Player eligibility row

[geysir]

It's just odd seeing as Duffy's circumstances are different from Gibson's and surely FIFA are aware of this. :

Maybe we all look the same to FIFA.

[Charlie Darwin]

I imagine it's just FIFA being over-cautious. For once.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Though we all know what FIFA are like, for making it up as they go along.....

[Mr_Parker]

This quote made me think. In the unlikely event that the IFA win their CAS case, there could potentially be dozens of people choosing to make the switch at once. I would imagine a lot of kids choose to play for NI at underage level, but have no intention of playing a game that will tie them to the north. I appreciate that its no harder to get from Britain to Dublin than Belfast, but playing for the North allows them a couple of nights staying at home with their families and their mothers cooking, which can't be underated for a 16 year old living in England with limited opportunites to get home.

Presumably if the CAS ruled in favour of the IFA there would be a final opportunity for people to make the switch. That could be devestating for the NI underage setup.

FIFA could never enforce children under the age of majority making such a declaration.

[dantheman]

Edit: There has been some perspective taken on that board on the issue, and I acknowledge that

[co. down green]

I don't think it should even be a voluntary concession or 'act of good-will'. FIFA recently changed the rules, making them considerably more relaxed to facilitate one change of association regardless of previous international honours (except senior, of course) and these rules will be used to the favour of all associations, including the IFA.

And the IFA are continuing to make full use of the rules with Nigel Worthington’s selection & fielding of former Republic Of Ireland u16 international John Gorman in their friendly game against Turkey yesterday.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Or as they've already rebranded him, "Johnny Gorman", FFS.

Perish the thought he should 'sound' Irish....

[gspain]

Or as they've already rebranded him, "Johnny Gorman", FFS.

Perish the thought he should 'sound' Irish....

I know loads of Irish people known as Johnny.

[greendeiseboy]

I know loads of Irish people known as Johnny.


Johnny Giles
Johnny Carey
Johnny Gavin

[ArdeeBhoy]

I know loads of Irish people known as Johnny.

So do I!
It was tongue-in-cheek.
Though a little odd.

[gspain]

So do I!
It was tongue-in-cheek.
Though a little odd.

Or just any chance for you to criticise Northern Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha.
There's nothing wrong with slagging them.
It's small, if not miniscule, beer compared to the flak and paranoid nonsense that some of their populace direct towards us!

[antrimgreen]

In a short answer, NO. Our pool is small enough as it is and an individual born in the six countries is rightly eligible to play for ROI. The real issue here is the defection after a number of years with NI.

Its hard to ignore the political issue here but if one thing supporting and following ROI around the world has taught me, its how many people from the north consider the ROI "their" team and have no affiliation with NI.

Yes technically the ROI represents the 26 counties but we are a relatively unique situation. Anyone born in the north is rightly imo entitled to a ROI passport and then should be entitled to represent the ROI if they so wish. Even if they do not have any direct relations born in ROI (e.g. the Gibson case).

I think the real issue here is the chopping and changing. The new rules are ridiculous imo and should at least revert to what was in place before. For example, I think a game at U21 level should tie a player to that country. This would lessen the likes of the Duffy incident to an extent.

If James McCarthy suddenly declared for Scotland, we would be very pi**ed off about the decision even though the lad would fully be within his rights, so I can understand that NI are aggrieved over the whole incident. However, the real issue here is not the eligibility and is the defection after a number of years spent coming through the ranks. I think it is NB to point out that difference.

No such thing as an ROI passport elroy, it's an Irish Passport and those born in the the 6 counties are every bit as Irish as those in the free state. It's a messy affair this but i think all players on the Island have the right to play for the team that represents their own nationality the most.

[Sullivinho]

A lot of noise is made about time, money, investment and whatnot (a bogus grievance given the time players spend within the youth systems of foreign clubs) but I think it's clear a lot of the northern acrimony stems from the fact that Irishmen within the territory are eager and willing to identify themselves exclusively as such. It must be very difficult and frustrating to express any sense of entitlement towards these players whilst simultaneously ignoring the history that brought about their current circumstances and why exactly their identity is represented by another flag and anthem.

I fully expect the CAS case to fall flat on it's face, and rightfully so. 'Counterproductive' won't begin to describe the effect that defeat will have.

[third policeman]

Johnny Giles
Johnny Carey
Johnny Gavin


Or Jonny Evans? Northern Irish are by definition Irish

[ArdeeBhoy]

Even though you see UJ's all round the place.....Hmm. Their definition is somewhat different.

[Predator]

And the IFA are continuing to make full use of the rules with Nigel Worthington’s selection & fielding of former Republic Of Ireland u16 international John Gorman in their friendly game against Turkey yesterday.This is scandalous! Poaching, wait no, begging backstards! Abusing the system and so on.

[DannyInvincible]

Or Jonny Evans? Northern Irish are by definition Irish

Scotch-Irish, isn't it? :P

[Charlie Darwin]

Evans is a Welsh name, isn't it?

[TrapAPony]

Evans is a Welsh name, isn't it?

Ya, it's definitely Welsh.

[ArdeeBhoy]

To be 'fair' to them, the settlers in the North weren't just grumpy Presbyterians from Caledonia with an axe to grind....


And to answer Danny on the 'Scots-Irish', isn't it, 'Ulster-Scots' ??

Though you'd feel sorry that Ireland, Scotland or even England should be lumbered by any association.....
:eek:

[punkrocket]

Scotch-Irish, isn't it?

Is that a blend or a malt?

[dantheman]

Is that a blend or a malt?
It's an identity crisis

[EalingGreen]

And the IFA are continuing to make full use of the rules with Nigel Worthington’s selection & fielding of former Republic Of Ireland u16 international John Gorman in their friendly game against Turkey yesterday.

(English-born) Gorman qualifies for NI on the basis that he has a grandparent from Coleraine. I do not know on what basis he formerly qualified for ROI.

Anyhow, all we ask is that the general principle whereby you may represent a Football Association outwith whose jurisdiction you were born only if you meet certain Eligibility Criteria (parent/grandparent/residence), be applied equally across all 208 Member Associations of FIFA.

[geysir]

Unfortunatly for you, there is no such general principle in the relevant FIFA articles of eligibility and the IFA are not part of that "we ask".
The IFA are not campaigning for the general principle of article 15 to be changed from "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence" to players just born within the boundaries of an association.
They are asking for the current rules, as they are written, to be applied.

[DannyInvincible]

Anyhow, all we ask is that the general principle whereby you may represent a Football Association outwith whose jurisdiction you were born only if you meet certain Eligibility Criteria (parent/grandparent/residence), be applied equally across all 208 Member Associations of FIFA.

How humble... As much as you'd like you delude yourself/promulgate the illusion that you're not being all that demanding or antagonistic with "all you gently ask", you know as well as everyone else - or, at least, should, because you clearly have the mental capacity to see beyond the blinkers - that that would require the revocation and re-wording of article 15 of the FIFA statutes. That is something that FIFA is evidently not prepared to do and CAS has no jurisdiction to force them to do so.

[dantheman]

Anyhow, all we ask is that the general principle whereby you may represent a Football Association outwith whose jurisdiction you were born only if you meet certain Eligibility Criteria (parent/grandparent/residence), be applied equally across all 208 Member Associations of FIFA.

You are wrong!

They are being applied equally. All people from NI have the birthright to an Irish nationality, as endorsed by the Unionist community in 1998, but also applied beforehand.

All the GFA agreement (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf) did was to confirm that the Unionist community and UK government ALSO recognised this fact (along with the northern nationalist community and Irish government who already held such a view, AND WAS ALREADY PART OF THE IRISH CONSTITUTION, AND THEREFORE LAW).

As the IFA are a BRITISH organisation (and display all the trappings of one, including proudly being reigning British champions (http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/11/british-champions-1984.html)), it is therefore logical that anyone who wishes to apply their IRISH nationality must do so by playing for the FAI team.



The law is there
There was a referendum
It was endorsed by everyone (including YOUR community, doh :D)
It will remain
Get over it

Your (perceived) issue is with the Irish constitution/law and therefore the Irish government, not the FAI, and not FIFA!

You need to start petitioning members of Leinster House and trying to get some sympathetic TD's to get the Dail to vote for another referendum (which would be required under law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Ireland)) to change that aspect of the constitution (http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taoiseach.gov.ie%2Fattached_f iles%2FPdf%2520files%2FConstitution%2520of%2520Ire land.pdf&rct=j&q=irish+constitution&ei=YJoLTNWfCIfu0wSkn-WzAQ&usg=AFQjCNHWk8u-6wt4DvNqcHPEbLn_aaAPBA).


"An amendment must first be approved by both Houses of the Oireachtas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oireachtas) (parliament), then submitted to a referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum), and finally signed into law by the President (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ireland). Aside from constitutional referendums, the constitution also provides, in extraordinary circumstances, for a referendum on a normal bill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%28proposed_law%29) known as the ordinary referendum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinary_referendum), but none have yet occurred."
So you need:



cross party support
approval from the Seanad (I would recommend you contact this man (http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=23&MemberID=2257&ConstID=210))
signed off by the President, Ardoyne's own Mary McAleese (who must have read the OWC forum (http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/?c=IRELAND&jp=kfidgbgbqlmh&d=2005-01-27))


You could also argue that Shane Duffy's "defection" is in extraordinary circumstances. There hasn't been one yet, but hey, why not give it a try?

Quis separabit

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha, good comeback there.

Not sure why we would ever take a certain person seriously, given they regularly refer to us by the 'b-word' on the :rolleyes: ever delightful free-thinking OWB MB (with numerous others), and went to the time and not inconsiderable expense of creating a banner thanking a certain cheating Frenchman......

[paul_oshea]

Whats funny/ironic(or maybe not at all) is the fact that EG is an intelligent, articulate and well-thought out poster, though we have seen in the past he doesn't fully understand the wording of certain articles. Yet he goes to the trouble that all the other narrow-minded, trouble making ignoramouses go to. That is the real worry, if you think about it.

[EalingGreen]

Unfortunatly for you, there is no such general principle in the relevant FIFA articles of eligibility and the IFA are not part of that "we ask".
The IFA are not campaigning for the general principle of article 15 to be changed from "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence" to players just born within the boundaries of an association.
They are asking for the current rules, as they are written, to be applied.
I was not referring to what is stated in FIFA's Articles etc, ot how they have been interpreted/applied.
I was merely stating that the basic premise for international eligibility is that a player is eligible due to birthplace (only) to represent solely the National Association within whose jurisdiction he was born. For 207 Member Associations of FIFA, this means just one Member Association, but the 208th (NI), it means two (IFA and FAI).
Are you saying that this is incorrect?

[EalingGreen]

You are wrong!

They are being applied equally. All people from NI have the birthright to an Irish nationality, as endorsed by the Unionist community in 1998, but also applied beforehand.

All the GFA agreement (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/Pdf%20files/NIPeaceAgreement.pdf) did was to confirm that the Unionist community and UK government ALSO recognised this fact (along with the northern nationalist community and Irish government who already held such a view, AND WAS ALREADY PART OF THE IRISH CONSTITUTION, AND THEREFORE LAW).

As the IFA are a BRITISH organisation (and display all the trappings of one, including proudly being reigning British champions (http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/11/british-champions-1984.html)), it is therefore logical that anyone who wishes to apply their IRISH nationality must do so by playing for the FAI team.



The law is there
There was a referendum
It was endorsed by everyone (including YOUR community, doh :D)
It will remain
Get over it

Your (perceived) issue is with the Irish constitution/law and therefore the Irish government, not the FAI, and not FIFA!

You need to start petitioning members of Leinster House and trying to get some sympathetic TD's to get the Dail to vote for another referendum (which would be required under law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Ireland)) to change that aspect of the constitution (http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taoiseach.gov.ie%2Fattached_f iles%2FPdf%2520files%2FConstitution%2520of%2520Ire land.pdf&rct=j&q=irish+constitution&ei=YJoLTNWfCIfu0wSkn-WzAQ&usg=AFQjCNHWk8u-6wt4DvNqcHPEbLn_aaAPBA).

So you need:



cross party support
approval from the Seanad (I would recommend you contact this man (http://www.oireachtas.ie/members-hist/default.asp?housetype=1&HouseNum=23&MemberID=2257&ConstID=210))
signed off by the President, Ardoyne's own Mary McAleese (who must have read the OWC forum (http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/?c=IRELAND&jp=kfidgbgbqlmh&d=2005-01-27))


You could also argue that Shane Duffy's "defection" is in extraordinary circumstances. There hasn't been one yet, but hey, why not give it a try?

Quis separabit

The GFA is utterly irrelevant to the question of international eligibility of Irish-born players, for two reasons (at least).
1. The GFA makes no reference to Football, neither do FIFA's Statutes etc make reference to the GFA;
2. FIFA presently recognises the right of someone born within NI to represent the FAI outwith the normal parentage/residence requirements, on account of the fact that such people are automatically entitled to Republic of Ireland citiizenship as a birthright. This birthright has been available since 1921 i.e. 77 years before the GFA was even conceived.

[EalingGreen]

Ha ha, good comeback there.

Not sure why we would ever take a certain person seriously, given they regularly refer to us by the 'b-word' on the :rolleyes: ever delightful free-thinking OWB MB (with numerous others), and went to the time and not inconsiderable expense of creating a banner thanking a certain cheating Frenchman......

Yep, I've used what you sensitively term "the b-word" - and make no apology for it.
And the banner didn't cost me or any of the other originators a sou.
Though I would happily have contributed to it, both for the amusement it caused in France, and the amusement it caused in Ireland. Speaking of which latter, I am pleased to see that many ROI fans had the maturity and self-confidence to see the banner for what it was (a wind-up).
Whilst those ROI fans like yourself who are so thin-skinned that they immediately cried "handbal...", er "foul", merely added the cherry to the icing on the brioche

[EalingGreen]

Whats funny/ironic(or maybe not at all) is the fact that EG is an intelligent, articulate and well-thought out poster, though we have seen in the past he doesn't fully understand the wording of certain articles. Yet he goes to the trouble that all the other narrow-minded, trouble making ignoramouses go to. That is the real worry, if you think about it.
If by "certain articles" you are referring to the application by FIFA of their Eligibility Articles etc to the Irish situation, then I would point out that not once have I ever stated in any of my numerous posts on this topic on this forum that FIFA would come down on the side of the IFA.
In fact, I was always careful to state that I thought that they might go either way - even after John Delaney was quoted by RTE at Dublin Airport as stating that the FAI had "won the battle" (Gibson), but "lost the war" (eligibility generally) as he flew home to sack Steve Staunton the following day.
Neither have I denied it when FIFA subsequently appeared to do a U-turn from Delaney's understanding and come down ultimately on the side of the FAI.

Of course, accepting that something may be so, and accepting that something should be so, are two different things entirely - even if you appear incapable of discerning it from what I and others post in this respect.

[EalingGreen]

Or as they've already rebranded him, "Johnny Gorman", FFS.

Perish the thought he should 'sound' Irish....
I see those bigots at Molyneux are calling him "Johnny", too. Maybe it's down to that Orange Bar Steward of a manager of theirs?
http://www.wolves.co.uk/page/AcademyProfiles/0,,10307,00.html

Meanwhile:
http://www.tribalfootball.com/wolves-prospect-gorman-stunned-northern-ireland-debut-872871

[DannyInvincible]

I was not referring to what is stated in FIFA's Articles etc, ot how they have been interpreted/applied.
I was merely stating that the basic premise for international eligibility is that a player is eligible due to birthplace (only) to represent solely the National Association within whose jurisdiction he was born. For 207 Member Associations of FIFA, this means just one Member Association, but the 208th (NI), it means two (IFA and FAI).
Are you saying that this is incorrect?

That's entirely incorrect. I suggest you read article 15 again instead of assuming "basic premises for international eligibility".

[EalingGreen]

That's entirely incorrect. I suggest you read article 15 again instead of assuming "basic premises for international eligibility".How is it incorrect?
Is it not correct that if you are born in France, you may ordinarily* only represent the FFF? Or in Germany only the DFB? In Brazil only the CFB?

Are you are aware of any other territory in the world within which being born automatically confers on a player the right to choose between representing two Member Associations of FIFA?


* - Obviously there are qualifications due to Dual Nationality (parentage/residence etc)

[DannyInvincible]

The GFA is utterly irrelevant to the question of international eligibility of Irish-born players, for two reasons (at least).
1. The GFA makes no reference to Football, neither do FIFA's Statutes etc make reference to the GFA;
2. FIFA presently recognises the right of someone born within NI to represent the FAI outwith the normal parentage/residence requirements, on account of the fact that such people are automatically entitled to Republic of Ireland citiizenship as a birthright. This birthright has been available since 1921 i.e. 77 years before the GFA was even conceived.

Of course. The point is that it's a bit rich - childish and idiotic even - to hear accusations of southern irredentism being thrown about by Northern Ireland fans when the population of Northern Ireland, including a majority of the unionist community, democratically recognised the extra-territorial applicability of Irish citizenship over their jurisdiction. Likewise, it was recognised by the government of the UK. It's perfectly legitimate and recognised on a bi-lateral basis so to make out as if its indicative of some sort of aggressive or over-reaching "foreign policy" is simply nonsense.

[DannyInvincible]

How is it incorrect?
Is it not correct that if you are born in France, you may ordinarily* only represent the FFF? Or in Germany only the DFB? In Brazil only the CFB?

That is correct alright, but it doesn't represent what you tried to pass off as a basic premise of international eligibility in the face of a written rule (article 15) which quite clearly mentions nothing about birthplace, but rather, invokes a player's nationality. It is each individual nation's right to award citizenship to its citizens as it wishes. Despite my fairly basic research, Ireland's system appears to be a unique one internationally, but a perfectly legitimate one all the same.

[Charlie Darwin]

The GFA is utterly irrelevant to the question of international eligibility of Irish-born players, for two reasons (at least).
1. The GFA makes no reference to Football, neither do FIFA's Statutes etc make reference to the GFA;
2. FIFA presently recognises the right of someone born within NI to represent the FAI outwith the normal parentage/residence requirements, on account of the fact that such people are automatically entitled to Republic of Ireland citiizenship as a birthright. This birthright has been available since 1921 i.e. 77 years before the GFA was even conceived.
The GFA may not have changed the constitutional status of citizenship as a birthright but it did effectively legitimise Ireland's right to offer it and that has to have an effect on any lawmaker's thinking.


* - Obviously there are qualifications due to Dual Nationality (parentage/residence etc)
Why are those forms of dual nationality superior to the automatic birthright of those born on the island of Ireland?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yep, I've used what you sensitively term "the b-word" - and make no apology for it.
And the banner didn't cost me or any of the other originators a sou.
Though I would happily have contributed to it, both for the amusement it caused in France, and the amusement it caused in Ireland. Speaking of which latter, I am pleased to see that many ROI fans had the maturity and self-confidence to see the banner for what it was (a wind-up).
Whilst those ROI fans like yourself who are so thin-skinned that they immediately cried "handbal...", er "foul", merely added the cherry to the icing on the brioche
Well, nice hypocrisy by you. And your bretheren. Especially coming on here and all.
No wonder the likes of Duffy (& undoubtedly many more) have left behind the paranoia and control freakery displayed on OWB.

As for that banner, whether it cost you or not, some moron went to the effort of producing it. Notice the North's 'fans' didn't go to the effort of producing one, say to mark the exploits of say, Best, Dougan or Healy.
And if you really think it wasn't a handball, well you really do need to change your prescription!

[Sullivinho]

As for that banner, whether it cost you or not, some moron went to the effort of producing it.

Sur wasn't it a superb victory for them in fairness? I expected a march but I s'pose a nice wee banner is as good a way as any to commemorate what they achieved that night in Paris. And if the vicariousness holds up, the Norn might well enjoy a great World Cup with the likes of Anelka and Ribery in the side! Who knows, winning the cup by proxy may even go some way to soothing the apoplexy brought about by upstarts like young Duffy who, "no disrespect to Northern Ireland", would rather be "playing for his country". ;)

[Charlie Darwin]

The banner was funny. I'm sure it was just a giddy little thrill for NI fans the same way half of this country enjoys remembering the Hand of God.

[ifk101]

2. FIFA presently recognises the right of someone born within NI to represent the FAI outwith the normal parentage/residence requirements, on account of the fact that such people are automatically entitled to Republic of Ireland citiizenship as a birthright. This birthright has been available since 1921 i.e. 77 years before the GFA was even conceived.

The Republic of Ireland is the official name of an international football team and/ or a description of Ireland's form of government. Ireland was declared a republic in 1949. I'm sure you are well aware of this. ;)



Is it not correct that if you are born in France, you may ordinarily* only represent the FFF? Or in Germany only the DFB? In Brazil only the CFB?

No that's incorrect. There are other special circumstances.

But regardless, are you against Irish nationals by birth representing their country? If so, you are against the true essence of what international football seeks to and should represent.

[co. down green]

(English-born) Gorman qualifies for NI on the basis that he has a grandparent from Coleraine. I do not know on what basis he formerly qualified for ROI.

Anyhow, all we ask is that the general principle whereby you may represent a Football Association outwith whose jurisdiction you were born only if you meet certain Eligibility Criteria (parent/grandparent/residence), be applied equally across all 208 Member Associations of FIFA.

I think you will find that Gorman qualifies for both Irish teams via his Co. Derry born mother.

I suggest you contact FIFA's legal department with any queries regarding eligibility, although i would have thought that the penny would have dropped by now, after FIFA have clearly stated on a number of occasions, that players born in the North continue to be eligible to represent Ireland.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sure wasn't it a superb victory for them in fairness? I expected a march but I s'pose a nice wee banner is as good a way as any to commemorate what they achieved that night in Paris. And if the vicariousness holds up, the Norn might well enjoy a great World Cup with the likes of Anelka and Ribery in the side! Who knows, winning the cup by proxy may even go some way to soothing the apoplexy brought about by upstarts like young Duffy who, "no disrespect to Northern Ireland", would rather be "playing for his country". ;)

Aye, yer right! We are bigger than that. It's just the hypocrisy of OWB :rolleyes: that really stinks.

Anyway as numerous others have shown, our illustrious poster when not referring to us as poor dispossessed people, has a very limited grasp of FIFA regulations and Irish citizenship rules.
Incidentally, there is no country called 'Republic of Ireland'. Lol.

[DannyInvincible]

I think you will find that Gorman qualifies for both Irish teams via his Co. Derry born mother.

I suggest you contact FIFA's legal department with any queries regarding eligibility, although i would have thought that the penny would have dropped by now, after FIFA have clearly stated on a number of occasions, that players born in the North continue to be eligible to represent Ireland.

To be fair to EG on this, the strict rule under which Gorman presumably qualifies to play for us - article 17 - does actually raise the question of birthplace of his grandparent and specifies that it must have been within the territory of the association he now seeks to represent. This is at variance from article 15, which raises only the matter of a player's birth nationality. It confuses me as to how that would have made him eligible for us. In saying that, Alex Bruce's circumstances are more or less identical for the purpose of comparison and FIFA never appeared to have a problem with him lining out for us.


15 Principle
1. Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country.

...

17 Acquisition of a new nationality
Any Player who refers to art. 15 par. 1 to assume a new nationality and who has not played international football in accordance with art. 15 par. 2 shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfi ls one of the following conditions:
(a) He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;
(d) He has lived continuously for at least fi ve years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association.

[EalingGreen]

Of course. The point is that it's a bit rich - childish and idiotic even - to hear accusations of southern irredentism being thrown about by Northern Ireland fans when the population of Northern Ireland, including a majority of the unionist community, democratically recognised the extra-territorial applicability of Irish citizenship over their jurisdiction. Likewise, it was recognised by the government of the UK. It's perfectly legitimate and recognised on a bi-lateral basis so to make out as if its indicative of some sort of aggressive or over-reaching "foreign policy" is simply nonsense.
You confuse "Irredentism" amd "Citizenship".
An example of the former was when the Irish Republic Government claimed territorial jurisdiction over Northern Ireland, even despite such a claim being nowhere recognised under international law. (In that respect, it was a little like eg Turkey claiming jurisdiction over Northern Cyprus.) Anyhow, this irredentist claim was removed as part of the GFA negotiations, which the population of Ireland North and South (including myself, btw) supported overwhelmingly.
As for Citizenship, it is open to any Nation State to grant citizenship to whomsoever it likes, for any reason or none. This basic principle was unchanged by the GFA, other than the Government of the UK specifically acknowledged that right, rather than tacitly accepting it, as previously.
Personally, I always thought the former Irredentism of the Irish Republic to be unwelcome, unhelpful and even marginally offensive. However, I couldn't care less about their Citizenship policy (aside from the way that the FAI uses that anomaly to exploit FIFA's eligibility criteria to select players who were not born within their own jurisdiction and who also do not meet the additional parent/grandparent/residence criteria which apply to players born outwith the jurisdiction of every other of FIFA's 207 Member Associations)

[EalingGreen]

That is correct alright, but it doesn't represent what you tried to pass off as a basic premise of international eligibility in the face of a written rule (article 15) which quite clearly mentions nothing about birthplace, but rather, invokes a player's nationality.

I was not attempting to pass off the basic premise of international eligibility (i.e. born within the jurisdiction of a Member Association of FIFA) as being specifically reflected in FIFA's Articles, merely pointing to its (premise) existence, in order to highlight the anomalous and inequitable situation re the IFA. This premise might prove inconvenient for you, but that does not alter it, never mind refute its existence.

Despite my fairly basic research, Ireland's system appears to be a unique one internationally, but a perfectly legitimate one all the same.It does, indeed, appear to be unique; moreover it is recognised by FIFA. That does not mean it is fair* or equitable.

* - Just like Gallas's goal in Paris was recognised by FIFA as being "legitimate"...

[EalingGreen]

The GFA may not have changed the constitutional status of citizenship as a birthrightNo "may" about it.


but it [GFA] did effectively legitimise Ireland's right to offer it [Citizenship] Does that mean that pre-GFA, you considered the Irish Republic Government's policy of granting citizenship automatically to people born within NI to have been less than legitimate? If so, it is ironic, even bizarre that you might think so, whilst I do not!


and that has to have an effect on any lawmaker's thinking.It may or may not have had an effect on FIFA's thinking, we do not know. Personally, I believe the attempts by Qatar and Togo to grant their respective citizenship to Brazilians etc who did not have dual nationality by birthright had much more of an impact. Or who knows, it might just have been another example of Sepp Blatter opening his mouth before engaging his brain one day, a phenomenon which is hardly unknown to supporters of the ROI team, I suspect...


Why are those forms of dual nationality superior to the automatic birthright of those born on the island of Ireland?I did not state/imply, nor do I believe, that these were "superior"; rather they are additional or ancilliary.

[EalingGreen]

Well, nice hypocrisy by you. And your bretheren. Especially coming on here and all.
No wonder the likes of Duffy (& undoubtedly many more) have left behind the paranoia and control freakery displayed on OWB.Really? According to Duffy, his opting to represent the FAI was at least partly on account of his being a Catholic, that apparently being the natural consequence of his holding whatever religious convictions he maintains.
Fortunately, the very many other Cathoics who represent NI at all the various levels do not take the same essentially sectarian view of things.


As for that banner, whether it cost you or not, some moron went to the effort of producing it.No great "effort" at all (you know, computers and that); in fact, it might better have been described as a 'Labour of Love'.
Of course, such cost and effort as was expended might have been more onerous had it not had the full desired effect. But seeing as how you and others were apparently so outraged by it, I think we may safely call it "Mission Accomplished!"


Notice the North's 'fans' didn't go to the effort of producing one, say to mark the exploits of say, Best, Dougan or Healy. We do indeed have banners honouring George Best. We have a Supporters' Club named in his honour. We also have wall murals honouring him. We have now renamed an airport after him. There has been a Charitable Foundation set up in his name and donations are being sought for a Statue to the great man.
As for Healy, there is more than one banner extolling the wee man on display at every home NI game; he features on several wall murals throughout NI and there is a park named after him in his home town.
Re. Dougan, his rather mediocre record of 8 goals in 43 internationals does not merit any greater recognition than that of, say, Colin Clarke (13/38) or Jimmy Quinn (12/48). Nonetheless, he does feature on a wall mural in his East Belfast homeland.

And if you really think it wasn't a handball, well you really do need to change your prescription!If you have inferred that from anything I have ever posted, then it is you who is in need of medication, not me...