Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[bishbash]

At Celtic he often played with 3 centre backs. He had the likes of Didier Agathe as right wing Back who was a limited footballer but absolutely rapid. As stated he does like wingers or wing backs who get forward. On occasions he played Sutton at centre back and centre mid. He could be brilliant for the likes of Ciaran Clark and really bring him on.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Another somewhat warped view?
http://sportiseverything.com/2013/09/11/case-keano/

[rebelmusic]

The one thing about MON is it might genuinely get the conversation going again about an All Ireland team which he was always a massive advocate of. Don't want to open a can of worms here but it would be great to have a calm debate on that in the media over the next couple of years.

[geysir]

The one thing about MON is it might genuinely get the conversation going again about an All Ireland team which he was always a massive advocate of. Don't want to open a can of worms here but it would be great to have a calm debate on that in the media over the next couple of years.
I doubt if MON (the original), would encourage such debate, in the context of him being the our manager.
And if there is to be some debate, I'd say definitely our manager and players should not be involved in it

On his football acumen. The straight/direct football tag, while he was at Celtic, is overused. Tactics were varied but often enough against packed defences in the SPL, with the pressure firmly on to win every game, the battering ram approach was used to get that 90th minute winner. Though he inherited most of his Celtic players, who had what you'd call exceptional ability, Lambert, Petrov, Larsson and 2 seasons each from Moravcik and Petta.
Nevertheless, those were the players who were a large part of the lynchpin. He didn't replace a talented player with a donkey. The tag that defined an O'Neill team, was a character that didn't give up when the chips were stacked.
Overall his stint with Sunderland was poor, he didn't effect an improvement.That might be a tell, relating to MON's outdated redundant football vision or it might be just an accumulation of events, a donkey club, wasters like Johnson, injuries to Fletcher, etc. and MON didn't have the answers.

I haven't got a clue how he would do with our squad. I like the character but it's not a personality contest.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Celtic was pretty much the right club at the right time...
Ireland perhaps less so, we'll see if he gets the gig first.

[DannyInvincible]

The one thing about MON is it might genuinely get the conversation going again about an All Ireland team which he was always a massive advocate of. Don't want to open a can of worms here but it would be great to have a calm debate on that in the media over the next couple of years.

It pops up in the media and in political circles every now and again, but it's naturally a very one-sided "debate". I'm not sure why O'Neill being appointed our manager should make any difference, nor do I see why he'd even entertain the bother of acting mouthpiece for any unity campaign. He's always struck me as being a very diplomatic and thoughtful figure.

Assuming it would be legally viable for the sake of debate, how are you going to convince the IFA and their fans to join forces with an entity with which they don't identify in the slightest? In fact, many NI fans, although certainly not all, would possess an animosity towards us for various reasons, be that due to pure bigotry or due to a paranoid perception that we're actively operating to see the back of them by poaching "their" players and stoking up sectarian tensions in the north or whatever. From this perspective, they further interpret proposals for a single all-Ireland team as needlessly provocative trolling when they can see that we already have a de facto all-island team.

What would we make of calls to join an all-"British Isles" team? We'd roll our eyes and assume that anyone forwarding such a proposal was on a wind-up. The "conversation" would stop there. Would we even be happy to accept and establish a single all-island team under the auspices of the IFA and governed from Belfast, with our records, identity and symbols banished to the history books?

[DannyInvincible]

And if there is to be some debate, I'd say definitely our manager and players should not be involved in it

I think McClean should be involved. Nothing could go wrong there. Absolutely nothing.

[IsMiseSean]

Martin O'Neill is available but for a reason (http://www.independent.ie/sport/george-byrne-martin-oneill-is-available-but-for-a-reason-29579379.html)

The poor man hasn't even been offered the job yet and the knives are out....

[youngirish]

I'd be very happy with O'Neill. Of the realistic candidates he is a far better manager than Keane, McCarthy or Coyle are ever likely to be. McDermott and Hughton have ruled themselves out and O'Leary I think would antagonise the media and fans very quickly, particularly if results were bad. Only issue I can see is that I think we are in for more years of direct, unattractive football and I was hoping I'd seen the back of that approach for a while after Trapattoni and Kerr. I'm not sure the Staunton era had any consistent approach to playing football, positive, negative or otherwise so I can't comment too much in that regards.

[Crosby87]

I like that he used the word "Equanimity" in the comments in the Irish Times.

[Fergie's Son]

The reality is that he is likely the best choice unless the FAI take a gamble on some no name continental.

[DannyInvincible]

Martin O'Neill is available but for a reason (http://www.independent.ie/sport/george-byrne-martin-oneill-is-available-but-for-a-reason-29579379.html)

The poor man hasn't even been offered the job yet and the knives are out....

The first three paragraphs are overly-negative, melodramatic nonsense.


Well, at least that particular farce is over. With the departure of Giovanni Trapattoni and his team the reign of error that has been glaringly obvious over the past couple of years has finally come to an end.

Another manager would have torn up his contract and walked after the embarrassment inflicted on the Republic of Ireland at Euro 2012. But no, another 15 months of torture lay in store.

Trapattoni may feel that he did “a great job” – oh yes, Ireland down to 59th in the FIFA rankings, our worst placing since the listings began in the early 1990s.

"Reign of error"? Trap's reign might have been frustrating viewing at times, especially its latter half, but I don't think it could be said that it was riddled with error? To expect him to have torn up his contract after the Euros is simply an unrealistic knee-jerk expectation coloured, no doubt, by hindsight and the year that followed. His system was exposed as ineffectual against the big boys but his getting us to Poland in the first place must be commended. Nobody's saying our current situation or ranking of 59th is indicative of a "great job", but neither does it cancel out Trap's earlier successes and the positives he brought to the team.


Mille grazie, Giovanni – but if, as most people are suggesting, Martin O'Neill gets the job, then I fear we're in for another torrid time.

The argument goes that O'Neill is available and, yes, that's true, but he's available for a reason. His last tenure at Sunderland didn't go well at all.

For starters he didn't move to the area (sound familiar?) and, according to an interview with Sunderland's fanzine editor last Thursday his tactics were “stagnant, boring and predictable” (hmm).

As was the case with previous gigs at Leicester City, Celtic and Aston Villa, O’Neill was reluctant to bring young players through the ranks (Hang on a minute). Plus ca change, as Thierry Henry might say.

O'Neill is as old school in his footballing ways as Trap. If he gets the gig we can expect to see a lot more pigeon endangerment and a raft of handy caps for Conor Sammon – yippie-do.

International management won't require O'Neill to move to Dublin, so that's a pointless criticism. And this guy's obviously done his research, basing his verdict of O'Neill on the opinion of the editor of a Sunderland fanzine last Thursday...

As for the dig at Trap relating to ignoring fresh faces and failing to effect genuine change, I'm pretty sure Trap's record of capping new faces was much the same as, if not superior to, certain previous managers. Has anyone got any stats on that? If I recall, someone did post the stats on the forum somewhere before, but I've no idea where now.

Is O'Neill genuinely known for ignoring youth? I'm not sure myself as I've not followed his career to such a degree. I do know he had no qualms with bringing McClean in after Steve Bruce had him playing in the reserves.

Anyway, who does Byrne propose as a viable and more worthwhile alternative?... Nobody. :rolleyes:

[tetsujin1979]

As for the dig at Trap relating to ignoring fresh faces and failing to effect genuine change, I'm pretty sure Trap's record of capping new faces was much the same as, if not superior to, certain previous managers. Has anyone got any stats on that? If I recall, someone did post the stats on the forum somewhere before, but I've no idea where now.
I posted this a while back, is it what you mean: http://foot.ie/threads/124532-Trapattonti-s-lack-of-experimentation
I'm actually updating it at the moment, so I'll have the complete list in the next day or so

[DannyInvincible]

That's the post. Cheers, tets!

[Stuttgart88]

Trap definitely did introduce new faces, contrary to what was perceived at the time. The problem was which new faces he appreciated and which ones he didn't!

Didn't young payers like McGeady, Maloney, Miller and Marshall get introduced by O'Neill at Celtic?

[SolitudeRed]

Have there been no foreign managers mentioned as being in contention for this job in the press? how about Pulis he is out of work too :rolleyes:

[Deckydee]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/oneill-in-a-onehorse-race-29580360.html

Who is Hector Cuper?

[pineapple stu]

I note that the Indo doesn't say that Cuper is available - but for a reason. Instead, they note that he has Irish grandparents, by gum. Never mind that if that's important, Martin O'Neill is Irish. The Indo really is drivel.

It's an interesting name, even if his wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9ctor_C%C3%BAper) does seem to mention more than once that he got the sack for leaving teams in poor positions in the league -


Inter under his command infamously lost what could have been the club's first scudetto since 1989[...]He was fired from the club after six matches of the 2003–04 season, when the team was in 8th place in Serie A.

Suffering bad results in spite of his many signings, Cúper decided to leave [Mallorca] in February 2006, with the team at the bottom of the league.

He started the 2007–08 season at the helm of Real Betis, but was sacked on 2 December 2007

On 11 March 2008 he was unveiled as the new boss of relegation-battling Serie A team Parma[...]He was then sacked two months later

On 1 August 2008, Cúper became the head coach of the Georgia national team. But due to his failure to win a single match as Georgia's head coach, he didn't prolong the contract when it expired in December 2009.

On 29 June 2011 Cúper moved to Racing Santander signing for one season. However, after five months he resigned from his position due to the poor performance of the team, which was placed at the bottom in La Liga.

Had a good spell at Valencia obviously, and seems to have done ok at Aris and Orduspor. But I wonder looking at that if he's made a career from those three European finals - Mallorca in 1998 and Valencia in 1999 and 2000? They're a fair while back now.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It says who he is in the article!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9ctor_C%C3%BAper

[Spudulika]

The old Indo die/blowhards are continuing their predictable and ordered rant against all things DOB. Don't for a moment think that anything has to do with proper journalism. It is a shameful publication and I'm just glad I've stopped reading since they dreamed up a lie before the Faeroes match and tried to spin it off as journalism. There are writers on the paper who are good, decent people, but the editorial stance has gone too far along the Fleet street line to be rescued.

Cuper......christ.

[TonyD]

Martin O'Neill is available but for a reason (http://www.independent.ie/sport/george-byrne-martin-oneill-is-available-but-for-a-reason-29579379.html)

The poor man hasn't even been offered the job yet and the knives are out....

Yeah, but in fairness, it is George Byrne. And since when has his opinion ever been worth anything. I particularly like him dismissing the Scotish league as "mickey mouse". This coming from an alleged Shamrock Rovers fan.

(Not a Trap fan, or a Celtic one either - just in case anyones asking)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, never been an Indo' fan (generally a 'blueshirt' rag) but some of the soccer writers surprised me recently with their coherence and analysis of various pieces on the national team...
Dion Fanning et al.

[bennocelt]

The old Indo die/blowhards are continuing their predictable and ordered rant against all things DOB. Don't for a moment think that anything has to do with proper journalism. It is a shameful publication and I'm just glad I've stopped reading since they dreamed up a lie before the Faeroes match and tried to spin it off as journalism. There are writers on the paper who are good, decent people, but the editorial stance has gone too far along the Fleet street line to be rescued.

Cuper......christ.

The renowned football writer Barry Egan is interviewing John Delaney in an exclusive, Christ on a bike! Must have met him out on the lash.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Delaney is something of a clown, but tbf is a good communicator for all his other faults and is amenable to speaking to all and sundry.
Even if much of it is vacuous nonsense.

[Grafter]

The renowned football writer Barry Egan is interviewing John Delaney in an exclusive, Christ on a bike! Must have met him out on the lash.

Bazza truly is something else....!

The Sindo is basically for fellas in their 60's who aren't IT literate to oogle young wans in lingerie old enough to be their granddaughters while their wives are cooking Sunday dinner:rolleyes:

[youngirish]

I see certain bookies have O'Neill at 1/32 now to be the next manager. Surely they can't be that wrong?

[pineapple stu]

1/32 eh?

How appropriate.

[Spudulika]

Tbf, never been an Indo' fan (generally a 'blueshirt' rag) but some of the soccer writers surprised me recently with their coherence and analysis of various pieces on the national team...
Dion Fanning et al.

Sounds suspicious. They have decent writers, but unless there has been a complete sea change and they are writing about actual events instead of inventing them, as they did with egg on face circumstances before the Thorshavn game, I think you're being extremely kind. If what Georgio Byrneo has written is indicative of this, then I think you're being kind beyond bias.

As a mainstream public we get the mainstream media we deserve. Clowns given prime Friday and Saturday night tv gigs, paid for hate-o-mercials by the Indo and politicians destroying the country generation after generation.

Bring back Jack!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Bring back Jack!

Lynch??
;)

[Charlie Darwin]

The Indo regularly jump the shark, but with the Barry Egan interview I think they may have jumped an entire school. Everybody in entertainment knows that if you want a softball interview and a shoulder massage, you call Barry Egan, but this is something else entirely. Three hours?!

The O'Neill attack-piece is almost as baffling. The Indo are so eager to bash the next Denis O'Brien-sponsored appointment they haven't even bothered to wait to find out who it is. Expect 2-4 years of articles from the likes of David Kelly and Dion Fanning decrying the fact we could have had the tiki-taka of Hector Cuper but instead FAI politics led them to plump for Martin O'Neill, a manager so unadventurous and old-school he doesn't even trust our players to play football, etc.

[geysir]

O'Neill is at 1/6
Tricky will probably make his move before the evening curfew on bets.

[Charlie Darwin]

The Indo regularly jump the shark, but with the Barry Egan interview I think they may have jumped an entire school. Everybody in entertainment knows that if you want a softball interview and a shoulder massage, you call Barry Egan, but this is something else entirely. Three hours?!

The O'Neill attack-piece is almost as baffling. The Indo are so eager to bash the next Denis O'Brien-sponsored appointment they haven't even bothered to wait to find out who it is. Expect 2-4 years of articles from the likes of David Kelly and Dion Fanning decrying the fact we could have had the tiki-taka of Hector Cuper but instead FAI politics led them to plump for Martin O'Neill, a manager so unadventurous and old-school he doesn't even trust our players to play football, etc.
A cold thought just hit me. If O'Neill does get the job and hang on until 2018, we will have endured a full decade of the same 5 journalists writing the same article every week. What was it Vincent Browne said about a gun and a bottle of whiskey?

[bennocelt]

Delaney is something of a clown, but tbf is a good communicator for all his other faults and is amenable to speaking to all and sundry.
Even if much of it is vacuous nonsense.


except bout the FAI finances?!:p

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, did say much of it is nonsense. Anyway, blame the rest of the FAI for allowing JD to continue regardless...

[bennocelt]

Well, did say much of it is nonsense. Anyway, blame the rest of the FAI for allowing JD to continue regardless...

Some fans were chanting his name from the stands as well, ha

[ArdeeBhoy]

Think much of that was largely sarcastic...

[Grafter]

The Indo regularly jump the shark, but with the Barry Egan interview I think they may have jumped an entire school. Everybody in entertainment knows that if you want a softball interview and a shoulder massage, you call Barry Egan, but this is something else entirely. Three hours?!

The O'Neill attack-piece is almost as baffling. The Indo are so eager to bash the next Denis O'Brien-sponsored appointment they haven't even bothered to wait to find out who it is. Expect 2-4 years of articles from the likes of David Kelly and Dion Fanning decrying the fact we could have had the tiki-taka of Hector Cuper but instead FAI politics led them to plump for Martin O'Neill, a manager so unadventurous and old-school he doesn't even trust our players to play football, etc.

Here's my theory as to why Barry Egan did interview...

Wasn't Delaney out of country post Vienna, probably at some overseas Irish celeb wedding that Egan was at....???

Anyways whatever the reason, Bazza's football reporting continues next week when he interviews "Irish Singing Sensation" Carol Anthony about nabbing married former Welsh footballing beefcake heartthrob Ian Rush.... :rolleyes:

[Charlie Darwin]

Here's my theory as to why Barry Egan did interview...

Wasn't Delaney out of country post Vienna, probably at some overseas Irish celeb wedding that Egan was at....???

Anyways whatever the reason, Bazza's football reporting continues next week when he interviews "Irish Singing Sensation" Carol Anthony about nabbing married former Welsh footballing beefcake heartthrob Ian Rush.... :rolleyes:
Unless it was your one who slaughtered the national anthem before the Sweden match, I don't think Barry and John quite run in the same circles, but you never know.

[DannyInvincible]

Yeah, but in fairness, it is George Byrne. And since when has his opinion ever been worth anything. I particularly like him dismissing the Scotish league as "mickey mouse".

Even if it were such a league, O'Neill's successes at Celtic weren't limited to domestic Scottish football. Celtic did very well in Europe under him.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Reasonably so.

WGS & even NL have done as well in CL terms.

[gastric]

Even if it were such a league, O'Neill's successes at Celtic weren't limited to domestic Scottish football. Celtic did very well in Europe under him.

Not a bad article on O'Neill urging that the FAI broaden their horizons and look at other options. Kelly's summary of O'Neill's career is good I feel, his comments on his time at Sunderland mirror my own, and I hope if appointed, he adopts a more flexible approach to tactics than Trap did.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/david-kelly-fai-should-recognise-oneill-isnt-only-option-29582194.html

[tetsujin1979]

Kelly's article seems to start out saying O'Neill isn't the only option available, then gives reasons why he's the best option, and then mentions some names right at the very end, but doesn't mention why they are options.

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness I think that's a decent article. He also forgot to mention that, as Geysir pointed out, a swift appointment would deprive us of months of speculation and debate on foot.ie. This should be a serious consideration. I know for a fact that at least 6 of us are season ticket holders.

I think MON, Keane and Mick all have positives and negatives but I'd be happy with any of them. I think Cuper would be riskier.

Despite MON having some ticks in the debit column I think on balance he can bring a lot to the job. I see no harm in acting decisively and I think it'll be useful for him to have 2 games up close to form an early opinion of what the task ahead is like.

Just one point about MON: the UEFA 2003 campaign was indeed a great success, but it only came about because Celtic had a horror show against Basel in the CL qualifier!

[Crosby87]

Has any Men's international team ever been managed by a female? The Irish are always breaking boundaries, why not hire a chick?
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOOli_sjAxu7-E_6IjixMlfwlJy-ibwICKxysEKXZu9PG4ZYOT

[Charlie Darwin]

If we wanted to break boundaries we could start by not calling them "chick"

[DannyInvincible]

Just one point about MON: the UEFA 2003 campaign was indeed a great success, but it only came about because Celtic had a horror show against Basel in the CL qualifier!

And we must not forget that the UEFA Cup was such a mickey-mouse competition, UEFA had to rebrand it as the Europa League. :p

[DeLorean]

I wouldn't mind, at least when it was called the UEFA Cup it could still be confused for the decent competition it once was... the Europa League branding only serves to highlight it's inferiority compared to the Champions League.

[DannyInvincible]

Which Irish players have played under O'Neill?

I can think of O'Shea, McClean, Westwood, Dunne, Ireland... Any others?

[ArdeeBhoy]

McGeady!

And Ciaran Clark.

[Stuttgart88]

Meyler?