Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[jbyrne]

Should have never sacked him, the process of sacking him and replacing him with Stan put our team back many years. This is why a lot of people are worried about the prospect of Trap being sacked under these circumstances, our public are notorious for putting pressure on for sacking managers and later regretting it.
In retrospect most reasonable fans would agree that in the past 20 years Stan was the only one who deserved to be sacked and whose successor was a significant improvement.

Agree with this although Jack needed to go when he did. Even the most successful management tenures become stale after a while. Not sure Jack was sacked anyway, was he?

Replacing Kerr with Stan was mind boggling. My biggest reget over that issue was not putting large amounts on stan when I got a good tip from a reliable source it would definately be him about three months before he was appointed. Just couldnt give it any credance when i was told!

[tetsujin1979]

Harry wants the job!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4593590/Harry-Redknapp-wants-Republic-of-Ireland-job.html


i cant see this, id say harry is waiting for a job to come up in the PL before hed return to management. id say anything linking harry to this job is pure speculation.

posted about this in the other thread, it's hard to lend any credibility to the sun newspaper linking sun columnist Harry Redknapp to any position, available or not.

[Straightstory]

Should have never sacked him, the process of sacking him and replacing him with Stan put our team back many years. This is why a lot of people are worried about the prospect of Trap being sacked under these circumstances, our public are notorious for putting pressure on for sacking managers and later regretting it.
In retrospect most reasonable fans would agree that in the past 20 years Stan was the only one who deserved to be sacked and whose successor was a significant improvement.
Don't think I've ever agreed more with a post on here. Good points all round.

[Over the post]

Sorry if someone has suggested this already, but Don José Ramón Sandoval, miracle worker with Rayo Vallecano over the last couple of seasons, is available.
He has a track record of of moulding teams that are more than the sum of their parts and playing attractive football to boot. Great motivator although international management is obviously a different kettle of fish.
Communication could be a problem as I doubt he speaks English.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Kerr would have been lucky to have had his contract extended just based on merit.

Dull, listless performances when it counted. Obstinate selections and omissions (Dunne & Steven Reid were often overlooked). Failure to kill off games that were virtually won. Lack of conviction.

He worked a lot harder than Trap but was guilty of several similar errors and it seemed that he had lost the dressing room. Whether this was his fault or not, when that happens it's impossible to stay on. Kerr was brilliant in another role for the FAI but I don't think he did a particularly good job for the senior team.

I also think that once the meeja turn against you it's hard to stay on. It creates a poisonous negative attitude to the set-up and this affects the team. I know it's "trial by media" and it's not right, but it's how it is.

I think he was unlucky on occasion and it's a shame that his bridges have been burnt with the FAI. We need people like him at a senior level in our game.

He'd be an ideal guy to be in charge of all footballing operations in Ireland - development, league structures, joining the pyramid and ultimately being the guy that the senior team manager and all other team managers are accountable to.

The CEO should be in charge of admin, operations, finance and government / UEFA / FIFA relations. That's how I'd like to see it anyway.

[DannyInvincible]

I've yet to post properly on the speculation relating to Trap's future. To be honest, I'm generally bemused and just not sure what the solution is. It does appear that some sort of fix is needed though, because there does appear to be something wrong. We play very uninspiring football and don't appear to be going forward at all. We're leaking goals in a way we didn't earlier in Trap's tenure. We'll really know where we stand after we've played Sweden and Austria in a few months, but might it be too late by that point if things go pear-shaped?

I find myself disheartened and somewhat disillusioned, but not solely or specifically with Trap; the problem cuts much deeper than who's in charge of the senior team or the system to which the manager happens to adhere. You can chop and change managers all you like, but unless you have a proper developmental structure/pyramid in place - as has been mentioned in previous posts - you're not going to go far, no matter what system a manager wishes to employ. We've arrived on a plateau or hit a glass ceiling, if you will. Europe's elite sides have moved on a level and left us trailing. Changing our manager can't do anything about that.

[jbyrne]

I find myself disheartened and somewhat disillusioned, but not solely or specifically with Trap; the problem cuts much deeper than who's in charge of the senior team or the system to which the manager happens to adhere. You can chop and change managers all you like, but unless you have a proper developmental structure/pyramid in place - as has been mentioned in previous posts - you're not going to go far, no matter what system a manager wishes to employ. We've arrived on a plateau or hit a glass ceiling, if you will. Europe's elite sides have moved on a level and left us trailing. Changing our manager can't do anything about that.

this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now

[Duggie]

this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now

no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.

[DannyInvincible]

this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now

Were Duffer and Keane strictly products of an Irish footballing structure though or did we just get lucky, if you will (one or two gems will always pop up every once in a while), with English clubs doing the rest of the work for us? Feeding off the scraps of English football academies and over-relying on FIFA's eligibility rules in securing the allegiance of players for whom playing for Ireland is a secondary option is not an ideal way to continue "producing" talent.

[ifk101]

Were Duffer and Keane strictly products of an Irish footballing structure though or did we just get lucky

Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.

[Stuttgart88]

no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.

My guess is also that we have produced a few players with enough ability and technical skill by age 15 over the last 10 years or so but they haven't been able to get the leg up they need at a big club because their scouting network and academies are now genuinely global. Without this break, a lot of promise can go unfulfilled. I don't fully buy into the theory that if you have the talent you'll find your level. I think a more accurate proposition is that if you have the talent, the support network, the dedication and the right platform you'll find your best level, not to mention needing a bit of luck.

I don't think Ireland has found an answer to this problem. Even in the case of Doyle and Long we were lucky they went to a progressive club.

Of course it could simply be that the big clubs look at our 14 year-olds and think they're not good enough. Other things being equal you'd probably pick an Irish kid over a south american kid simply because it's less of an acclimatisation risk.

The Airticity League has had an OK track record in being a stepping-stone league in recent years, but I think it needs work to make it better.

[Charlie Darwin]

Crumlin got at least one solidarity payment in respect of Keane's transfers.

[Stuttgart88]

Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.I've often felt that we're de facto part of the British pyramid system, but without the financial solidarity mechanisms that transfer income downstream.


Crumlin got at least one solidarity payment in respect of Keane's transfers.

But transfer fees between GB and Ireland are lower than transfer fees intra-GB (or intra-England anyway).

[jbyrne]

Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.

both keane and duffs schoolboy clubs benefited financially from their transfers over the years


no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.

truth in this ok. but surely players we produced before foreign imports really took over the EPL like mcgrath, roy keane and others would get into a top 4 EPL team even in todays world?

[Stuttgart88]

Don't underestimate the murky world of player agents and bungs. Getting kids into the EPL and other leagues is a filthy business with all kinds of spivs and crooks involved.

[Bungle]

I would watch quite alot of schoolboy football. I would say that the talent we are producing is to a reasonably decent standard (although much poorer than it was during the golden era of Kerr). Clubs like St Kevin's and Crumlin are a breath of fresh air. However, it is sad that the standard of some clubs like Home Farm has greatly diminished.

A major concern that I would have would be that our youths play in big goals with 11 vs 11. It is totally baffling that this has not been addressed. In the past, we produced a very consistent flow of technically brilliant players, who played in similar situations. You could say what has changed? Why aren't we producing a Giles, a Whelan or Brady anymore? In my opinion, the answer is that street football is now practically non-existent. Kids learned the type of tougness, instinctiveness and skill that often cannot be taught in academies from a young age. However, at least in the continental countries, they teach the kids properly and develop a skills set with them that hones similiar skills to street football, even if street football is becoming less common in Germany or Spain these days also.

[osarusan]

To answer the question in the original post, I'd replace him with somebody who is willing to fulfill his obligations properly.

As I see it, any national team manager's role is to ensure that he extracts the absolute maximum from the resources available to him and that the tactics selected for each game are those most likely to bring about a positive result.

In the first case, I don't think Trapattoni has done enough experimentation with different players, and virtually no experimentation at all with different systems, in order to determine whether the defensive system we play is actually the most effective system with the resources available to us. The tactics adopted after the Stan fiasco were right for the period of stabilisation and recovery, but they haven't changed much if at all.

It's one thing to adopt a defensive approach in 2008, but there hasn't been any real attempt by Trapattoni since then to experiment with a more attacking approach or to develop a system which places greater emphasis on keeping the ball. It may be the case that the system we use now is the most effective available to us, but I would say that, because of the lack of experimentation, we really don't know if that is the case, but after 4 years in the job, there should be very little doubt as to what our most effective system is. Not enough consideration, in my opinion, has been given to players who have come through in the mean time, and their potential value to the side. That isn't good enough.

Secondly, I don't think that enough attention has been paid to developing tactics for each game and each opponent. We have one style and one style only, and we play that way whether we're away to the top teams or at home to the crap teams. Trap admitted during the Euros that he had no plan B - that should be absolutely unacceptable at Euro finals level. I don't know how much preparation Trap puts into each game, but it is very frustrating to hear him say that he lies awake at night thinking about how he can improve the Irish team, and yet the conclusion he come to virtually every time is the same old plan that sees us give up possession incredibly easily and use the ball woefully when we have it. I think he could do a lot more to prepare the team in terms of who the opponents are, and what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Having said all that, even though I thought he should have gone after the Euros, I don't think that the Germany result is cause for sacking hime. If we'd only been comfortably outplayed and lost 3-0, we'd be in much the same position as we are now, but without the kneejerk reactions. He deserves until after the first games versus Sweden and Austria.

[tetsujin1979]

A major concern that I would have would be that our youths play in big goals with 11 vs 11. It is totally baffling that this has not been addressed. In the past, we produced a very consistent flow of technically brilliant players, who played in similar situations. You could say what has changed? Why aren't we producing a Giles, a Whelan or Brady anymore? In my opinion, the answer is that street football is now practically non-existent. Kids learned the type of tougness, instinctiveness and skill that often cannot be taught in academies from a young age. However, at least in the continental countries, they teach the kids properly and develop a skills set with them that hones similiar skills to street football, even if street football is becoming less common in Germany or Spain these days also.
Think I read somewhere that DDSL will be addressing this from next year?

[Metrostars]

I wouldn't trust Harry one bit. The first time a team like Liverpool comes calling looking for a manager he'd be off.

[geysir]

I like the points Osarusan expressed but do you really expect Trap to alter his attitude to our players and his tactics by the time we meet Sweden and Austria?
I thought if Trap had put his mind to changing things after the Euros (as he sorta said he would or could), he would apply himself doggedly to the task, 100% sincerely. Not that we would be be a pass or die team but at least a work in progress.
Somebody remarked somewhere that Kazakhstan (after getting beaten by Austria) are not as good as we thought they were, but I say wait until they meet us in Dublin, we will make them look very good.
I use to think that it must be that our players were not technically competent but now I know that's a load of bollíx. Not that they are brilliant ball players but with a decent intl coach they have enough ability to play football and achieve results. Intl football has changed a lot in the last 6 years, but that change did not happen 6 years ago and stop changing, it has continued to change and changed a lot since since Trap took over.

[SkStu]

I wouldn't trust Harry one bit. The first time a team like Liverpool comes calling looking for a manager he'd be off.

it would actually be nice for a change to have a manager leave instead of being run out of town...

[OwlsFan]

Not Roy Hodgson anyway because apparently England can't pass the ball either despite their array of stars playing for the top teams:

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/report_why-can-t-england-keep-the-ball_1754070

[Razors left peg]

I have heard a lot in the last week or so about how being an International manager is pretty much a part time job. This might be a bit naive of me but instead of saying who we want for next Ireland manager maybe we should focus on what we want from the man in charge.

Trapattoni has now been told he needs to attend more games in England to watch players, but I would love to see the International manager as head of the the association, in the sense that everything feeds down and up from the underage teams to him. Going to see Premiership games should be a given, but he should be also regularly meeting with the underage coaches and going to underage games so that when players are developed and are ready for the International team they are used to the style of football, tactics and formations etc.

I know we have a Technical Director( whos name I cant rememeber at moment) in the FAI, but I wonder has Trap even met with him at any stage to discuss Irish football.

Id love for our manager to be passionate enough about Irish football so that he would fight to try bring our national league out of the dark ages. I dont mean he should just have a few token call ups to the squad from players in the league, but he should be a focal point that people could rally around to bring real change.

I know Im probably looking for an imaginary superman here.... but those are just a few points to show that the International manager should hardly have enough hours in the day to do his job properly rather than a soft part time job for retirement.

[Stuttgart88]

John O'Brien was kind of having a pop at Trap today for not being on top of all things Irish football related. But he can only do what he's being told to do so as far as I'm concerned he should run the senior side and that's about it. Now that can easily be extended to interacting with the u21 and u19 managers and as far as I'm aware there is some channel of communication there.

I sad it last week, but this overlaps with the governance structure of the FAI. In an ideal world a Brian Kerr type figure would be chief football officer, reporting to a CEO who reports to a board. The CEO's role should be largely covering the administrative matters and uefa arselicking. Instead everything is done by committee which whilst very democratic might lead to lots of compromises or fudges. The chief football officer would be responsible for teams, player development structures, coaching development and leagues.

I think it's too big an ask to expect a senior manager to have oversight over all aspects of the game, like in other countries, especially in the absence of any outstanding candidates.

[Crosby87]

No time like now to start the debate. ;)
Seriously, things are not as bleak as some on here think. Who wants to go to Brazil anyway? If you want to get robbed, raped and shot you can just go to Syria instead for a lot cheaper.

[boovidge]

Martin O'Neill is currently favourite and Eamon Dunphy is 250-1. There are some others inbetween.

[Bungle]

I would like Mick back. First and foremost, he knows our players. Secondly and most importantly, he will generate a good spirit in the camp and he has a good ability with younger players. He tried to play good football with us as well. Maybe, I'm looking back with rose tinted glasses, but I love the bloke.

[Colbert Report]

I love how people give Mick credit for playing "good football". I'm not trying to start a Mick/Roy thing here, but the fact is that Roy Keane was capable of doing the work of two players in the midfield, giving Mick the license for a more attacking system. If Trap had Roy Keane in his prime since he took over, we wouldn't have been watching a Whelan/Andrews holding midfield partnership and long balls up the pitch for the past five years.

[geysir]

Mick has a job and likely to have one next season at the same club. There is no way (little or no chance) that a manager who has a contract with an epl or championship club, will leave that job for a stint at international management with a mid ranking team like us.
The populist chat is going to be about MON as he's 'available' and probably finished with managing a team in the top english division. The FAI probably will put in an interim manager if needed until they make up their minds.

[harry crumb]

We need to look closer to home.

[dong]

Pat Fenlon with Paul Cook as assistant.
Players are pretty cat anyways, no point wasting money when you haven't a pot to pee in.
Start ploughing some cash into coaching facilities and methods for youngsters.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha...
Yeah right.

[dong]

Yeah, or Stephen Kenny.

[dong]

Or Roddy maybe?

[the doc]

Mad Mick will be next in line should Mr Trapattoni decide to leave.
I wouldn't bet againt a new contract for Mr Trapattoni either.

[brine3]

Co Adriaanse has gone into semi-retirement. Wouldn't cost anything in terms of buying out a contract. Likes to use passing football to make a team more than the sum of its parts. He got Willem II into the Champions League. Willem who? Exactly. Got AZ Alkmaar to the UEFA Cup semi-final. Was in charge of the Ajax youth academy before all that.

[Lionel Ritchie]

David O'Leary -needs a gig, holds none of the cards, hasn't so much as a non-league team looking for him. The FAI could nearly make HIM pay THEM to let him do the job. He'll be fine.

Fuse lit. taking cover.

[Stuttgart88]

Doesn't Mick have a release clause in his Ipswich contract if the Ireland job came up? Or was that just an urban myth, in rural Suffolk?

[Irish_Praha]

what about Steve Mcclaren he has international experience?
:D;)

[Nagger]

Guus Hiddink and Renee Meulensteen

[the doc]

Doesn't Mick have a release clause in his Ipswich contract if the Ireland job came up?

Yes!!!!!!

[Eminence Grise]

To be honest, in the rush to get shut of Trap (who has outstayed his welcome) I think we’re overlooking an even more important appointment.

A team psychologist.

Getting the team psychology right is as important as formation and tactics, I think. The team has a brittleness that creates fear. Going a goal up, it seems, exacerbates that fear. It’s almost as if, having endured Trap running them down for the last few years, players capable of playing top flight football in all but a handful of European leagues (and some with hundreds of appearances and medals), lose all sense of collective confidence when togging out for Ireland.

The ‘in Trap we still must trust’ baloney feels like nothing so much as Stockholm Syndrome or the abused spouse who takes the blame because their partner must be right. If that kind of attitude is prevalent in the squad, it needs to be addressed. Sharpish.

[mark12345]

I love how people give Mick credit for playing "good football". I'm not trying to start a Mick/Roy thing here, but the fact is that Roy Keane was capable of doing the work of two players in the midfield, giving Mick the license for a more attacking system. If Trap had Roy Keane in his prime since he took over, we wouldn't have been watching a Whelan/Andrews holding midfield partnership and long balls up the pitch for the past five years.

Love Mick to death. He has done a lot for Irish football. But too many memories of us playing the long ball doesn't bode well for a future with him as manager.

I've seen Martin O'Neill mentioned here. Great choice. I've also seen Roy Keane's name mentioned here. Could the two work together? Two Brian Clough disciples. What a team we would have. If that didn't work out I would like to see Robbie come back from America and work with Tardelli.

[Closed Account 2]

Push the boat out and get Hiddink in. Although I'm not sure he'd accept.

[shakermaker1982]

Has Hiddink 'retired' or would he be tempted with one more pay day? (Probably doesn't need it to be fair).

[Crosby87]

When i look at what Klinsmann has done with the US team, having a mediocre bunch playing well with an interchangeable system, where he has made it a privilege to play....i keep thinking we should hire a German. I'm not saying the US is going to go win the World Cup but he has them primed to make some serious noise. Someone needs to have the players 100% buying in.....

[pineapple stu]

This is the US who lost 3-1 to Costa Rica last night?

Sounds just what we need.

Naturally, all Germans are the same, too.

[IsMiseSean]

Does anyone think MON would be more of the same? Celtic, Villa & Sunderland didn't exactly play free flowing football under him.

[mark12345]

This is the US who lost 3-1 to Costa Rica last night?

Sounds just what we need.

Naturally, all Germans are the same, too.

Yes, this is the same US team that lost 3-1 to Costa Rica last night. A Costa Rican team, I might add, that would have put the same three goals and arguably one or two more past Ireland in the same situation.

Klinsmann has done a good job with the US and they'll be at the World Cup and we won't. Keep thinking those superiority thoughts when you compare Ireland and the US - they're badly misguided. The US is a better team than Ireland right now and will only get better. Meanwhile we're going in the opposite direction.

Something to do with playing proper on the deck football (rather than hoof ball) I believe, but I could be wrong.

And while we're at it, if we'relooking for a place for young Irish talent to go instead of England (because our youngsters are either unwilling or unable to go to a country which doesn't speak English), let our lads go to the US. The standard is improving all the time in the US and is technically quite superior to the Championship in England.

[The Fly]

Does anyone think MON would be more of the same? Celtic, Villa & Sunderland didn't exactly play free flowing football under him.

I know that comment is half in jest, but we are never going to play free flowing football. We have no history in that regard and we don't have the players to engineer that style of play. I just hope for something more constructive and less predictable going forward. Despite his limitations as a club manager, I think O'Neill would be well suited to international football at this stage.