Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[DeLorean]

Is McCarthy's contract really that much of a stumbling block financially? Obviously McCarthy wouldn't merit a couple of million a year or whatever it was they were paying Trap, so whatever money would be paid on paying off Ipswich would surely be saved on McCarthy's wages?

[BonnieShels]

Do we want McCarthy back?

[back of the net]

Do we want McCarthy back?

Can only really answer that until we know who his actual competitors for the Job are.

[back of the net]

Is McCarthy's contract really that much of a stumbling block financially? Obviously McCarthy wouldn't merit a couple of million a year or whatever it was they were paying Trap, so whatever money would be paid on paying off Ipswich would surely be saved on McCarthy's wages?

Anyone remember what Mick was on last time for the wc 2002?

A substantial increase im guessing would be in order this time around if he were to be offerred it?

[BonnieShels]

Can only really answer that until we know who his actual competitors for the Job are.

Why so?

You surely know your answer now?

[back of the net]

Why so?

You surely know your answer now?


How would I know the answer if I dont know who all the candidates are?

If the only official candidates are o neill and roy then i want mick but i seriously doubt that they are and if the FAI are speaking to others who are interested then It would be silly to pick Mick while there could be other candidates available who may be able to offer more .

[Razors left peg]

Martin O'Neill is the only one mentioned so far that I would want to see get the job. After that Im hoping that the FAI pull out a shocker that we havent even considered yet like they did with Trap. I wasnt his biggest fan in the end but when he was appointed it was good to see that the ambition was there from the FAI

[Closed Account 2]

Looks like Pulis might get the Palace job which would take him out of the running and leave MON sweating on the Norwich and Fulham roles.

[geysir]

There's something in the air about MON, seeing as his odds came crashing down with a bang this evening. Not odds on yet but he's nudging Mick off his perch.

[Stuttgart88]

The Examiner is saying Ray and Ruudy met with Martin O'Neill in Donegal last week and are due to interview Mick next week. Mick will have a Terry Connor as sidekick with an ex-player as a third coach. Mark Kennedy is believed to be leading the contenders for that role although Carsley, Cunningham and Kilbane are also possibles.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/oneill-meets-headhunters-247486.html

Kilbane favours Mick but says Keane would be good. His season taking over when Sunderland were at the bottom of Championship and ended up winning it was a great achievement.

Anyway, looks like things are hotting up.

[BonnieShels]

How would I know the answer if I dont know who all the candidates are?

If the only official candidates are o neill and roy then i want mick but i seriously doubt that they are and if the FAI are speaking to others who are interested then It would be silly to pick Mick while there could be other candidates available who may be able to offer more .

I meant more in the sense of who you wuld actually like to see in the job.

[geysir]

It's a reactionary interview process this time, to find a manager who already knows the players and who's based in England.
Would MON have dithered if he'd been offered the England job that time?

[back of the net]

The Examiner is saying Ray and Ruudy met with Martin O'Neill in Donegal last week and are due to interview Mick next week. Mick will have a Terry Connor as sidekick with an ex-player as a third coach. Mark Kennedy is believed to be leading the contenders for that role although Carsley, Cunningham and Kilbane are also possibles.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/oneill-meets-headhunters-247486.html

Kilbane favours Mick but says Keane would be good. His season taking over when Sunderland were at the bottom of Championship and ended up winning it was a great achievement.

Anyway, looks like things are hotting up.


I was always under the impression that Roy got a rather large transfer budget when he took over Sunderland though - a considerably large one for a championship club - or do i stand corrected on that ?

I cant remember how far into the season it was when he took over - did he have substantial time to turn things around there?


Kilbane is interviewd on the second captains show on irishtimes - will find it on soundcloud - its a good listen (cant post link as in work and dont have access)

[Stuttgart88]

I can't recall how much money he spent but I think he took over after they had lost their first 4 games of the season with Quinn in temporary charge.

[back of the net]

I cud well be wrong on the money things
Just remember back then I thought his Promotion with sunderland was overhyped as he had other factors on his side


Looks like were playing Slovenia in Dublin on Nov 15th - decent enough opposition i suppose

[DannyInvincible]

Guus Hiddink is definitely out of the running, according to that Examiner piece, although no indication as to how they know exactly. Can it be assumed the FAI/Houghton and Dokter were in touch with him then and he declined?

Wasn't aware Mark Kennedy was a coach at Ipswich now either.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The Ipswich view of Mick?
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/mick-mccarthy-make-good-ireland-manager-ipswich-view-1147306-Oct2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

[Crosby87]

Never heard of Soundcloud before BOTN. Thought i had heard all of it all internet wise...obviously not.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Personally (and sadly) don't think there's any current Irishman (who's available/willing) good enough.
Mick would almost be as bad a choice as RMK IMO.

[back of the net]

Never heard of Soundcloud before BOTN. Thought i had heard all of it all internet wise...obviously not.

id never doubt ur techno savy awareness crosby


here u go
https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-it-com/second-captains-football-24-10

[youngirish]

Personally (and sadly) don't think there's any current Irishman (who's available/willing) good enough.
Mick would almost be as bad a choice as RMK IMO.
I'd agree. A huge step backwards.

His previous era in charge over the course of 2 world cups and 1 and a half European Championships was generally a barren period with some good players minus the obvious exception of the 2002 World Cup whereby we qualified I believe thanks to individual player performances rather than any tactical astuteness on his part.

In fact even in that qualification campaign his management seemed often to hamper us rather than help us, the loss of the 2 goals lead against Holland away, the defensive performances away to Iran and home to Holland and Portugal, his insistence to play Kilbane instead of the immensely more talented Duff is another overriding memory. His loyalty to the likes of David Connolly who was a passenger in almost every game he played when Clinton Morrison was a clearly better option.

The opening few games of the 2204 Euro qualification were also painful to watch and left Kerr with a mountain to climb for the rest of the campaign.

Hopefully the FAI have somebody else in their sites that we have yet to hear about.

[DannyInvincible]

His previous era in charge over the course of 2 world cups and 1 and a half European Championships was a very barren period with some good players minus obviously the 2002 World Cup whereby we qualified I believe thanks to individual player performances rather than any tactical astuteness.

Very barren in contrast to what though? We've never been regular finals qualifiers.

[youngirish]

We had been during the Charlton era before he took over.

[DannyInvincible]

We had been during the Charlton era before he took over.

Three out of a possible five is undoubtedly a better record than one out of a possible three, although the Charlton era was a deviation from the norm. Our qualification record throughout our history has been fairly barren. How would Charlton have fared had he continued managing through McCarthy's years? McCarthy was left with an ageing side and had to re-build almost from scratch.

[geysir]

I'd agree. A huge step backwards.

His previous era in charge over the course of 2 world cups and 1 and a half European Championships was generally a barren period with some good players minus the obvious exception of the 2002 World Cup whereby we qualified I believe thanks to individual player performances rather than any tactical astuteness on his part.

In fact even in that qualification campaign his management seemed often to hamper us rather than help us, the loss of the 2 goals lead against Holland away, the defensive performances away to Iran and home to Holland and Portugal, his insistence to play Kilbane instead of the immensely more talented Duff is another overriding memory. His loyalty to the likes of David Connolly who was a passenger in almost every game he played when Clinton Morrison was a clearly better option.

The opening few games of the 2204 Euro qualification were also painful to watch and left Kerr with a mountain to climb for the rest of the campaign.
Hopefully the FAI have somebody else in their sites that we have yet to hear about.
I don't know how you managed to construe that overriding memory but it was McAteer who had Duff's place not Kilbane. Whenever Duff was used in the 2002 qualifiers, from our 2nd game onwards, he replaced McAteer, except in the home game against Holland where Duff and him played together. Duff was injured after that for the last game and for the play offs. Duff started in the first friendly in 2002 - got injured, in the next friendly against Denmark, Duff was the star.
After Mick left, Kerr used both Kilbane and Duff together.

[back of the net]

If memory serves correct...mick put duff upfront against the dutch...I think...with kilbane and mcateer on the wings

Also under kerr, kilbane was put in centre mid alot allowing duff to play on the left I thought

[geysir]

Duff was upfront against the Dutch
Always Kerr played Kilbane.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Mick swerved the question when asked on the FLS earlier...

[the doc]

The silence is deafening, does anyone including the FAI and the two muppets in charge of headhunting, know when the new manager will take over and who it will be?

It's turning into a Father Ted episode.

Last thing we need is that glorified pub team manager, as caretaker again.

Clueless!

Get it sorted FFS!

[Stuttgart88]

O'Neill seems to be the favoured choice but is now under pressure to commit. If he doesn't then it'll be Mick. That's what The Examiner seems to be saying. I reckon we're going to know a lot more by the end of the week.

I'm not convinced either will have us playing the type of football that even 3rd tier teams seem capable of playing these days, but I think both will bring some order and discipline back and will favour a gameplan that centres around what we do when we have the ball rather than being overly dependent on how we are without the ball.

Whatever people like the doc think of Noel King, I think King's starting point of a fluent 4231 and trusting the players to play it out from the back if that's what they feel is appropriate is the right place to be starting from. I didn't like the balance of King's selections but the principle was broadly right.

[youngirish]

I don't know how you managed to construe that overriding memory but it was McAteer who had Duff's place not Kilbane. Whenever Duff was used in the 2002 qualifiers, from our 2nd game onwards, he replaced McAteer, except in the home game against Holland where Duff and him played together. Duff was injured after that for the last game and for the play offs. Duff started in the first friendly in 2002 - got injured, in the next friendly against Denmark, Duff was the star.
After Mick left, Kerr used both Kilbane and Duff together.

I managed to construe nothing. Duff was playing left midfield for his club Blackburn at the time whilst Kilbane was playing left midfield for Ireland. How you can say McAteer, a right side midfielder, was played instead of him demands a manipulation of the facts that I can't quite seem to get my head around.

Could McCarthy have dropped McAteer and played Duff right midfield? Of course but it wasn't a position Duff had been playing for his club regularly. However the obvious place to play him would have been at the position he was used to playing, left midfield, in place of a player who IMO was considerably more limited than McAteer.

While as stated it may be true that after Mick left Kerr played Kilbane and Duff together, you are economical with the whole truth. This was mainly due to the fact that McAteer at that time was 33 and his International career was at an end. Also at this time Duff had been used mainly as a right midfielder at Chelsea once Robben arrived and had proven to be comfortable in that position, something he hadn't been expected to do at Blackburn. Also implying that because Kerr selected both that in some way exonerates McCarthy is flawed in the respect that Kerr was proven to be lacking tactically on many occasions during his tenure as manager.

[SkStu]

Whatever people like the doc think of Noel King, I think King's starting point of a fluent 4231 and trusting the players to play it out from the back if that's what they feel is appropriate is the right place to be starting from. I didn't like the balance of King's selections but the principle was broadly right.

I really like the message here and in particular the highlighted piece as those were the thoughts going through my head when I was watching the games.

[geysir]

I managed to construe nothing. Duff was playing left midfield for his club Blackburn at the time whilst Kilbane was playing left midfield for Ireland. How you can say McAteer, a right side midfielder, was played instead of him demands a manipulation of the facts that I can't quite seem to get my head around.

Could McCarthy have dropped McAteer and played Duff right midfield? Of course but it wasn't a position Duff had been playing for his club regularly. However the obvious place to play him would have been at the position he was used to playing, left midfield, in place of a player who IMO was considerably more limited than McAteer.
Duff was used to replace McAteer, thats why I can say it. Mick did drop McAteer to play Duff on the right side, Duff came on at right side v Turkey in the po and his first game in the WC 2002 campaign v Portugal away, to play on the RS in the 2nd half.
He was used more and more in that qual campaign as it progressed and his last game in those qualifiers was on the rs against Holland. As Quinn was not starting, there was space for McAteer as well
At the world cup, Duff played much of his game on the rs again, where he excelled. Maybe Mick knew a bit more about Duff than you profess to know. Afaic, Mick managed that qual campaign well and managed the introduction of Duff into the team during the qual campaign quite well.


While as stated it may be true that after Mick left Kerr played Kilbane and Duff together, you are economical with the whole truth. This was mainly due to the fact that McAteer at that time was 33 and his International career was at an end. Also at this time Duff had been used mainly as a right midfielder at Chelsea once Robben arrived and had proven to be comfortable in that position, something he hadn't been expected to do at Blackburn. Also implying that because Kerr selected both that in some way exonerates McCarthy is flawed in the respect that Kerr was proven to be lacking tactically on many occasions during his tenure as manager.
According to Young Irish, it was an error to play Duff on the RS during Mick's tenure, either because Young Irish does not remember him play on the RS for Ireland or was not impressed by his play v Netherlands or at WC 2002, but aprés Mick, all of a sudden, it was cool to play Duff on the RS, because Duff had played on RS for Chelsea.
Have I got that right?
And every manager we have had, has played Kilbane. Afair, he was never dropped, but according to Young Irish that was a defective management selection and it should be used to against Mick and his credentials for the Irish job, because he should have dropped Kilbane and played Duff on the left side.

[youngirish]

And every manager we have had, has played Kilbane. Afair, he was never dropped, but according to Young Irish that was a defective management selection and it should be used to against Mick and his credentials for the Irish job, because he should have dropped Kilbane and played Duff on the left side. He was eventually replaced by Trapattoni after struggling along in the left back position for a number of years when arguably we probably didn't have anyone much better. The fact that you can't even see that it might be a black mark against McCarthy when he continued to select Kilbane ahead of probably our most gifted player at that time means your opinion is very suspect on this matter (and many other matters). For the majority of those qualifying games Duff was either on the bench or played out of position. Anyway these gripes are minor, the main point is he often struggled to get the best out of a set of players that were considerably superior to what Trapattoni ever had to work with.

McCarthy is an average Championship manager at best and I don't see Ireland improving to any degree under him. I personally hope he doesn't get the job. If your of the opposite opinion then that's fine also. That just helps to reinforce to me that he likely is the wrong choice.

[the doc]

Whatever people like the doc think of Noel King, I think King's starting point of a fluent 4231 and trusting the players to play it out from the back if that's what they feel is appropriate is the right place to be starting from. I didn't like the balance of King's selections but the principle was broadly right.

I had you down as being one of the more enlightened on here regards the International scene.

There was no, tactical or match based information given, most players didn't even know where they were playing, until a few hours before the games.

What you saw was the players just playing it their own way.

The pub manager, didn't even have a clue, who to bring on, where or when.

Embarrassing!

But hey you carry on believing what's said in the media.

[rebelmusic]

I had you down as being one of the more enlightened on here regards the International scene.

There was no, tactical or match based information given, most players didn't even know where they were playing, until a few hours before the games.

What you saw was the players just playing it their own way.

The pub manager, didn't even have a clue, who to bring on, where or when.

Embarrassing!

But hey you carry on believing what's said in the media.

What you just said is pretty much what everyone's been saying in the media...

[Stuttgart88]

What you saw was the players just playing it their own way.

Funnily enough, that's largely what I think a good manager should do: pick good players in positions that suit them and trust them to play! If King didn't instruct the players to play it from the back then that's an improvement on explicitly not letting them play it from the back!

If you have inside knowledge on what it was like then I can't trump that, obviously.

And if I believed the media I'd think Sean St Ledger was a championship journeyman, anyone on social welfare is a lazy good for nothing thief and only unfettered free markets save us all from tyranny :)

[the doc]

And if I believed the media I'd think Sean St Ledger was a championship journeyman, anyone on social welfare is a lazy good for nothing thief and only unfettered free markets save us all from tyranny :)

Ouch!!!!!

Sad to say your probably right on all 3 accounts. 😢

[Stuttgart88]

I think I'm wrong on all 3. There's only one I have any doubt about!

[the doc]

I think I'm wrong on all 3. There's only one I have any doubt about!

I agree, I thought you were a little harsh on the welfare recipients and free market points.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's immaterial as King won't get the job anyway.

Doubtless the next incumbent will go back to a far more predictable formula?

[Stuttgart88]

Are you asking whether the new manager will go back to a more predictable formula, or whether it's doubtless that he will?

[BonnieShels]

I really like the message here and in particular the highlighted piece as those were the thoughts going through my head when I was watching the games.

Stutts on the money again.

[paul_oshea]

He was eventually replaced by Trapattoni after struggling along in the left back position for a number of years when arguably we probably didn't have anyone much better. The fact that you can't even see that it might be a black mark against McCarthy when he continued to select Kilbane ahead of probably our most gifted player at that time means your opinion is very suspect on this matter (and many other matters). For the majority of those qualifying games Duff was either on the bench or played out of position. Anyway these gripes are minor, the main point is he often struggled to get the best out of a set of players that were considerably superior to what Trapattoni ever had to work with.

McCarthy is an average Championship manager at best and I don't see Ireland improving to any degree under him. I personally hope he doesn't get the job. If your of the opposite opinion then that's fine also. That just helps to reinforce to me that he likely is the wrong choice.

There really is nothing like a YI put down :P

[ArdeeBhoy]

Stutts on the money again.

Unfortunately, probably, it's not going to be him...

[Emmet7]

M'ON in talks with Crystal Palace. Highly likely he'll get the job ahead of Pullis whose style of football wouldn't go down too well.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-candidate-martin-oneill-holds-talks-with-crystal-palace-29709237.html

I think we can now take it as a given Mick McCarthy will be named Irish Manager in less than a forthnights time. Big gamble bringing him back imo, but no-one likes a gamble more than the FAI.

[Fixer82]

One of the red tops had an article on David O'Leary being now in contention

[Stuttgart88]

Well he was on SKY last night so still has a pulse.

[DeLorean]

If the height of MON's ambition these days is a relegation battle I'm kind of glad we didn't end up with him. A serious fall from grace for a man who was seen as a potential successor to Ferguson or England national team manager not all that long ago. Celtic - Villa - Sunderland - Palace is a fairly radical regression in my opinion.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's fairly clear that O'Neill always had his heart set on a return to club management. Which is absolutely fine, but it has to rule him out of contention for the Ireland job.