Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[Junior]

http://www.thesquareball.net/2013/09/12/brian-mcdermott-rules-self-out-of-ireland-position/

Brian McDermott has today ruled himself out of the Ireland manager’s position, which was vacated on the back of Trapattoni’s departure. McDermott was a favourite at the bookies and mentioned specifically by the FAI’s John Delaney, but he moved today to quash rumours that he could be set to leave Leeds, referring to himself as “100% committed” to the task ahead at Elland Road.
Having been embraced wholeheartedly by Leeds fans since taking over in April, McDermott says he feels as though he has been “adopted here at Leeds” and that he owes “these supporters” for that. Whilst McDermott would clearly love to manage Ireland, he says that “the Ireland job is in the future”.

Referring back to Leeds, McDermott set his eyes on what needed to be done, saying that in the past there has been too many quick fixes and a significant lack of stability. McDermott clarified that he sought assurances from Acting CEO Paul Hunt and MD David Haigh after Ireland’s interests became clear, and it can be seen as nothing but a positive that he came away from those talks with the confidence to move forward.

[youngirish]

http://www.thesquareball.net/2013/09/12/brian-mcdermott-rules-self-out-of-ireland-position/

Brian McDermott has today ruled himself out of the Ireland manager’s position, which was vacated on the back of Trapattoni’s departure. McDermott was a favourite at the bookies and mentioned specifically by the FAI’s John Delaney, but he moved today to quash rumours that he could be set to leave Leeds, referring to himself as “100% committed” to the task ahead at Elland Road.
Having been embraced wholeheartedly by Leeds fans since taking over in April, McDermott says he feels as though he has been “adopted here at Leeds” and that he owes “these supporters” for that. Whilst McDermott would clearly love to manage Ireland, he says that “the Ireland job is in the future”.

Referring back to Leeds, McDermott set his eyes on what needed to be done, saying that in the past there has been too many quick fixes and a significant lack of stability. McDermott clarified that he sought assurances from Acting CEO Paul Hunt and MD David Haigh after Ireland’s interests became clear, and it can be seen as nothing but a positive that he came away from those talks with the confidence to move forward.

I would imagine that what he was really thinking to himself when he uttered those words was 'The Ireland job is in the future... When they have better players and the public more realistic expectations'. But we'll never know.

[jbyrne]

I would imagine that what he was really thinking to himself when he uttered those words was 'The Ireland job is in the future... When they have better players and the public more realistic expectations'. But we'll never know.

could be waiting so...

[shakermaker1982]

How has mypost taken the news? Not seen him on here for a while.

[SwanVsDalton]

Ashley Cole appears to be one of the worst human beings in the entire world but no fans of his club or his country have a problem with him lining out for them. Because he's a great player.

Gibson fell out with Trap. He seems like a bit of an eejit. But he's a very good player and I'd have no problem with him playing for us again. Unless he starts nicking handbags off old ladies in Portmarnock or bullying the younger members of the squad for their lunch-money, or something.

Likewise I'd ultimately have Gibson back because he has quality.

However Cole is a world class left-back who appears to be a brilliant professional but a horrid person. Gibson is a decent midfielder who lacked class and professionalism when he decided to pick and choose when he plays for his country.

I don't actually care what type of human Gibson is, I care about his commitment and volatility when he doesn't get his way. Particularly when you consider Gibson would have a fraction of the caps (and been far less likely of a decent move) if it wasn't for manager the threw a strop at.

[jbyrne]

hughton also rules himself out...

"Leeds manager Brian McDermott and Norwich City boss Chris Hughton have ruled themselves out of the running for the vacant Republic of Ireland manager's job.

McDermott and Hughton revealed at pre-match press conferences for their clubs today that they wish to remain with their respective sides.

Hughton said: "I'm Norwich City manager, the fans and the board have been incredibly supportive to me and I'm very happy here"

[Yard of Pace]

Likewise I'd ultimately have Gibson back because he has quality.

However Cole is a world class left-back who appears to be a brilliant professional but a horrid person. Gibson is a decent midfielder who lacked class and professionalism when he decided to pick and choose when he plays for his country.

I don't actually care what type of human Gibson is, I care about his commitment and volatility when he doesn't get his way. Particularly when you consider Gibson would have a fraction of the caps (and been far less likely of a decent move) if it wasn't for manager the threw a strop at.

Going on Ashley Cole's own tale of nearly crashing his car upon hearing that Arsenal were "taking the **** out of him" by offering him 5k less a week than he wanted, I'd be interested to see his reaction if he spent a tournament watching patently inferior left-backs play for his country while spending the entire time as an un-used substitute.

I'm prepared to cut Gibson some slack. He seems like a winner. I'd rather him than some useless plodder who got ideas above his station and would lick Trap's hole at any opportunity just because he was getting his game. Like Glenn Whelan. :D

[jbyrne]

I'm prepared to cut Gibson some slack. He seems like a winner. I'd rather him than some useless plodder who got ideas above his station and would lick Trap's hole at any opportunity just because he was getting his game. Like Glenn Whelan. :D

what has gibson ever done in an Ireland shirt (or everton or man utd for that matter) that suggests he is a "winner"?
lazy, soft, moody and disinterested are words that are probably more appropriate.

what has glenn whelan ever said or done that would suggest he "got above his station"?

[Irwin3]

Likewise I'd ultimately have Gibson back because he has quality.

However Cole is a world class left-back who appears to be a brilliant professional but a horrid person. Gibson is a decent midfielder who lacked class and professionalism when he decided to pick and choose when he plays for his country.

I don't actually care what type of human Gibson is, I care about his commitment and volatility when he doesn't get his way. Particularly when you consider Gibson would have a fraction of the caps (and been far less likely of a decent move) if it wasn't for manager the threw a strop at.

Could your assessment of this situation be any more one-sided? There are two sides to every story. Gibson hasn't exactly gained much from exiling himself. Makes you think he might have strong reasons to do so, no?

Also plenty of players pick and choose when they play for their country. Injury requirements by clubs, early retirement etc. All of which could be easily seen as being more unprofessional than refusing to play for a manager who you have an acrimonious relationship with.

You also give Trap way too much credit. I'm sure Gibson would have gained plenty of caps under a different manager. He was already in the squad pre-trap, he was a young Man Utd player and there were very few viable CM options available. You then give Trap credit for Gibson's move as well. Going by the average person's comments here, if anything his international appearances would have hindered any move due to him being such a poor player and failing to do anything in a green shirt. He got his move because he's a good player and the current and former Man Utd managers both agree with this sentiment. His 8 starts for Trap over 5 years had little to with it.

[Yard of Pace]

what has glenn whelan ever said or done that would suggest he "got above his station"?

He said a few things over the years after Trap compared him to Gattuso at the beginning of his reign.

I really don't like Glenn Whelan, so don't mind me.

As for Gibson....
http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gibson.gif

[SwanVsDalton]

Could your assessment of this situation be any more one-sided? There are two sides to every story. Gibson hasn't exactly gained much from exiling himself. Makes you think he might have strong reasons to do so, no?

I'm sure he considers them good reasons. I just take a dim view on taking yourself out of consideration.


Also plenty of players pick and choose when they play for their country. Injury requirements by clubs, early retirement etc. All of which could be easily seen as being more unprofessional than refusing to play for a manager who you have an acrimonious relationship with.

Not an argument I buy at all. Disingenuous injuries are poor form, early retirement depends on context - but let's not get into non-specific whataboutery. I happen to think it extremely unprofessional for a player to repeatedly refuse to play for a manager who he played under for a number of years, whether because of a falling out or because the manager didn't pick him at a tournament.


You also give Trap way too much credit. I'm sure Gibson would have gained plenty of caps under a different manager. He was already in the squad pre-trap, he was a young Man Utd player and there were very few viable CM options available. You then give Trap credit for Gibson's move as well. Going by the average person's comments here, if anything his international appearances would have hindered any move due to him being such a poor player and failing to do anything in a green shirt. He got his move because he's a good player and the current and former Man Utd managers both agree with this sentiment. His 8 starts for Trap over 5 years had little to with it.

What might and might not have happened doesn't concern me, but it's laughable to suggest his international career had no bearing on his move. Ferguson can agree with the sentiment all he wants - he played him only occasionally, and rarely in his final season or so at OT.

Meanwhile Trap made him a fixture of an international squad, and the de-facto third choice midfielder for most of his tenure up until the Euros. This despite Gibson's continued selection being held up by a section of support/media as an example of Trap's muppetry.

Another manager may have started him every Ireland match, but another might've discarded him completely. Gibson's a good player, but his position even in the squad was under scrutiny from day one because he barely got a game with his club and split the crowd when in a green shirt.

Moyes might have taken an interest, might have signed him. But Gibson was a punt, albeit cheap, and Moyes has a hard-won reputation for thriftyness. I really can't see him signing a player just because he's buddies with the guy's manager, particularly when that manager doesn't even play him and is willing to let him go easy.

Moyes had to weigh it up carefully - you really don't think the consistent seal-of-approval from an international manager didn't feed into that?

As for being one-sided, it's not that I haven't considered what Gibson's side could be - I just find it really weak sauce for prolonged self-exile. If it turns out Trap called him a chubby nordie turncoat, I might reconsider but, even then, I find self-exile really, really infuriating.

[youngirish]

So remaining realistic candidates:


O'Neill
Pros
- Experienced at top level management.
- Had an excellent managerial record before Sunderland.
- Available straight away.
Cons
- Generally his teams play negative football which has been one of the main criticisms of Trappatoni.
- Perhaps his best years are behind him.
- Not a former player so perhaps won't have the same affinity for the setup, fans and players as some of the other candidates.

McCarthy
Pros
- Already an experienced International manager.
- Has a great affinity with the team and fans.
- Apparently has a release clause in his contract which allows him to take the job if offered.
- 2002 World Cup perhaps the pinnacle for any Irish team, performance wise.
Cons
- Has a very average managerial record compared to some of the alternatives.
- Besides the 2002 World Cup his almost 7 years in charge were fruitless with considerably better resources than Trappatoni.

O'Leary
Pros
- Has a very decent record at the top level in club management.
- One of our greatest ever players. Who can forget Italia 1990?
- Available immediately and perhaps looking to prove himself after a considerable time in the wilderness.
- His teams play attractive football.
Cons
- Perhaps more likely than most to use the position as a stepping stone to get back into club management.
- His post match interviews are excruciating.
- Hasn't done anything of note as a manager for a number of years.

Keane
Pros
- Arguably our greatest ever player.
- Inspires confidence in all around him.
- His desire to win is legendary. He's not going to take the job just to do the best he can.
Cons
- Likely to fall out with players leaving them in the International wilderness.
- Polarising figure. May create disunity within the team and amongst the fans.
- His management record is fairly poor.

Coyle
Pros
- His teams play attractive football.
- He has a good record of getting the best out of teams with limited resources.
Cons
- His management profile has been on the slide in recent times.
- Has only recently accepted a new job so unlikely to be interested.

[Irwin3]

You're right it's all about circumstances. Duff, O'Brien, Steven Reid. Retired, withdraws to manage injury but plays for club, retires but available in an emergency. All took themselves out of consideration.

You talk about whataboutery. You might want to look in the mirror, my friend. You are just speculating about things yourself. You, like I, don't know the specifics of what transpired between them.

On one hand you're saying that Gibson was poor for Ireland and that he should be thankful to Trap for picking him. And on the other you're saying that these poor performances helped him get a good move. Doesn't quite add up.

What helped him get a good move is that he's a good player and Ferguson advised Moyes to take him.

EDIT: In reply to Swans monster above.

[back of the net]

down to 59th in world rankings

Iceland, wales , cape verde islands , and uzbekistan are all ahead of us
http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html

[barney]

Keane
Pros
- Arguably our greatest ever player.
- Inspires confidence in all around him.
- His desire to win is legendary. He's not going to take the job just to do the best he can.
Cons
- Likely to fall out with players leaving them in the International wilderness.
- Polarising figure. May create disunity within the team and amongst the fans.
- His management record is fairly poor.



Don't disagree with much in your post except the BIB. Roy Keane's desire to win is not legendary. It's a myth. Roy Keane's desire to do what's best for Roy Keane is legendary. Most of the time, that entails winning but sometimes it involves doing things that actually hinder his team's ability to win for selfish reasons.

Two examples:

1. Getting deliberately sent off for assaulting Haaland with a Manchester derby poised at 1-1 to settle an old score.
2. Getting deliberately sent off for elbowing McAteer with a game against Sunderland poised at 1-1 to settle a petty argument.

[SwanVsDalton]

You're right it's all about circumstances. Duff, O'Brien, Steven Reid. Retired, withdraws to manage injury but plays for club, retires but available in an emergency. All took themselves out of consideration.

You think they were unprofessional? With those who retire early, commitment is usually beyond reproach.


You talk about whataboutery. You might want to look in the mirror, my friend. You are just speculating about things yourself. You, like I, don't know the specifics of what transpired between them.

That isn't what whataboutery means. Anyway I've barely speculated on the details between between Trap and Gibson. What we know is Trap didn't play him at the Euros, Gibson subsequently didn't want to play for Trap. I find that unacceptable, as outlined in several 'monster' posts.

For the circumstances to dramatically change my mind, they'd have to be so sensational they'd likely be widely known amongst players, FAI and media ie Trap called Gibson fat, which is rumoured. I talked about this over in the Gibson thread - there isn't any indication of this was the case beyond innuendo.


On one hand you're saying that Gibson was poor for Ireland and that he should be thankful to Trap for picking him. And on the other you're saying that these poor performances helped him get a good move. Doesn't quite add up.

Where did I say Gibson was poor for Ireland? If you want to check my views on Gibson the player, they're largely in this thread - I've always been a fan.

Where did I say 'these poor performances helped him get a move'? I just didn't, not even close.

What I actually said is there was large number of fans and media who questioned him being a fixture in matchday squads. That's 'fans and media'.

I separately said Gibson helped get his move because Moyes would have factored in the player regularly being included in matchday squads.

Would you say Moyes would listen to fans and media or the actions of an acclaimed manager?


What helped him get a good move is that he's a good player and Ferguson advised Moyes to take him.

That's a reason. But are you saying, categorically, a player's international exploits bears no bearing on getting a transfer?

Best take this to the Gibson thread or PM if you want to actually answer.

[Irwin3]

- You don't?

- I know what whataboutery means. My use of it is fine. Maybe check the meaning yourself?

- Maybe not yourself saying Gibson was poor but your support/media line who perceived him to be poor, as you then point out yourself. You know what I'm saying.

- A 1% bearing, maybe. It's insignificant, really. Being behind Whelan, Andrews, Green isn't really a ringing endorsement to join the 6/7th best team in the PL. Getting caps for most countries isn't really a bearing on whether a manager deems that they have the ability to play for a top PL side. All they show is roughly your ranking among your fellow countrymen, which in this case isn't such a great endorsement for Gibson.

[SwanVsDalton]

- You don't?

Generally, no. Duff's gave his all for Ireland. Steven Reid's history of injury makes his retirement understandable. You talking about Andy O'Brien? Not really all that exercised about it to be honest. He certainly didn't decline to come back repeatedly, unlike Gibson.


- I know what whataboutery means. My use of it is fine. Maybe check the meaning yourself?

Really doesn't seem like you do. Feel free to specifically point out where I've engaged in whataboutery in regards to Gibson.


- Maybe not yourself saying Gibson was poor but your support/media line who perceived him to be poor, as you then point out yourself. You know what I'm saying.

I know you've totally misunderstood me, yes.


- A 1% bearing, maybe. It's insignificant, really. Being behind Whelan, Andrews, Green isn't really a ringing endorsement to join the 6/7th best team in the PL. Getting caps for most countries isn't really a bearing on whether a manager deems that they have the ability to play for a top PL side. All they show is roughly your ranking among your fellow countrymen, which in this case isn't such a great endorsement for Gibson.

Thanks for actually answering the question. That's your assertion, I don't think it's on the money. As I've said international recognition mattered with Gibson because he barely made a dent in the Utd first team (cue 'CL semi-final' etc etc) and was way down the pecking order when shipped out.

Done with this, Gibson thread or bust.

[geysir]

So remaining realistic candidates:



McCarthy
Pros
- Already an experienced International manager.
- Has a great affinity with the team and fans.
- Apparently has a release clause in his contract which allows him to take the job if offered.
- 2002 World Cup perhaps the pinacle for any Irish team, performance wise.
Cons
- Has a very average managerial record compared to some of the alternatives.
- Besides the 2002 World Cup his almost 7 years in charge were fruitless with considerably better resources than Trappatoni.

Reports say Mick's free release clause ran out in August.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't understand why he'd have an international job release clause that expires in the middle of an international campaign.

[geysir]

Could have been a compromise situation, Mick wanted a release clause, club says yes, but not in the middle of our season.

[Irwin3]

Generally, no. Duff's gave his all for Ireland. Steven Reid's history of injury makes his retirement understandable. You talking about Andy O'Brien? Not really all that exercised about it to be honest. He certainly didn't decline to come back repeatedly, unlike Gibson.

Joey O'Brien.


Really doesn't seem like you do. Feel free to specifically point out where I've engaged in whataboutery in regards to Gibson.

Your first post and subsequent accusation of whataboutery, is whataboutery, no?


I know you've totally misunderstood me, yes.

No. I'll add some paranthesis to my comment to help you.

"On one hand you're saying that (support/media) said Gibson was poor for Ireland and that he should be thankful to Trap for picking him. And on the other you're saying that these poor performances helped him get a good move. Doesn't quite add up."


Thanks for actually answering the question. That's your assertion, I don't think it's on the money. As I've said international recognition mattered with Gibson because he barely made a dent in the Utd first team (cue 'CL semi-final' etc etc) and was way down the pecking order when shipped out.

Ferguson was grooming Moyes for years and appointed him as successor. He sells Moyes a player a year beforehand. Gibson's international appearances and battling Green for a place on the bench are of little relevance, and are indeed a possible hindrance to any move. Hypothetical conversation (to be honest I doubt if his international credentials would even be mentioned):

DM: Gibson any good.
AF: Yes, good passing range, can score a goal.
DM: How come he can't get in the Ireland team ahead of Whelan and journeymen like Andrews and Green?
AF: Er...

[DannyInvincible]

Whilst McDermott would clearly love to manage Ireland, he says that “the Ireland job is in the future”.

So, we're just a back-up option for Brian then?...

In seriousness, isn't he being a bit presumptious there?


Going on Ashley Cole's own tale of nearly crashing his car upon hearing that Arsenal were "taking the **** out of him" by offering him 5k less a week than he wanted, I'd be interested to see his reaction if he spent a tournament watching patently inferior left-backs play for his country while spending the entire time as an un-used substitute.

But Cole did actually crash his car. Actually, no, wait, that was Jermaine Pennant (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1484718/Jermaine-Pennant-jailed-for-second-drink-drive-case.html)...


I'm prepared to cut Gibson some slack. He seems like a winner. I'd rather him than some useless plodder who got ideas above his station and would lick Trap's hole at any opportunity just because he was getting his game. Like Glenn Whelan. :D

Darron certainly isn't immune from those notions of grandeur himself. Anyway, I think you're unfair on Whelan. What's he said to suggest he has lofty self-impressions?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Any youngish manager worth their salt is going to hang on in club management.

More interesting and more lucrative!

[Spudulika]

What Liam Brady said seems to be more and more insightful. It could all be a ruse with JD and the boys already signed up with MON.

[DannyInvincible]

What Liam Brady said seems to be more and more insightful.

What did Brady say?

[Charlie Darwin]

What did Brady say?
Said he wouldn't want the job cos our players is crap

http://www.independent.ie/sport/liam-brady-i-doubt-if-martin-oneill-wants-the-job-29571578.html

[Stuttgart88]

He said a few things over the years after Trap compared him to Gattuso at the beginning of his reign.

I really don't like Glenn Whelan, so don't mind me.

As for Gibson....
http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/gibson.gifin fairness to Whelan he was actually very critical of Trap and said he'd prefer an extra man in midfield. I think he's past his best for us and would be remembered more fondly if Tap hadn't flogged him to near death.

[BonnieShels]

Right I've thought and thought about...

Bielsa.

End of.

[Stuttgart88]

I simply don't agree with anyone who says we haven't got the players to compete against second and third seeded teams. This is the biggest fallacy shooting the rounds at the moment.

[SwanVsDalton]

Joey O'Brien.

Open to correction, but don't think he's ever retired at any level. Maybe he made himself unavailable for period? But as I understand it O'Brien has about 5 per cent of his original knee cap left. What a mercenary.


Your first post and subsequent accusation of whataboutery, is whataboutery, no?

No. I accused you of whataboutery after you brought in 'early retirements' and players pulling out through injury in a conversation about Gibson. That's whataboutery, me calling you on it is not. Be specific or leave it alone.


No. I'll add some paranthesis to my comment to help you.

"On one hand you're saying that (support/media) said Gibson was poor for Ireland and that he should be thankful to Trap for picking him. And on the other you're saying that these poor performances helped him get a good move. Doesn't quite add up."

That's still not what I said.

For the final time. Separately - Gibson was chosen by Trap at a time when the guy clearly didn't have to pick him. He doesn't have to be slavishly thankful, it's just worth bearing in mind when the two subsequently have a mad falling out.

To whit: witness the players on Twitter yesterday thanking Trapattoni for giving them their chance. This isn't a complex point.

Subsequently those performances - good, bad, indifferent, fantastic, bogging - helped get him a move because when he was barely in a Utd squad, he was always in an Ireland squad. Disagree all you want but...


Ferguson was grooming Moyes for years and appointed him as successor. He sells Moyes a player a year beforehand. Gibson's international appearances and battling Green for a place on the bench are of little relevance, and are indeed a possible hindrance to any move. Hypothetical conversation (to be honest I doubt if his international credentials would even be mentioned):

DM: Gibson any good.
AF: Yes, good passing range, can score a goal.
DM: How come he can't get in the Ireland team ahead of Whelan and journeymen like Andrews and Green?
AF: Er...

...but I wish you'd do it with something more substantial than a bit of playwriting and 'sure Moyes and Fergie are BFFs!' None of that makes Gibson's international career as irrelevant as you're making out.

Look Darron, just tell us what happened in Poland and we'll call it quits, ok?

[SwanVsDalton]

I simply don't agree with anyone who says we haven't got the players to compete against second and third seeded teams. This is the biggest fallacy shooting the rounds at the moment.

Big time. European international football is as congested as it has ever been. Beneath a handful of top class teams - Spain, Germany, Holland, maybe Italy - everyone else, bar the minnows, should be looking to win every game. Sure there's only a hair's breadth between all of them.

Now with qualification for the Euros more open for ever, the idea we can't compete is laughable. Every game - bar a few - will be a lottery, but that was no different when we went to Poland. Barring a nightmare draw, France 2016 is there for the taking.


Right I've thought and thought about...

Bielsa.

End of.

From two centre mids, to five. I like it.

[shakermaker1982]

Ignoring the front runners.....

What about Glenn Hoddle? A bit of a wildcard and he has had his ups and downs but maybe worth an interview?

Sean O'Driscoll? Did a good job at Forest & liked to see the ball in the floor.

Curbishley? He must be bored out and itching for a shot at management again.

Are they sexy enough for the FAI? Will they get bums on seats early on. I really would be surprised if we went exotic. MO'N odds are 1/2 now so maybe he will get the nod. If it his him I hope John Robertson is part of the package. Martin did seem to struggle without him at Sunderland.

[Irwin3]

- Joey O'Brien withdrew from the current squad so that he could play for his club and manage his treatment regime. Some question putting club over country. I'm well aware of his injury record thanks, it's you who appears to need to get a bit more clued up.

- Your whataboutery is your claiming that I whataboutered when my post was but a reflection of your post from the opposite side.

- I give up. It's clear as day what you said and how I responded.

- The facts are that they are great pals and one has been grooming the other for the past 4+ years to succeed him. I feel Gibson's international successes or failures had an insignificant impact on him moving to Everton.

I'm not Darron nor have I even met him. Compare his twitter post if you don't believe me. You are at least clued up on them.

[Charlie Darwin]

- Joey O'Brien withdrew from the current squad so that he could play for his club and manage his treatment regime. Some question putting club over country. I'm well aware of his injury record thanks, it's you who appears to need to get a bit more clued up.
I don't understand why this misconception is still going. Trap had a provisional squad of 29, from which he had to cut 6. He chose to leave out O'Brien because he's managing an injury and because he probably wouldn't have made the final squad anyway. Nobody ever said he was injured, they said he was managing his injury.

[tricky_colour]

down to 59th in world rankings

Iceland, wales , cape verde islands , and uzbekistan are all ahead of us
http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html


That is our lowest ranking since 1993 which is as far back as the Fifa ranking seems to go.
We were ranked 6th in in 1993!!!
We have had one hell of a fall form grace.

Two ways for a potential manager to look at it, 1) The only way is up. 2) It's a poisoned chalice.

I think they should take the first option, ie we are currently worst than the sum of our parts and there is much room for a new manager to come in and make a name for himself moving us back up the rankings.

[Olé Olé]

I'm warming to the prospect of MON. While I know he is rigid in his tactics and personnel selection, he tends to pick the 11 best players at his disposal (even if that means playing a CM at RB i.e. Craig Gardner). Furthermore, he's gotten the best out of McGeady and McClean in the past and there exists a strong possibilty he will entrust Wes Hoolahan with a starting role as part of a 4-4-1-1.

He's also diplomatic and a good motivator and I could envisage those traits being applied to great effect in the current environment of the Irish squad.

Given the restricted playing pool we have, it could be construed that Darron Gibson and Anthony Stokes are willing to give their international careers a crack again. It's worth remembering that Stokes is still only 24 and has a big season ahead of him for Celtic. He could prove a strong alternative to our current options, or he could disappear into the wilderness.

Given the step forward made by the IFA in employing Michael O'Neill, the FAI hiring Martin O'Neill could really negate a lot of the results of that appointment. I think the appointment of MON would have a strong impact on the current NI/ROI and IFA/FAI situation.

[tricky_colour]

I don't understand why he'd have an international job release clause that expires in the middle of an international campaign.



To make sure he didn't have to turn the job down?

[Irwin3]

- Joey O'Brien withdrew from the current squad so that he could play for his club and manage his treatment regime. Some question putting club over country. I'm well aware of his injury record thanks, it's you who appears to need to get a bit more clued up.


I don't understand why this misconception is still going. Trap had a provisional squad of 29, from which he had to cut 6. He chose to leave out O'Brien because he's managing an injury and because he probably wouldn't have made the final squad anyway. Nobody ever said he was injured, they said he was managing his injury.

The only one who appears to be confused is you. You've basically repeated what I said.

[Charlie Darwin]

The only one who appears to be confused is you. You've basically repeated what I said.
No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

[Irwin3]

No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

Have fun splitting hairs. He was named in the 29. Medical teams decided that he could do with the international break off to continue treatment. Manager says fine we have plenty of cover. Plays for West Ham the next day.

BTW I'm not having a go at Joey. I'm fine with him managing his serious injuries. But it is clearly a situation of club first.

[DannyInvincible]

No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

Besides, I don't think it would be fair on Joey O'Brien to imply he was unprofessional or uncommitted as a result of a desire to manage a long-term injury problem that has kept him out of the game for so long and nearly ended his career. He's lucky he's still playing any football at all. Naturally, he'd like to prolong his playing career and livelihood as best he can; that doesn't necessarily equate to putting club over country either. Very harsh to try and fault the lad for that.

[SwanVsDalton]

- Your whataboutery is your claiming that I whataboutered when my post was but a reflection of your post from the opposite side.

Oh no...


- I give up. It's clear as day what you said and how I responded.

Oh dear...


No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

Oh thank goodness. Sorry CD, you're tagging me out...*hops in taxi*

[Irwin3]

Oh no...



Oh dear...



Oh thank goodness. Sorry CD, you're tagging me out...*hops in taxi*

What a sad little man you are.

[Irwin3]

And here's the FAI statment Charlie.


Clarification on Joey O’Brien: Our medical teams were speaking prior to Joey’s withdrawal from the Irish squad. A decision was reached based on Joey’s serious knee injury sustained two years ago, and he requires treatment during the international window next week after a patellar tendon flare up. The manager has given his blessing to this as we have sufficient cover on this occasion. He may feature for his club tomorrow.

But no, he didn't withdraw...

[SwanVsDalton]

What a sad little man you are.

Just bantering, would rather take the sting out of this. After all I could tee off on you seemingly not reading what I wrote, but also having the discourtesy to misrepresent it (repeatedly) even though I went to pained lengths to spell it out.

But I'm just looking to get this thread back on track so everyone else can go back to talking Joey O'Brien or Trap's successor. So that's it. My money's on a Moyes/Fergie dream-team. Irwin3, you know what I'm taking about...

[Charlie Darwin]

And here's the FAI statment Charlie.



But no, he didn't withdraw...
If you'll bother to read the rest of the statement you've posted, you'll see that a decision was made by the management which O'Brien clearly agreed with. Are you seriously implying O'Brien put his club over his country?

[DannyInvincible]

Martin O'Neill has stated to Clive Woodward on 5Live (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/5live/5lspecials/5lspecials_20130912-2016a.mp3) that nobody has yet contacted him in relation to replacing Trap:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6delVESX2hg

Well, nobody from the "Irish FA" anyway. Maybe he's just being coy and someone from the FAI has gotten in touch...

[Irwin3]

Just bantering, would rather take the sting out of this. After all I could tee off on you seemingly not reading what I wrote, but also having the discourtesy to misrepresent it (repeatedly) even though I went to pained lengths to spell it out.

But I'm just looking to get this thread back on track so everyone else can go back to talking Joey O'Brien or Trap's successor. So that's it. My money's on a Moyes/Fergie dream-team. Irwin3, you know what I'm taking about...

You can't let it go. Nowhere have I misrepresented what you said. I explained it earlier with the parentheses.

You were saying that people thought he was ****e because of his performances but that by the same token that these performances helped him to get a move.


This despite Gibson's continued selection being held up by a section of support/media as an example of Trap's muppetry.

Moyes had to weigh it up carefully - you really don't think the consistent seal-of-approval from an international manager didn't feed into that?

[Irwin3]

If you'll bother to read the rest of the statement you've posted, you'll see that a decision was made by the management which O'Brien clearly agreed with. Are you seriously implying O'Brien put his club over his country?

Keep digging. The statement is in black and white. It agrees with my summation above. The medical teams made the decision and the manager gave his blessing since we had sufficient cover. It's very simple.

I'm not implying it, I've already stated it above. With his injury record, the fact that he has to protect his livelihood plus the fact that he isn't a starter, it was agreed by all parties that Joey could choose to withdraw from the squad, play for West Ham and receive his treatment during the break.