Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[ArdeeBhoy]

I guarantee you the majority of people think you're taking the **** and are talking about Brian.

Clearly they know even less about soccer than even the average ManU 'fan'/'barstooler', then...

[the doc]

Trap is irreplaceable, that's a fact!
Prior to the Euros everyone was slapping on the back, now because we lost to, two the the finalists and a Croatian side that were close to going all the way too. Everyone is now stabbing Mr Trapattoni in the back.

Shameful response! Not helped by the mindless hacks in the media.

So who could we get to do the job better? No one is the answer!

Time for everyone to shut up and put up!

No doubt it will be all doom and gloom as we have Germany next and most say we have no chance.

I actually think its a game we can and will win.

Never write the Irish off?

[Murfinator]

The hysteria is a bit ridiculous, there was immense pressure on the FAI to renew Trap's contract just...what was it, 6 months ago? Had the FAI let it expire and hired the fellow who had just got sacked from the worst team in the EPL I cannot imagine the ruckus there'd have been from supporters. They'd probably be picketing the FAI offices in such disgust.

Since then we got zero points as everyone expected in the Euros and won our first game in the World cup campaign doing respectably in friendlies in the meanwhile. If he were sacked right now it would be viewed as the most farcical dismissing in the history of international soccer, the world would be laughing at us.

[Razors left peg]

B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McDermott_(footballer))rian Mc Dermott has done excellent work at Reading.

Trap has been a fantastic manager in the past. He had a tough job sorting out the mess after Staunton and qualifying us for the Euros was fantastic. I think though that a lot of people would admit that we qualified inspite of some terrible performances through out the group stages, and had we been drawn against teams of the level of Estonia in other play offs we would have been at more major championships.

During the Euros there were so many interviews with players where they talked about the fantastic opposition they were up against and almost a case of "what did ya expect" when we were beaten. It was almost like it had been drilled into them that they were inferior before the tournament even started. Yes, we lost against the two finalists , and they were brilliant( especially the Spanish) but I dont believe that Croatia are that far ahead of us. Yet we were lacking the one think throughout the three games that has always been second nature to any Irish team, fight! Im not saying that the players didnt try, but to nowhere near the levels that we have become used to in the past and they looked like a beaten team from kick off.

The constant "miscommunications" have gotten beyond a joke at this point. This week we had Trap saying McClean was ill only for McClean to say he wasnt. After the Serbia game Trap said Long wasnt fit only for Long to say he was. These are only the latest two, we've had issues with Stokes, Best, Wilson, Foley, McCarthy,Clarke amongst others. Even though I know some of these were not the managers fault it happens too often for him not to take a lot of responibility.I dont think a lot of these issues with players would happen if he actually spend his weekends travelling to watch players play and meeting up with them for a chat after these games.

His selections are becoming increasingly erratic too. Last night seeing 3 different strikers playing on the wing when he had 2 premiership wingers sitting on the bench was the latest in a long line of frustrating selections. John O Shea said only recently that his days playing at right back are done because he doesnt have the pace but yet continues to be selected there instead of his much better position of Center half. His baffling selection of Paul Green during the euro has (rightly or wrongly on the players part) cost us Darron Gibson who is developing into an excellent player in a position we are short. These are just the most recent in a long line of frustrating decisons that have seen the likes of Cillian Sheridan, Liam Miller, Andy Keogh, Paul McShane and Calleb Folan selected regularly in Traps squads and even starting when better players have been left on the bench or out of the squad completely.

I think its pretty obvious that Trap doesnt trust the Irish players abilities to play football and so we end up with the long ball to the front that we seen time and again last night. Id love to know what he does on the training pitch. I have images of the defenders just having competitions to see who can kick the ball the longest. We are consistantly tactically inept and it really isnt good enough from a manager who is paid so highly.

Last night on RTE Brady nearly came out with the usual rubbish we heard from the Joe Duffy callers after Staunton was sacked... we dont have the players and who else would ya get.Theres lots of managers in the world game that would take the job. No body would have thought about Trap before we suddenly went and got him.The likes of Martinez, Lambert, and Rogers proved just last season in the Premiership that you dont have to have a team of superstars to be tactically good, play decent football and get good results.... Christ we have a small pool of players so the first job for any manager would be not to fall out with so many of them.

[Bungle]

B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_McDermott_(footballer))rian Mc Dermott has done excellent work at Reading.

Trap has been a fantastic manager in the past. He had a tough job sorting out the mess after Staunton and qualifying us for the Euros was fantastic. I think though that a lot of people would admit that we qualified inspite of some terrible performances through out the group stages, and had we been drawn against teams of the level of Estonia in other play offs we would have been at more major championships.

During the Euros there were so many interviews with players where they talked about the fantastic opposition they were up against and almost a case of "what did ya expect" when we were beaten. It was almost like it had been drilled into them that they were inferior before the tournament even started. Yes, we lost against the two finalists , and they were brilliant( especially the Spanish) but I dont believe that Croatia are that far ahead of us. Yet we were lacking the one think throughout the three games that has always been second nature to any Irish team, fight! Im not saying that the players didnt try, but to nowhere near the levels that we have become used to in the past and they looked like a beaten team from kick off.

The constant "miscommunications" have gotten beyond a joke at this point. This week we had Trap saying McClean was ill only for McClean to say he wasnt. After the Serbia game Trap said Long wasnt fit only for Long to say he was. These are only the latest two, we've had issues with Stokes, Best, Wilson, Foley, McCarthy,Clarke amongst others. Even though I know some of these were not the managers fault it happens too often for him not to take a lot of responibility.I dont think a lot of these issues with players would happen if he actually spend his weekends travelling to watch players play and meeting up with them for a chat after these games.

His selections are becoming increasingly erratic too. Last night seeing 3 different strikers playing on the wing when he had 2 premiership wingers sitting on the bench was the latest in a long line of frustrating selections. John O Shea said only recently that his days playing at right back are done because he doesnt have the pace but yet continues to be selected there instead of his much better position of Center half. His baffling selection of Paul Green during the euro has (rightly or wrongly on the players part) cost us Darron Gibson who is developing into an excellent player in a position we are short. These are just the most recent in a long line of frustrating decisons that have seen the likes of Cillian Sheridan, Liam Miller, Andy Keogh, Paul McShane and Calleb Folan selected regularly in Traps squads and even starting when better players have been left on the bench or out of the squad completely.

I think its pretty obvious that Trap doesnt trust the Irish players abilities to play football and so we end up with the long ball to the front that we seen time and again last night. Id love to know what he does on the training pitch. I have images of the defenders just having competitions to see who can kick the ball the longest. We are consistantly tactically inept and it really isnt good enough from a manager who is paid so highly.

Last night on RTE Brady nearly came out with the usual rubbish we heard from the Joe Duffy callers after Staunton was sacked... we dont have the players and who else would ya get.Theres lots of managers in the world game that would take the job. No body would have thought about Trap before we suddenly went and got him.The likes of Martinez, Lambert, and Rogers proved just last season in the Premiership that you dont have to have a team of superstars to be tactically good, play decent football and get good results.... Christ we have a small pool of players so the first job for any manager would be not to fall out with so many of them.

Great post. Have to say I agree with all of that.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yes, but no chance McDermott will take the Irish job at this stage. He'd be looking for another 5-10 years in club management first surely...

[Razors left peg]

Yes, but no chance McDermott will take the Irish job at this stage. He'd be looking for another 5-10 years in club management first surely...

My point was really that we can look outside of McCarthy, Keane or O'Leary for options.

[Murfinator]

No. But your just a troll.

What day shall I expect his dismissal if you're so adamant he won't be here next month. I don't want to miss the news story when it breaks.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Another take.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/36-wsc-daily-discussion/708443-trapattoni-needs-to-win-back-the-ireland-fans

[BonnieShels]

I said it before and say it again, His Royal Highness Lord Anthony O'Reilly, the answer to all Ireland's ills. He was a young rugby star don't you know. He'd have INM and RTE eating out of his toe cracks (jam and all) and he'd quickly move to appoint Eoghan Harris as media relations officer (with a focus on RTE, since they rejected him), Richard Sadlier as chief footstool (and player masseur) and Laughing Bill as chief toadstool (and junior media relations intern). Okay, with the new Indo editor it might be a bit tricky, but Neon Dion will make sure the new regime get top billing, so too with Dan the Man, while over in the Heddild the "inspired" decision by HRH to reside on the mainland means he can take in all the Premiership matches he needs, as well as 6 Nations and Autumn internationals. Gotta love Ireland. Can't way for Joooooeeee Duffy! on Monday.

What in the name of divine Jesus are you on about?

[tricky_colour]

These two are looking for a new job apparently.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Oztv_80jSR8/UBSHmnJEd-I/AAAAAAAAAGI/uGvTbRJ5wDc/s1600/muppets.jpg

[shakermaker1982]

Rafa Benitez?

[Colbert Report]

Rafa Benitez?

Why would he even consider taking the job?

[Stuttgart88]

A conservative eccentric manager is hardly what we need to replace a conservative eccentric manager.

Personally, whenever the time comes to replace our manager I'd like an Irishman. I know it's naive but I think international football should be about one country's football culture versus another's. It just feels more appropriate to me.

[Murfinator]

A conservative eccentric manager is hardly what we need to replace a conservative eccentric manager.

Personally, whenever the time comes to replace our manager I'd like an Irishman. I know it's naive but I think international football should be about one country's football culture versus another's. It just feels more appropriate to me.

What football culture? We have no players who play at home and half our squad weren't even born here. Our squad is a patchy representation of the country at best. We're in no position for having ideological requirements from our manager.

[backstothewall]

I'm not ready to call time on Trap yet, but if he were to go for whatever reason Benitez would be the last person I would want anywhere near our national team.

[Spudulika]

What in the name of divine Jesus are you on about?

BS - I should have written wait not way (for Joe Duffy).

You know how it is, INM have been leading the charge against Trap since the battle heated up between the O'Reillys and O'Brien, the reporters have been nodding dogs for their master and it's just because more ridiculous.

[shakermaker1982]

The reason I mentioned Benitez is that he is available. Decent track record but would mean the end of Keane's international career!

McCarthy, O'Leary & Tardelli with Brady are the other options. The Irish managers in the PL like Hughton & McDermott are unlikely to be tempted just yet. Struggling to think of anybody else.

[Stuttgart88]

I know there's a thread on Pat Walker here from the post-Stan search days, but a couple of lads from this forum got one of the tabloids to run a feature on him in an attempt to get the holy trinity to interview him. I've been searching for that article but can't find it. It wasn't a link, rather a picture file scanned from the article. If anyone can dig it up I'd be grateful. I've tried the advanced search but got nothing. It might be buried in a 100 page "who next?" thread.

I'm not saying he's the answer to our prayers, it's more for my own personal research. Thanks.

[Stuttgart88]

Lose the predictive text function spud :)

[fionnsci]

A conservative eccentric manager is hardly what we need to replace a conservative eccentric manager.

Personally, whenever the time comes to replace our manager I'd like an Irishman. I know it's naive but I think international football should be about one country's football culture versus another's. It just feels more appropriate to me.

Our footballing culture would involve a hell of a lot more handballs.

[Stuttgart88]

What football culture?.of course we have a football culture, don't be daft. Just because it's disjointed and imbalanced and not as in line with best practice as it could be doesn't mean we don't have one. I happen to think that a country's national teams should be indicative of the way football is organised in a country. Ours are, it's just not a very good indictment.

[ped_ped]

We have a football culture, but there is a total disconnect between international and domestic football and it shows. As long as the general public and the head honchos see overseas players and managers as the bedrock of "Irish" football then the actually footballing culture of the League of Ireland will never be seen.

[Deckydee]

Michael O'Neill

[BonnieShels]

Lose the predictive text function spud :)

And stop posting without wearing your tinfoil hat.

[BonnieShels]

Michael O'Neill

Poaching players is bad enough but could we get away with poaching their manager?

[Spudulika]

And stop posting without wearing your tinfoil hat.

Hey it keeps me warm, and just because I believe that our soccer journo's share the same strand of moral courage, doesn't mean there's a conspiracy :-) And with due respect to the lad, Richie S. is not a good pundit, if he now covers the sky league show, lovely, much easier to watch MNS and LOI without him.

[Crosby87]

What about Pia Sundhage, unless you are all fearful of a woman in power.

[mark12345]

Problem with an Irish manager is no one would respect him (I'm talking about the fans and the media). Sounds crazy I know but we just don't respect our own. Mick and Jack got way more respect than Stan, Brian Kerr, John Giles, Eoin Hand.

Martin O'Neill is about the only one who'd command respect.

Bigger problem however is to get our youngsters playing football properly and steer them away from England. Steer them to mainland European countries where they actually play the game known as football. We'll be singing the same old song in fifty years if we don't.

[BonnieShels]

Problem with an Irish manager is no one would respect him (I'm talking about the fans and the media). Sounds crazy I know but we just don't respect our own. Mick and Jack got way more respect than Stan, Brian Kerr, John Giles, Eoin Hand.

Martin O'Neill is about the only one who'd command respect.

Bigger problem however is to get our youngsters playing football properly and steer them away from England. Steer them to mainland European countries where they actually play the game known as football. We'll be singing the same old song in fifty years if we don't.

Mick is one of our own. Tut tut tut!

You're right though on the "bigger" problem.

[Charlie Darwin]

BS - I should have written wait not way (for Joe Duffy).

You know how it is, INM have been leading the charge against Trap since the battle heated up between the O'Reillys and O'Brien, the reporters have been nodding dogs for their master and it's just because more ridiculous.
Bit simplistic. There's no real anti-DOB culture in the sports pages at the Indo. There is an anti-Trap culture in general among media cohorts, and there is a very cosy hive mind that involves the more prominent sports journalists at all media outlets in this country.

[bennocelt]

Mick is one of our own. Tut tut tut!

You're right though on the "bigger" problem.

I think our Roy had something to say about that!:D

[peadar1987]

I think our Roy had something to say about that!:D

Mick never walked out on his nation in favour of his ego, but that's another story.

[Bungle]

I see Trap has publicly layed in to James McClean saying that he's lucky to be in the team and openly letting us all know that he had to give a grovelling apology to the rest of the team. I really think this is very poor management. Yes McClean should have to apologise to his team and should be made publicly apologise as he has done, but I don't think that the rest of us need to be made aware of what goes on behind closed doors.

It's very clear to me that there are a core of decent players in the Irish set-up who will get on with doing whatever Trap asks of them (I would include Robbie, Andrews and Dunney in this category) because they have more of the traditional attitude to international football and were brought up to get on with the job at hand, even if they don't agree with things. It's the classic Irish thing of keeping the head down and not rocking the boat. I both laud them for their love of the green shirt, while wishing that they would try and encourage change (there were hints from Duffer before he retired about him being very excited by McClean which seemed to indicate that he wanted him to get a good chance). It is the very thing that Keane despised - I part agreed with him as positive change won't occur, if our most influential players go along with the flow.

Then there are the good game lads (as Gilesy would say!!) like McShane, Whelan and Ward, who genuinely love playing for their country. However, they are all mediocre players who should not be getting their game. They will hardly rock the boat.

Then there are the batch of players who offer potential. This group includes Coleman, McClean, Clark, Gibson, Hoolahan, McCarthy and Wilson. All players that have shown they can cut it at the highest level and all with the exception of Wes, young lads who could be very important players for us over the next 8-10 years. Trap's attitude to them appears totally indifferent and he almost wants them to falter when he gives them a chance, as much as to say "sure didn't I tell ye that they aren't ready". The more decent lads like Coleman and McCarthy will keep their heads down and work their way in to the team, even if they know and we all know they should have been there long before. The more arrogant ones like Gibson will behave the way he did over the past few weeks (disgracefully) by eventually walking out of the team. Bottom line is that if he had a manager that gave him trust and support and played him ahead of players that he is clearly better then, this incident would not have occurred.

We are a mid-table type international team with a decent batch of players to choose from. We are not Spain, but then again we aren't Lithuania, let alone a Moldova. However, Europe is so competitive as a continent, that if we are to be in the running to qualify for tournaments, then we can hardly be going about it, by alienating our best young talents. Trap is failing us badly in this regard.

[backstothewall]

If Trap does end up going I'd love to see us follow the same approach again and bring in a respected coach from Europe who has no experience of the English leagues, and no pre-conceptions etc. Always dangerous to generalise about managers based on their nationalities (even if Trap is the most stereotypically Italian manager ever), but a German could be good. Good balance between technique and organisation. Someone like Ralf Rangnick maybe.

[Bungle]

If Trap does end up going I'd love to see us follow the same approach again and bring in a respected coach from Europe who has no experience of the English leagues, and no pre-conceptions etc. Always dangerous to generalise about managers based on their nationalities (even if Trap is the most stereotypically Italian manager ever), but a German could be good. Good balance between technique and organisation. Someone like Ralf Rangnick maybe.

To be fair to Trap, with our seeding improvement, the job is a hell of a lot more appealing to good managers, then what it was when he inherited it. I think that we have a potentially good batch of players coming through that is also appealing.

I would love a good international manager like Rangnick, who first and foremost has people skills!! I would be less sure of the FAI though having the foresight that some posters on here have and I think it will be the same 3-4 fellas in the running, with a Jewell or Burley type thrown in for good measure.

Given that our youth teams would appear to have adopted the Dutch approach, then maybe a manager from there could be an option also.

[Spudulika]

CD - you're right on the hive mind, I even heard Matt Cooper drivel on, though in fairness Mark Lawrenson cut him down with facts rather than rhetoric. I'm not convinced about the lack of anti-DOB agenda in the INM sports pages, they have loved sticking the knife into JD, and references about salary and payments (for Trap) relate directly to DOB, so in this regard I find a common thread running through the "empure" that just doesn't feel right.

I'd get Felix Magath in for Ireland, Rangnick might be a little too blunt and wouldn't leave club football for a while. I wouldn't appoint a Dutch coach as they could blow up too easy. Regardless, no matter who comes in they'll be slated as quickly as possible. Stan was being lauded for his first outing win (and rightly so) against Sweden, and then destroyed, especially for the water bottle incident. Trap wasn't Roy Keane so Dunphy went for him, and while half the salary was being met by DOB, the INM mob were biding their time.

It disgusted me how many were hoping Ireland would lose to get rid of the manager. We're truly more english than the english.

[shakermaker1982]

Quite a few of the lads in the pub on Friday were gutted when we got that equaliser. Very strange to see.

[BonnieShels]

There was a gobsheen beside me in the pub talking bawlls hoping we would lose. Even at the lowest ebb (v San Marino, v Cyprus) I would never wish for us to lose.

Barstoolers!!!

[Stuttgart88]

Does actually jumping onto a barstool in a half-empty pub, jumping up and down like a looney at much danger to my personal health and drawing strange looks from after-work drinkers charactarise me as a barstooler?

[Murfinator]

Quite a few of the lads in the pub on Friday were gutted when we got that equaliser. Very strange to see.


There was a gobsheen beside me in the pub talking bawlls hoping we would lose. Even at the lowest ebb (v San Marino, v Cyprus) I would never wish for us to lose.

Barstoolers!!!

Best supporters in the world (tm).

Its the joke that never stops giving.

[Stuttgart88]

Best supporters in the world (tm).

Its the joke that never stops giving.Or the mantra that keeps being brought up by WUMs who know full well that the supporters don't think that of themselves. The term is only used by those looking for a stick to beat the fans with.

[osarusan]

Have the posters slating people for not being happy at the Irish comeback considered the possibility that these fans genuinely believe that Trapattoni is not doing a good enough job and the team are heading in the wrong direction, and the best way for this Irish team to turn a corner would be for him to not be the manager anymore? In which case, a loss to Kazakhstan might bring about the desired change faster.

[pineapple stu]

Or the mantra that keeps being brought up by WUMs who know full well that the supporters don't think that of themselves. The term is only used by those looking for a stick to beat the fans with.
Or even the notion that there are lots of Ireland fans, and some can be idiots while the majority are hugely popular abroad.

[Stuttgart88]

Have the posters slating people for not being happy at the Irish comeback considered the possibility that these fans genuinely believe that Trapattoni is not doing a good enough job and the team are heading in the wrong direction, and the best way for this Irish team to turn a corner would be for him to not be the manager anymore? In which case, a loss to Kazakhstan might bring about the desired change faster.
I don't think Trap is doing a good enough job yet I was nearly doing cartwheels. Why would anyone want a campaign to suffer what would practically be a fatal slip-up just so case to discard the manager would be strengthened, especially when he wouldn't have left anyway?

[Charlie Darwin]

Have the posters slating people for not being happy at the Irish comeback considered the possibility that these fans genuinely believe that Trapattoni is not doing a good enough job and the team are heading in the wrong direction, and the best way for this Irish team to turn a corner would be for him to not be the manager anymore? In which case, a loss to Kazakhstan might bring about the desired change faster.
If you applied this logic to every match, we could beat Germany and Sweden and people would still be hoping for us to lose against Austria. And I guarantee that if we did there would still be people calling for Trap's head.


CD - you're right on the hive mind, I even heard Matt Cooper drivel on, though in fairness Mark Lawrenson cut him down with facts rather than rhetoric. I'm not convinced about the lack of anti-DOB agenda in the INM sports pages, they have loved sticking the knife into JD, and references about salary and payments (for Trap) relate directly to DOB, so in this regard I find a common thread running through the "empure" that just doesn't feel right.
I'd seperate the anti-JD/"corporate" angle from the footballing arguments against Trap. In fact, though, I think both are kind of generic arguments that all newspapers and media outlets broadly share.

[osarusan]

I don't think Trap is doing a good enough job yet I was nearly doing cartwheels.
Maybe they think he's doing a worse job still.


Why would anyone want a campaign to suffer what would practically be a fatal slip-up just so case to discard the manager would be strengthened?
Because they think that the chances of qualification are very very slim anyway, and it's better to build for the future as soon as possible?

I don't know these people or their motivations, but I think it's unfair to dismiss anybody wanting the team to lose for these possible reasons as an idiot, gobsheens, etc.


If you applied this logic to every match, we could beat Germany and Sweden and people would still be hoping for us to lose against Austria. And I guarantee that if we did there would still be people calling for Trap's head.


I can't imagine too many fans not seeing this as evidence that the team has turned a corner.

[Charlie Darwin]

I can't imagine too many fans not seeing this as evidence that the team has turned a corner.
Really?

[Noelys Guitar]

In an Irish context no manager has surivived for long or his teams results improved once the majority of the fans have turned against him. And to be honest (other than possibily Mick McCarthy) all deserved to go when they did. IMO most Irish football supporters are not dummies and are fairly loyal to the management and players. But if they see Plan A is not working and all that is offered is Plan A over and over again then they are going to turn on you.

[BonnieShels]

Does actually jumping onto a barstool in a half-empty pub, jumping up and down like a looney at much danger to my personal health and drawing strange looks from after-work drinkers charactarise me as a barstooler?

No. Why I even answered this I dunno... :P

Now if you don't make it to Fulham tomorrow I may re-consider.