John O'Shea

[4tothefloor]

You can't call him a failure when he is playing for Man U and has won trophies, plus being a full international. However, he is hugely over-rated and I can't understand how he is still at Utd, I guess it's a perfect example of how Fergie has lost it as a manager. Against Italy I thought he was average. He's a disaster at left-back. In midfield he did ok, but if he's serious about playing there he needs to start doing so for his club. One of the most brainless players when it comes to keeping possession and passing the ball, I'd rather see him on the bench to be honest. However, Kilbane was worse. As for Liam Miller..........why in gods name is he in the squads? Waste of space :rolleyes:

[Don Vito]

Its too early to say. He is still young and has a lot to learn , but you dont play central midfield for United if you are a bad player.

The thing is he's not that young anymore, he was 24 in April. Roy Keane was 22 about to turn 23 when he was our player of the tournament at the 94 World Cup, Robbie Keane broke our nations goal scoring record at 24. Using the age excuse for O'Shea and also Miller just doesn't cut it anymore, Miller is 24 also now. What we need is a manager like Cloughie who's not afraid to give players a good kick up the arse, which is what both of them need!

[fosterdollar]

What we need is a manager like Cloughie who's not afraid to give players a good kick up the arse, which is what both of them need!
What player in their right mind would take that from an international team manager?

[thejollyrodger]

Duff Robbie Josh and Miller are all the same age. The first two have done alright, the last two have been far below expection. Miller has some serious work to do if he wants to rescue his career. He needs to drop to a smaller club and get first team football.

As for Josh, I blame Mc Carthy for wrecking his career. He missed out on a WC while Robbie and Duff played. I cant belive Mc Carthy never brought him, for that alone I was glad Mc Carthy got the sack.

As for the 4-3-3 formation Im delighted that Kerr tried it the other night, 4-4-2 is dead, its too static and if you dont have all your strikers your screwed. We a team with lots of wingers and usually a strong midfield. 4-3-3 is well suited to us, its just that the players have to get used to it.

Full marks to Kerr IMO. We should have won against Israel but I still think we will beat the French.

[joeSoap]

As for the 4-3-3 formation Im delighted that Kerr tried it the other night, 4-4-2 is dead, its too static and if you dont have all your strikers your screwed. We a team with lots of wingers and usually a strong midfield. 4-3-3 is well suited to us, its just that the players have to get used to it.
I cant see him going with anything but a 4-4-2 against the french. The 4-3-3 was probably a ruse to baffle their spies, as Stapleton so eloquently put it on tv later..

[thejollyrodger]

I agree. 4-4-2 is our strongest formation and its what kerr will probably play. At least we will have a bit of a surprise up our sleve when we face the french.


Its gonig to take a right few more goes at in in friendlies for ireland to master 4-3-3. Other formations do have their advantages though and 4-3-3 is really good if you have lots of possession and want to put teams away (AFAIK)

[Superhoops]

....As for Josh, I blame Mc Carthy for wrecking his career. He missed out on a WC while Robbie and Duff played. I cant belive Mc Carthy never brought him, for that alone I was glad Mc Carthy got the sack....
Is this a serious comment? O'Shea was nowhere near the squad for Japan. Unless I am mistaken at the time the WC squad was picked he had only played 6 minutes at international level (against Croatia, when he gave away a penalty!). He had only played a handful of games for United at that stage.

How did McCarthy ruin his career? When Mick was in charge O'Shea club career was only starting.

[dr_peepee]

I thought O'Shea played allright when he moved to the middle the other night. He's an O.K left full, i think he gets forward and support the wingers well. I'll reserve judgement on his career just yet.

But he was nowhere near the World Cup squad for '02..... What are we, Northern Ireland?? Capping every Man Utd reserve player.... He didn't deserve to even be considered for the squad despite with "His Corkness" said.

[thejollyrodger]

Is this a serious comment? O'Shea was nowhere near the squad for Japan. Unless I am mistaken at the time the WC squad was picked he had only played 6 minutes at international level (against Croatia, when he gave away a penalty!). He had only played a handful of games for United at that stage.

How did McCarthy ruin his career? When Mick was in charge O'Shea club career was only starting.


Ask Roy, O Shea should have been brought , he was in top form back then and would have solved our left back nightmare.

Playing at the world cup for players really makes them a lot better than their colleagues who havent. Their concentration has to be better, the play has to be better, everything. it improves them no end.

Look at duff who was captipulated to chelsea after the wc. josh has gone from mediocre to mediocre

[Superhoops]

Ask Roy, O Shea should have been brought , he was in top form back then and would have solved our left back nightmare.
Ask who?

On what basis do you claim that O'Shea was in 'top form'? In the whole of the 2001/2002 season leading up to the WC finals he played 9 league games and 3 CL games for MU. Hardly World Cup form!

There were plenty of opportunities for McCarthy to bring him into the team after we had qualified. We played four games in Dublin in 2002 before the WC against Russia, Denmark, USA and Nigeria and also Niall Quinn's testimonial at Sunderland.
Q. Why was he not selected for any of these games?
A. He was not good enough.

I would be interested to know who you think should have been dropped from the squad that went to Japan to make way for him?

[ThatGuy]

Obviously he is a success.

Whether or not he is a good player is simply opinion, and can not be proven one way or another.

Whether or not he is a success can be determined by his achievements, of which he has made many.

[CollegeTillIDie]

He reminds me a lot of Liam Miller who is, in the words of Damon Albarn in the song Tracy Jacks, " .......just so overrated" :p

[joeSoap]

:confused: He was subbed again today or united after an hour. Failed to make any impression on the game.....can't figure him out really :confused:

[thejollyrodger]

well on 20/20 hindsight I would have dropped Hearte but I know we dont have a strong squad so there would be enough room for Josh.

I think Josh is going to be Irelands future in midfield, and a very good future too.

[Superhoops]

well on 20/20 hindsight I would have dropped Hearte but I know we dont have a strong squad so there would be enough room for Josh.

I think Josh is going to be Irelands future in midfield, and a very good future too.There was no way Harte was not going to be in the WC2002 squad. McCarthy nor any other manager has ever had the benefit of hindsight. So forget hindsight and suggest a player who should not have gone to accommodate O'Shea.

IMHO, if O'Shea is to be Ireland's future in midfield, we have serious problems, unless his midfield career at MU takes off dramatically. Currently he is not one of Ferguson's first names on the teamsheet. I believe he will end up in the role Phil Neville did for years, filling in when the regular first teamers are injured or suspended.

I hope I am wrong. For Ireland's sake I want O'Shea to succeed but I am doubtful he will unless he moves from MU.

[thejollyrodger]

well i think o shea should have least been brought to Japan, i think he will be a good player for ireland too. The matches ahead will soon tell us

[tetsujin1979]

Ask Roy, O Shea should have been brought , he was in top form back then and would have solved our left back nightmare.
I'm almost certain O'Shea had never played left full at that point, either for United or Ireland, only turned out for both at centre half. Even if he had gone, there's no way he would have been thrown into the World Cup in an unfamiliar position

[thejollyrodger]

why was roy always complaining that he wasnt brought then ??

[thejollyrodger]

O'Shea hastens midfield move
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http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1454212&issue_id=12895

NO matter what team Brian Kerr selects for Ireland's game against France next month, Ireland's manager will have to take an uncharacteristic gamble. Kerr has always been ready to adapt his sides, depending on the opposition, but following the unsatisfactory performance of the three-man midfield, as he would like it to be known, in the defeat to Italy last Wednesday, Ireland's return to 4-4-2 has only one, significant, worrying obstacle.

Kerr will probably select the team that drew in Paris, if he can, for what promises to be a special night in Dublin. Ireland will be facing a different French team which will include not only the three returning stars - Zidane, Thuram and Makelele - but Patrick Vieira, who was suspended for the game in Paris. But Ireland, even if Kerr can select the same side, may be different too. Roy Keane is a year older, a year closer to a retirement which may come next summer.

The only valid reason Kerr may have for playing with three men in central midfield is a desire to protect Keane as Manchester United have done. At Goodison Park last Saturday, Keane struggled with the physical commitment of Everton's Tim Cahill and could not, at times, close down the featherweight Mikel Arteta.

Against Makelele and Vieira, with Zidane hovering around, Keane's weary legs may be exposed and Kerr may have pondered the need for an extra midfielder, especially an athletic one like Steven Reid or John O'Shea, both of whom did well in those positions.

Reid is an interesting story. Within the Irish camp, he is rated highly as a player with something different to offer a team which is overloaded with busy, effective midfielders. Reid is strong, imposing and, when the mood takes him, very talented. He has been unlucky with injuries and his confidence is said to have suffered. But he finished last season well for Blackburn and now, if he stays fit, he will get his chance.

Some time ago, Keane assessed the ability of O'Shea to play in midfield with the words "John has a good football brain, see". O'Shea showed that on Wednesday night when he moved into midfield and brought a solidity lacking when the fading Matt Holland was doing the job. Alongside Keane, that intelligence would allow him to react to dangers Keane sees but can no longer do much about. With Kevin Kilbane - a favourite of Kerr and the French coaching staff - struggling with Everton, O'Shea has moved into a favourable position for a midfield job.

Kerr is unlikely to risk O'Shea in that role against France, but his performance in that position accelerated the process which may see him establish himself there in the future. Last season, Kerr watched Keane and O'Shea dominate the midfield against Tottenham at White Hart Lane and, after the defeat to Italy, he recalled a conversation shortly after that game with Alex Ferguson where United's manager confessed he was still searching for O'Shea's best position.

"John has the balance, the technique and the awareness for midfield, no doubt, he has the speed of thought too," Kerr says, but this is unlikely to be enough to promote him to that position for Ireland's most important game.

But it's a position in which O'Shea appears comfortable and one where his occasional concentration lapse is not as severely punished. He was slow to react for Italy's goals while playing at left-back, a failing that has cost United on occasion as well.

Kerr's decision to rest Keane, the injury to Graham Kavanagh and the withdrawal of Holland gave O'Shea his chance. "I had wanted to look at John in that position for some time and I got the opportunity tonight."

Ireland's manager recalled O'Shea's early career in that position and said "I might", when asked if he would pick him in central midfield against the French.

It would be a bold departure for the manager who would have to abandon many of his fundamentals, as well as one of his strikers, in order to lay down the midfield protection for Keane. That will not happen. Robbie Keane's goals ensure his place and he cannot play as a lone striker, even if Kerr sees the system as 4-3-3, not 4-5-1.

Kerr will hope it may not be needed. Roy Keane's sluggishness may just be the result of a lack of matches, but how many more will he play before the French game?

Instead there is another gamble the manager will take. He will hope for a big performance from Keane as he has given so many times on days and nights such as this. The prize for victory will be a giant step closer to a final major tournament; the price of failure for Keane will be the bitter reminder of football mortality. It will be a special night and Keane has always savoured those.

But there were justifiable reasons to question Kerr's experiment when he is unlikely to adopt it against the French. Kerr believes that the English football community can be "slaves" to 4-4-2 - even if Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool and Everton play variations on a five-man midfield as Newcastle are likely to do this season. Far from being alien to English football, like three centre backs ten years ago when Mick McCarthy was one of its exponents, it is the latest craze.

Kerr will hope for a big performance from Roy Keane as he has given so many times on days and nights such as this

Kerr insisted he might play the system against the French, especially as the manager, again, may be happier with a draw than anybody else who will cram into Lansdowne Road on the night. "We don't have to win," he says.

But Ireland could do with victory to rekindle the optimism felt after the draw in Paris but squandered over two games against the Israelis.

A victory in September would change all that, but it would also change the pattern of the group in a way that does not seem likely. Ireland will have to fight until the final day in October for their place in the World Cup or in a play-off. Brian Kerr has always believed that and at times, as he squandered leads in Tel Aviv and in Dublin, it has seemed like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There are no sound predictions to be made for the French arrival in September. Games like that, as Brian Kerr, Roy Keane and every Irish player knows, move beyond rational explanation.

Dion Fanning




a good article about Josh there, I think we are having problems in midfield now and it looks like we need to start phasing players in. I never thought of S.Reid though.

[sadloserkid]

why was roy always complaining that he wasnt brought then ??

Because he's a moaner who always has to complain about something? :)

[thejollyrodger]

I'll never forgive McCarthy for not bringing Josh to the WC2002. The man is a failure IMO.

[youngirish]

O'Shea is absolute s***e. I can't believe people are suggesting he should have played in the WC ahead of Harte when he hadn't even played a full game for Utd. He's s***e now and he's got three years premiership experience behind him so how bad would he have been back then?

I agree Harte had a nightmare WC but he was good in the qualifiers and banged in a number of goals so at least he offers an attacking option even if he is suspect defensively. O'Shea is just dodgy defensively and has nothing else going for him.

Answer this question when has O'Shea ever been good for Ireland? Never, yet I remember him being absolutely rubbish on a number of occasions (the Israel game and the Swiss game in the Euro Championship qualifiers particularly stick out).

[Superhoops]

O'Shea is absolute s***e. I can't believe people are suggesting he should have played in the WC ahead of Harte when he hadn't even played a full game for Utd. He's s***e now and he's got three years premiership experience behind him so how bad would he have been back then?

I agree Harte had a nightmare WC but he was good in the qualifiers and banged in a number of goals so at least he offers an attacking option even if he is suspect defensively. O'Shea is just dodgy defensively and has nothing else going for him.

Answer this question when has O'Shea ever been good for Ireland? Never, yet I remember him being absolutely rubbish on a number of occasions (the Israel game and the Swiss game in the Euro Championship qualifiers particularly stick out).
Agree entirely.

BTW, not people suggesting he should have gone to WC2002, only one person 'thejollyrodger' who still has not suggested who should have been left out of the squad to accommodate JOS. Oh yes, nearly forgot about Roy!!!
who in all this clamouring for other people to go, didnt go himself.

[NeilMcD]

Lads there should be a middle ground. O Shea is not ****e and has been very good this season for Man Utd for anybody that has watched their games. He played well the other night when he was moved into midfiled. However I dont think he should have gone to the WC in 2002 as he had very little experiece and we were taking Cunningham Dunne, Staunton O Brien and Breen Finnan Harte and Kelly as defenders. All of them had much more international and club experience with them.

It seems to me that peoples opinions on O Shea are largely influenced by who he plays for which is rather sad.

[thejollyrodger]

Agree entirely.

BTW, not people suggesting he should have gone to WC2002, only one person 'thejollyrodger' who still has not suggested who should have been left out of the squad to accommodate JOS. Oh yes, nearly forgot about Roy!!!
who in all this clamouring for other people to go, didnt go himself.


You have a very short memory. When JOS first came to man utd he had a really good season, everyone was saying promising he was. He wasnt brought to man utd for nothing FFS.

I cant remember our full squad for WC 2002 but I know for definite there are 1-2 players back then that Jos would have pushed out of the squad if we had a proper manager.

Roy Keane knows more about football than you ever will you idiot.

[Stuttgart88]

Well said Neil, some balance is required. It's churlish to say he's sh***e end of story. He's had two bad games for Ireland. Everyone was crap in Basle the first time around and Given was every bit as culpable as O'Shea for Israel's equaliser. He's rarely been outstanding but by and large he has defended well.

I saw him against Everton and he was very good. If he played that well for Ireland at left back we wouldn't be discussing him.

I just read that O'Shea is not in MUFC's squad for the second leg of their CL qualifier tomorrow due to a minor injury. Was this why he was subbed against Villa or was he not playing well?

[joeSoap]

I just read that O'Shea is not in MUFC's squad for the second leg of their CL qualifier tomorrow due to a minor injury. Was this why he was subbed against Villa or was he not playing well?

I don't think he played too well to be honest, but wasn't bad either...fairly average. He won't make that back four when Heinze is fully match fit; Neville, Rio, Silvestre, Heinze will be the preferred back four.

Perhaps Josh should follow the lead of Phil Neville and make a move to a high(ish) profile club where he will be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and be guaranteed a regular position of his own.

[thejollyrodger]

AFAIK Henize is automatic first choice for Left Back but has been given a extended break because of all the games he has played in the Confederations Cup. Josh will have to push him for that position

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, he needs to pin down a regular spot in a regular position. Hopefully midfield. In fairness to him, Heinze is an excellent left-back & it's no shame being second choice to him. But until he establishes himself in one position he'll always be second choice at MUFC.

[NeilMcD]

I thought he was playing ok against Villa but they needed a goal and deciced to freshen things up. I think Heinze needs games too so he is going to bring him slowly back into matches so I think that Heinze coming on for O Shea is going to be a common sub for the next few weeks. The fact that O Shea was likely to be carrying a knock means that the sub was inevitable. O Shea was excellent against Everton and in the European game too. I dont understand why people argue about players and let club loyalties etc get in teh way of an Irish international. When a player plays for Ireland I do not even consider what club he plays for etc and I watch the EPL largely as thats where our top players play and the reasons the games hold my attention is due to the Irish involvement. A bit of reasoned argument is needed here rather than personal insults etc.

[tetsujin1979]

When JOS first came to man utd he had a really good season, everyone was saying promising he was.

His first full season wasn't until 2002/2003 - AFTER the World Cup. He only played a handful of games in 2001/2002, check soccerbase.com if you don't believe me.

Why should a player who had 1 international cap (as a sub, for about 10 minutes, and he gave away a penalty) and 14 starts that season be brought to the world cup??

[joeSoap]

Why should a player who had 1 international cap (as a sub, for about 10 minutes, and he gave away a penalty) and 14 starts that season be brought to the world cup??

Because if he's a better option than some others he should have been brought, irrespective of age or experience, and he was certainly a better option at that particular time than Harte (subsequently, sadly, proven), and Staunton.

[Hither green]

Because if he's a better option than some others he should have been brought, irrespective of age or experience, and he was certainly a better option at that particular time than Harte (subsequently, sadly, proven), and Staunton.

In fairness though he'd not had as much of a chance to f*ck up in an Ireland top by that stage. Where as Harte...

I'm no United fan but would love O'Shea to do well. Thought he was v average the other night, lacking in ideas, kept playing Duff into trouble, passing to him when he was on the touchline with 3 men around him. But I guess O'Shea wasn't the only one doing that the other night.

[chancer]

It's true, I've never seen him play exceptionally well for us, though for Man Utd he's had a few cracking games (and I'm no Man U supporter). That said, just because his performances don't stand out a mile every time doesn't mean he's a failure, he's a good LB and could make a very good CM. I would say he's a success, though perhaps more was expected from him.
Oh, and he didn't deserve to be brought to the WC at the time, too young and raw.

[youngirish]

Lads I have nothing against Irish players playing for United so it's wrong to state that's the reason I think he's crap. In all honesty O'Shea had one good season for Utd when he first appeared on the scene and has been poor ever since.

Anyway it's not his Utd form that influences me its his form (or lack of) for Ireland. He has never been better than average for us but has on numerous occasions been exceptionally dodgy.

As for Keane knowing more about football than us I'd agree that he does but we've all seen O'Shea playing in the Ireland games and I don't think anyone can state that he's ever been particularly good.

[Superhoops]

....I dont understand why people argue about players and let club loyalties etc get in teh way of an Irish international. When a player plays for Ireland I do not even consider what club he plays for etc and I watch the EPL largely as thats where our top players play and the reasons the games hold my attention is due to the Irish involvement. A bit of reasoned argument is needed here rather than personal insults etc.
Good shout NMcD.

I am not a JOS fan but it is nothing to do with the club he plays for. However, while he continues to play for MU, he seems content to play an 'understudy' role, which is his choice. I believe this adversely affects his game for Ireland as he is not getting regular playing time in one position or another.

Is he a defender or a midfielder? I think neither, I think Ferguson is happy to use him as a utility player. We do not have the luxury of being able to accommodate such a player on the basis that he has looked good in the odd game. If we had a left full back playing regular EPL, JOS would not get a look in at that position and we have a number of better out and out midfield players that him. Similarly we have several better centre backs than him.

I am only interested in how he performs for Ireland and so far what I have seen has been generally disappointing. I am not sure whether BK is just accomodating him by including him or picking him because he is the best player available in the position for which he is picked.

[thejollyrodger]

The same people are probably calling for the likes of Mc Geady and Elliott to get starts in competitive games in the World Cup.

JOSh was a very promising player back then and he was on brilliant form. There isnt much subsitute for a player who is in great form. Hearte had a nightmare of a WC. Mc Carthy probably knew that things werent going right for him but played him anyway. What kind of management was that ?

[Superhoops]

You have a very short memory. When JOS first came to man utd he had a really good season, everyone was saying promising he was. He wasnt brought to man utd for nothing FFS.

I cant remember our full squad for WC 2002 but I know for definite there are 1-2 players back then that Jos would have pushed out of the squad if we had a proper manager.

Roy Keane knows more about football than you ever will you idiot.
When O'Shea first went to MU, it was not long before he was loaned out to Royal Antwerp. In the season before the WC finals he made 9 league appearances and 3 CL appearances. He had made 1 international appearance for 6 minutes as a sub, when he gave away a penalty against Croatia. Hardly form that set the world on fire.

His 'really good season' was the season after the WC finals in 2002/03 and when he did come into the Irish team he was ordinary at best.

Dont confuse facts with passion!

Finally, agree Roy Keane does know more that I ever will about football. (despite the fact I went to Japan/Korea in 2002 and he didnt!) and if I am an idiot, notihng you, I or anyone else can do about it!

As I have posted several times previously, I want to see JOS do well for Ireland, but he is a long way short of the 'real deal' and, in the opinion of this 'idiot' the longer he stays at MU, playing the role he does, he is unlikely ever to be.

[chancer]

Guess he thought it better to play the experienced player with an outstanding talent (ie: set pieces, tho didnt work out against the Spanish :( ) rather than the promising youngster. Can't say I blame him.

[Stuttgart88]

O'Shea kept playing Duff into trouble, passing to him when he was on the touchline with 3 men around him. But I guess O'Shea wasn't the only one doing that the other night.He always does that & his unease in tight situations is really noticable from my seat, 6 rows from the pitch. That's the problem with having a right footer at left back. But he's solid enough defending.

[tricky_colour]

The right footer at leftback makes Opta team of the week (15th Aug). :D

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=298958&CPID=&CLID=&lid=1389&title=Opta+Team+of+the+Week&channel=football_home

[joeSoap]

John O'Shea
• Born: 30 April 1981, Waterford, Ireland
• Signed: Youth
• Fee: N/A
• Other Previous Clubs: N/A
• Debut: 31 Oct 1999 v Aston Villa (League Cup)

John signed professional terms with United in August 1998 and made his first team debut just over a year later, away to Aston Villa in a Worthington Cup defeat.
After making twenty appearances and scoring two goals for the Reserves over the 1998/99 and 1999/2000 seasons, John joined Second Division Bournemouth on loan in January 2000, where he earned rave reviews.

O'Shea returned to Old Trafford in March 2000, determined to break into the first team. Despite two more appearances in the Worthington Cup, away at Watford and Sunderland, it didn't quite happen for the big man, so instead he embarked on another loan spell in season 2000/01.

This time he followed in the footsteps of Luke Chadwick, Danny Higginbotham and Ronnie Wallwork by joining Royal Antwerp. Although he was first choice central defender for United's partner club in Belgium, he still found time to play international football for the Republic at Under-21 level.

John stepped up to earn his first senior cap on 15 August 2001, when he came on as an 84th minute substitute at home to Croatia. Unfortunately, the debut ended in disappointment when John gave away a penalty in injury time, enabling the visitors to make the score 2-2.

Sheasy really made his mark on the United first team in the 2002/03 season, proving his versatility by playing at left-back, right-back, centre-back and central midfield during the Reds' successful Premiership campaign. His forays down the flanks - always accompanied by nut-megs on opponents, including Real Madrid's Luis Figo - saw the birth of a new fans' chant - "When Johnny goes running down the wing, O'Shea, O'Shea."

John ended up with 32 Premiership appearances in 2002/03, at the end of which he picked up the first medal of his senior Reds career.

The versatility which had glossed John's superb debut season served only to hamper his first-team claims in a difficult 2003/04 campaign for the big Irishman.

Without a specialist position to stake a claim for, O'Shea filled in gaps wherever he could, only to find himself sidelined as soon as injuries in others healed up.

While he is yet to pin down a position to call his own in the first team, John has found the net five times since August 2003, including a stunning chip in the 4-2 win at Highbury in February 2005.

[joeSoap]

Actually, thinking about it...the simple fact that we're spending this much time talking about him, coupled with a £25,000 a week salary makes him pretty much a success, doesn't it?? :ball:

[Superhoops]

John O'Shea
• Born: 30 April 1981, Waterford, Ireland
• Signed: Youth
• Fee: N/A
• Other Previous Clubs: N/A
• Debut: 31 Oct 1999 v Aston Villa (League Cup)

etc., etc.,....


You have a very short memory. When JOS first came to man utd he had a really good season, everyone was saying promising he was. He wasnt brought to man utd for nothing FFS.

I cant remember our full squad for WC 2002 but I know for definite there are 1-2 players back then that Jos would have pushed out of the squad if we had a proper manager.

Roy Keane knows more about football than you ever will you idiot.

Thanks for this joeSoap. My memory is not a short as someone thought! :rolleyes:

[thejollyrodger]

Mick mc carthy should have brought him to the WC. Mick wouldnt know much about spotting players though :rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Mick mc carthy should have brought him to the WC. Mick wouldnt know much about spotting players though :rolleyes:
Jaysus JR, did Mick kill your hamster or something?

Given, Robbie, Duffer, Dunne, Healy & S.Reid are among those young players who got their international careers off to a good start under Mick. At club level he spent modest amounts of money very well in my opinion, including on players like Stephen Elliott.

I think Mick was too loyal to some people in picking his original world cup squad but the peripheral players wouldn't have got a look in anyway. He could have taken O'Shea but it's hardly the biggest mistake he made summer 2002, if it even was a mistake of course :).

[wallis]

At the risk of bringing some sanity to this thread riddle me this :

If you saw OShea at 18/19 and someone told you that in 5 years time he would be the starting central midfielder for Manchester United (which he is, 3 games gone and started all three) - would you consider that as failure ??

The guy is a central midfielder in the making , another season in there with RK could be the making of him, how many starts in this position has he actually had ?.

He is too relaxed on the ball for a left back but he has another 10 years in front of him- this is the season that JOS will or wont realise his potential.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe I'm giving Mick too much credit. I just read this:

Sunderland signed midfielder Christian Bassila from Strasbourg on a two-year contract. ``He plays it simple, handles the ball well and breaks things up,'' Sunderland manager Mick McCarthy told the club's Web site.

Maybe Lee Carsley was acting under Mick's orders in the Turkey play-off, home leg.

[joeSoap]

very good...

[thejollyrodger]

Jaysus JR, did Mick kill your hamster or something?

Yes. I never rated Mick, his ugly formations with duff up front, his tatical naievity (spell?) and sending our best player home from the world cup (no matter what he called him) and leaving another top player back in waterford watching all the games on the telly in the pub while our left back was having a world cup nightmare. I posted before Mick is a grafter and belongs somewhere between the division 1 and the EPL. He will never amount to anything, just pushing for promotion or fighting relegation.