Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[DeLorean]

Taxi drivers, private forums... the usual really.*


*see page 54 of this thread for more.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd have some reservations about Mick but on balance I think he'd be a good appointment. It's not like he didn't make some odd selections and there were a lot of late away goals conceded. Ipswich's recent throwing away of a 4-1 lead at Derby made me shudder! He also had a Trap-like tendency towards picking favourites.

On the plus side he's popular so will bring some feelgood back, can stand up to the antagonists, he's a leader and his club track record is good enough. I'm not sure you can say that any club he has been at hasn't benefited from him being there and I think he has generally got the best out of what he had to work with. He has the right idea on playing the game and was never afraid to trust young talent.

[Straightstory]

No-one knows the pressures of the Irish job more than Mick McCarthy and also how its a virtually impossible job. You can say a lot of things about Trapattoni but he was never afraid of a challenge throughout his career and taking on the Irish job in 2008 was a huge challenge. Credit to him for taking the job in the first place. Its still the same challenge today with the high expectations and the armchair pundits criticising everything and expecting us to reach every major tournament. If we play an attack minded team against the likes of Germany we'd get torn to shreds. We did as it was, but managed to keep it 3-0 only by defending en masse. In games against Spain and Germany it will always be a question of getting as many men behind the ball as possible because we simply aren't in the same league as them and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Everyone in Ireland thinks they are an expert on the national team and how we should play and the people who claim to be the biggest experts are those who have achieved least in the game.

Getting back to McCarthy, I'd be surprised if he took the job as I doubt he needs the stress at this stage of his life. On balance he was probably the best Irish manager in our history but even he would struggle with the current squad. Before he had the two Keanes, Duff, Irwin and several other top class players at their peak.

Certainly applies to me. I have achieved absolutely nothing in the game, yet I regard myself as an expert (if not one of the biggest ones).

Mick's ruled himself out, hasn't he? Seems happy at Ipswich.

[Razors left peg]

Really dont want McCarthy back. The Championship is his level as a manager

[Bungle]

Was reading about Iceland, who have a great chance of making the playoffs. Their manager is Lars Lagerbach, the former Swedish manager. I know very little about him, but he did well with Sweden if I recall and he is clearly doing well with Iceland. He might be a good shout and would be cheaper than some of the other names mentioned.

[DannyInvincible]

Was reading about Iceland, who have a great chance of making the playoffs. Their manager is Lars Lagerbach, the former Swedish manager. I know very little about him, but he did well with Sweden if I recall and he is clearly doing well with Iceland. He might be a good shout and would be cheaper than some of the other names mentioned.

As you point out yourself, he's doing exceptionally well with Iceland. That also means he's in a job at the minute and it's unlikely he'll want to give that up if it means there's a significant chance he can manage them in Rio next summer.

[Stuttgart88]

Doesn't his contract expire at the end of this group?

[DannyInvincible]

Doesn't his contract expire at the end of this group?

Maybe so; wasn't aware of that. Still, if he does manage to qualify with Iceland, I can't imagine he'd be dazzled by our prospects. And the play-offs are mid-November. Aren't the FAI now hoping to have a new man in by the start of November? Or is Christmas still the set deadline?

[Emmet7]

We need to teach good habits to young players from about the age of 10 onwards, such as the Barcelona 6 second rule about getting the ball back.

Its too late to do anything with senior players, they've been bred in the English game.

From now on send young talented LOI players or talented teenagers to Spain, Italy or Holland. Anywhere but the EPL where they learn bad habits and are afraid to play football.

[Stuttgart88]

Why would these countries want our players when they have good players of their own?

[Bungle]

The Liverpool academy has been namechecked by none other than Pep Guardiola as the second best in the world. There are a number of Irish there and O'Hanlon and McLaughlin (if we include him) are probably in the top 5 talents at youth/reserve level at the club, while Daniel Cleary has captained their youth team. Villa had half a team of Irish and they won the NEXTGEN last year. At Man City, Ian Lawlor and Jack Byrne are terrific talents, while there is the chance that our next superstar will be a fella like Noe Baba from a less glamorous club.

I do think that there is alot of doom and gloom around the national team and rightly so. There is much to change about how we develop young players and our chronic lack of top coaches at junior levels. One of my best mates is just back from Barcelona, where he was with the FAI. He said that in Catolonia alone, they have about 2000 coaches. Coaching isn't everything, but it goes a long way. Kids now don't play on the street like many of us would have done. The Whelan's and Bradys of this world might not have had coaches with badges, but they learnt their skills and technique on the street. Sadly, now more than ever young players need coaching from properly qualified coaches.

However, while there is much doom and gloom, we should not go totally negative. We are still producing some excellent players and there are some terrific underage talents in this country. We also have a good core of very decent players in the senior team and no matter whether we are 2nd or 3rd seeds for Euro 2016, I would be confident that we will qualify. I would feel that while we are a long way from the holy grail of Belgium (or even Switzerland or Greece), we are also a long way from minnows, despite what the barstoolers will tell you.

[Kingdom]

Was reading about Iceland, who have a great chance of making the playoffs. Their manager is Lars Lagerbach, the former Swedish manager. I know very little about him, but he did well with Sweden if I recall and he is clearly doing well with Iceland. He might be a good shout and would be cheaper than some of the other names mentioned.

lagerback was touted here around the Trap appointment. If he wasn't touted, then he was definitely used as an example of getting a coach who would get results with similar talent, but at a much cheaper outlay.

I think there is a big similarity to Iceland now and Ireland when Trap was appointed. A well-respected manager taking over a team well below what he was used to and getting them results

Again though, that's a little simplistic. They have a couple of really good attacking players, and they seem to have had something of a golden generation of underage squads (our 1998 Under 17s & 19 teams) in 2007/2008/2009 by their standards and this has to have contributed.

In 2007 their under 17's made it to the Euro finals, qualifying ahead of Romania, Lithuania, Russia, Portugal, but making no impression on the finals.
Under 19 success hasn't followed, but that original batch of 17's was unlucky to lose out on a place in the 2008 u19 Euro's (they lost to a last min goal).
The 21's then qualified for Euro 2011, eliminating Germany in the group with 4 points from the double header (a Germany squad that had Muller, Boateng, Badstuber, Hummels, Howedes, Schurrle, Grosskreutz), and then Scotland Home and away in the play-offs.

Another batch of 17's made it to the finals again in 2012 (as an unseeded team from the initial stage) eliminating Greece, Israel, Denmark and Scotland along the way.
The most current batch just topped a group containing Russia, Slovakia and Azerbaijan, ahead of the elite stage.

The current 21's are well placed to make the play-offs too, level with France at the top of their group.

The point to all of the above is that it doesn't appear to be a coincidence that Iceland are doing well at senior level. Sure, their group is a fricking doddle, but if you analyse their senior and underage players, it's no longer filled with Icelandic troll division 1 players/clubs. Ajax, Sampadoria, Bruge, Helsingborg, Heerenveen, Copenhagen, Odense, Belenseses, Spurs, Alkmaar, Cardiff. Aarhus, Nijmigen, PSV.
That's a serious collection of clubs. Diverse, and with plenty of different styles they're being exposed to. It would be good to figure out what has happened over there at underage level, if anything at all.

Geysir (who I'm starting to doubt is from Monaghan at all now!) would be able to give a proper appraisal of "the boys", as he calls them.

[Kingdom]

The Liverpool academy has been namechecked by none other than Pep Guardiola as the second best in the world......, despite what the barstoolers will tell you.


And for all that, when Ireland play in Lansdowne Road, if the ball is not launched into the opponents half within 6 seconds, or if we try to string 6/7 passes together, then the crowd gets agitated for the long ball to the striker.

It's not just kids you have to battle with, it's joe public too.

[brine3]

The Liverpool academy has been namechecked by none other than Pep Guardiola as the second best in the world.

After Ajax, I assume.

Cheeky Pep.

[Emmet7]

The Liverpool academy has been namechecked by none other than Pep Guardiola as the second best in the world. There are a number of Irish there and O'Hanlon and McLaughlin (if we include him) are probably in the top 5 talents at youth/reserve level at the club, while Daniel Cleary has captained their youth team. Villa had half a team of Irish and they won the NEXTGEN last year. At Man City, Ian Lawlor and Jack Byrne are terrific talents, while there is the chance that our next superstar will be a fella like Noe Baba from a less glamorous club.

I do think that there is alot of doom and gloom around the national team and rightly so. There is much to change about how we develop young players and our chronic lack of top coaches at junior levels. One of my best mates is just back from Barcelona, where he was with the FAI. He said that in Catolonia alone, they have about 2000 coaches. Coaching isn't everything, but it goes a long way. Kids now don't play on the street like many of us would have done. The Whelan's and Bradys of this world might not have had coaches with badges, but they learnt their skills and technique on the street. Sadly, now more than ever young players need coaching from properly qualified coaches.

However, while there is much doom and gloom, we should not go totally negative. We are still producing some excellent players and there are some terrific underage talents in this country. We also have a good core of very decent players in the senior team and no matter whether we are 2nd or 3rd seeds for Euro 2016, I would be confident that we will qualify. I would feel that while we are a long way from the holy grail of Belgium (or even Switzerland or Greece), we are also a long way from minnows, despite what the barstoolers will tell you.

Our best talent does indeed go to Academies like Liverpool but they rarely make it into the first team. They are usually loaned out at 18, 19 or 20 then end up playing championship or league one where hoof ball is the norm. Even in the lower divisions in Spain I'd imagine they try to play ball. Barcelona reserves play in the spanish second division for example. It's all about habits and philosophy. 30% of the EPL are English players, mostly defenders and goalies. Their academies aren't as cracked up as they are supposed to be.

[Kingdom]

The Liverpool Academy has been lauded constantly, but it still is struggling to show it's true worth. The problem to me appears to be that they are hoovering up a lot of talent around England and Europe, but then they don't seem to know what to do with them.

They've been undergoing a transformation since Benitez got rid of Steve Heighway. It's no surprise it's rated so highly because the guy who was chief at La Masia was Rodolfo Borrell, who is head of the Liverpool academy, and previously Pep Segura
The problem for Liverpool is that the players that a lot is hinging on, are the quick skillful continentals, such as Suso, Teixeira and Canos, and historically these players have struggled with the breakthrough to more adult football, as they just were not physically able for the PL.
Dani Pacheco, Kristian Nemeth, Dalli Valle, are just some of the hype and then bust players. Jon Flanagan and Conor Coady were widely lauded, but neither will make it at the highest level, and it remains to be seen if Andre Wisdom will either.

So the LFC academy really will need another 10 years before it can be properly judged, as it really is still in it's infancy, and hasn't produced anything yet.

[ifk101]

Just to clarify child trafficking is okay when a football is involved.

[DannyInvincible]

'Liam Brady backs Mick McCarthy to return as Republic of Ireland manager': http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480504-brady-backs-mccarthy-for-irish-job/


It’s almost 11 years to the day since Mick McCarthy last managed the Republic of Ireland, but RTÉ pundit Liam Brady would like to see the current Ipswich Town manager back in the hot-seat.

2002 was the year of Saipan. There is no need to revisit that. On the pitch, Ireland’s World Cup campaign in the Far East ended with a penalty shootout defeat against the Spanish. McCarthy was still in charge when the Euro 2004 qualifiers commenced.

However, defeats against Russia and Switzerland in their opening matches had the Irish on the back foot from the off. The manager did not survive.

Much water has flowed under the bridge since then and the FAI are again in search of a manager. Martin O’Neill, Roy Keane and one Mick McCarthy are the names getting most mention as of now.

Speaking to RTÉ Sport, Liam Brady was in no doubt which one of that trio he would like to see get the job.

The former Ireland international said: “I don’t know what Mick’s contractual situation is at Ipswich. What I do know is that he has demonstrated before his capability to do the job.

"He has broad shoulders and had to put up with an awful lot of messing when Saipan happened. People turned against him; public opinion turned against him and most of the media turned against him on the back of how popular Roy Keane was.

"However Mick got on with it and he demonstrated since then that he is a very capable manager. I don’t whether it would be possible to get him, but he would be number one on my list.”

When asked about the process so far in finding a successor to Giovanni Trapattoni, Brady did not give it a ringing endorsement.

“I haven’t been impressed, but maybe that’s the circumstances. I think we all expected that Martin O’Neill would be the next manager, but that hasn’t happened. I believe that rules Martin out.

He may think that the expectations are too high within the country as to what the team should be achieving.

“I don’t like the process and I feel sorry for Noel King after he was told that he will not be considered for the job as full-time manager.”

[Yard of Pace]

The Liverpool Academy has been lauded constantly, but it still is struggling to show it's true worth. The problem to me appears to be that they are hoovering up a lot of talent around England and Europe, but then they don't seem to know what to do with them.

They've been undergoing a transformation since Benitez got rid of Steve Heighway. It's no surprise it's rated so highly because the guy who was chief at La Masia was Rodolfo Borrell, who is head of the Liverpool academy, and previously Pep Segura
The problem for Liverpool is that the players that a lot is hinging on, are the quick skillful continentals, such as Suso, Teixeira and Canos, and historically these players have struggled with the breakthrough to more adult football, as they just were not physically able for the PL.
Dani Pacheco, Kristian Nemeth, Dalli Valle, are just some of the hype and then bust players. Jon Flanagan and Conor Coady were widely lauded, but neither will make it at the highest level, and it remains to be seen if Andre Wisdom will either.

So the LFC academy really will need another 10 years before it can be properly judged, as it really is still in it's infancy, and hasn't produced anything yet.

Excellent knowledge there. I had LFC TV for free in my house for a while (not sure who subscribed to it) and watched it a fair bit ( I was a mature student, in my defence!!) and David Amoo was breaking all sorts of goalscoring records. I think he's over 20 and in League 1 now. Scoring goals, yeah, but not likely to turn out for England anytime soon.
The Hungarian lad is an excellent case. I remember googling him at the time and it seemed a matter of time before he'd be lording it in the EPL.

Also, back further, Darren Potter played Champions League when Liverpool were "a force" and now turns out for MK Dons. How does THAT happen??? :(

[DeLorean]

LFC TV is free with the basic Sky package. It was the last time I flicked on to it anyway.

[brine3]

The Liverpool youth team getting destroyed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x7hYMciT9U) at Anfield. (Is it Anfield?)

[geysir]

lagerback was touted here around the Trap appointment. If he wasn't touted, then he was definitely used as an example of getting a coach who would get results with similar talent, but at a much cheaper outlay.
Lars Lagerback's replacement in Sweden, then the Swedish version of an antithesis to Lars, has reverted somewhat to Swedish type, reinstalling the infamous Lagerback opening 15/20 minutes of extreme caution and is partial to periods of protection, with the packed defence and plenty of hoofing in evidence.
Meanwhile, Lars has been transformed from staid plodder with Sweden to a kind of a, je ne sais quoi, liberated, grass smoking, free thinking, football hippy with Iceland.
Maybe next year, a visitor to Iceland will be landing at Lars Lagerback Airport, travel along Rue Lars towards Hotel Lars which faces out towards Stadium Lars. But thats not real fame here, real fame would be when they decide to name a mountain after you.

Probably Lars does not fit in with the blank chequebook type personality candidate that would get Ruud and Ray's attention.

[Bungle]

The Liverpool Academy has been lauded constantly, but it still is struggling to show it's true worth. The problem to me appears to be that they are hoovering up a lot of talent around England and Europe, but then they don't seem to know what to do with them.

They've been undergoing a transformation since Benitez got rid of Steve Heighway. It's no surprise it's rated so highly because the guy who was chief at La Masia was Rodolfo Borrell, who is head of the Liverpool academy, and previously Pep Segura
The problem for Liverpool is that the players that a lot is hinging on, are the quick skillful continentals, such as Suso, Teixeira and Canos, and historically these players have struggled with the breakthrough to more adult football, as they just were not physically able for the PL.
Dani Pacheco, Kristian Nemeth, Dalli Valle, are just some of the hype and then bust players. Jon Flanagan and Conor Coady were widely lauded, but neither will make it at the highest level, and it remains to be seen if Andre Wisdom will either.

So the LFC academy really will need another 10 years before it can be properly judged, as it really is still in it's infancy, and hasn't produced anything yet.

You know alot more than I do so I'm bowing to you my good sir!!

I guess what I would say is that Liverpool are trying to sign players that are very good footballers, whether they are from Lisbon or Listowel.

[Bungle]

Our best talent does indeed go to Academies like Liverpool but they rarely make it into the first team. They are usually loaned out at 18, 19 or 20 then end up playing championship or league one where hoof ball is the norm. Even in the lower divisions in Spain I'd imagine they try to play ball. Barcelona reserves play in the spanish second division for example. It's all about habits and philosophy. 30% of the EPL are English players, mostly defenders and goalies. Their academies aren't as cracked up as they are supposed to be.

Fair point that. I actually think that we produce quite alot of very gifted ball players. When they don't make the grade for various reasons at the big clubs, they go down the divisions or back to the LOI, where technique and skill is less in demand.

I do wonder how good a player McPhail for one may have been if he was at Ajax.

[OwlsFan]

I do wonder how good a player McPhail for one may have been if he was at Ajax.

Better than he is at Sheffield Wednesday I hope.

[geysir]

The song could have gone
'By the time I got to Sheffield, my talent was all burnt out'

[Kingdom]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/brian-kerr-republic-of-ireland-can-sign-off-with-a-swansong-against-kazakhstan-1.1560801

Last line is interesting; does it confirm the Cryuff rumours?

[DannyInvincible]

So, has Cruyff been spotted at the game or what?

[Charlie Darwin]

So, has Cruyff been spotted at the game or what?
If the FAI want Cruyff to take charge, they'll do well to keep him as far away from the game as they can.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha.

If it's him, it's gonna end in more tears.

[BonnieShels]

So did anyone see him last night?

[Crosby87]

Don't let Denis O'Brien choose next manager, insists one reporter:
http://www.football.co.uk/republic_of_ireland/o_brien-funded_trapattoni_experiment_should_warn_fai_about _choosing_next_ireland_boss_rss4447705.shtml

[DannyInvincible]

Pretty sure that's a Sunderland-based writer from Derry if that's the Paddy Appleton I know. Anyway,you appear to have misread him. Denis O'Brien is not and will not be involved in the consultation or selection process. Houghton and Dokter are the duo tasked with selecting our new manager. O'Brien wasn't involved in the selection of Trap either. He's just providing the necessary funds.

[Emmet7]

My own choice would be someone from Spain or familiar with the game in Spain - Michael Laudrap or the guy now managing Southampton would have been ideal. But I'd say there are dozens more like them out there. They are light years ahead of the hoof ball merchants rared in the British game like O'Neill and McCarthy.

[DannyInvincible]

the guy now managing Southampton

Pochettino might even have Irish roots; he's from a town called Murphy in Santa Fe!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Much as I love Houghton, should he be involved either?

And would the S'ton lad want to manage Ireland, a ridiculous salary aside?

[back of the net]

They are light years ahead of the hoof ball merchants rared in the British game like O'Neill and McCarthy.

When I think back on McCarthys Ireland Reign , hoofball is the last thing that comes to mind

[brine3]

Morten Olsen might be moving on soon enough...

[Closed Account 2]

If he did I think we should give him serious consideration, he did very well with Denmark in the Euros and to get to the World Cup before that. Even this campaign finishing 2nd behind Italy is fair enough.

Stimac is as good as gone from Croatia, talk of Niko Kovac or maybe Igor Tudor replacing him. I wouldnt touch Stimac myself as he has taken what was on paper one of the best teams at Euro 2012 and turned them into a team that has lost home and away to Scotland - it also suggests how much better Bilic was. Poland have got shot of Waldemar Fornalik and Sandor Egervari has left Hungary. Koller's kept his job as Austria manager, but he is being heavily linked with the vacant role at Nurnburg after Wiesinger was sacked after losing 5-0 at home to Hamburg (in Bert Van Maarwijk's first game in charge for them), so Austria could also be on the look out for a new manager.

[Stuttgart88]

Stimac ....turned Croatia into a team that has lost home and away to Scotland - it also suggests how much better Bilic was
I think that might show what Strachan has brought to Scotland. They look a far better outfit than under Levein, as did Wales under Speed rather than Coleman. What all this suggests to me is that we don't need a genius tactician from some far flung land, we need someone who can motivate and organise with a decent understanding of the modern game. Does MCCarthy fit that bill?

[Emmet7]

When I think back on McCarthys Ireland Reign , hoofball is the last thing that comes to mind

So Niall Quinn was in the team for his silky skills on the deck? When we were losing to Germany and Spain WC 2002 the tactic was hoof it long to the big man.

[back of the net]

So Niall Quinn was in the team for his silky skills on the deck? When we were losing to Germany and Spain WC 2002 the tactic was hoof it long to the big man.

Niall Quinn's skills were quite good actually.


If your basing McCarthys playing philosphy as hoofball on your above mail then you are deluded sir.

When we were losing to spain in WC 2002 - we most certainly DID NOT hoof the ball

[IsMiseSean]

There's hoofball and then there's constant hoofball which Trap seem to enjoy

[Charlie Darwin]

We hoofed it in moderation but we also had Damien Duff in his pomp who was a guaranteed out-ball. Point is we had the team set up to play the ball short or long, which forces the opposition to think a little bit more than just punting it up as soon as you get it.

[back of the net]

We had some great players in their pomp Charlie - agreed .

But I think classifying Micks playing philosphhy as Ireland manager as per Emmets "hoofball" does a big disservice to Mick and his general playing style

[BonnieShels]

So Niall Quinn was in the team for his silky skills on the deck? When we were losing to Germany and Spain WC 2002 the tactic was hoof it long to the big man.

You’re behind in the closing stages of a group game of a World Cup and a Second Round match... do you:

a. Try and pass it around and hope to get a break in a rigid German defence or a Spanish one we had trouble breaking down for the entire game
or
b. Hoof it long to a one of the most talented players we have who is an expert at taking knockdowns in the hope that one of them breaks to the most potent goalscorer that Ireland has ever produced?

Yeah! Tiki-bleedin’-taka all the way!

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't agree with Emmet's description of hoofball but my recollection is that Mick is practically wedded to 442. I know he did some experiments early in his tenure and I suppose it's fair to say 442 was perfect for the players we had back then, but I'd have some concern that Mick doesn't really have the thorough understanding of other shapes. I liked King's thinking wrt 4231, but felt Doyle took away from the balance with negative effect.

[Charlie Darwin]

McCarthy's preferred formation is 442 but he changed to 451 for a good spell when Wolves were in the Premier League. I think he only really did it when Doyle was available though, and reverted back to 442 when Fletcher was signed.

[back of the net]

442 was his ireland choice. It was his tried and trusted after a few other experimentations....thinking in particular against iceland and macedonia at home in wc98 quals and croatia away in euro 2000.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm thinking more and more Roy Keane. You won't have players moaning about being away for 10 days without playing for a start! I think I he'd provide more of an adrenaline shot rather than a more cerebral improvement but the players would go onto the pitch on a mission. There'd be less of this self defeatist nonsense from some of the players too. The FAI would be shaken out of complacency. And there'd be such a massive falling out and ensuing civil war part 2 in a couple of years we'll be able to waste more hours yapping on the internet.