Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[shakermaker1982]

Farewell Trap.

I liked your personality and passion for the game but must admit your substitutions, obsession with playing Whelan, constant long ball tactics with 2 midgets up front and falling out with Andy Reid annoyed the hell out of me.

[Kingdom]

He's gone. Just announced.

The more I think about O'Neill the less I fancy the idea though someone from the Sunday World is on RTE (so it must be true!) is saying he was approached last week.

Also O'Neill would the same age starting the job that Jack Charlton was when he was told they wouldn't be paying his retainer any more because he the game had outgrown him.

I've mentioned O'Leary before and I'm the only person I know who doesn't think it'd be a bad idea (unless anyone wants to pipe up) but he's a bit younger and I think he'd do just fine.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be against the idea of O'Leary.

[BonnieShels]

Now that he's gona I have this sickening feeling of who we might actually get. Eugh! :(

[Dermotron]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be against the idea of O'Leary.

Me neither. Right age profile.



Getting a youthful manager is double edged. Does well, he'll only last a campaign at most and the cycle begins again



O'Neill might be more suited to international management than club management nowadays. I'd imagine motivational speeches wear thin hearing them week in week out but could ideal for the format of international football. We play better with heart and desire than any other style and it also appeals to the public more imo so he could be the best man for the job.


Don't mind so much who gets the job once its the end of playing for 10 minutes and then retreating for following 80 minutes.

[geysir]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be against the idea of O'Leary.
What's your opinion worth these days?

[jbyrne]

Me neither. Right age profile.
Getting a youthful manager is double edged. Does well, he'll only last a campaign at most and the cycle begins again e.g. Speed with Wales.


you do remember why Gary Speed is no longer the Wales manager?

[Dermotron]

Christ, bad mistake, was full sure he was at Sheffield United at the time. Must edited that

[geysir]

Speed with Wales?
Craig Bellamy comes to mind.

[SwanVsDalton]

Anyone but O'Leary. He's not the worst manager, but he's not particularly good either, has been out of the game for about six years (apart from that woeful spell at Al Ahly) and could fall out with a bunch of flowers. He's never been popular with fans anywhere either. We want stability and inclusivity in the next regime? Then keep O'Leary away from it.

I'd favour O'Neill (if he was available) as some of his faults (particularly poor transfer dealings) would be void at international level. His strengths lie in motivation and unity, something we could dearly do with. However he's another who, like Trap, often has undroppable favourites. He might not be as bad as Gio, but I'd expect a continuation of some odd calls and maybe the odd blow-up.

[Crosby87]

Isnt Speed dead?

[geysir]

Anyone but O'Leary. He's not the worst manager, but he's not particularly good either, has been out of the game for about six years (apart from that woeful spell at Al Ahly) and could fall out with a bunch of flowers. He's never been popular with fans anywhere either. We want stability and inclusivity in the next regime? Then keep O'Leary away from it.

I'd favour O'Neill (if he was available) as some of his faults (particularly poor transfer dealings) would be void at international level. His strengths lie in motivation and unity, something we could dearly do with. However he's another who, like Trap, often has undroppable favourites. He might not be as bad as Gio, but I'd expect a continuation of some odd calls and maybe the odd blow-up.
It goes with the job description that the manager be a hard áss, single minded, stubborn git.

[Kingdom]

What's your opinion worth these days?

That depends if it's football, Gah or Pitch and Putt. So not a lot on either.

I think that the new man is picked already, which disappoints me.
I'd like to think that the new manager would have a look at the FAI database of eligible players (or Tets) and decide to either pick the best 11 players and mould a formation to suit them, or pick the best formation and then the most suitable players for each position. Such as a left-back at left-back. A winger on the wing, or a right corner-forward at right-corner forward. Then when you find yourself 60m into the wind, a sharp punch into the back of the green sets up the birdie chance.

I feel sorry that it has ended the way it has, but in another way I don't feel sorry for Trap one bit. Pilkington was poor last night, and to put him in with the last night and starting yesterday is a slap in the face to Brady. It looked like Pilkington wasn't comfortable with the (limited) movement of his teammates, something that comes with time and familiarity.
Wilson was atrocious again, and he's a good player generally but he's been dodgy at best. Left-back is a problem position for us, as was right back before Coleman was trusted.

Something that is really sticking in my craw now though, is the punditry. It's clichéd, ridiculous, camp-ish, and horribly narrow-minded.
People say we don't have the players, or we're limited. I call bull-sh1t.
Just because club managers in England (the same ones ridiculed on a daily basis, by the same pundits/analysts) decide that our players are at a level, doesn't mean that is the case.
Fahey, McGeady, Brady, Hoolihan, Coleman are technically sound players. Gibson has proved doubters wrong (I was dubious to say the least) since moving to Everton. McCarthy is a young player, but far from a child, and is taking time to adjust to responsibility, but often he is trying to do the job of two, or worse, of three.

Maybe some of our fans don't know what players we have coming through the ranks. We have talented players in the underage teams. They are yet to break through to the senior sides in their clubs in nearly every case, but at this stage, what does it matter?

Personally speaking Euro 2012 means nothing to me, as my Dad died a few days beforehand, so I don't have any drunken nostalgia over hearing the anthem at the finals before a good sing-song and a walloping. Was I proud we qualified? Hell yes. But there is a fine line between brilliance and pure luck, and the luck that we missed out on in WC2010 qualifying was repaid in Bucketloads during EC2012. We were extremely poor against Russia home and away, we were shockingly bad at home to Slovakia and Armenia. We got the only team we could definitely beat in the play-offs before being comfortably the weakest side in the competition. It's not that we were beaten out the gate by teams definitively better than us, it's that the brain's trust didnt' attempt to put in a formation that would have us counteract what we were going to face. Russia showed what a three man centre mid would do to us, yet no different formation were forthcoming.
I said it here, but I would not have renewed after the Euro playoff. To then give an extended contract was head-wrecking. He should have been removed after the German game, which would have allowed us 18 months to at worst prepare for the Euro 2016 campaign, if qualifying could have been salvaged. Sweden were ****-poor, Austria worse, yet both times this last week we looked miles behind tactically. It wasn't Ibrahimovic who wrecked us against Sweden, it was Ekdal. He controlled play moving the ball left/right, diagonal etc.

Tl; dr: No to O'Neill. Give a Communist a few quid and airmiles to Britain.

[geysir]

Jesuss Kingdom, when the hand cuffs are loosened, you can fairly let loose on the keyboard :)

[geysir]

I feel sorry that it has ended the way it has, but in another way I don't feel sorry for Trap one bit. Pilkington was poor last night, and to put him in with the last night and starting yesterday is a slap in the face to Brady. It looked like Pilkington wasn't comfortable with the (limited) movement of his teammates, something that comes with time and familiarity.
Wilson was atrocious again, and he's a good player generally but he's been dodgy at best. Left-back is a problem position for us, as was right back before Coleman was trusted.

'Pilks' did alright, I was well pleased with his attitude, he's one of us now, if he's fit he's ahead of McClean, Walters.
He wasn't fully fit and that was virtually his first international cap. He's man enough for that beard, not everybody is, it's not just a matter of growing a beard. The problem wasn't that 'Pilks' was picked but (with hindsight) that Walters was picked ahead of Brady. We should only need one workhorse at wide midfield.

[Kingdom]

'Pilks' did alright, I was well pleased with his attitude, he's one of us now, if he's fit he's ahead of McClean, Walters.
He wasn't fully fit and that was virtually his first international cap. He's man enough for that beard, not everybody is, it's not just a matter of growing a beard. The problem wasn't that 'Pilks' was picked but (with hindsight) that Walters was picked ahead of Brady. We should only need one workhorse at wide midfield.

I don't think he did alright at all. I'm not saying he's a bad player - he's quite obviously good - but the wisdom in playing him last night was flawed in my mind.
Attitude doesn't come into it for me. Attitude is a pre-requisite, expected.

The funny thing is I think we'd have been better if Walters was the totum with Long and Keane off him and with perhaps Hoolahan ahead of Green and McCarthy.

[Spudulika]

No matter who comes in, before long they will be ridiculed, lambasted, hammered and undermined - our meeja have taken their cues well from the motherland.

Last night Bill dragged it to a new low when sneering about Paul Green.

Love to see someone like Alan Curbishley have a chance, what he did at Charlton is too often forgotten and he was unfairly treated at West Ham. Other than that it's the usual carousel of has beens, losers and media favourites. Phil Brown could be in the mix now that Southend are in trouble.

[Kingdom]

No matter who comes in, before long they will be ridiculed, lambasted, hammered and undermined - our meeja have taken their cues well from the motherland.

Last night Bill dragged it to a new low when sneering about Paul Green.

Love to see someone like Alan Curbishley have a chance, what he did at Charlton is too often forgotten and he was unfairly treated at West Ham. Other than that it's the usual carousel of has beens, losers and media favourites. Phil Brown could be in the mix now that Southend are in trouble.

Yeah Curbishley is a good shout. Not looking for a hipster appointment, but we always, always seem to be linked to a recycled, unsuccessful, staunchly British manager.
Would it be that hard for Delaney to go through the records of the big - to- medium European leagues over the past 5 years and look at managers that achieved success either in the form of trophies, or in the form of changing the fortunes of unheralded clubs with small budgets., and why or how did they do it.
Like say what Ralk Ragnik achieved at Hoffenheim, or Gross at Basel, rather than say what was achieved at Anzhi through a shedload of cash.

I'd like to think that's the level of detail that would go into a decision that could yield 8m being spunked away over 5 years or so.

[SwanVsDalton]

It goes with the job description that the manager be a hard áss, single minded, stubborn git.

For sure. Just saying anyone complaining about Trap's relationships with players would have cause to keep that moan going if O'Neill took over.

[SwanVsDalton]

Some player and former player reaction to Trap's departure (as reported on BBC).


Trapattoni's gone then. Can't argue with the job he did qualifying for the Euros and play-offs. But he has come out with some stupid comments at times and communication could have been a lot better.


Legend of the the game and took Irish football to the next level, thanks for everything Mr Trapattoni.


Trapattoni is a legend in the game. It was an honour to play for him!


Delighted to hear the news..#Comeonyouboysingreen #trappout


It's a blow. I'm a bit gutted to be honest because he was a good manager. You look at his record and how well he has done for Ireland. We were in good contention to qualify for the World Cup, but unfortunately we slipped up.

McCarthy really letting rip on their perceived rocky relationship...

Edit: Updated to include Harte. There's a definite pattern emerging...

[Park_Lane]

Glen Hoddle anyone?
Good tactical awareness
Teams play good football
Gives youth a chance

[Jolly Red Giant]

My wishlist

Marcelo Bielsa

former Argentina, Chile and Athletico Bilbao manager.

Morten Wieghorst

assistant manager at Swansea

Arie Haan

China, Cameroon, Albania and a host of clubs - currently managing in China PL (a bit of a nutcase - but he has a good football brain and it would be a lot of fun).

Forget about René Meulensteen he's being paid a fortune to manage Anzhi

As for those listed - O'Neill, McDermott, Hughton (won't leave the PL), McCarthy and Keane - it would be more of the same (with the possible exception of McDermott)

[boovidge]

At least Paul Jewell hasn't been mentioned yet...

[EAFC_rdfl]

terry venables is bound to be in with a shot at it..

[Serb]

What's Alex Ferguson up to these days?

[jbyrne]

Last night Bill dragged it to a new low when sneering about Paul Green.


dunphy and bill were pure shocking last night. continually ignoring facts like...

dunphy: "coleman should have been taken to the euros as he was outstanding for everton that season"
no he wasnt. his form was dreadful for everton and he regularly failed to make the team.

bill: "we could coax stephen ireland back under a new manager"
no we cant. he doesnt want to play for us full stop. in anycase his form is dreadful.

and so on and on and on...

[Stuttgart88]

Steve Coppell maybe. I'd have my doubts but worth debating.

[Yard of Pace]

Steve Coppell maybe. I'd have my doubts but worth debating.

Walked out on Man City after 6 games because of the pressure. And that's when City were nothing! Wouldn't exactly like to see him leading the team out in a vital qualifier, though I like him as a man he did well at Reading.

Just checked Wiki actually....

"but, on 11 August 2010 after only four months in charge, Coppell resigned as Bristol City manager, saying that he would retire from football management altogether citing a lack of passion for the job"

Not the kind of character we need.

[geysir]

He likes guinness, doesn't he?

[DannyInvincible]

Denis O'Brien is to continue providing financial backing for Trap's replacement, at least in the short term: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/0911/473636-obrien-will-again-provide-funds-for-irish-manager/

[Paddy Garcia]

Last night Bill dragged it to a new low when sneering about Paul Green.



I know what you mean - I sensed (hoped!) their may have been some embarrassment in the studio when Green was then interviewed and gave an honest and direct interview afterwards. I'm not a Green fan but the manner of the punditry was immature at best.

[DannyInvincible]

In every report I've read, it only mentioned that Trap and Marco are having their contracts cancelled. So, y'know, does this mean Manuela gets to stay on?... :cool:

[Stuttgart88]

Kingdom, when people rattle out that old cliché "we haven't got the players" you have to ask "players for what?" Beating Germany or winning just one home game of note in 6 years?

[Stuttgart88]

I know what you mean - I sensed (hoped!) their may have been some embarrassment in the studio when Green was then interviewed and gave an honest and direct interview afterwards. I'm not a Green fan but the manner of the punditry was immature at best.I thought Green was a monumental improvement on Whelan and better than McCarthy. It wasn't his fault Wilson blasted the ball into him.

[DannyInvincible]

Like say what Ralk Ragnik achieved at Hoffenheim, or Gross at Basel

You're treading on this ice with that sort of self-anointed pseudo-intellectual talk; just be careful you don't incur the wrath of David Kelly (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/same-old-story-needs-to-have-a-different-ending-29563509.html)!

[geysir]

I have to say, it was one of Ronnie Whelan's saner contributions to commentary, to give the motm to Green.

[DannyInvincible]

Edit: Updated to include Harte. There's a definite pattern emerging...

God almighty; Harte, in contrast to the admiring others, just appears so petty and bitter.

[DannyInvincible]

I have to say, it was one of Ronnie Whelan's saner contributions to commentary, to give the motm to Green.

At one point early on, I'm pretty sure Ronnie was criticising Trap for ignoring Pilkington for so long until now. :confused:

Since making himself available to play for us - any delay there was beyond Trap's control - Pilkington pulled out of every squad, until Sweden, into which Trap attempted to call him.

[Stuttgart88]

The new manager should be given a % of gate receipts. Crowds will return if successful and we don't just hoof it :)

[TonyD]

dunphy and bill were pure shocking last night. continually ignoring facts like...

dunphy: "coleman should have been taken to the euros as he was outstanding for everton that season"
no he wasnt. his form was dreadful for everton and he regularly failed to make the team.

bill: "we could coax stephen ireland back under a new manager"
no we cant. he doesnt want to play for us full stop. in anycase his form is dreadful.

and so on and on and on...

Highlight for me was claiming Del Bosque was doing the Spanish job for fifty grand a year. Eh, no, I meant Bilic Bill :)

Bradys punditry has been really annoying since he's rejoined the panel. "We haven't got the players" While there is undoubtedly a fair amount of truth in this, he hasn't cut previous managers any slack in this regard, and I'll bet he won't be so generous with the new man either. Clear case of sticking up for his mate.

[youngirish]

I'd like to see Brian McDermott given a go. A young up and coming manager he did wonders at Reading and seems to be doing well at Leeds. his teams play good football with limited resources so perfect for us.

He also stated that it was his ambition to manage Ireland earlier this year so he's unlikely to jump ship if he gets a good campaign under his belt.

[RiffRaff]

For me it has to be a manager who knows about the players already, can make them believe they can match any opposition, attends matches, understand the mentality and does his bit to be respectful to the domestic league. I can't really see any further than O'Neill. McCarthy, McDermott, Houghton all have points to prove in club football and further down the leagues, the likes of Sheridan and O'Driscoll haven't achieved enough.

[Fixer82]

I thought Green was a monumental improvement on Whelan and better than McCarthy. It wasn't his fault Wilson blasted the ball into him.

Definitely a good choice for MOTM. I felt as if the RTÉ panel couldn't bring themselves to admit he played well

[DannyInvincible]

Some player and former player reaction to Trap's departure (as reported on BBC).

Darron Gibson also tweeted yesterday (https://twitter.com/D_gibson4/status/377896598371827714):


On a more positive note, good day all round 2day! Knee feels good, trainin went well and.........

[Spudulika]

My wishlist

Marcelo Bielsa

former Argentina, Chile and Athletico Bilbao manager.

Morten Wieghorst

assistant manager at Swansea

Arie Haan

China, Cameroon, Albania and a host of clubs - currently managing in China PL (a bit of a nutcase - but he has a good football brain and it would be a lot of fun).

Forget about René Meulensteen he's being paid a fortune to manage Anzhi

As for those listed - O'Neill, McDermott, Hughton (won't leave the PL), McCarthy and Keane - it would be more of the same (with the possible exception of McDermott)

Meulensteen was sacked by Anzhi when he was found out to be a complete chancer. He was despised by players there, undermined Hiddink to the point where the man had no decision but to leave and only messed up by trying to cut deals with agents behind the sports directors (head agents) back. His biggest mistake was promising to get Alex Ferguson in as a consultant/director/ambassador if he was given the job. He failed within the time period and was sacked.

I'm wary of any continental coach coming in, especially with the corruption attached to them, not saying Irish or British managers are any different, only they'd be reined in.

Again, no matter who comes in, they'll be destroyed before long. If we got Slutsky, Mourinho, Capello, Del Bosque, Bilic - all being told from our meeja that they're not good enough and haven't the experience of standing on a muddy pitch in Glasthule in November.

[SwanVsDalton]

Darron Gibson also tweeted yesterday (https://twitter.com/D_gibson4/status/377896598371827714):

Crass. There's a part of me that hopes Gibson never plays for us again.

[Bungle]

Crass. There's a part of me that hopes Gibson never plays for us again.

Agree with you in many ways. Regardless of what I think of Trap's decisions over the past 18 months, he is a footballing god and a gentleman. He is 100 times the man that Gibson will ever be.

Having said that, Gibson is somewhere in the category betweena good and a very good premiership player. He would greatly improve us on the pitch, even if he does come across as a total **** of the highest order.

[barney]

dunphy and bill were pure shocking last night. continually ignoring facts like...

dunphy: "coleman should have been taken to the euros as he was outstanding for everton that season"
no he wasnt. his form was dreadful for everton and he regularly failed to make the team.

bill: "we could coax stephen ireland back under a new manager"
no we cant. he doesnt want to play for us full stop. in anycase his form is dreadful.

and so on and on and on...

It was really poor around Paul Green. The sort of stuff I'd expect from lads in a pub who haven't a notion what they're talking about.

Green was very good the other night. You could easily put together a bunch of clips showing him winning the ball and using it well (even if not always spectacularly). I can easily remember 6-7 great pieces of play from him. If it was Hoolahan or someone Dunphy and Giles would have been soiling themselves. Fact is, they couldn't properly judge the lad's performance because they have pre-conceived notions about him. Whether those notions are right or wrong generally speaking isn't the point, they should at least be able to see the lad's performance at any given time.

Disgusting stuff and Bill and Giles particularly should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. Pair of c**ts. The lad went out and gave 100% for Ireland and these two jokers are sneering at him like two schoolyard bullies.

[geysir]

They remind me of the two old heckling codgers in the balcony of Sesame Street, Statler and Waldorf.

[Yard of Pace]

Crass. There's a part of me that hopes Gibson never plays for us again.

Ashley Cole appears to be one of the worst human beings in the entire world but no fans of his club or his country have a problem with him lining out for them. Because he's a great player.

Gibson fell out with Trap. He seems like a bit of an eejit. But he's a very good player and I'd have no problem with him playing for us again. Unless he starts nicking handbags off old ladies in Portmarnock or bullying the younger members of the squad for their lunch-money, or something.

[Kingdom]

Kingdom, when people rattle out that old cliché "we haven't got the players" you have to ask "players for what?" Beating Germany or winning just one home game of note in 6 years?

That is the crux of the issue. I don't think anyone here believes that we should be topping groups or having a 100% win ratio every campaign. But when you see our nearest neighbours striking impressive isolated victories over incredibly higher profile nations than themselves, it is natural to wonder what is the problem with us trying to do similar?
If we acknowledge Holland as our last significant victory at home, in the following campaigns they have beaten: England; Denmark, Spain, Sweden; Poland, Slovenia; Slovenia (a); Russia.
They are serious victories. However, they've had hugely underwhelming, embarassing in some cases, defeats too. So it's not all flowers and lollipops getting a significant victory here and there either.

If you're looking at the peer opposition we've faced under Trap: Sweden, Austria; Slovakia; Bulgaria, Montenegro*; we've taken a grand total of 8 points out of a total of 30.
If you're looking at the superior opposition we've faced under Trap: Germany; Russia; Italy; we've a total of 3 points from 15.

It's been our consistent ability to beat the weaker teams** - something we've done quite well routinely (bar Stan and the odd crazy slip up per generation [Liechtenstein; Iceland;] - that has kept us in the hunt for qualification in the first two Trap campaigns. It would lead me to wonder was the tactic to beat the minnows home and away, not lose to our peers in pot 3, try to scrap points from the top seeds if possible, and hope our peers slip up to the minnows?
That's what frustrates me, and why I, perhaps snidely, ask that question about "the quality of our players". I don't believe our players are stupid. I don't believe that they wouldn't be able to adapt to a different formation at home that would utilise the creativity that we lack, or moulded to attack the weak links of the opposition.

I was thinking of something else there. People say that the Andorra's of this world should not be in qualifying, because they're sole objective is to concede as few goals as possible, and offer nothing. That's not remarkably different to our recent mentality of trying to not be beaten away from home. That run was excellent, but if the game plan doesn't change at home - and it hasn't, then really what's the point. It's like Russian Roulette with no bullets. You don't die, but neither does the other guy.


*I would include Montenegro as a peer in hindsight, as they have been very consistent in the qualifiers since their inclusion.
** I wouldn't include Israel as a weaker team in hindsight either, as that was their best team of a generation, and their results in that group proved it.