Player eligibility row

[Lionel Ritchie]

And are you for real??? Real about what now? Ireland rejoining the UK or the likelihood of the FAI and Republic of Ireland team surviving reintegration to a larger geo-political entity? The former is about as likely as an entirely seperate, independent 32 county all-island state. The latter could happen in the event we went cap in hand back to her benevolent majesty pleading that this whole "going indie" fad had gotten right outta hand. These guys agree with me. (http://www.hkfa.com/en/index.php)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, right.
April 1st.was 3 weeks ago. You need to wake up to what most other sports are doing!

And WTF has the Hong Kong FA to do with anything???

[Lionel Ritchie]

Yeah, right.
April 1st.was 3 weeks ago. You need to wake up to what most other sports are doing!

And WTF has the Hong Kong FA to do with anything???

Hong Kong continue to field their own football team despite being a part of the Peoples Republic of China. Same with Macau.

So in the event of say a United Ireland state there is no reason why the two international teams or their FAs would have to merge unless they and their relative supporters specifically wanted to. I'd say an overwhelming majority of NI supporters would be against it and while it would appear a majority at least of our support would be in favour -that majority would erode pretty fast when people realised such a merger would be the end result of difficult negotiations where some sacred cows and hobby horses would meet a bloody doom. Some of the things likely to be negotiated out the window would be A na bF (nice tune ...iffy lyrics though) and our tricolour. You could also expect to be heading the other way up the M1 to watch about half our home games. Who'd like to break that news to Aviva?

[Predator]

Hong Kong continue to field their own football team despite being a part of the Peoples Republic of China. Same with Macau.

So in the event of say a United Ireland state there is no reason why the two international teams or their FAs would have to merge unless they and their relative supporters specifically wanted to.Surely FIFA would have the final say in it? Are they going to yield to Northern Ireland fans? Where would the jurisdiction of this continued Northern Ireland team be in the event of united Ireland state? In the event of one state, I suspect there would be one team.


Some of the things likely to be negotiated out the window would be A na bF (nice tune ...iffy lyrics though) and our tricolour. You could also expect to be heading the other way up the M1 to watch about half our home games. Who'd like to break that news to Aviva?
In the event of Ireland becoming a reunified entity politically, the issues of anthem and flag would probably already be sorted and the single Ireland football team (and probably other Irish sporting bodies) would take on these I imagine. On the issue of the stadium; it wouldn't make any sense to split the home games between Belfast and Dublin unless a new 50,000 seater stadium is built in Belfast.

[geysir]

Surely FIFA would have the final say in it? Are they going to yield to Northern Ireland fans? Where would the jurisdiction of this continued Northern Ireland team be in the event of united Ireland state? In the event of one state, I suspect there would be one team.
In the event of a United Ireland? that does not mean the memory of a 'Northern Ireland' can be just wiped out and allegiance automatically transferred to another entity. Same as partition in 1921 did not inflict a memory wipe out for nationalists nor automatically could impose a positive sentiment towards the new statelet.
FIFA would be inclined to support an existing federation's desire to continue to exist as a separate entity.
In all likliehood the IFA would be allowed to continue to have representative teams, if they want to.


In the event of Ireland becoming a reunified entity politically, the issues of anthem and flag would probably already be sorted and the single Ireland football team (and probably other Irish sporting bodies) would take on these I imagine. On the issue of the stadium; it wouldn't make any sense to split the home games between Belfast and Dublin unless a new 50,000 seater stadium is built in Belfast
Who knows what course the path to unity will take, regardless, the IFA will not at all be under any forceful pressure from FIFA to compel them to disband.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure how FIFA votes on that kind of thing, but I assume the home nations FAs would have 50% of the votes so would effectively block any attempt to integrate the Irish teams against the IFA's will.

[DannyInvincible]

Just having a guess, but I assume that the reason Hong Kong and Macau are able to preserve distinct international teams is due to the fact that they remain as separate political jurisdictions within the overall "state" or something. I don't know what the nature of any future united Ireland would be, but I assume that for the two teams to be preserved, there would have to be some visible political distinction between their respective territories. In saying that, I have heard the notion of a federal united Ireland being aired in which Stormont would maintain certain powers of governance over what is now Northern Ireland but still under the general umbrella of a united Ireland. Whether that would satisfy FIFA as being "distinct enough", I don't know.

[Gather round]

Who knows what course the path to unity will take

The path blocked with a big 'no entry' sign, I think. In the foreseeable future it's about as likely as a united Scandinavia.


Out of interest, why exactly would you be unable to relate to an all-Ireland football team, in contrast with how you relate to the current all-Ireland rugby team? It is because it would be something you wouldn't be totally used to and wouldn't be sure what form it might take on, or is there something more to it?

It would be- not that I see it happening in the foreseeable future, as above- effectively a Republic of Ireland team complete with Soldier's song, Tricolors, fiddle-diddle and the rest. I've no interest in rugby, but do follow Irish cricket and that's bad enough. No harm to the Southern and nationalist fans, obviously we have a shared enjoyment of the game, but I'd much prefer a distinct NI team even if it was weaker.


If for arguments sake i told you NI will not make a Euro or WC for the next 30 years would you reconsider? Or would you rather a team never make it but at least they would still be "your team?" This is what I am curious about

The latter, of course. In the same way that if I'd told you in 1994 you'd only qualify for one of the next eight tournaments I wouldn't have expected you to go off and start supporting England or Brazil.

[kingdomkerry]

Keep trying to convince yourself

[geysir]

I'm not sure how FIFA votes on that kind of thing, but I assume the home nations FAs would have 50% of the votes so would effectively block any attempt to integrate the Irish teams against the IFA's will.
If it was an issue, it would be an issue for congress.
The home nations do not have 50% of the congress vote.
They have no special voting privileges in FIFA
except they have a majority vote or veto power, as regards to any changing of the rules of the game or something to that effect.
Other than that, the 4 home nations have just one vote each in congress, same as any other association.

The IFA could apply to be downgraded to provisional member of FIFA, and in future be known as the provisional IFA.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It would be- not that I see it happening in the foreseeable future, as above- effectively a Republic of Ireland team complete with Soldier's song, Tricolors, fiddle-diddle and the rest. I've no interest in rugby, but do follow Irish cricket and that's bad enough. No harm to the Southern and nationalist fans, obviously we have a shared enjoyment of the game, but I'd much prefer a distinct NI team even if it was weaker.


It's, er, tricolour
Did the Nordie education system even deny its correct spelling??
:eek:

As for a 'separate' cricket team, luckily the ICU (& IRFU) aren't such paranoid bigots to suggest fragmented national sporting teams. By comparison, even the distant concept of a UI is more likely, FFS.
;)

Evidence of this is one Irish soccer team not qualifying for a Finals since 2002 and the other 'faux' one for a minimum of more than quarter of a century and counting......

[ArdeeBhoy]

Some of the things likely to be negotiated out the window would be A na bF (nice tune ...iffy lyrics though) and our tricolour. You could also expect to be heading the other way up the M1 to watch about half our home games. Who'd like to break that news to Aviva?

We've already had that discussion;'A Nation Once Again', The Four Provinces Flag and if Aviva are that bothered, they can pay to upgrade Casement Park !

[Lionel Ritchie]

We've already had that discussion;'A Nation Once Again', The Four Provinces Flag and if Aviva are that bothered, they can pay to upgrade Casement Park !

https://www.msu.edu/user/svoboda1/taxi_driver/pictures/talk2me.jpg

Chattin' with the bathroom mirror does not a discussion make. A Nation Once Again? Why the half-measures? ...why not 'The Provie Birdy' altogether? For balance sake -when we're playing in this upgraded Casement Park should we play 'Here Lies A Soldier' or 'Dollys Brae'?

[Crosby87]

I truly do not believe NI will ever make a World Cup or Euro Championship in my remaining lifetime. I am 33 and healthy as a horse.
Just my opinion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Chattin' with the bathroom mirror does not a discussion make. A Nation Once Again? Why the half-measures? ...why not 'The Provie Birdy' altogether?

Hmm. Clearly Amnesia and Irony are not concepts that have permeated the Limerick environs??
Though if you really want to bring up Irish nationalism/'The Struggle', in a spirit of compromise, games in Beal-feirste could also be accompanied by 'The Sash'. Even that would be more credible than their current dirge....
;)

And to be fair to the Six counties representative XI, if there's a 24 team Euros in 2016, even they should get there....

[awec]

It's, er, tricolour
Did the Nordie education system even deny its correct spelling??
:eek:

As for a 'separate' cricket team, luckily the ICU (& IRFU) aren't such paranoid bigots to suggest fragmented national sporting teams. By comparison, even the distant concept of a UI is more likely, FFS.
;)

Evidence of this is one Irish soccer team not qualifying for a Finals since 2002 and the other 'faux' one for a minimum of more than quarter of a century and counting......

Funnily enough, I've been criticised for singing "Ireland's call" at the rugby, recieved dirty looks after people hear my Northern accent for not singing the Soldiers song (I stand, I'm quiet and I respect it, seem some can't respect my choice not to sing it) and I've heard the old "Ireland's call shouldnt be sung, it's a disgrace, only in there to appease those northern <insert expletive here>."

If these problems exist in Rugby, then they'd be far greatly magnified in football and I can't ever see there being an all ireland football team for a long time.

[awec]

We've already had that discussion;'A Nation Once Again', The Four Provinces Flag and if Aviva are that bothered, they can pay to upgrade Casement Park !
Casement Park? You're kidding right?

Why not upgrade Windsor?

[ArdeeBhoy]

I don't know, you could call the access road to Casement, 'Irony Bypass', no?
;)

[Gather round]

As for a 'separate' cricket team, luckily the ICU (& IRFU) aren't such paranoid bigots to suggest fragmented national sporting teams

It represents two separate countries, so fragmenting into two teams makes perfect sense.


By comparison, even the distant concept of a UI is more likely, FFS

Come out of denial, you know it makes sense.


Evidence of this is one Irish soccer team not qualifying for a Finals since 2002 and the other 'faux' one for a minimum of more than quarter of a century and counting......

Aye, it's evidence that they're both mediocre. Which they'd likely remain if they merged.


For balance sake -when we're playing in this upgraded Casement Park should we play...'Dollys Brae'?

Only if we rename it 'King William's Bridge'

[Gather round]

I truly do not believe NI will ever make a World Cup or Euro Championship in my remaining lifetime. I am 33 and healthy as a horse.
Just my opinion

I wouldn't put too much money on it, while wishing you another healthy 50 years and more. I've not expected us to qualify for any tournament while I've been watching, including the ones where we did.

[seanfhear]

To counteract the complaint that the FAI are poaching players that the IFA have spent time and money developing I believe that the FAI should be allowed to recruit players from the North at the same age that they are allowed to on the rest of the island. This would at least put an end to the complaint of the IFA wasting their time and money on players that do not want to play for them.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It represents two separate countries, so fragmenting into two teams makes perfect sense.

Ha ha. Think the rugby & cricket will always rightly ridicule such a nonsensical stance!
As I say, it's only the soccer where such paranoid f*ckwittery exists.

[third policeman]

Ha ha. Think the rugby & cricket will always rightly ridicule such a nonsensical stance!
As I say, it's only the soccer where such paranoid f*ckwittery exists.


Agree. GR is talking through his arse to state that ROI and NI are "seperate countries." NI is not a country, it is a "province" of the UK and by his rather flexible logic therefore is not entitled to an international team in any sport including soccer.

[DannyInvincible]

To counteract the complaint that the FAI are poaching players that the IFA have spent time and money developing I believe that the FAI should be allowed to recruit players from the North at the same age that they are allowed to on the rest of the island.

Can the FAI not do this anyway outside of schoolboy internationals?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Funnily enough, I've been criticised for singing "Ireland's call" at the rugby, recieved dirty looks after people hear my Northern accent for not singing the Soldiers song (I stand, I'm quiet and I respect it, seem some can't respect my choice not to sing it) and I've heard the old "Ireland's call shouldnt be sung, it's a disgrace, only in there to appease those northern <insert expletive here>."

If these problems exist in Rugby, then they'd be far greatly magnified in football and I can't ever see there being an all ireland football team for a long time.
Fair play;Personally, no problems with SS & The Sash if it really is an issue. As for those regarding the football team, these are largely to do with unionist paranoia (by some, but not all of that tradition).

[seanfhear]

Can the FAI not do this anyway outside of schoolboy internationals?
I suppose as things stand at the moment they could do but they have not started to do it.

If they did it would put a stop to the IFA complaining about putting money and time into players that do not want to play for them.

[Gather round]

Agree. GR is talking through his arse to state that ROI and NI are "seperate countries." NI is not a country, it is a "province" of the UK and by his rather flexible logic therefore is not entitled to an international team in any sport including soccer

Evening TP. Last time I looked, there was a pretty obvious- and inflexible- border between the two. But you pretend otherwise if it suits you.

[Serb]

Agree. GR is talking through his arse to state that ROI and NI are "seperate countries." NI is not a country, it is a "province" of the UK and by his rather flexible logic therefore is not entitled to an international team in any sport including soccer.

Northern Ireland is as much a country as Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales are. But I don't think you're being serious in this post? It's times like this the SarcMark (http://www.sarcmark.com/) would come in handy :D

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly you've not passed between the two recently;the 'border' is virtually non-existent. Only the road signs and odd flags would indicate any difference....

And to emphasise TP is relatively correct, politically there are no such countries as England, Scotland or Wales (Constituent parts of Britain), not mention any colonial rump that makes up the entity of 'Uk'....
Suggest you buy an atlas or check the U.N's list of accredited countries, unless of course you wish to 'pretend otherwise'. That is of course presuming the last two posts were 'serious' ??
;)

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm probably boring you all, but as a political science graduate, I should probably point out that "country" and "state" are not strictly interchangeable terms, and that by most agreed definitions Northern Ireland is a country within a state. The United Kingdom is very unusual in that sense (as is Ireland).

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair enough CD, but to most mere mortals a country is a state.
And don't see why we should especially accomodate England/Britain's "empire" to confirm their rather odd status.

[DannyInvincible]

I suppose as things stand at the moment they could do but they have not started to do it.

If they did it would put a stop to the IFA complaining about putting money and time into players that do not want to play for them.

Certainly can't argue with that. Whilst the FAI are not behaving contrary to the rules of the game, it is undoubtedly more satisfying and rewarding when you can boast of having brought your players through your own international ranks. Would the FAI be permitted to set up training camps in the north? Would those NI fans who have no problem with players from the north playing for Ireland, just so long as they don't involve themselves in the Northern Ireland set-up at any level, have any problem with the FAI potentially doing this?

[seanfhear]

Certainly can't argue with that. Whilst the FAI are not behaving contrary to the rules of the game, it is undoubtedly more satisfying and rewarding when you can boast of having brought your players through your own international ranks. Would the FAI be permitted to set up training camps in the north? Would those NI fans who have no problem with players from the north playing for Ireland, just so long as they don't involve themselves in the Northern Ireland set-up at any level, have any problem with the FAI potentially doing this?
Realistically it is the only way to go as it will put an end to the carping from some quarters about the time and effort they are putting in to players that do not want to play for them.

[Gather round]

Would those NI fans who have no problem with players from the north playing for Ireland, just so long as they don't involve themselves in the Northern Ireland set-up at any level, have any problem with the FAI potentially doing this?

No, go ahead. I'm assuming you you have similar plans for England?

[DannyInvincible]

No, go ahead. I'm assuming you you have similar plans for England?

The recruitment of English-born players by the FAI is not a major source of tension with the English FA, though. The point of such an endeavour, as a unique once-off initiative in international football and more important than maintaining some consistent policy of recruitment beyond the Irish state's borders, would be for it to represent a voluntary gesture on behalf of the FAI demonstrating their willingness to maintain good neighbourly relations.

[geysir]

Realistically it is the only way to go as it will put an end to the carping from some quarters about the time and effort they are putting in to players that do not want to play for them.
Let them carp.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. Probably feel better knowing they are carping.
Cherry picking some will do grand for now.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, Hypocrisy is their middle name. Coming after Paranoia.
;)

[Predator]

Read in the papers today that Duffy has not yet received clearance to play in the friendlies and again it was hinted that the CAS case had something to do with it. Would there be restrictions placed on players who want to make the switch?

[TrapAPony]

Read in the papers today that Duffy has not yet received clearance to play in the friendlies and again it was hinted that the CAS case had something to do with it. Would there be restrictions placed on players who want to make the switch?

His dad is from Donegal which makes him perfectly entitled to play for us. What's the problem?

[Predator]

Even if his dad wasn't from Donegal, he'd be perfectly entitled to play :p I don't think there is a problem with his eligibility, but as has been discussed earlier in the thread, it's either a case of it normally taking a bit of time, or as the papers suggest, FIFA have placed restrictions on players changing until the CAS case is closed.

[Charlie Darwin]

FIFA still has to approve his switch of allegiance. Making sure he is eligible and that he hasn't done anything to make himself ineligible, I guess.

[The Fly]

DERRY CITY duo, Patrick McEleney and Thomas McBride have been named in the Republic of Ireland Under-18 squad for next week's double header friendlies away to Macedonia.

The talented pairing will be hoping to make a significant impression during the friendlies, to be played on Tuesday, May 11th and Thursday, May 13th in the Ohrid City Stadium.

Thomas McBride had recently been included in the NI under-18 Schools side that played against our ROI equivalent, at Tullamore on March 17.

http://www.derryjournal.com/derry/Derry-duo-called-up-to.6269321.jp

[tetsujin1979]

Just because he played for the schools side doesn't mean his allegiance was to the North, you play for the country where you go to school. McGeady has schoolboy caps for Scotland, Ryan Giggs played schoolboy football for England.

[Predator]

DERRY CITY duo, Patrick McEleney and Thomas McBride have been named in the Republic of Ireland Under-18 squad for next week's double header friendlies away to Macedonia.

The talented pairing will be hoping to make a significant impression during the friendlies, to be played on Tuesday, May 11th and Thursday, May 13th in the Ohrid City Stadium.

Thomas McBride had recently been included in the NI under-18 Schools side that played against our ROI equivalent, at Tullamore on March 17.

http://www.derryjournal.com/derry/Derry-duo-called-up-to.6269321.jp
McBride had been included in our U19 squad prior to the schoolboy friendlies I believe.
Patrick McEleney should be staking a strong claim for a place in the squad. He's been having a good season with Derry so far.

[seanfhear]

DERRY CITY duo, Patrick McEleney and Thomas McBride have been named in the Republic of Ireland Under-18 squad for next week's double header friendlies away to Macedonia.

The talented pairing will be hoping to make a significant impression during the friendlies, to be played on Tuesday, May 11th and Thursday, May 13th in the Ohrid City Stadium.

Thomas McBride had recently been included in the NI under-18 Schools side that played against our ROI equivalent, at Tullamore on March 17.

http://www.derryjournal.com/derry/Derry-duo-called-up-to.6269321.jp
Welcome aboard lads. Hope you have a great time playing for Ireland and get to grace the new Lansdowne Road on great occasions.

[bwagner]

Liam Boyce from Cliftonville has been playing very well this year. Barca are suppose to be interested.
Played for the North U19s
I think we should take him and any nationlist player that wants to play for us.
They are more Irish the most Southerns.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is he aware that he's a nationalist and wants to play for us or have you decided on his behalf?

[bwagner]

Die Darvin

[Predator]

Is he aware that he's a nationalist and wants to play for us or have you decided on his behalf?Nothing official, but I've heard from a few accounts that he could switch. I've also heard that Conor Devlin, Man United's U18 and sometimes reserve 'keeper may be declaring. Again, it's still just speculation at this point.

[SkStu]

so, what did we decide?

No?