LOI in Europe 2022

[pineapple stu]

Though I suppose it links into another point in comparing strength - the champions of the 00s were generally pushed a lot more than the champions lately. There's typically a 10 point gap back to second and often 20 back to third these days. We haven't really had a title race worthy of the name in a few years, and we don't have the variety of clubs capable of winning the league as we did ten or so years ago.

I might do up some quick stats on that later to chart that and see if it isn't just me mis-remembering! But that'd point to a lack of depth in quality behind the champions
Went and did up that chart anyway - may as well while we wait for the draws tomorrow.

https://i0.wp.com/stbenilduschessclub.files.wordpress.com/2022/08/chart.png?ssl=1

So yeah, the gap between first and second in each of the last seven seasons has surpassed every season from 2000-2014 except for two (2007, which only equalled the lowest gap in the last seven years, and 2008, which was an anomalously large romp to the title from Bohs). Similarly, the gap between first and third in each of the last five seasons has been bigger than every season from 2000-2016.

2020 was only half a season of course, yet the gaps are consistent with the other seasons around then.

This year is shaping up to be a bit tighter (around 10 points to each, based on a points-per-game calculation off current standings), though I think Rovers finished strongly the last couple of seasons, helped by more strength in depth, and that may end up being the case again this year.

Anyways, it does suggest that even if Dundalk/Rovers are a match for previous champions, the chasing pack isn't what it used to be.

[sbgawa]

This is the exact issue for me when it comes to discussing the relative strength of the league compared to 10 years ago. If rovers go on to win the league this year (which I think is more likely to happen if we don't make group stages) that will be 8 of the last 9 years one or other has won the league while winning by record margins over second and 3rd. The league may not be stronger but the top teams are better imo.
The climate might be about to change again though as I can't see Derry not improving with the budget they now have and dundalk should be better next year as well.

[ontheotherhand]

Went and did up that chart anyway - may as well while we wait for the draws tomorrow.

https://i0.wp.com/stbenilduschessclub.files.wordpress.com/2022/08/chart.png?ssl=1

So yeah, the gap between first and second in each of the last seven seasons has surpassed every season from 2000-2014 except for two (2007, which only equalled the lowest gap in the last seven years, and 2008, which was an anomalously large romp to the title from Bohs). Similarly, the gap between first and third in each of the last five seasons has been bigger than every season from 2000-2016.

2020 was only half a season of course, yet the gaps are consistent with the other seasons around then.

This year is shaping up to be a bit tighter (around 10 points to each, based on a points-per-game calculation off current standings), though I think Rovers finished strongly the last couple of seasons, helped by more strength in depth, and that may end up being the case again this year.

Anyways, it does suggest that even if Dundalk/Rovers are a match for previous champions, the chasing pack isn't what it used to be.

Nice work. Of course Dundalk's best side were probably a lot more than a match for, let's say, the bohs team of the 2000s. One is talked about as being possibly the best side in LoI history and one isn't. So the league itself might still be stronger even if we know it's been dominated by Dundalk/Rovers/Cork lately.

I'd like to think the standard has actually improved but my memories of the 2000s aren't that great to be honest.

What is the main indicator of a regression for you stu? European results? Just a general view that the football on the field isn't the same as it used to be? Certainly the level of competitiveness has gone down...but has the standard?

[pineapple stu]

Euro results is the obvious one - it's undeniable they're not at the 00s level. That whole era wasn't sustainable of course - and yet the money wasn't so ludicrous as to not be achievable again in a sustainable way. It's effectively the FAI's target for the league after all (30th in the rankings), even if they clearly haven't thought through how it might happen.

The drop in the 10s is far less stated and there's definitely an argument the league has stood still rather than declined in that time. I think we've had some very fortunate Euro draws of late that are helping push up the coefficient a bit. The chart I had a while back on five-year Euro results against nations in the 50s/40s/etc showed results getting steadily worse. But then Mura/Motherwell happened of course, which are exactly the results we haven't been having lately.

But I think there's also a case of good clubs imploding and being replaced in the scheme of things by weaker clubs (borne out by that second chart). Cork went pop as Rovers came on the scene as a challenger - fine. But them Dundalk's millions ran out and no-one has taken up the mantle of legitimate title contender from them (though Derry might soon). Bohs, Sligo and even Pat's have gone backwards the last couple of years and I don't think clubs improving (Derry; Dundalk's improvement over the last two years) has balanced that out.

And the current UCD team wouldn't have a chance against the UCD side relegated in 2008 (Gregg, Finn, McFaul, McNally, Mahon, Duggan, Conan Byrne, etc)

[dahamsta]

@redobit, @EatYerGreens, cut out the snark please.

[Real ale Madrid]

The drop in the 10s is far less stated and there's definitely an argument the league has stood still rather than declined in that time. I think we've had some very fortunate Euro draws of late that are helping push up the coefficient a bit. The chart I had a while back on five-year Euro results against nations in the 50s/40s/etc showed results getting steadily worse. But then Mura/Motherwell happened of course, which are exactly the results we haven't been having lately.


Rovers last year and Cork City in 2019 both received byes through rounds in the ECL where they would have both expected to be competitive - that cost the league a few co-efficient points - Sligo got a tough draw last year in EL when there were alternatives from Faroes / Wales in their pot. We've had fortunate draws but we've also had some tough draws, I think last weeks , added to Dundalk's result v Vitesse and Bohs result against PAOK last season plus the previous season Dundalk getting past Sheriff and getting to group stages shows a bit of an upward trend in general. Its also encouraging that different teams are getting big results. Remains to be seen of course if the league can keep it up.

[sparky12345678]

Rovers last year and Cork City in 2019 both received byes through rounds in the ECL where they would have both expected to be competitive - that cost the league a few co-efficient points - Sligo got a tough draw last year in EL when there were alternatives from Faroes / Wales in their pot. We've had fortunate draws but we've also had some tough draws, I think last weeks , added to Dundalk's result v Vitesse and Bohs result against PAOK last season plus the previous season Dundalk getting past Sheriff and getting to group stages shows a bit of an upward trend in general. Its also encouraging that different teams are getting big results. Remains to be seen of course if the league can keep it up.

Realistically it needs to be followed up by rovers beating shkupi. Last year they were champions and seemed to not have the ambition. This time i hope the result against the bulgarians and their relative cushion in the league shud galvanise them.
Losing this one might actually mean a tougher draw in the ecl.

One thing not mentioned here in this discussion is call ups to Ireland. I distinctly recall dundalk good year in the group stages leading to alot of positive vibes and at least one call up and 2 or 3 transfers to decent clubs, or Keith fahey versus hertha berlin for pats.

kenny as ireland manager, you imagine fai notwithstanding, would hardly overlook players etc standing out.
playing well in the group stages deepens players experience, highers their profile and improves the quality overall.

[joey B]

The losers of Qarabag or Ferencvaros for Rovers if they get through in the Europa league,not great…..

[Nesta99]

Nasty! Must win the next tie for group football, make sure now and not hope for a nice draw.

[joey B]

Ballkani (Kosovo) or KI (Faroes) in the Conference league for Rovers if they lose in the Europa league,a great draw that and be a major disappointment if they don’t get group stages of some description now….

[placid casual]

Poxy draw for next round of Europa, albeit it would be effectively a free hit as group stages of conference league guaranteed. If Rovers don't get passed Skhupi (50/50 for any non blinkered football viewers) the draw for the conference league is very much in Rovers favour. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Binfield have the luck of the Irish in these draws with Hearts or Hibs of Malta awaiting.

[ger121]

Ballkani (Kosovo) or KI (Faroes) in the Conference league for Rovers if they lose in the Europa league,a great draw that and be a major disappointment if they don’t get group stages of some description now….

Rovers really do get a lot of luck with these draws in the last 2 years. If they don’t beat a side from Macedonia, Kosovo or the Faroes from potentially two attempts, they deserve to be shot.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Sligo Rovers will face Dunajska Streda or FCSB (formerly Steaua Bucharest) in the Europa Conference League play-off if they beat Viking

We’ve had some draw in Europe if we were of any use

[joey B]

Brondby or Basel for Pats if they get past CSKA Sofia….

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Is Sligos' game live?

LOITV say they’re showing it

[Philosophizer]

If they don’t beat a side from Macedonia, Kosovo or the Faroes from potentially two attempts, they deserve to be shot.

What a comment! 😂
A tad overly-dramatic but it gave me some laugh.

[Kiki Balboa]

Sligo Rovers will face Dunajska Streda or FCSB (formerly Steaua Bucharest) in the Europa Conference League play-off if they beat Viking

We’ve had some draw in Europe if we were of any use

Not a bad draw for Sligo... They wont get past Viking, but if they do, FCSB are beatable (or as beatable as Viking are)... They won't win either rounds, but as draws go- and there are no more easy rounds- its as good as they could wish for.

Pats.... No chance if they can get through. Unlikely, but CSKA is a club in turmoil, they might have a chance... The first leg for Pats is huge, especailly with the weather. Hopefully they dont get swept away and give themselves a chance at Home.

Rovers... No excuses for not making the conference group stages now. Baiscally to get to the group stages, they just had to beat the Maltese Champions and one of Macedonia/ Kosovo/ Faro Islands champions. It really can not get any more straight forward.

[mcgonigle]

What a comment! ��
A tad overly-dramatic but it gave me some laugh.

Shooting them is probably a bit OTT alright but some heads will have to roll if they don't at least make the Conference group stages.

[legendz]

Rovers... No excuses for not making the conference group stages now. Baiscally to get to the group stages, they just had to beat the Maltese Champions and one of Macedonia/ Kosovo/ Faro Islands champions. It really can not get any more straight forward.It would seem to be a fair expectation. The qualifiers are fraught with danger but to lose two of those rounds would be a complete failure.

[pineapple stu]

Not a bad draw for Sligo... They wont get past Viking, but if they do, FCSB are beatable (or as beatable as Viking are)... They won't win either rounds, but as draws go- and there are no more easy rounds- its as good as they could wish for.
I'd always be of the view that if you're going to get knocked out (and you are) that someone nondescript like Dunajska Streda or even Straus isn't any fun. You may as well go out in a blaze of glory against Villarreal or someone like that.

On that basis, I think Pat's have the better draw (even if obviously it'll be a good feat to get either side through to it)

[pineapple stu]

Also I know Pat's are on the telly and Sligo may be a dodgy stream at best, but any word on how we can watch the mighty Shkupi? Or did I miss that?

[Asterix]

Also I know Pat's are on the telly and Sligo may be a dodgy stream at best, but any word on how we can watch the mighty Shkupi? Or did I miss that?

Rovers home game is on LOI TV not sure about the away leg.

[Kiki Balboa]

Went and did up that chart anyway - may as well while we wait for the draws tomorrow.

https://i0.wp.com/stbenilduschessclub.files.wordpress.com/2022/08/chart.png?ssl=1

So yeah, the gap between first and second in each of the last seven seasons has surpassed every season from 2000-2014 except for two (2007, which only equalled the lowest gap in the last seven years, and 2008, which was an anomalously large romp to the title from Bohs). Similarly, the gap between first and third in each of the last five seasons has been bigger than every season from 2000-2016.

2020 was only half a season of course, yet the gaps are consistent with the other seasons around then.

This year is shaping up to be a bit tighter (around 10 points to each, based on a points-per-game calculation off current standings), though I think Rovers finished strongly the last couple of seasons, helped by more strength in depth, and that may end up being the case again this year.

Anyways, it does suggest that even if Dundalk/Rovers are a match for previous champions, the chasing pack isn't what it used to be.



Great Graph! Would love to see it compared to other leagues for reference.

If you remove the outlying 2008 season, the gap between First and Second would look very consistent from 2001 to 2014. The gap only consistently widens from the 2015 season onwards, with a seemingly upward permanent trend.


Does anybody have a theory as to why this sudden, yet permanent change? From 2015 to 2021, (7 seasons) there have been three different winners (Dundalk, Cork and Rovers). So it is not like just one club changed everything. The league did change from a 12 team league to 10 in 2018... I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

-------------


Im not so sure about the hypotheses that the chasing pack is not what it used to be is proven however. Gaps in league tables can be explained in a variety of different ways.


For example, Man City won the 20/21 season with a 12 and 17 point gap to 2nd and 3rd respectively (on the higer end of our scale)- yet 4th place Chelsea won the European Cup... Hardly an example of the lack of depth in the EPL that year.


A counter point (although not so sure either of this)... Such big gaps might also reflect a growth in comptiveness at the bottom end of the league. That teams on the lower end of the league might be more consistently able to take points off the upper middle teams ( and up to 2nd place), as their standards have improved. Although, the eventual winner is still too good to drop points to these teams, the chasing pack might (or at least to a greater extent than the eventual winners).

For example, if the league had 7 Finn Harps in it (sorry Finn Harps)... The gap between Rovers and Dundalk and Derry would be much lower, as their would be less oppurtunity for those clubs to drop points. If Finn Harps and UCD were replaced by two Shelbourne teams, both Dundalk and Derry might drop points more often, but Rovers would still have enough quality to not... hence, it would be a bigger gap in this example, even if the quality of each of the three selected teams stayed the same.

-----------


Just to add as well. Between 2010 and 2019 (10 seasons) there were 5 different winners- Shamrock Rovers, Sligo, St. Pats, Dundalk and Cork. (Just saying, not like the league was uncompetitive- at least before the season.). That's more (or the same depending on how you count seasons) of the famously competitive Premier League (4 between 09/10 to 18/19 or 5 between 10/11 to 19/20).


That's also more winners that the previous decade (Shels, Bohs, Cork and Drogheda)- whom all faced crises soon after winning. In the 10 to 19 period, Cork, the only team to win a league in both decades, faced a crisis.

[Real ale Madrid]

Realistically it needs to be followed up by rovers beating shkupi. .

Absolutely - they looked to underestimate the Estonians last year - but that was a decent Flora team who got 5 points in the group stages are were in the hunt for qualification right up to group stage 6 so I'm not sure last seasons loss meant lack of ambition just came up against a good team.

So if Rovers' beat Shkupi does that mean they have been unlucky in the draw or if they lose they've been lucky? I can't keep up with all these lucky and unlucky draws!

[nigel-harps1954]

For example, if the league had 7 Finn Harps in it (sorry Finn Harps)...

We'd probably still finish in the bottom two.

[PartySaint]

Does anybody have a theory as to why this sudden, yet permanent change? From 2015 to 2021, (7 seasons) there have been three different winners (Dundalk, Cork and Rovers). So it is not like just one club changed everything. The league did change from a 12 team league to 10 in 2018... I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

.

In that time we've seen an exceptional Dundalk team which is probably the best team in LOI history and Rovers who have the resources available to them that they could probably put two teams in the league that would finish in the top 3

That obviously doesn't explain Corks years winning it but that is the lowest winning margin in that time and they just had a Seani Maguire freak season I suppose.

[pineapple stu]

Does anybody have a theory as to why this sudden, yet permanent change?
I think it was inevitable given the amount of money going to the European teams these days. The bigger question is maybe why it didn't happen sooner (as it did in a lot of other leagues).


A counter point (although not so sure either of this)... Such big gaps might also reflect a growth in comptiveness at the bottom end of the league.
I know what you mean on this, but I think we can safely rule it out :) In five of the last six seasons (including this year, when it looks odds-on) the bottom team in the Premier has picked up less than 20 points. In the previous 10 seasons, only that spectacularly bad Galway team managed it.

[sbgawa]

Absolutely - they looked to underestimate the Estonians last year - but that was a decent Flora team who got 5 points in the group stages are were in the hunt for qualification right up to group stage 6 so I'm not sure last seasons loss meant lack of ambition just came up against a good team.

So if Rovers' beat Shkupi does that mean they have been unlucky in the draw or if they lose they've been lucky? I can't keep up with all these lucky and unlucky draws!

If Rovers beat Shkupi i think they have been fortunate either way tbh.
Beat them and we are in Group stages of CL even if we lose the EL play off round
We are far better off playing in the Conference League group stages than the Europa league so a tough EL play off draw is a positive....Why, well imo....???
The prize money for the EL and Conference league is broadly similar (10/15% more in EL) but your chances of picking up points are greater due to the lessor quality of opposition in the Conference league. A group stage win in the Conference League is worth 500k with a draw 200k (rounded) so the chance of playing lessor opposition for that kind of money is a no brainer for me.
The only issue maybe is you have less chance of a "Glamour tie" with the likes of Man Utd or Spurs in the Europa League but for me we arent going to win the CL or the EL so its just about maximizing the cash for the club to reinvest into winning the league.

Edit : the other part that makes me want to avoid Man U or Spurs (or just English clubs in general) is the most annoyed i have ever been at a football match was Rovers v Spurs in the EL group stages 2011 sitting in front of this D4 accent Dad with his 12 ish year old Kid in Spurs kit loudly talking about "We can beat these lot they are ****"....I actually ended up moving seat because i was afraid id say something and it wasn't the kids fault his Dad was a Tosser

[placid casual]

Just go beat Skhupi and the rest will fall into place.
If we can't beat one team from Macedonia, Kosovo or Faroes then criticism will be forthcoming and rightly so.

[Nesta99]

Poxy draw for next round of Europa, albeit it would be effectively a free hit as group stages of conference league guaranteed. If Rovers don't get passed Skhupi (50/50 for any non blinkered football viewers) the draw for the conference league is very much in Rovers favour. Hopefully it won't come to that.
Binfield have the luck of the Irish in these draws with Hearts or Hibs of Malta awaiting.

Says a football viewer with blinkers firmly in place! :D


Just go beat Skhupi and the rest will fall into place.
If we can't beat one team from Macedonia, Kosovo or Faroes then criticism will be forthcoming and rightly so.

Rovers are better than 50/50 and would be, or should be disappointed not to progress. First time the Macedonians have been past a QR2 and struggled to get past the Gibraltarian champions, did give Dinamo Zagreb something to think about just going on the results. Its not an anti Rovers bias though, its an expectation of our league's champions to be more confident in facing this level of opposition. Its not easy to really dampen the internal expectation and minimise the disappointment if beaten and then publicly its easier to say that it was not unexpected in the first place. Par for the course for the football fan but i'd hope that a team would have real belief. A trip to Hungary after would be nice for fans if a step too far for a team.

It would be horrible to miss out on European games beyond August considering the possible opposition drawn. I dont think it will happen and I will be irked if there is a real glamour tie after missing out on seeing Dundalk play Arsenal. But yeah the 'we' stuff with 'irish' football fans was avoided, small mercies.

St Pats and Sligo are already in bonus territory and at least have avoided really costly trips, unlikely but wont write them off totally yet.

[PartySaint]

If Rovers beat Shkupi i think they have been fortunate either way tbh.
Beat them and we are in Group stages of CL even if we lose the EL play off round
We are far better off playing in the Conference League group stages than the Europa league so a tough EL play off draw is a positive....Why, well imo....???
The prize money for the EL and Conference league is broadly similar (10/15% more in EL) but your chances of picking up points are greater due to the lessor quality of opposition in the Conference league. A group stage win in the Conference League is worth 500k with a draw 200k (rounded) so the chance of playing lessor opposition for that kind of money is a no brainer for me.
The only issue maybe is you have less chance of a "Glamour tie" with the likes of Man Utd or Spurs in the Europa League but for me we arent going to win the CL or the EL so its just about maximizing the cash for the club to reinvest into winning the league.

Edit : the other part that makes me want to avoid Man U or Spurs (or just English clubs in general) is the most annoyed i have ever been at a football match was Rovers v Spurs in the EL group stages 2011 sitting in front of this D4 accent Dad with his 12 ish year old Kid in Spurs kit loudly talking about "We can beat these lot they are ****"....I actually ended up moving seat because i was afraid id say something and it wasn't the kids fault his Dad was a Tosser

UEFA have essentially set up the CL to streamline the EL, they dumped the crap into the CL and now the EL is actually an attractive tournament.

The Top seeds so far include United, Arsenal, Lazio and Roma whereas the most attractive draw in the CL is going to be Villareal. I would much rather be in the EL group stages.

[joey B]

Pats second leg against CSKA confirmed for Tallaght......

https://twitter.com/stpatsfc/status/1554489934752497664

[sbgawa]

UEFA have essentially set up the CL to streamline the EL, they dumped the crap into the CL and now the EL is actually an attractive tournament.

The Top seeds so far include United, Arsenal, Lazio and Roma whereas the most attractive draw in the CL is going to be Villareal. I would much rather be in the EL group stages.

I take your point and maybe i'm unusual but if we arent going to win a competition then for me its just about whats best for the club and potentially picking up more points and massive amounts of extra money is all that matters.
If you offered me Rovers to win the next ten leagues in a row and not qualify for Europe GS once id take it in a heart beat.

If you discount the English Clubs that i dont want to play i see no difference between Lazio / Roma of Villareal.

I'll still be cheering for Rovers to win the EL PO round if we get there as i couldn't ever cheer against Rovers but its win win either w\ay

[Real ale Madrid]

UEFA have essentially set up the CL to streamline the EL, they dumped the crap into the CL and now the EL is actually an attractive tournament.

The Top seeds so far include United, Arsenal, Lazio and Roma whereas the most attractive draw in the CL is going to be Villareal. I would much rather be in the EL group stages.

All true but attractiveness is secondary to co-efficient points / prizemoney - Rovers might pick up 5 or 6 points in the ECL but I doubt they would pick up anything in the EL.

[ontheotherhand]

Euro results is the obvious one - it's undeniable they're not at the 00s level. That whole era wasn't sustainable of course - and yet the money wasn't so ludicrous as to not be achievable again in a sustainable way. It's effectively the FAI's target for the league after all (30th in the rankings), even if they clearly haven't thought through how it might happen.

The drop in the 10s is far less stated and there's definitely an argument the league has stood still rather than declined in that time. I think we've had some very fortunate Euro draws of late that are helping push up the coefficient a bit. The chart I had a while back on five-year Euro results against nations in the 50s/40s/etc showed results getting steadily worse. But then Mura/Motherwell happened of course, which are exactly the results we haven't been having lately.

But I think there's also a case of good clubs imploding and being replaced in the scheme of things by weaker clubs (borne out by that second chart). Cork went pop as Rovers came on the scene as a challenger - fine. But them Dundalk's millions ran out and no-one has taken up the mantle of legitimate title contender from them (though Derry might soon). Bohs, Sligo and even Pat's have gone backwards the last couple of years and I don't think clubs improving (Derry; Dundalk's improvement over the last two years) has balanced that out.

And the current UCD team wouldn't have a chance against the UCD side relegated in 2008 (Gregg, Finn, McFaul, McNally, Mahon, Duggan, Conan Byrne, etc)

Ok I'm with you on the last point. The teams getting relegated these days are so far behind the rest it's getting a bit comical. The Shels side who got relegated a few years back are still one of the worst league teams I've ever seen.

Not sure about the fortunate draws. Your analysis earlier is good but I think you have to account for some of the draws that might look fortunate actually being a lot tougher than they would have been in the 00s. World football has changed pretty dramatically over time. I think the standout wins from back then would be a lot harder to achieve now as more money has gone into the top leagues. The minnows from back then are no pushovers now either. Which is absolutely a sign that we've not progressed in line with other leagues but doesn't tell me we are putting out weaker teams than we used to.

On the gap between 1/2 and the rest, I initially thought that it might have to do with the average age drop in squads I keep hearing about. There certainly seems to be more youth in the league than in the 00s when I feel like squads were full of experienced pros. The numbers don't seem to back that up though (https://www.transfermarkt.com/sse-airtricity-league-premier-division/altersschnitt/wettbewerb/IR1/plus/?saison_id=2003). Although the higher the average age, the better chance a team has to finish higher up the table (generally speaking with some outliers) the overall average age hasn't changed much since the 00s.

Interesting to look at other leagues. Took a quick glance at the EPL and La Liga and don't really see a correlating pattern. The same pattern is there but not at the same time. Not really comparable leagues I suppose but you do see periods where 2 clubs dominate in both. Usually the richer ones obviously.

The idea that the change in the number of teams qualifying for Europe having some wider effect on things is interesting. It happened right at the line we are drawing. More teams in means teams of a lower quality involved in European competition but maybe it also means that the teams who do well, tend to keep doing well. So if you occasionally get 3rd or the Cup you can invest a little bit more, but not as much as the teams who finished 1st/2nd who might go further in Europe and/or be in a better position to invest for Europe the following season.

[nigel-harps1954]

All true but attractiveness is secondary to co-efficient points / prizemoney - Rovers might pick up 5 or 6 points in the ECL but I doubt they would pick up anything in the EL.

€700k extra to qualify for the group stage of Europa League. I'd probably take that, to be honest. Take your chances with a win or a draw or two on top of that against a fellow qualifier and hope for the best.

[Real ale Madrid]

€700k extra to qualify for the group stage of Europa League. I'd probably take that, to be honest. Take your chances with a win or a draw or two on top of that against a fellow qualifier and hope for the best.

Didn't realize it was 700k. Bigger gap than previously indicated.

Zagreb 2-0 up in Bulgaria inside 10 mins.

[Knocklyonhoop]

Draw has been kind to us but the Macedonians and I’d say Kosovans / Faroese be thinking the same about drawing us. Realistically though we should get group stages of CL. Hard to see winning play off in EL if we do progress vs shkupi

pats in with a shout v Sofia?

[joey B]

Klaksvik are no mugs if Rovers do end up playing them,they beat Bodo 3-1 in the second leg after losing the away leg 3-0.had them in fits and were really unlucky not to take them to extra time......

[MichaelCherrito]

Rovers really do get a lot of luck with these draws in the last 2 years. If they don’t beat a side from Macedonia, Kosovo or the Faroes from potentially two attempts, they deserve to be shot.

Squeaky bum time.

[Nesta99]

Great Graph! Would love to see it compared to other leagues for reference.

If you remove the outlying 2008 season, the gap between First and Second would look very consistent from 2001 to 2014. The gap only consistently widens from the 2015 season onwards, with a seemingly upward permanent trend.


Does anybody have a theory as to why this sudden, yet permanent change? From 2015 to 2021, (7 seasons) there have been three different winners (Dundalk, Cork and Rovers). So it is not like just one club changed everything. The league did change from a 12 team league to 10 in 2018... I wonder if that has anything to do with it.
.

Aside from changes to the league format, it would be interesting to see when there was an increase in European participation money and if there is any correlation with this and league trend.

[ontheotherhand]

Klaksvik are no mugs if Rovers do end up playing them,they beat Bodo 3-1 in the second leg after losing the away leg 3-0.had them in fits and were really unlucky not to take them to extra time......

As happy as I was to see Zagreb beat Ludogorets (and their keeper score an OG) it doesn't bode all that well for the Skhupi tie either.

[Real ale Madrid]

mod edit - moved player discussions to new thread as requested

[EatYerGreens]

Shooting them is probably a bit OTT alright but some heads will have to roll if they don't at least make the Conference group stages.

Maybe just a knee-capping? Though that would leave them playing like UCD.

[paul_oshea]

Good to hear this kind of talk, it's an acknowledgement they're too slow to get going and showing too much respect
"We have to respect them but like in any game, we have to impose our style and our presence on the game as soon as possible"

[sparky12345678]

Is there an explanation as to why rte decided not to show the shamrock rovers game?

it is likely to be the more competitive (ie evenly matched) of the 3, not to mention a better chance for a victory (no offence to sligo or pats) and a feel good story for an irish club... in the preview for the shamrock rovers game they give the details and its a bit jarring after hyping up the match, they are not even showing it but instead the pats away leg (no offense to pats fans who im sure are happy its accessible). Is it a rights thing?
its also europa league still and not the lesser billing of ECL
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022...gerous-shkupi/

[sbgawa]

Is there an explanation as to why rte decided not to show the shamrock rovers game?

it is likely to be the more competitive (ie evenly matched) of the 3, not to mention a better chance for a victory (no offence to sligo or pats) and a feel good story for an irish club... in the preview for the shamrock rovers game they give the details and its a bit jarring after hyping up the match, they are not even showing it but instead the pats away leg (no offense to pats fans who im sure are happy its accessible). Is it a rights thing?
its also europa league still and not the lesser billing of ECL
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022...gerous-shkupi/

If i had to guess id say its cheaper for them to show the Pats away game as they are probably paying buttons for a feed.
RTE doing an outside broadcast costs a fortune due to the civil service type costs , contracts and work patterns.

To be fair to RTE on the other hand, Virgin are the holders of the rights for the Europa League so they should be answering the question here.

[EatYerGreens]

If i had to guess id say its cheaper for them to show the Pats away game as they are probably paying buttons for a feed.
RTE doing an outside broadcast costs a fortune due to the civil service type costs , contracts and work patterns.

To be fair to RTE on the other hand, Virgin are the holders of the rights for the Europa League so they should be answering the question here.

Yeah - presumably the choice is made for them by what the foreign market wants or is doing. Presumably Bulgarian TV is broadcasting it anyway, whilst North Macedonia TV isn't interested (or at least, not at a price that would suit RTÉ)

[Nesta99]

If i had to guess id say its cheaper for them to show the Pats away game as they are probably paying buttons for a feed.
RTE doing an outside broadcast costs a fortune due to the civil service type costs , contracts and work patterns.

To be fair to RTE on the other hand, Virgin are the holders of the rights for the Europa League so they should be answering the question here.

Dont forget time and cost of hyperbolized health and safety reporting at LoI grounds!

[nigel-harps1954]

If i had to guess id say its cheaper for them to show the Pats away game as they are probably paying buttons for a feed.
RTE doing an outside broadcast costs a fortune due to the civil service type costs , contracts and work patterns.

To be fair to RTE on the other hand, Virgin are the holders of the rights for the Europa League so they should be answering the question here.

Virgin are probably praying that no Irish team makes the group stages or they'll be forced to show the games.