shamrock Rovers though will have a great seeding but won't skip a round any time soon as the round a club enters at is based on national coefficient, not club coefficient. Assuming they stay in the CL for the next few years, then we'd need to get up to 21st for them to get a bye in the CL (based on this year, which is a bit affected by Russian clubs being banned)

Interesting that rovers are above hajduk and just below Portugal. If they got a Portuguese side and went above they'd be seeded above that portugese team if it hadn't much club coeffs. They would be seeded but in all reality the weaker side. Kind of shows up the seeding too when hajduk are below. If rovers were to meet them you'd fancy hajduk to go through

[Kiki Balboa]

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/levski-sofia-want-Hamrun-tie-replayed-referees-technical-error.974225

Bulgarians not making many friends in Europe...

Making a run for one of the most embrassing years in European Football

[sbgawa]

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/levski-sofia-want-Hamrun-tie-replayed-referees-technical-error.974225

Bulgarians not making many friends in Europe...

Making a run for one of the most embarrassing years in European Football

Jeez that's embarrassing alright, you'd have to wonder who is running the club that would allow an appeal on that basis.
Not a hope of getting the match replayed and only making your club look stupid.
Could you imagine how many games would need to be replayed if every ref mistake led to a reply...

[pineapple stu]

There is such a thing as a technical error (separate from a mistake) but I don't know what exactly counts.

I think one was given because the ref applied the wrong (old) rule for encroachment into the D at a penalty.

I don't see how "this guy was offside at tip 5 minutes before he scored" counts though

[nigel-harps1954]

Pats probably have a stronger case than this one.

[Philosophizer]

Pats probably have a stronger case than this one.
Exactly, this is ludicrous stuff.
If other clubs social media teams have their heads screwed on they should be ripping the **** out of this and generating a bit of a buzz.

[EatYerGreens]

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/levski-sofia-want-Hamrun-tie-replayed-referees-technical-error.974225

Bulgarians not making many friends in Europe...

Making a run for one of the most embrassing years in European Football

That's such a ridiculous thing on which to try to build a case for a replay. Embarassed for them.

[TonyD]

Pats probably have a stronger case than this one.

Maybe we could be the fifth team in one of the groups. Could we ? Pretty please ? Huh, huh ? 😀

[EatYerGreens]

Maybe we could be the fifth team in one of the groups. Could we ? Pretty please ? Huh, huh ? 

If only Delaney was still around, he'd fight your corner on this.

(And then pocket whatever money was provided by UEFA to shut him up)

[Nesta99]

Just imagine the can of worms that would be opened if anything like this ever got a hearing!! Football would be bankrupt in days fending off every disgruntled club and fan from a single night's games never mind backdating stuff. I cringed more than I was annoyed at the whole Henry stuff between Delaney, Bertie saying he'd get involved and especially certain press publications that tried to turn the Irish in to Francophobes, thankfully we are not as gullible as some other nationalities. Maybe there is more on the line with finances these days but it seems to me that so called bigger clubs lose the plot if clubs from smaller leagues dare to try and compete, win or lose they throw shapes at opponents.

[Stuttgart88]

Shamrock Rovers UEFA Europa League Play-off games home and away against Ferencváros to be shown live on RTÉ2

Having already secured a spot in the UEFA Europa Conference League group stage, Shamrock Rovers will face off against Hungarian champions Ferencváros in the UEFA Europa League play-off round with both games set to be shown live on RTÉ2 and RTÉ Player.


Rovers travel to Budapest next week (Thursday 18 August) for the away leg with kick-off at 5.30pm Irish time. The home leg in Tallaght Stadium takes place on Thursday 25 August with an 8.00pm kick-off.

Broadcast details to follow.Any idea if this includes UK? I tweeted back to RTE and Rovers but got no answer. I have RTE Player so will be able to watch, but I'd prefer LOITV just to be sure.

[WeAreRovers]

Any idea if this includes UK? I tweeted back to RTE and Rovers but got no answer. I have RTE Player so will be able to watch, but I'd prefer LOITV just to be sure.

Island of Ireland only as far as I'm aware but waiting for confirmation.

[pateen]

Any idea if this includes UK? I tweeted back to RTE and Rovers but got no answer. I have RTE Player so will be able to watch, but I'd prefer LOITV just to be sure.

VPN or local Irish pub as VPN doesn't always work.
Where are you based Stuttgart?

[Stuttgart88]

London, NW6. The Corrib Rest used to be yards from my home but it's closed a few years now.