Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[geysir]

Who looks after the u21's then?

[IsMiseSean]

At least it isn't Don...

[nigel-harps1954]

Super appointment on the temporary in my opinion. Bleeds Irish football and will put absolutely everything into it and not just there for a hefty paycheck.

[Darklordsbane]

Maybe Noel King should play the whole or most of the under 21's team anyway, sure they can't do much worse. New Captain for Ireland after the next 2 games!!!!

[Crosby87]

Could this in any way be an audition lads?
And give the U21s to Ruud Dokter already.

[Sheridan]

So I've been browsing this thread for a couple of minutes and have so far seen Martin O'Neill described as a master tactician and encountered the suggestion that a manager with a British-Irish cultural identity would be best equipped to do the job. You lot deserve everything you get (including Noel King).

[brine3]

the suggestion that a manager with a British-Irish cultural identity would be best equipped to do the job.

Except nobody said that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So I've been browsing this thread for a couple of minutes and have so far seen Martin O'Neill described as a master tactician and encountered the suggestion that a manager with a British-Irish cultural identity would be best equipped to do the job. You lot deserve everything you get (including Noel King).
Huh?

Anyway a brief synopsis of NK.
http://thescore.thejournal.ie/noel-king-ireland-factfile-1097499-Sep2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

[Crosby87]

I like when people who had many posts before (basically) retiring from the board come back after retirement to lament how smart they are and how bad the board is.
But if you actually have time at the office to look, as I do now; ole Sherry had some whacky posts.

[Stuttgart88]

Except nobody said that.
I said something similar, an Irish manager based in Britain. I clearly stated the thinking behind it too. I'd be keen to know why Sheridan thinks its worth sneering at. I think brine3 said it too, explaining why.

There wasn't even a hint of praise from anyone about MON's tactical savvy though. Lots about his organisation and motivation though. I think Sheridan was imagining things.

There are a lot of narky people around here these days.

The King is, eh, kind of sacked. Long live Noel King.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe Noel King should play the whole or most of the under 21's team anyway, sure they can't do much worse. New Captain for Ireland after the next 2 games!!!!
They lost 4-0 at home to Germany's u21s. Imagine how they'd do against the senior side!

Anyway, Liam Mackey hinting in 2 directions here

http://examiner.ie/sport/soccer/fai-appoint-king-caretaker-as-headhunters-eye-new-boss-244084.html

Says MON is interested but also may be holding out for a return to Norwich, or Jol's job.

And Indo being very clear about Norwich

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ray-houghton-joins-search-for-new-irish-boss-29604340.html

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, there now seems to be a lot of dithering from the FAI. As someone said on Facebook, is it to save 6 months or so salary?

In which case MO'N probably won't be available. Conversely, Hughton, McDermott et al may well be...

[Closed Account 2]

So I've been browsing this thread for a couple of minutes and have so far seen Martin O'Neill described as a master tactician and encountered the suggestion that a manager with a British-Irish cultural identity would be best equipped to do the job. You lot deserve everything you get (including Noel King).

Throw your hat in the ring John, it's a step up from Plymouth :)

[Stuttgart88]

Hmm, there now seems to be a lot of dithering from the FAI. As someone said on Facebook, is it to save 6 months or so salary?

In which case MO'N probably won't be available. Conversely, Hughton, McDermott et al may well be...

Do you not think that the FAI are being made to wait, in which case they are right to run a plan B? Reading the indo and examiner it would aoowar the FAI have been told maybe, but hang on.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who's making them wait? MO'N? Or a convenient excuse for the FAI...
They are being slated elsewhere and do generally think of them as clowns quite often. So if they feck this up, no great surprise.

[paul_oshea]

I didn't read any articles today, and yes I see the Indo one cast the most doubts about MON getting the nod.
Unlike you, I don't care that much about being right, I'm constantly making guesses :)
I see the Indo article states that King is being considered as interim. We have 2 competitive u21 games next month, why fxck around with their preparation?
That doesn't make sense to me, so it could cast doubts on the veracity of the Indo article.
MON is a top candidate no doubt.

You love being right. I actually love being wrong when it comes to the Irish national team, unfortunately for me, you and everyone else it doesn't happen often though :( :P I rather be proactive in getting things fixed/changed, most people are happy enough to let things go on as are, oblivious to the inevitable outcome, and another campaign (and 2 years of my life and footballers lives)wasted. It just how I think in general.

[geysir]

You love being right. I actually love being wrong when it comes to the Irish national team, unfortunately for me, you and everyone else it doesn't happen often though :( :P I rather be proactive in getting things fixed/changed, most people are happy enough to let things go on as are, oblivious to the inevitable outcome, and another campaign (and 2 years of my life and footballers lives)wasted. It just how I think in general.
Yes Paul, you actually are a progressive beacon of light, toiling away, while the rest of us morons are happy with status quo mediocrity, locked inside the dark dungeons of ignorance.
I don't envy your honourable and brave task:rolleyes:

[geysir]

Who's making them wait? MO'N? Or a convenient excuse for the FAI...
They are being slated elsewhere and do generally think of them as clowns quite often. So if they feck this up, no great surprise.
Who knows why MON is not being appointed immediately? Certainly not the morons who are queueing up to sling mud at the FAI and Noel King. There are idiots everywhere ready to slate the FAI no matter what they decide.

[paul_oshea]

Yes Paul, you actually are a progressive beacon of light, toiling away, while the rest of us morons are happy with status quo mediocrity, locked inside the dark dungeons of ignorance.
I don't envy your honourable and brave task:rolleyes:

Its not that dark, you have seen a beacon of light ;)

Ya I don't think they can do right either way. There must be more to the Martin O'neill thing, I think stutts was right.

[tetsujin1979]

Its not that dark, you have seen a beacon of light ;)
unfortunately it was train heading straight for us

[geysir]

It would appear that very little has leaked out from the FAI to inform us of why O'Neill wasn't getting the job served on a silver platter this week.The journalists, like Malone, are in the dark and posing both scenarios, MON wants to wait/FAI want to consider other options.

Won't be long now before 'the source' meets with the handler.

[Stuttgart88]

Super appointment on the temporary in my opinion. Bleeds Irish football and will put absolutely everything into it and not just there for a hefty paycheck.Agreed, he deserves it. He did great work with the Ladies' teams and turned the U21s around. I remember him as a great character in his playing days, always willing to engage with the Milltown crowd whether he was playing for or against Rovers.



Who looks after the u21's then?Harry McCue. Wasn't he the big blonde bruiser who used to play for Dundalk. A bit like Rutger Hauer, he just exuded menace just by the very sight of him.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who knows why MON is not being appointed immediately? Certainly not the morons who are queueing up to sling mud at the FAI and Noel King. There are idiots everywhere ready to slate the FAI no matter what they decide.

What does this mean? Anything?

Been told by a friend of a friend that it's due to the FAI having reservations about MON's effectiveness working without John Robertson. Allegedly.
JR had a heart attack and was/is recovering but apparently MO'N's performance 'steeply declined' after this happened at Sunderland.
Well, that's the theory.

Not sure I subscribe, but as plausible as any other I suppose.

As for 'idiots everywhere ready to slate the FAI', well understandable enough in many ways given their past form...
No problem with NK myself, but would like to have seen more decisive action. Trapp leaving was hardly a great surprise.

[Stuttgart88]

Get up to speed AB. That was in the papers (and here) a few days ago. Far more reliable than Facebook :)

[osarusan]

King won a League Cup with Limerick. On that evidence alone I can objectively say he's proved himself capable of the job.

[christo]

Happy with that appointment, was preparing myself for the worst in MON. Hopefully he is out of the picture come the time of picking a full time manager

[dejadem]

Harry McCue. Wasn't he the big blonde bruiser who used to play for Dundalk. A bit like Rutger Hauer, he just exuded menace just by the very sight of him.


As a manager he won the 1st divison with Drogheda United and then successfully kept us in the premier via a play-off. He was sacked and replaced by Paul Doolin the following year.

[Stuttgart88]

As a manager he won the 1st divison with Drogheda United and then successfully kept us in the premier via a play-off. He was sacked and replaced by Paul Doolin the following year.How do you rate him as a coach?

[DeLorean]

It's suppose it's possible that the FAI and Martin O'Neill have already got a deal in place. It could very well suit both parties to wait a couple of months. The FAI appear like they have exhausted every avenue with careful deliberation and save a few euro in the process. Martin O'Neill gets to avoid a baptism of fire and probable confidence sapping start in Cologne. O'Neill will realise that starting well could be hugely important in getting the media/fans onside and, more importantly, the players to buy into what he's trying to do. That said, I'm not sure where Ray Houghton and the Ruud Dokter would fit into all this, other than a possible smokescreen.

[geysir]

What does this mean? Anything?

Been told by a friend of a friend that it's due to the FAI having reservations about MON's effectiveness working without John Robertson. Allegedly.
JR had a heart attack and was/is recovering but apparently MO'N's performance 'steeply declined' after this happened at Sunderland.
Well, that's the theory. Not sure I subscribe, but as plausible as any other I suppose
You have just supported my point, but you probably didn't know that ;)
My point was
"Who knows why MON is not being appointed immediately"

and you have just repeated one of the many rumoured reasons why.



As for 'idiots everywhere ready to slate the FAI', well understandable enough in many ways given their past form...
No problem with NK myself, but would like to have seen more decisive action. Trapp leaving was hardly a great surprise.
Actually the full quote was
"There are idiots everywhere ready to slate the FAI no matter what they decide."

Whether anybody understands the reactions of an idiot, is besides the point,
but to react negatively, regardless of what the FAI do, is what defines a form of idiocy.

[jbyrne]

Martin O'Neill gets to avoid a baptism of fire and probable confidence sapping start in Cologne.

surely any manager worth his salt would relish a pop at the no. 2 team in the world without the usual pressure that goes with such a qualifier?

[Stuttgart88]

I reckon if MON wanted the job unequivocally he'd have been appointed by now. Just my guess.

If he really wanted the job and the FAI were indeed dithering he could engage in some PR work like "I'm available and keen on managing Ireland" to put the pressure on the FAI. Despite some justified concerns described by some, I think O'Neill remains the overwhelming popular choice and I'm not sure the FAI would risk the loss of face.

It's also possible that a deal has been agreed but the FAI need to be seen to be doing due diligence, or alternatively O'Neill has simply been non-comittal and the FAI need to explore other options.

I can't imagine for a moment that the prospect of losing a really hard but probably meaningless game would deter anyone from taking the job immediately, for whatever reason.

[geysir]

It's suppose it's possible that the FAI and Martin O'Neill have already got a deal in place. It could very well suit both parties to wait a couple of months. The FAI appear like they have exhausted every avenue with careful deliberation and save a few euro in the process. Martin O'Neill gets to avoid a baptism of fire and probable confidence sapping start in Cologne. O'Neill will realise that starting well could be hugely important in getting the media/fans onside and, more importantly, the players to buy into what he's trying to do. That said, I'm not sure where Ray Houghton and the Ruud Dokter would fit into all this, other than a possible smokescreen.
It's a possibility.
But is there much call for the FAI to be seen to be doing a scour of the possible candidates? In the media it was all but assumed MON was the candidate and hardly a whimper about looking at other possibilities.
But I suppose (should MON not meet expectations) all that would not stop a torrent of hindsight fuelled experts, criticising the haste with which the MON appointment was fast tracked, stupid FAI etc etc. Why didn't they wait? why didn't they interview Philippe and Paul?

I can see why MON would rather skip association with this qual campaign. But in that case, MON could be announced as taking up position in February, no need to set up a smokescreen search in order to save MON's face.
The search does look real, Ray and the Doc.

[DeLorean]

surely any manager worth his salt would relish a pop at the no. 2 team in the world without the usual pressure that goes with such a qualifier?

Yeah it might not be a factor at all, I'm only (wildly) speculating to be honest. He wouldn't have much time between now and the Germany game to have much of an impact on the team though really.

[ArdeeBhoy]

"There are idiots everywhere ready to slate the FAI no matter what they decide."

Whether anybody understands the reactions of an idiot, is besides the point,
but to react negatively, regardless of what the FAI do, is what defines a form of idiocy.
So what is/was your point then, with regards to what I posted.

The FAI have little enough credibility in certain quarters without giving their critics further ammunition.
'a form of idiocy' ​it might be, but not exactly surprising either.

[Stuttgart88]

The FAI deserves criticism for many things which makes people assume that failure to immediately land MON is down to inertia, incompetence or penny pinching. I'd say the truth is far more likely to be that MON is refusing to commit.


Edit: Emmet Malone suggesting the former is closer to the truth!

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/noel-king-may-look-to-anthony-stokes-and-darron-gibson-1.1538740

[ArdeeBhoy]

Because they appear to be dealing with this in their usual 'ham-fisted' manner...
They might come up with a better candidate (by accident), but reckon MO'N could have done a job, at least for the next campaign.

[geysir]

The Examiner sides with O'Neill waiting to see what happens at Fulham and Norwich.

It's reported that Noel King is carrying a lot of good will into the two games he'll be in charge for.
No wonder, he's played/coached with just about every senior club in the league.
In a few weeks time there should be a fair few managers available after the last qualifiers, for Ruud and Ray to sort out.

[Bungle]

I actually don't have a problem with the FAI taking their time. While MON has his positives and a good track record, I would see a few reasons for not appointing him. I do feel that when he was at his managerial pomp a few years ago, he was dead keen on the England job. He wasn't too bothered about the Ireland job then. He strikes me as a fella that could have his head very easily turned during a campaign if something he deemed bigger and better came along. I also would have major concerns about how he plays the game, even if in the past, he has won trophies playing that way. I do feel that we need to at least try to play football and McCarthy, Coleman and Brady are a good bunch of footballers to try and aspire to do this with. There is a supporting cast of lads like Pilks, Gibson, Clark, Wilson, Hoolahan and Long, as well as the hope that some new lads will emerge by the start of qualification for the Euros to add hope. While managers are judged primarilly on winning, I do think that by playing football or attempting to do so, will go some way to boosting attendances at games and getting the fickle Irish public back in support of the team.

Also as Geysir says there will be a few more possible candidates in the coming weeks, be it in Britain or on the continent. Why rush what is such a crucial appointment, just to get an extra 10-20k of people in the Aviva for the Kazakh game.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm happy the FAI haven't rushed into anything or felt pressured to do so, espcially if they've been having second thoughts on O'Neill given the likely absence of John Robertson from any possible role. We know the money is there so I don't see how they'd be open to accusations of penny-pinching or whatever. With Denis O'Brien supplying the necessary funds again, I'd imagine O'Neill would have had to have been unreasonably demanding in terms of the offered salary to turn down any offer. Of course, that's not to assume an offer was made in the first place.

When does King announce the squad for the Germany and Kazakhstan games? Friday, is it? Based on his comments to the media since being appointed, I'm expecting quite a change in approach - he trusts our players' skills and technical ability - so it'll be exciting to see how he freshens things up with regard to the selection of the squad. I understand he's going to watch Stoke take on Tranmere this evening, so maybe even Stephen Ireland is in line for an attempted re-call?

[Closed Account 2]

I actually don't have a problem with the FAI taking their time. While MON has his positives and a good track record, I would see a few reasons for not appointing him. I do feel that when he was at his managerial pomp a few years ago, he was dead keen on the England job. He wasn't too bothered about the Ireland job then. He strikes me as a fella that could have his head very easily turned during a campaign if something he deemed bigger and better came along. I also would have major concerns about how he plays the game, even if in the past, he has won trophies playing that way. I do feel that we need to at least try to play football and McCarthy, Coleman and Brady are a good bunch of footballers to try and aspire to do this with. There is a supporting cast of lads like Pilks, Gibson, Clark, Wilson, Hoolahan and Long, as well as the hope that some new lads will emerge by the start of qualification for the Euros to add hope. While managers are judged primarilly on winning, I do think that by playing football or attempting to do so, will go some way to boosting attendances at games and getting the fickle Irish public back in support of the team.

Also as Geysir says there will be a few more possible candidates in the coming weeks, be it in Britain or on the continent. Why rush what is such a crucial appointment, just to get an extra 10-20k of people in the Aviva for the Kazakh game.

He also walked out on Norwich and Villa after disagreeing with the chairmen at those clubs (wanting more funds). It's something that does happen fairly frequently in football, but the timing of his decisions (the day of a Norwich game at Leicester - the team he would subsequently join, and less than a week before the season started at Villa) left the clubs with a lot of problems. He may be a great man motivator and perhaps he is the ideal choice to manage us but if he takes the job don't be surprised at all if he leaves us to take another job the day before a big qualification match. Maybe that is a risk with any manager we appoint, but it seems a very pronounced risk with MON, compared to say Mick McCarthy.

[IsMiseSean]

When does King announce the squad for the Germany and Kazakhstan games? Friday, is it?

I think it was suppose to be Friday but it's now being announced on Monday. King is attending games in England at the weekend.

[geysir]

I'd say Noel enjoyed mulling over and planning his itinerary for the next few days.

[paul_oshea]

I'd say he did and dead right. It's nice in a way that they do give reward like this to long serving members. I read on some site today that he could be a contender, long way off but a contender all the same.

I wonder was O'Neill looking for some release clause like you are suggesting above edmundo(well not the release clause bit) and perhaps the FAI went a bit cold at the idea.

[geysir]

Hard to imagine O'Neill leaving all of a sudden before a big qualification match, never mind wanting a release clause to enable him to do so :)
Did he ever leave a club before a cup final?

[brine3]

I'd say he did and dead right. It's nice in a way that they do give reward like this to long serving members. I read on some site today that he could be a contender, long way off but a contender all the same.

You never know, if by some miracle we come away from Köln with three points, and we then absolutely plaster Kazakhstan, and Austria and Germany both win in Stockholm, and the Austrians lose away to the Faroe Islands, then Noel King might need to stick around for the playoffs.

[paul_oshea]

Ha I was just thinking the same today.

Well all but the faroes beating Austria.

[Grafter]

I wonder would a nation like Wales consider jettisoning their current manager and appointing someone like Trapattoni?

[geysir]

I wonder would a nation like Wales consider jettisoning their current manager and appointing someone like Trapattoni?
Is there anyone like Trapattoni?

[Grafter]

Is there anyone like Trapattoni?

No there's one Trap... I wonder are Wales perhaps getting cold feet about giving Coleman a new deal (with good reason!) and perhaps Mr Trapattoni is just what they are looking for? They do have players like Bale, Ramsey, Allen and Williams to form a decent team around for Euros IMO