Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[Dunners]

----------Westwood---------

---O'Shea---Dunne---Clark---
Coleman-------------McGeady

----McCarthy------Gibson----
----------Ireland----------

-------Long-----Stokes-------

[mark12345]

Gus Poyet anyone?

Would like to see Martin O'Neill get it but would be absolutely delighted if Poyet ended up in the seat. Good choice, I didn't even think of him.
Poyet is Uruguayan and Uruguay are now my role model team in international football. Population 3.5 million like us, football standard.........eh not like us. But if we have a team to aspire to it should be Uruguay. Anyone see their recent game against very highly fancied Colombia, whom they beat.

Last word on Trap. Hoolahan, Brady, Ireland, Reid, Stokes, Gibson was an awful lot of talent to leave on the bench (or far from the bench as the case was). I know the latter four all had their various mis steps with the manager, but when you have a team which is not made up of Ronaldo's and Messi's, as he readily admitted himself, then you have to go cap in hand to your creative players. He was nothing if not stubborn (Glen Whelan) was Trap. Had he lightened up a bit and call the other lads back it might have been a different story.

[jbyrne]

Ireland, Reid, Stokes, Gibson was an awful lot of talent to leave on the bench (or far from the bench as the case was)

Since stans time Ireland didnt want to play.
Reid is miles off international pace. He makes glen whelan look fast and agile.
Stokes was "too tired" to turn up a couple of years back, was subsequently injury prone and has only in the last few weeks hit any kind of form.
Gibson withdrew himself from the squad and never impressed for us.

it is incredible that these 4 are still being held up as players who would have turned our fortunes around.
Trap should have gone "cap in hand" to moody, disintrested players.... is this statement for real?

[Crosby87]

Yeah Andy scored twice for us in competitive matches, once vs Cyprus and once vs San Marino in a blowout. I think Steven Reid was always potentially more important than Andy Reid was.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Last word on Trap. Hoolahan, Brady, Ireland, Reid, Stokes, Gibson was an awful lot of talent to leave on the bench (or far from the bench as the case was). I know the latter four all had their various mis steps with the manager, but when you have a team which is not made up of Ronaldo's and Messi's, as he readily admitted himself, then you have to go cap in hand to your creative players. He was nothing if not stubborn (Glen Whelan) was Trap. Had he lightened up a bit and call the other lads back it might have been a different story.

Oversimplification maybe, but we really need to make the most of our resources.

And if that means reincorporating these latter 4, so be it.
The likes of McShane, Whelan, Sammon really aren't good enough, as were Ward & Kilbane before them. Even if some of them are good guys.

[geysir]

It should be in the contract of the new manager, Andy Reid already has shirt nr 16.
Who cares if he breaks the 5 second barrier for the 50m sprint, only once in a game.
.

[mark12345]

Since stans time Ireland didnt want to play.
Reid is miles off international pace. He makes glen whelan look fast and agile.
Stokes was "too tired" to turn up a couple of years back, was subsequently injury prone and has only in the last few weeks hit any kind of form.
Gibson withdrew himself from the squad and never impressed for us.

it is incredible that these 4 are still being held up as players who would have turned our fortunes around.
Trap should have gone "cap in hand" to moody, disintrested players.... is this statement for real?

Really trying to find the logic in your post. Can't for the life of me though.

Let's start at the beginning. Trap readily admitted that we are not a team of Ronaldo's and Messi's. Ok we got it Trap, everyone agrees. So then one would assume that he would go to his creative players. Yes, he had his run ins with them (and in at least three of the four cases Trap was not at fault). But over the passage of time when all he had left to call upon were those aforementioned creative players (ie no one else came along that was in any way better) then he had to go back to them. But because of his stubbornness he didn't.

Football is full of situations where managers didn't care for this lad or that lad's attitude but went back to pick him nevertheless, because he (the manager) had no other option. But Trap never crossed that bridge. Did he?
And regarding your assessment of the four players mentioned, Reid may be off the pace but he has more presence and skill about him than a wilderness of Glen Whelans. Stokes was too tired. That's correct. But there was a time when that should have been pushed aside. Like after the Euros because Stokes had had his punishment, so to speak. Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?

And Gibson got a real raw deal at the Euros. Didn't excuse the way he handled himself. He should have played in Poland. Again didn't excuse his behavior afterwards but Trap did have the chance to play him.

[mark12345]

Someone who sees a bit of sense

[paul_oshea]

Mark you live out in america how many Ireland games do you actually see/have seen?

I and a few others have pointed out traps mistakes in the past that we believe have cost us very dearly most notably this campaign when he was finally found out but I don't like this revisionist crap. Those 4 players were either very average/dome nothing and would have made feck all difference.Gibson had loads of chances and did nothing. Algeria was his only half decent game. Ireland had a few decent games but has done nothing in years.

By all means pick out traps faults and the reasons why we didn't qualify but don't throw out these nuggets as tho these 4 players were our messiahs.

[geysir]

Someone who sees a bit of sense
Mark you're seriously deluded, beyond saving I suspect, considering this statement of yours. SI has only said he would like to be contacted about playing, a negotiation of sorts, where God knows what might be discussed. The following words can only be described as purile.
"Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?"

[paul_oshea]

Not deluded too far from reality out in the states. Out of touch. I've seen it many times before.

[jbyrne]

Really trying to find the logic in your post. Can't for the life of me though.

Let's start at the beginning. Trap readily admitted that we are not a team of Ronaldo's and Messi's. Ok we got it Trap, everyone agrees. So then one would assume that he would go to his creative players. Yes, he had his run ins with them (and in at least three of the four cases Trap was not at fault). But over the passage of time when all he had left to call upon were those aforementioned creative players (ie no one else came along that was in any way better) then he had to go back to them. But because of his stubbornness he didn't.

Football is full of situations where managers didn't care for this lad or that lad's attitude but went back to pick him nevertheless, because he (the manager) had no other option. But Trap never crossed that bridge. Did he?
And regarding your assessment of the four players mentioned, Reid may be off the pace but he has more presence and skill about him than a wilderness of Glen Whelans. Stokes was too tired. That's correct. But there was a time when that should have been pushed aside. Like after the Euros because Stokes had had his punishment, so to speak. Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?

And Gibson got a real raw deal at the Euros. Didn't excuse the way he handled himself. He should have played in Poland. Again didn't excuse his behavior afterwards but Trap did have the chance to play him.

so players should be begged to have the privilage to play for their country? no thanks.

limited a player that he is, darren o'dea (for example) spent full days travelling back from ukraine / canada to sit on the bench for us while stokes was "too tired" to make it accross the Irish Sea.

the build up to many a match under trap saw Ireland spout off in some tabloid or other about how he didnt want to play. here's 191 pages of what Ireland thinks about playing for us.... http://foot.ie/threads/81705-Stephen-Ireland?highlight=stephen+Ireland.

tell me one game that gibson actually played well for us?

the only one of the 4 you mention that can have any kind of gripe is andy reid but even then his form has been suspect for the last few years.

you conveniently forget that all of the players you mention have struggled to varying degress to get into their club sides. yet these players were to be our saviour??!!

[Junior]

Mark you're seriously deluded, beyond saving I suspect, considering this statement of yours. SI has only said he would like to be contacted about playing, a negotiation of sorts, where God knows what might be discussed. The following words can only be described as purile.
"Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?"

Mark12345, Hasnt Gibson just said the same thing? Has he wanted to play for us over the last 15 months?

Lets simplify this.

Reid. - Out of the squad, his own doing. Could have been asked back in to the squad after a period though a very marginal decision. Form was patchy at best - Essential to Squad? NO
Stokes - Out of the squad, his own doing with lame excuse for friendlies. Injured for most of last season. Has been in good form this season (5 or 6 games) and possibly tail end of last season. Deserving of a call up prior to now? Not really (I hope he is in the next one though).
Ireland - Jaysus. Asked numerous times to come back by Trap (texts, face to face meeting), little runt thinks he is God. Form non existent in last 12 months. Deserving of a Squad place? NO
Gibson - Asked to come back on a couple of occassions since Euros, said No. Confirmed in yesterdays interview he didnt want to play for Trap. End of Story.

[mark12345]

Mark12345, Hasnt Gibson just said the same thing? Has he wanted to play for us over the last 15 months?

Lets simplify this.

Reid. - Out of the squad, his own doing. Could have been asked back in to the squad after a period though a very marginal decision. Form was patchy at best - Essential to Squad? NO
Stokes - Out of the squad, his own doing with lame excuse for friendlies. Injured for most of last season. Has been in good form this season (5 or 6 games) and possibly tail end of last season. Deserving of a call up prior to now? Not really (I hope he is in the next one though).
Ireland - Jaysus. Asked numerous times to come back by Trap (texts, face to face meeting), little runt thinks he is God. Form non existent in last 12 months. Deserving of a Squad place? NO
Gibson - Asked to come back on a couple of occassions since Euros, said No. Confirmed in yesterdays interview he didnt want to play for Trap. End of Story.

Re the above:

Reid, we are talking Andy here? Correct? Anyway if that's your view fine. Not mine.
Stokes is / was worth a call up because we don't have strikers coming out our ears. Long admittedly is playing at a much higher level and deserves to be ahead of him. But when he underperforms and you turn to Sammon who isn't up to much then.......

Ireland - Rights or wrongs of his past decisions not relevant now. Form did dip but can still do a job for us.

Gibson was asked back a million times that's correct. But that's not what I said. I said Trap had the chance to play him in the first placed and didn't and lost him because of this.

Collectively, six players Ireland, Stokes, Gibson, A Reid, and latterly Brady and Hoolahan was an awful lot of talent to dismiss. My most humble opinion. Sorry if it p*** off a few on her.

[brine3]

Mark you live out in america how many Ireland games do you actually see/have seen?

Sly comment, that one.


By all means pick out traps faults and the reasons why we didn't qualify but don't throw out these nuggets as tho these 4 players were our messiahs.

It's not just those players. Getting Trap to change things is like turning an oil tanker. Too slow. We could have done with Wilson and Coleman at Euro 2012. Trap is very slow to bring players through. He refers to 27 years olds as young players for god's sake.

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.

He just kept picking the same players in the same formation for years on end. Any clown can do that. Basically, Trapattoni wasn't bothering his hole to do his job properly, despite having been paid a king's ransom. That's why it fell to bits and that's why he got the sack.

[jbyrne]

It's not just those players. Getting Trap to change things is like turning an oil tanker. Too slow. We could have done with Wilson and Coleman at Euro 2012. Trap is very slow to bring players through. He refers to 27 years olds as young players for god's sake.

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.

He just kept picking the same players in the same formation for years on end. Any clown can do that. Basically, Trapattoni wasn't bothering his hole to do his job properly, despite having been paid a king's ransom. That's why it fell to bits and that's why he got the sack.

are these the same players that performed so dreadfully over the last two critical qualifiers?
the more he introduced the players the fans and media wanted the more our results kept getting worse. long, wilson and mccarthy in particular had stinkers in both our recent qualifiers. the players have to take some of the blame at least. twice long got in behind sweden and twice he messed up badly. are you going to say that was under instruction from trap?

he stuck to the tried and tested as thats what got him success for over 4 years. reaching the wc play-off v france and euro qualification cant be conveniently ignored. especially considering were we were when he arrived.

as pointed out a few pages back he gave 37 players their first cap for Ireland. thats about 1 for every 2 games he was in charge

[Charlie Darwin]

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.
Which quite neatly captures the problem of picking players on temporary form, and it's the reason why Robbie Keane has seen off every pretender to his throne in nigh-on 15 years.

[ArdeeBhoy]

he gave 37 players their first cap for Ireland. thats about 1 for every 2 games he was in charge
Around 25-30 of which, we could have done without...

[osarusan]

the more he introduced the players the fans and media wanted the more our results kept getting worse.
Yeah, it's all our fault.




he stuck to the tried and tested as thats what got him success for over 4 years.
And he was still sticking to right until his last game in charge.

[jbyrne]

Yeah, it's all our fault.


obviously not but the players he was encouraged to bring in didnt cover themselves in glory the last couple of games. thats the point i was responding to



And he was still sticking to right until his last game in charge.

and thats why he's rightly gone

[mark12345]

Not deluded too far from reality out in the states. Out of touch. I've seen it many times before.

Right you are sir. We are indeed out of touch. The ould black and white TV is very grainy these days and the airoplane that takes us back home hasn't been built yet.

[brine3]

are these the same players that performed so dreadfully over the last two critical qualifiers?
the more he introduced the players the fans and media wanted the more our results kept getting worse. long, wilson and mccarthy in particular had stinkers in both our recent qualifiers. the players have to take some of the blame at least. twice long got in behind sweden and twice he messed up badly. are you going to say that was under instruction from trap?

Long was out of form and shouldn't be playing. It happens. Meanwhile we have a fit striker in Walters on the wing. So yes, Long was under instructions from Trap in as far as he's on the pitch.

Trap played the same formation for every match. 4-4-2 with two holding central midfielders, one of which is Glenn Whelan. It doesn't matter if it's against cannon fodder in a qualifier or against Croatia at the Euros. Bilic studied DVDs of our matches and read us like a book. Double mark our wingers and you stifle all the creativity in the team, because there is not creativity in the centre of the park. Slip a playmaker between our two banks of four and he can do what he wants because we play so tactically rigid that there is always space there. It's exactly what Zlatan did against us in Dublin. Drop back into the space between the two banks of four and do as you like. Advocaat did the same thing with Russia, double mark our wingers and slip a playmaker between our banks of four. We were found out three years ago! But Trap just never sees it. He never had to, because, as he keeps going on, he had Boniek, Platini, Brady.

So what exactly was he being paid for when managing Ireland? He was supposed to analyse the opposition and come up with tactics for each match. But he does the same thing, over and over and over again. 4-4-2, two holding midfielders, rigid banks of four. If it is written in stone that we must always play the exact same formation, come rain or shine, then why bother with a manager at all? Save the million odd euros a year.

Yes, we have limited players. No, we don't have Platini and Boniek. That's exactly why we need a manager who is willing to get the most out of our limited resources and not take the **** by managing us by DVD from some lake in Italy.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Latest blog on Trap era and possible successors. Bit of a long piece, was a ******* to finish!

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2013/09/trap-finally-gets-sprung.html

[Stuttgart88]

FAI to respect foot.ie posters' wishes to delay appointment in order to allow for endless hours / days /weeks of faux intellectual waffle (http://http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/fai-to-discuss-trapattoni-successor-in-coming-days-1.1533755)

[jbyrne]

Long was out of form and shouldn't be playing. It happens. Meanwhile we have a fit striker in Walters on the wing. So yes, Long was under instructions from Trap in as far as he's on the pitch.


incredible logic.
you dont have to be "in form" to look up and play a simple ball accross the goal.

[Spudulika]

Once the first lie was told by our meeja, the first blatant, manufactured lie that was typical of fleet st/wapping wannabe dark art gobdaws, the coach should have gone. When it gets to the point where our "expert" is claiming that german football has serious problems, that the Spanish coach is only on 50k a year, and he and the ringmaster sneer at our best player, it doesn't matter who the next sacrificial lamb is, because the coach gave in to meeja pressure, as did his employers, and it made a mockery of the sport. If he'd gotten gibson, ireland, reid (both of them) giles and brady onto the pitch there'd be someone else to beat him with. It's a sick joke and nothing to do with sport.

[osarusan]

It's media, not meeja.

[paul_oshea]

It's not just those players. Getting Trap to change things is like turning an oil tanker. Too slow. We could have done with Wilson and Coleman at Euro 2012. Trap is very slow to bring players through. He refers to 27 years olds as young players for god's sake.

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.

He just kept picking the same players in the same formation for years on end. Any clown can do that. Basically, Trapattoni wasn't bothering his hole to do his job properly, despite having been paid a king's ransom. That's why it fell to bits and that's why he got the sack.

It wasnt a sly dig. I lived out there for a year, so i know how difficult it was for myself, granted it was a long time ago now and things have changed in 10 or so years. But even so, you dont get to see as many games, its a valid question.

I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though, Trap was solely to blame for the poor performances in Euros and against Germany he was far too slow for too long and got caught out. Granted most of those have played now and we lost the last 2 games but thats a different thing altogether.

[paul_oshea]

Once the first lie was told by our meeja, the first blatant, manufactured lie that was typical of fleet st/wapping wannabe dark art gobdaws, the coach should have gone. When it gets to the point where our "expert" is claiming that german football has serious problems, that the Spanish coach is only on 50k a year, and he and the ringmaster sneer at our best player, it doesn't matter who the next sacrificial lamb is, because the coach gave in to meeja pressure, as did his employers, and it made a mockery of the sport. If he'd gotten gibson, ireland, reid (both of them) giles and brady onto the pitch there'd be someone else to beat him with. It's a sick joke and nothing to do with sport.

The meejahideen osarusan. Did you read about that investigative journalist(Gemma O'Doherty) that got fired from the independent last week on the QT? Interesting article in the Guardian about it. Stepped on the wrong toes.... http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/17/irish-independent-ireland

[paul_oshea]

Brnie3 got me thinking about something, one of the main reasons it all came undone was because, he no longer had duff, and mcgeady wasnt available in the last few games to offer relief. Thats the biggest failing of the man, his system depended wholly on two speedy wingers capable of counter-attacking and creating chances from the wing. When those players weren't available he put square pegs in round holes and it didnt work. So after being stifled for so long, we ended up being suffocated, there was zero creativity. And thats where he should have been smart enough and experienced enough to bring in a playmaker like hoolohan for example, or just change his rigid and benign system.

But ya, any half decent manager spotted our strengths and more importanly our weaknesses. They used their most potent force to wonderful effect against our weakest achilles heel, modric/ibra/alaba etc. It shows just how toothless Trap was really. Thats why he has done nothing in 10+ years, as he is too institutionalised in his 70s/80s play and the game has passed him by. His tactics and system are well outdated.

[jbyrne]

Thats why he has done nothing in 10+ years

an unbeaten away competitive record until Austria, euro qualification, near wc 2010 qualification, paris, bari and other results would suggest otherwise.

[paul_oshea]

Sure kerr got a draw in paris, so what? When it really mattered we got hammered in the euros against any decent opposition. We got an easy group and qualified for the Euros, its like Switzerland on top of their group, Trap would have got us out of that no problem!

[DeLorean]

Thats why he has done nothing in 10+ years


an unbeaten away competitive record until Austria, euro qualification, near wc 2010 qualification, paris, bari and other results would suggest otherwise.

He also won titles in Portugal and Austria in the last eight years... nothing indeed.

[tetsujin1979]

Around 25-30 of which, we could have done without...
so he should have only given new caps to 7-12 players? Of the players he didn't cap, the only real outstanding "should have played" is Chris McCann, who was out injured for a year.

[brine3]

Sure kerr got a draw in paris, so what? When it really mattered we got hammered in the euros against any decent opposition. We got an easy group and qualified for the Euros, its like Switzerland on top of their group, Trap would have got us out of that no problem!

Kerr came closer to winning a qualification group than Trap ever did.

People like to knock Kerr, but that Zizou captained French team went on to lose the World Cup final on penalties. And Kerr, with a tiny bit of luck, might have won the group.

[DeLorean]

Or a tiny bit of 'not f**king up' against Israel... twice.

I agree he didn't do the worst job in the world though.

[brine3]

Which quite neatly captures the problem of picking players on temporary form, and it's the reason why Robbie Keane has seen off every pretender to his throne in nigh-on 15 years.

There have been times when Robbie was out of form and shouldn't have been picked.

No player in the Irish team should have a throne. We should field the best XI at our disposal at the time.

This is pretty basic stuff really.

[bennocelt]

He also won titles in Portugal and Austria in the last eight years... nothing indeed.

Didnt do the job for salzburg, which was to get into CL group stage

[brine3]

incredible logic.
you dont have to be "in form" to look up and play a simple ball accross the goal.

?? Are you familiar with football?

When a player is out of form, lacking in confidence and his club is trying to push him out the door, the simple things can start to go wrong.

Footballers are human beings.

[brine3]

Brnie3 got me thinking about something, one of the main reasons it all came undone was because, he no longer had duff, and mcgeady wasnt available in the last few games to offer relief. Thats the biggest failing of the man, his system depended wholly on two speedy wingers capable of counter-attacking and creating chances from the wing. When those players weren't available he put square pegs in round holes and it didnt work. So after being stifled for so long, we ended up being suffocated, there was zero creativity. And thats where he should have been smart enough and experienced enough to bring in a playmaker like hoolohan for example, or just change his rigid and benign system.

But ya, any half decent manager spotted our strengths and more importanly our weaknesses. They used their most potent force to wonderful effect against our weakest achilles heel, modric/ibra/alaba etc. It shows just how toothless Trap was really. Thats why he has done nothing in 10+ years, as he is too institutionalised in his 70s/80s play and the game has passed him by. His tactics and system are well outdated.

Alaba too, forgot that. Our centre-midfield has had the mickey taken out of it for three years now and Trap just stands by and does nothing. We even made the Armenians look like Brazil.

As you say, Trap got away with it as long as he had Duff, who is our greatest player from the post-Roy Keane era, winning free kicks all over the place.

[tetsujin1979]

Kerr came closer to winning a qualification group than Trap ever did.
Trapattoni finished two points behind group winners Russia in qualifying for Euro 2012, and six points behind group winners Italy inthe World Cup 2010 qualifiers
Kerr finished three points behind group winners Frances in the World Cup 2006 qualifiers, and four points behind group winners Switzerland in Euro 2004 qualifiers
But let's not let facts get in the way of an argument


People like to knock Kerr, but that Zizou captained French team went on to lose the World Cup final on penalties. And Kerr, with a tiny bit of luck, might have won the group.
If by "with a tiny bit of luck" you mean "if he had learned how to hold on to a lead in three games" then yeah, we might have

[Junior]

But ya, any half decent manager spotted our strengths and more importanly our weaknesses. They used their most potent force to wonderful effect against our weakest achilles heel, modric/ibra/alaba etc. It shows just how toothless Trap was really. Thats why he has done nothing in 10+ years, as he is too institutionalised in his 70s/80s play and the game has passed him by. His tactics and system are well outdated.

Jaysus Paul, you were whining on about 'revisionism' in a post yesterday - The above is plain and simple hor$e$hit.

Depressing Euros' admittedly. This wasnt just against 'decent' opposition as you say but actually against the 'best' opposition possible - Two of the finalists ffs. Yes he could have and should have done things differently and the campaign that followed was a disaster but lets keep this in persepctive. The first four years were a relative success.

I was listening to the Dave O'Grady YBIG podcast posted the other day and one of the contributors was saying how he hoped the change of manager would bring about a change in style, back to playing football again on the deck, like back to the Ireland team of the 70's and 80's..........I was thinking, all sounds nice but I dont recall footage of all them tournaments we played in back then? It has to be balanced - absolutely a change in tactics, style and personnel is required but there will always be an element of workmanlike huff and puff to our game plan, I think its just in our DNA.

[PatJR]

Brnie3 got me thinking about something, one of the main reasons it all came undone was because, he no longer had duff, and mcgeady wasnt available in the last few games to offer relief.


I think the absence of Dunne\St Ledger partnership at the back has been the bigger problem. I've not studied the stats but it feels like we have scored enough but conceded more than the previous Trap campaigns.

[DeLorean]

Didnt do the job for salzburg, which was to get into CL group stage

Oh right... I presume they stripped the club of their title then as well?

[Stuttgart88]

Trap was initially all about being hard to play through and difficult to score against. He was very happy to play without the ball and he was happy to try and nick goals from corners and frees. Most of our important goals in campaign one came this way, often with Hunt providing the delivery.

Over time we became easier to play through, easier to score against and worse with set pieces.

The system long since stopped working and Trap's solution was to play more primitive football, trying to outmuscle defenders in their last quarter of the pitch.

There were distinct phases of Trap's tenure: the phase where things worked and the phase where they clearly didn't. The reluctance to offer anything to address the latter phase (such as dropping Whelan) is why he had to go.


Junior, you're right. There'll always be some huff and puff, but under Jack there was also quite a bit of quality thrown in too. We were far more than the Crazy Gang of the international scene. Mick, Kerr and Stan all played a bit more of a passing game and I think it was only Trap that ever played outright hoofball.

None of the popular analysis accepts that there are questions of degrees in all this. We don't aspire to be Spain, but we can aspire to something better than the drivel of the last 12 months. The only quality we have seen was from a player like Hoolahan - Poland and Georgia for example. Did Trap take any note?

[jbyrne]

There have been times when Robbie was out of form and shouldn't have been picked.

No player in the Irish team should have a throne. We should field the best XI at our disposal at the time.

This is pretty basic stuff really.

and who exactly was showing better form for club or country during these alleged dips in form?


?? Are you familiar with football?
When a player is out of form, lacking in confidence and his club is trying to push him out the door, the simple things can start to go wrong.

Footballers are human beings.

yes, thats how i could see both instances were a dreadful waste.

its gas how its always 100% the managers fault and every excuse is thought up to preclude the players from blame

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Long had a shocker all round against Sweden. Even unprofessional at times. I wouldn't shy away from being critical of a player.

[paul_oshea]

Ya he looked a bit disinterested or preoccupied at times, keane was in there, but i suppose having played that long for ireland holding the ball up he wasnt used to having keane or anyone in there at the precise moment he got the ball, I definitely think that had a big part to play in it. It was still so frustrating to watch though. I can't believe keane didnt completely bollick him out of it.

[brine3]

and who exactly was showing better form for club or country during these alleged dips in form?



yes, thats how i could see both instances were a dreadful waste.

its gas how its always 100% the managers fault and every excuse is thought up to preclude the players from blame

If Trap had been following our players then he'd know that Long was out of form and that West Brom were trying to get rid of him. He'd also know that Walters was the man in form. If his tactic was to play hoofball against tall Swedish defenders, then you'd think the more physical (and in form) Walters would be the player to put up front.

It's never the manager's fault in your book, even when he makes farcical decisions.

[bennocelt]

Oh right... I presume they stripped the club of their title then as well?

I'm interested to know your opinion on last years Austrian and Portuguese championship winning managers and their various football styles (without goggling), please tell
I dont know myself but then I dont READ football!:rolleyes: