Trapattoni - who would you replace him with? [Archive] - Page 8

IsMiseSean

07/09/2013, 4:18 PM

I know that comment is half in jest, but we are never going to play free flowing football. We have no history in that regard and we don't have the players to engineer that style of play. I just hope for something more constructive and less predictable going forward. Despite his limitations as a club manager, I think O'Neill would be well suited to international football at this stage.

A little bit in jest yes... MON should be an improvement on results, morale & man management, but I wouldn't hold out much hope for a big change in style.

Stuttgart88

07/09/2013, 4:26 PM

I think MON is quite a direct manager alright but certainly not the prehistoric hoof and hope that we have played as plan A in the last 2 home games.

tricky_colour

07/09/2013, 5:25 PM

Ronald McDonald.

pineapple stu

07/09/2013, 5:41 PM

Klinsmann has done a good job with the US and they'll be at the World Cup and we won't.
If we had to play Antigua & Barbuda and Jamaica, we'd be at the World Cup too.

If the US had to play Germany and Sweden, they wouldn't be qualifying.

The US is a better team than Ireland right now and will only get better. Meanwhile we're going in the opposite direction.

Something to do with playing proper on the deck football (rather than hoof ball) I believe, but I could be wrong.
You could indeed. Do you think playing passing football automatically makes a team better? UCD should be one of the best teams in the world so.

And while we're at it, if we're looking for a place for young Irish talent to go instead of England (because our youngsters are either unwilling or unable to go to a country which doesn't speak English), let our lads go to the US. The standard is improving all the time in the US and is technically quite superior to the Championship in England.
Eh, no. I've been to an MLS game and I've been to a Championship game; the Championship was far superior. I've seen footage of other games in the leagues, and have read reports on them too. Yes, there's problems with coaching in England, but the MLS is not a better option.

mark12345

07/09/2013, 5:43 PM

A little bit in jest yes... MON should be an improvement on results, morale & man management, but I wouldn't hold out much hope for a big change in style.

Well if there's not going to be any change in style then I hope Martin doesn't apply, much as I like him. The Ireland team right now needs a massive attitude change enough to make us play the game properly (ie change from the hoof ball game which has got us absolutely nothing to the proper style. And if we have to make years of mistakes along the way then we have to make them, but change has to come).

1fortheTeam

07/09/2013, 5:53 PM

Well if there's not going to be any change in style then I hope Martin doesn't apply, much as I like him. The Ireland team right now needs a massive attitude change enough to make us play the game properly (ie change from the hoof ball game which has got us absolutely nothing to the proper style. And if we have to make years of mistakes along the way then we have to make them, but change has to come).fai should look at the cork scean aul and msl some right know it alls down here lol me id say chris hughton is the man .

mark12345

07/09/2013, 6:11 PM

If we had to play Antigua & Barbuda and Jamaica, we'd be at the World Cup too.

If the US had to play Germany and Sweden, they wouldn't be qualifying.

You could indeed. Do you think playing passing football automatically makes a team better? UCD should be one of the best teams in the world so.

Eh, no. I've been to an MLS game and I've been to a Championship game; the Championship was far superior. I've seen footage of other games in the leagues, and have read reports on them too. Yes, there's problems with coaching in England, but the MLS is not a better option.

With regard to antigua, barbuda and jamaica, point taken. Although you should have revved up the caliber of opposition to include Mexico, Costa Rica and Honduras. As I say, point taken they are not playing Germany or Sweden, but Mexico and Costa Rica are decent opposition, the type we would struggle with. The larger point is that if the US were to meet Germany or Sweden in the World Cup they would fare out better than us. Wouldn't expect them to beat Germany any year soon, but in 20 years they will be able to challenge them. And where will we be?

As far as playing passing football - no it does'nt make a team better. But if you can pass the ball then you're well on you're way to playing a constructive passing game - that is keeping the ball away from the other team and having them chase you ad nauseum so that they're afraid to surrender possession. That type of expertise is achieved through practice, and it is obvious that Trap has spent very little time on that in practice.

Regarding the MLS standard, it may not have the thrills and media spotlights that the English game does, but it is quite superior to the Championship. If you doubt this, look at those English players who have gone to play in MLS. They did ok but generally faded away into unspectacular oblivion. And there were one or two Irish (LOI) players who made the trip but they were even worse. The one success story from an Irish point of view was Paul Keegan, an Irish kid who benefitted from copious US coaching.

Charlie Darwin

07/09/2013, 6:36 PM

Regarding the MLS standard, it may not have the thrills and media spotlights that the English game does, but it is quite superior to the Championship. If you doubt this, look at those English players who have gone to play in MLS. They did ok but generally faded away into unspectacular oblivion.
I've read this over and over and I'm struggling to find the logic.

pineapple stu

07/09/2013, 6:53 PM

With regard to antigua, barbuda and jamaica, point taken. Although you should have revved up the caliber of opposition to include Mexico, Costa Rica and Honduras.
Costa Rica and Honduras - still meh. I've nothing against either - I've a soft spot for Costa Rica since they were one of the random teams at the 1990 World Cup, my first - but as qualifying goes, that's still an easy group. Honduras and Costa Rica have gotten one point between them at the last two World Cups, for example.

As far as playing passing football - no it doesn't make a team better. But if you can pass the ball then you're well on you're way to playing a constructive passing game - that is keeping the ball away from the other team and having them chase you ad nauseum so that they're afraid to surrender possession.
Don't agree with this. Yes, we all like to see a passing team, but it's almost a truism these days that it's the best - indeed, only - way to play. Not true. There's absolutely a place for a long-ball team, for a rough-and-ready team, for other styles. Different styles suit different teams, and that makes football more interesting than if every team played the same way. Playing passing football doesn't automatically make a team better; that's a remarkably simplistic take on the game.

If you doubt this, look at those English players who have gone to play in MLS. They did ok but generally faded away into unspectacular oblivion. And there were one or two Irish (LOI) players who made the trip but they were even worse. The one success story from an Irish point of view was Paul Keegan, an Irish kid who benefitted from copious US coaching.
Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_MLS_players#England) a list of English players who've played MLS. The reason most of them faded away is either (a) they were mid-30s and winding down their careers when they moved or (b) they were mundane pros anyway, for whom the MLS was their level. There's not one player there who backs up your claim that the MLS is better than the Championship (which it's simply not)

And are you trying to claim this Paul Keegan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Keegan_(footballer_born_1972)) is an example of what the MLS can do for Irish football? How we aspire to having players of that calibre in the national team!

Crosby87

07/09/2013, 7:43 PM

I just sent Hans Dieter Flick an email asking if he would possibly be interested in being the head man in Ireland. Let's see if i hear back.
He's got a hot wife too. (Which i didn't mention.)
Help me gain some traction on getting a German to straighten things out here. That means you Pineapples.

DannyInvincible

07/09/2013, 9:49 PM

what about Steve Mcclaren he has international experience?
:D;)

Does he do a convincing brogue?

To be honest, in the rush to get shut of Trap (who has outstayed his welcome) I think we’re overlooking an even more important appointment.

A team psychologist.

I'm surprised the FAI don't already have sports psychologists working with the squad behind the scenes. It's something I'd just assumed would be all part and parcel of modern-day match preparation. It it actually uncommon for international sides to involve psychologists?

Well if there's not going to be any change in style then I hope Martin doesn't apply, much as I like him. The Ireland team right now needs a massive attitude change enough to make us play the game properly (ie change from the hoof ball game which has got us absolutely nothing to the proper style. And if we have to make years of mistakes along the way then we have to make them, but change has to come).

I do believe change is required and think Trap's game is up. Last night was like a game of ping-pong and terribly frustrating to endure. Even our own goal came as a bit of a surprise; as a result of a defensive error of which Robbie was able to take advantage. I can't think of another decent chance even created by us. In fairness, however, it still must be remembered that Trap's system did get us to the Euros and a World Cup play-off. I think Trap is owed respect for that at least. The booing that rang around the ground after the game last night didn't impress me.

OwlsFan

07/09/2013, 9:56 PM

Love Mick to death. He has done a lot for Irish football. But too many memories of us playing the long ball doesn't bode well for a future with him as manager.

I've seen Martin O'Neill mentioned here. Great choice. I've also seen Roy Keane's name mentioned here. Could the two work together? Two Brian Clough disciples. What a team we would have. If that didn't work out .....

IF that didn't work out!!? Roy Keane working with Martin O'Neill!! What planet do you inhabit?

In case people didn't notice, the Swedes hoofed the ball out from their goalkeeper as much as we did. The difference was they were slightly more constructive when the ball bounced their way and they had Ibrahimovic.

"Free flowing football" - can't wait to see John O'Shea and Richard Dunne playing it out from the back like Franz Beckenbauer. These continentals won't know what's hit them.

DannyInvincible

07/09/2013, 10:03 PM

In case people didn't notice, the Swedes hoofed the ball out from their goalkeeper as much as we did.

I was convinced that neither team actually wanted the ball at one point.

jinxy lilywhite

07/09/2013, 10:10 PM

Trappatoni is a clown and should of been fired after the humiliation of losing to Germany last November.

don't care who we bring in but we need a manager who can pick the best possible team available to play for their country and not players who he believes fit a system that is absolutely broken and doesn't work.

Jolly Red Giant

07/09/2013, 10:51 PM

Guus Hiddink
FAI couldn't afford him

and Renee Meulensteen[/QUOTE]
Manager of Anzhi

id say chris hughton is the man .
Not a hope of getting a Premier League manager

I wanted Arie Haan to get the job five years ago and would still like to see him getting a shot at it. He is a bit of a nut case but we'd have a lot of fun watching the team.

Looking for someone with pedigree -
Marcelo Bielsa

Or someone with a lot of potential -
Morten Wieghorst

geysir

07/09/2013, 11:38 PM

IF that didn't work out!!? Roy Keane working with Martin O'Neill!! What planet do you inhabit?

In case people didn't notice, the Swedes hoofed the ball out from their goalkeeper as much as we did. The difference was they were slightly more constructive when the ball bounced their way and they had Ibrahimovic.

"Free flowing football" - can't wait to see John O'Shea and Richard Dunne playing it out from the back like Franz Beckenbauer. These continentals won't know what's hit them.
I don't doubt your fandom Owls, but you sell Ireland short with that analysis. Hustle, bluster and chaos is what we offered from the first to the 90th min. Sweden handled our game once they went ahead. It's not as if Zlatan was back in their defence saving the day with a flurry of last ditch tackles.

Where do you think we rank in Europe, seeing as we can't beat Austria at home and get beat by Sweden? I'd say that puts us as a 4th seeded team in the groups.
That means we wouldn't even qualify for the extended euros in 2016 and it would be easier to qualify for them than not qualify.

tricky_colour

08/09/2013, 2:45 AM

Let's face it the answer is is staring us in the face.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/04/article-1233223-0423CA210000044D-239_468x342.jpg

gastric

08/09/2013, 6:00 AM

Let's face it the answer is is staring us in the face.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/04/article-1233223-0423CA210000044D-239_468x342.jpg

So, Roy and Trigger McAteer to take over!

gastric

08/09/2013, 8:14 AM

pineapple stu

08/09/2013, 9:54 AM

I can't think of another decent chance even created by us.
That's a bit harsh. In the first 25 minutes, we had that first-minute shot blocked away for a corner, we had two shots from Whelan which were very nicely worked and which were very badly executed when he was perfectly positioned and we had Long's chance when he got into a good position on the edge of the box and pulled a muscle.

No, in the first 25 minutes, we had a fair few chances and we were generally better almost to the point of dominant. Why we collapsed after going 1-0 up - as so often happens - is the real question.

bennocelt

08/09/2013, 10:17 AM

I do believe change is required and think Trap's game is up. Last night was like a game of ping-pong and terribly frustrating to endure. Even our own goal came as a bit of a surprise; as a result of a defensive error of which Robbie was able to take advantage. I can't think of another decent chance even created by us. In fairness, however, it still must be remembered that Trap's system did get us to the Euros and a World Cup play-off. I think Trap is owed respect for that at least. The booing that rang around the ground after the game last night didn't impress me.

Were you one of the few that were trying to get the Fields of Athenry going just before the end of the game! That was worse!

peadar1987

08/09/2013, 10:52 AM

Were you one of the few that were trying to get the Fields of Athenry going just before the end of the game! That was worse!

Yep, the surest way to get the players to give their all for the fans is definitely to demonstrate that you hate them.

peadar1987

08/09/2013, 10:53 AM

Let's face it the answer is is staring us in the face.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/04/article-1233223-0423CA210000044D-239_468x342.jpg

I think I'd prefer the dogs to that bell-end!

Drumcondra 69er

08/09/2013, 11:26 AM

That's a bit harsh. In the first 25 minutes, we had that first-minute shot blocked away for a corner, we had two shots from Whelan which were very nicely worked and which were very badly executed when he was perfectly positioned and we had Long's chance when he got into a good position on the edge of the box and pulled a muscle.

No, in the first 25 minutes, we had a fair few chances and we were generally better almost to the point of dominant. Why we collapsed after going 1-0 up - as so often happens - is the real question.

We're incapable of holding a lead. We don' have the Italian culture or mentality to shut up shop and play catenaccio and we don't have the nous (or possibly the freedom) to build on it. We get caught between 2 stools and seem to panic leading to letting the opposition back in the game.

bennocelt

08/09/2013, 11:37 AM

Yep, the surest way to get the players to give their all for the fans is definitely to demonstrate that you hate them.

Or applaud them off the field, "well done boys". Maybe thats why we never will win anything in football, we except such mediocrity!:rolleyes:

ArdeeBhoy

08/09/2013, 11:54 AM

See if you can spot the foot.ie posters on here...And WSC think this MB is of a 'lower class' and they are superior FFS.
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/833444-delaney-out

:rolleyes:

DannyInvincible

08/09/2013, 12:36 PM

Were you one of the few that were trying to get the Fields of Athenry going just before the end of the game! That was worse!

I wasn't so submissive so as to launch into a resigned rendition of that with minutes still to go either, but booing my own team after a game just isn't something that sits comfortably with me, unless the team have actually shown a complete contempt for the jersey, which wasn't the case on Friday night. I reciprocated Richard Dunne's applauding of the support when he made his way towards the supporters after the game and had some chap making his exit reproaching me and pulling at my arms. It's not as if the players weren't hurting also - I don't think their effort can be questioned - and the last thing I was doing was applauding Trap's tactical approach.

Eminence Grise

08/09/2013, 1:00 PM

Let's face it the answer is is staring us in the face.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/12/04/article-1233223-0423CA210000044D-239_468x342.jpg

I recognise Keane and Paul McShane, but I haven't a clue who that is on the right.

DannyInvincible

08/09/2013, 2:05 PM

Good article about Trap by Dion Fanning which is a summary of much of what has been said on the Ireland -Sweden thread. He mentions some of the usual suspects as a replacement - O'Neill and Keane , but also, Muelensteen, Fergie's old assistant which is one out of the box. Who ever takes over needs to trust the players and work to our strengths and not work to a plan which the players have lost trust in quite a while ago.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/dion-fanning-time-for-a-radical-overhaul-29561561.html

I do think the appointment of O'Neill would recapture the wider public's imagination and good will. There's been a real lack of national buzz surrounding the team throughout Trap's reign, although the state in which his predecessor had left us probably didn't help matters from the outset either. O'Neill is a universally-popular figure throughout Ireland and also happens to be a very competent manager. He'd be my preference if we're going to go with an Irishman.

Does Ren� Meulensteen have much of a managerial track record?

Would the FAI really go near Roy Keane? On the other hand, I can't envisage Keane entertaining the FAI either. Fanning claims Keane "would be interested in the job"; has Keane indicated it would interest him or is Fanning merely speculating?

Crosby87

08/09/2013, 2:19 PM

I'm surprised there are no jokes about Roy leaving before the Sweden game due to bacon sandwiches.

ArdeeBhoy

08/09/2013, 2:35 PM

??
Why?

DannyInvincible

08/09/2013, 2:42 PM

I'm surprised there are no jokes about Roy leaving before the Sweden game due to bacon sandwiches.

Leaving where before the Sweden game?

peadar1987

08/09/2013, 5:36 PM

Or applaud them off the field, "well done boys". Maybe thats why we never will win anything in football, we except such mediocrity!:rolleyes:

We'll never win anything in football because of the whole set-up of our youth structure, which is the epitome of the win-at-all-costs-or-you'll-be-booed-off-the-field culture prevalent in the British and Irish game.

The Fly

08/09/2013, 6:58 PM

We'll never win anything in football because of the whole set-up of our youth structure...

I'm gonna stick my neck out and put it down to Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy etc...;)

liamoo11

08/09/2013, 8:11 PM

any chance dave o leary would do a god job?

Grafter

08/09/2013, 8:15 PM

any chance dave o leary would do a god job?

Methinks not. O' Neill was a bit of a busted flush in last days at Sunderland.... John Giles always said Roy Keane was made for international football management because players get him in short, sharp doses and then he's out of their immediate live again.

ArdeeBhoy

08/09/2013, 8:24 PM

Er, a complete bottle merchant?

No thanks...

Eminence Grise

08/09/2013, 10:06 PM

any chance dave o leary would do a god job?

Well, some might say he already thinks's he's God...

I couldn't see him serving up the turgid excuse for football that Trap has been slopping up for the last few years. Given the mediocre CVs the FAI can expect to receive when Trap goes, he'd be no worse than most.

gastric

08/09/2013, 10:23 PM

I'm gonna stick my neck out and put it down to Spain, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, Italy etc...;)

On that one, watched Brazil play with Australia at the weekend and win 6-0. The Aussies are a bit like us, energetic and a bit ordinary on the technical front, but the Brazilians out ran them and outplayed them. Their technical ability and creativity were a joy to watch. They will win the World Cup on this present form and recently beat Spain 3-0.

mark12345

08/09/2013, 10:50 PM

boovidge

08/09/2013, 11:06 PM

An article in the Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2415476/Martin-ONeill-installed-favourite-replace-Giovanni-Trapattoni-Ireland-manager.html) which adds very little of substance. Basically O'Neill is favourite and there are some others in the mix. Quinn says we're going to be in the doldrums for a bit and that we need to prepare our players better before we ship them off to England.

DannyInvincible

08/09/2013, 11:16 PM

Why the presumption that our players have to be shipped off to England?

Charlie Darwin

08/09/2013, 11:17 PM

Quinn's attitude is pretty telling. It's all focused on preparing players for England. There's no school of thought that we should be developing players who could succeed anywhere, no suggestion we should be developing players like Kevin Doyle who can grow up with their family around them, with the support to develop their skills and have the attributes to succeed in any European league. It's all about giving them technical skills so they can move to England as a teenager and hopefully grow up as men within that system. It's the type of short-sighted approach that has stunted Irish football for decades. We don't produce men, we produce products for English clubs.

Grafter

08/09/2013, 11:20 PM

Quinn says we're going to be in the doldrums for a bit and that we need to prepare our players better before we ship them off to England.

FFS! When are we not in the doldrums? We're there permanently anyways! I love the psychic powers of all these ex-players - they really should be mediums solving future crimes!

DannyInvincible

08/09/2013, 11:48 PM

Quinn's attitude is pretty telling. It's all focused on preparing players for England.

I know they have personal interest or involvement in particular English clubs, but it was still a bit surreal watching Quinn and Darragh MacAnthony - two Irishmen - referring to "we" and "us" in relation to the general transfer dealings English football clubs on SSN's transfer deadline day broadcast last week.

ArdeeBhoy

08/09/2013, 11:52 PM

Grafter

08/09/2013, 11:56 PM

I know they have personal interest or involvement in particular English clubs, but it was still a bit surreal watching Quinn and Darragh MacAnthony - two Irishmen - referring to "we" and "us" in relation to the general transfer dealings English football clubs on SSN's transfer deadline day broadcast last week.

MacAnthony was good telly I have to say, in terms of Quinn and Sky Sports, I'm still haunted by visiting a friend's house at half time during UEFA Super Cup to see Niall on my mate's widescreen tv with his wide legs apart making it impossible to avoid viewing his eh..."zipper area".

Charlie Darwin

09/09/2013, 12:17 AM

Tbf they both work and operate within the English game.

Irish domestic football is barely solvent, if at all. Short of 25 sugar-daddies, they're not going to have the money to pay our top players...
Unless of course they all turn out to be of a very low standard compared to now.
It's not barely solvent. Most clubs make money. They're in better financial health than the average English or Scottish club and without TV money. They do so without the help of a national association that promotes football in the country or a domestic population that likes live football. They do so because they've experienced the worst of financial excess and adjusted to face the reality, but they are properly run now.