John O'Shea [Archive] - Page 11

lionelhutz

23/11/2006, 9:56 AM

Den Perry

[QUOTE]

So are you telling me that a lot of guys on this site did not boo when we were one nil down at Landsowne to liechenstein? [QUOTE]

When did they go 1-0 down to liechenstein?? Did you have a dream bout this cos it never happened in reality - maybe you should actually watch the game thats in front of you rather than hallucinating all the time

bennocelt

23/11/2006, 11:19 AM

Billsthoughts

23/11/2006, 11:27 AM

tetsujin1979

23/11/2006, 12:06 PM

nedder

23/11/2006, 12:58 PM

I think it was 3-1 against Andorra. Andorra took the lead as far as i remember. but point is still valid nonetheless. fans dont have to put up with blatantly poor displays. ya pay your money ya can do what ya want. did we also go 1 nil down to Luxembourg under Charltons first campaign? cant remember.

Bill, this thread is about people booing JOS. It's one thing booing a team off after a poor display, I don't think many people have a problem with that, its another thing to boo one of our own players everytime they touch the ball... I'm sure you wouldn't agree with that:eek:

Billsthoughts

23/11/2006, 1:02 PM

osarusan

23/11/2006, 1:06 PM

Bill, this thread is about people booing JOS. It's one thing booing a team off after a poor display, I don't think many people have a problem with that, its another thing to boo one of our own players everytime they touch the ball... I'm sure you wouldn't agree with that:eek:

How about if that player, for whatever reason, is one of the main culprits in generating that poor display from the team?

nedder

23/11/2006, 1:15 PM

I dont know what you are getin at to be honest. you brought up the whole some people want the team to fail thing. Myself and Den Perry who you seem to be tryin to goad into some kinda row both agreed the booing of JOS was unjustified.

It was Den who said he was waiting for the chance to boo Stan.. If i misread that to mean he was hoping for us to do badly, I'll apologise to Den. I'm not trying to get into any kinda row with you or Den, just wanted to know where ye are coming from - look we all know Staunton was a poor appointment, my reading of it is that i think a dismal display against the cechs after Cyprus would of cost him his job, but that didn't happen.
I think people should direct their anger towards Delaney - who has exteded his contract until 2012..

nedder

23/11/2006, 1:16 PM

How about if that player, for whatever reason, is one of the main culprits in generating that poor display from the team?

Have you ever played football?

osarusan

23/11/2006, 1:27 PM

Have you ever played football?

Yes, hundreds, thousands of games. Seen about........I dont know, 700 or so Limerick FC games (if that counts as football.)

I hope your whole arguement isnt based on the fact that I have spent 2 years on this site talking about a sport I have no interest in.

But I have a few questions for everybody here........

For fans who feel it is acceptable to boo players/teams

What is your motivation behind booing players? What do you hope it will achieve?

For those who see booing players/teams as unacceptable

What do you see as the motivation of those who boo players? What do you think they hope it will achieve?

lopez

23/11/2006, 1:37 PM

...For those who see booing players/teams as unacceptable

What do you see as the motivation of those who boo players? What do you think they hope it will achieve?I must admit that booing a bad performance after a game is acceptable. I find it totally unacceptable to boo your own team during the game. Only a moron could believe that is any way constructive. Getting behind your team is possibly one way of lifting the game of the players.

As for the question? I can only assume it's frustration. In the context of Ireland it is also the inability to accept that we are not like England, with a population of 50 million to pick from with very little competition from other sports, especially at school, or the financial strength, even if we haven't lost to the b*stards in the lifetime of many on this thread.

nedder

23/11/2006, 1:38 PM

[QUOTE=osarusan;580457]Yes, hundreds, thousands of games. Seen about........I dont know, 700 or so Limerick FC games (if that counts as football.)

I hope your whole arguement isnt based on the fact that I have spent 2 years on this site talking about a sport I have no interest in.QUOTE]

Ok, I shouldn't have asked that. But In my opinion JOS shouldn't be singled out for the abuse like he is at the moment. I think you are going overboard here. At the end of the day its a team game..

I'll answer your next Q when I get the time.......

nedder

23/11/2006, 1:40 PM

I must admit that booing a bad performance after a game is acceptable. I find it totally unacceptable to boo your own team during the game. Only a moron could believe that is any way constructive. Getting behind your team is possibly one way of lifting the game of the players.

Thanks Lopez, You've just answered it for me.......

osarusan

23/11/2006, 1:50 PM

I must admit that booing a bad performance after a game is acceptable. I find it totally unacceptable to boo your own team during the game.
As for the question? I can only assume it's frustration.

Ok, I shouldn't have asked that. But In my opinion JOS shouldn't be singled out for the abuse like he is at the moment. I think you are going overboard here. At the end of the day its a team game..

Right. A couple of fair, honest answers.

Lopez, I actually have never booed players during or after a game myself, any kind of game, but I think I do understand those who do it, and I think it is acceptable during a game also, even if obviously not supportive. The frustration you mentioned might just boil over in some quicker than others.

Nedder, I havent seen some of the games in question, so cant comment on that, most seem to agree that he is bad, but not so much worse than some others.

My comments were based more towards the general idea that "if you boo the players/team, you know nothing/want them to fail" - this I disagree with.

RogerMilla

23/11/2006, 2:35 PM

celtic fans who boo telfer , sunderland fans who booed kilbane , ireland fans who boo john o'shea -- MUPPETS

you boo your bloody opponents not your own players !!
and if you do boo them its not while they are playing but after a pathetic performance !!

How many players play better when their own fans are on their back ?
dont you realise you are hurting your own team ?

It makes zero sense to me and i defy anyone to rationalise it

Billsthoughts

23/11/2006, 4:14 PM

Right. A couple of fair, honest answers.

Lopez, I actually have never booed players during or after a game myself, any kind of game, but I think I do understand those who do it, and I think it is acceptable during a game also, even if obviously not supportive. The frustration you mentioned might just boil over in some quicker than others.

Nedder, I havent seen some of the games in question, so cant comment on that, most seem to agree that he is bad, but not so much worse than some others.

My comments were based more towards the general idea that "if you boo the players/team, you know nothing/want them to fail" - this I disagree with.

eh I think orusan just did....:)

Paddy Garcia

23/11/2006, 9:07 PM

How many players play better when their own fans are on their back ?

exactly - none

Den Perry

26/11/2006, 9:04 PM

FootballsKing

05/03/2007, 9:35 AM

played for a club like Birmingham, Sunderland, Man City, or Blackburn you would all be singing his praises. I know im going to get abused for this but he would stand out and people just like to hand out fierce abuse when he makes obe mistake while others mistakes go ignored. Yes he has had alot of bad games for us down the years but Shay Given aside who hasnt? The fact is he along with Steve Finnan is the only player who plays any sort of first team football for a top 4 club and you dont do that by being an absolute shocker at the game. Most of the players you hear around here that people claim should take his international place would be nowhere near the Manchester United first team and to put it simply we have few alternatives at international level, and if any of you were international manager i sincerely doubt you would actually follow through with your claims that he should be dropped.

FootballsKing

05/03/2007, 9:39 AM

These are exactly the type of responses i expected but can you not see my point even a little bit? Yes i watched the game, saw that he was shocking but also saw ten others that were also shocking

Dodge

05/03/2007, 9:39 AM

played for a club like Birmingham, Sunderland, Man City, or Blackburn you would all be singing his praises.
If he played for those clubs people he wouldn't be in the Ireland squad. Mid level championship player at best.

Good luck to the lad though

FootballsKing

05/03/2007, 9:43 AM

colster

05/03/2007, 9:56 AM

I take it you didn't watch the San Marino game then? Subbed at half-time against amateurs.

Wasn't he injured???

Paddy Garcia

05/03/2007, 9:57 AM

I take it you didn't watch the San Marino game then? Subbed at half-time against amateurs.

If you could make 11 substitutions, they could all have come off at half time. He was no worse than anyone else. And arguably would not have made that **** up for the goal had he been in central defence.

Dr. Ogba

05/03/2007, 10:05 AM

If he played for those clubs people he wouldn't be in the Ireland squad. Mid level championship player at best.

Good luck to the lad though

To be fair if he did what McShane did and moved on from United a lot sooner I think he always had the talent to become a decent centre-half. It now seems though that he'll be blighted by the "utility-man" tag for the rest of his career...

lionelhutz

05/03/2007, 10:13 AM

if he played for one of those clubs he would be put in the same bracket as players like David Connolly or Jonathan Douglas, not in terms of talent, but in that most of you would be raging that he wasnt in the squad

Anyone who's raging that David Connolly isnt in the Irish squad should go away and get their head examined. He's a good championship player - probably cos he thinks he's better than every1 at that level - and if Sunderland get promoted Roy Keane will dump him like the piece of s**t he is

endabob1

05/03/2007, 10:14 AM

The simple problem is that he never ever plays as well for Ireland like he does for United and if you ask any proper United fans (ie. the ones who actually go to games as opposed to watching them on Sky) they will tell you that he is the most unpopular Utd player amongst the supporters because they don't think he's good enough for them.
Right place right time as far as his club goes, Fergie needed a new Phil Neville to cover half a dozen positions but I've never seen him play a full 90 minutes of note in an Ireland shirt.

olegunnar

05/03/2007, 10:57 AM

O Shea is a bit of a conundrum. Home Vs. San Marino, he stood out - as a high profile player that under-performed,looked very poor. Away to San Marino, he was injured, thats why he came off. I agree that he is UTD's current 'Phil Neville', can't decide if he's best at right back, left back, centre half or centre mid. That cannot help any player. Also, he does seem happy to take his place in the squad, as opposed to forcing his way into Fergies team, same as Wes Brown & Darren Fletcher.

As far as I'm concerned, Stan should only be calling up REGULAR match day players, these players have current form, are match fit, and are continuing to start matches, as opposed to getting 90mins for your country and none for your club!

In this regard, John would need a steady run in the Utd team in order to get into national squad.

My personal opinion is that we could all see what talent he's got, if he did get to play regularly.

eirebhoy

05/03/2007, 12:12 PM

If you could make 11 substitutions, they could all have come off at half time. He was no worse than anyone else. And arguably would not have made that **** up for the goal had he been in central defence.
Whatever about O'Shea, I don't think you could argue that he's less prone to a mistake than any of our other players. Would he have ignored Henderson's call?

fergalr

05/03/2007, 12:23 PM

Simple question - how many good games has O'Shea had in a green shirt?

gustavo

05/03/2007, 12:28 PM

Simple question - how many good games has O'Shea had in a green shirt?
Heres one. (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42533000/jpg/_42533419_ab8.jpg)

micls

05/03/2007, 12:32 PM

No i wouldn't be singing his praises. In fact if he was playing for City I doubt i'd be singing his praises

elroy

05/03/2007, 12:54 PM

I think he had to the potential to be a pretty decent player, but he never settled in one position which has ultimately led to where he is today. I think he played his best games for united when he was centre half, i cant remember the last time he was there and judging by whats in front of him it'll be a long time before he is. He's not the greatest player with the ball at his feet so dont think he can play in centre midfield.
It has been rumoured that if Sunderland come up then Roy will bring him there and i doubt fergie would offer too much resistance. The ironic thing is i think O'S is the type of player Keane was ranting about not too long ago when he said there was a number of Irish players in the premiership who were happy in their comfort zone at their club and didnt push themselves enough- O'S is a prime example of this!

as_i_say

05/03/2007, 12:54 PM

Heres one. (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42533000/jpg/_42533419_ab8.jpg)

heh good one.

O'shea-consistently the worst irish player of the last 3 years bar none. his display against san marino at home in a game we won 5-0 was utterly woeful. had a fantastic debut season for united and is in a comfort zone.

would not hesitate in saying he probably doesnt give a cr@p that he's not first choice any more at united.

ill say it again though, its up to managers not to pick him. nothing personal, nice lad, shocking performer for ireland.

Torn-Ado

05/03/2007, 1:11 PM

He's a disgrace. Not once has he performed in an Irish shirt. I can forgive club form if a player at least looks like he can put in a decent effort for Ireland but he has been consistently rubbish for us.

So f*ck him.

Collyontour

05/03/2007, 1:20 PM

played for a club like Birmingham, Sunderland, Man City, or Blackburn you would all be singing his praises.

He's consistently terrible for Ireland. I couldn't care less what club he plays for. Every game it's the same story. Crap

lionelhutz

05/03/2007, 2:14 PM

Heres one. (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42533000/jpg/_42533419_ab8.jpg)

thats a classic

Since his performance against Switzerland in the final game of the 2004 qualifiers when they lost 2-0 and he was a disgrace, he seems to have somehow gotten worse and worse for Ireland.

The fact is if Ireland had a manager who wasnt a sh**ty a*se and who didnt mind upsetting some of the prima donnas in the team, then he'd have been dropped from the squad a long time ago. His attitude is disgusting

Ordinary Fan

05/03/2007, 2:18 PM

It's bad enough that successive Irish managers pick O'Shea but it is far worse for the 'best fans in the world' behave like fU**ing idiots booing our own player.

Billsthoughts

05/03/2007, 2:29 PM

I think the Oshea criticism is way over the top. you have to remember he is always played out of position. midfield? no way. I would have him at left back or nowhere else. (I know he is originally a centre back but I dont think he was ever played there for a good reason.) the booing thing is ridiculous. people should f*ck off and live in liverpool if they want to boo man u players.
He is a talented player who hasnt really played well in a long time. needs to leave man u and get regular football in the one position.
we dont have enough talent to be dispensing with anyone.

old git

05/03/2007, 2:36 PM

He's consistently terrible for Ireland. I couldn't care less what club he plays for. Every game it's the same story. Crap

somebody in irish set up must rate him.. he is usually picked for every game.. consistently terrible for ireland !!! but you could also add a lot more names also... bit rough to try & blame him for all off irelands recent problems.. :ball: :ball:

jmurphyc

05/03/2007, 2:39 PM

i think he's a decent player (at centre back) but i agree that he needs to get a decent run of games in one position. ideally he'd go to a mid level premiership side. however, i don't see that happening as a few weeks ago he said he'd rather be a squad member of a title winning side than playing regular football elsewhere. whilst i personally think that that's a disgraceful attitude he's entitled to do what he likes. but if he was chucked out of ireland's team he might have a very different attitude but that won't happen so basically i think that we'll never see the best of him

RogerMilla

05/03/2007, 2:43 PM

o'shea needs out of united and a solid run in a premiership team in centre back. fergie will never let him go as he is too valuable as utility man , Ireland's football team is the loser here.

Paddy Garcia

05/03/2007, 3:11 PM

Whatever about O'Shea, I don't think you could argue that he's less prone to a mistake than any of our other players. Would he have ignored Henderson's call?

I am not his greatest fan. But objectively he is no worse than the rest and better than some. Over the last 12 months really it is only Given and Kilbane (there is an irony for some) who can come out with much credit. Flashes from others, 100% from these two.

... I agree he may not have ignored Henderson, but his experience may have led him to clear the ball instead of taking such a huge risk.

PS - is McShane playing CB for West Brom, I thought I saw him playing FB recently?

Risteard

05/03/2007, 3:27 PM

I think he could have made a good centre-back years ago. He's probably finished now though.
No confidence left and no position in particular to name at pinning down.
He's consistently awful.

I get the original point though.
If he was getting his game at a decent Championship club, you probably would have people saying that he's the job.

eirebhoy

05/03/2007, 3:29 PM

Yeah, McShane is playing at right back but Mowbray said he only sees him as a centre half. Just reading the West Brom forum there and they're really impressed with him.

youngirish

05/03/2007, 3:32 PM

Come back JOS all is forgiven because you scored a sh*te goal against some English club after coming on with 15 minutes to go. You are really brilliant. How could we the Irish fans have been so wrong about you?

F**k off. John O'Shea ffs. Scores a goal and the goldfish brigade are out again in force saying how good a player he is and he should be forgiven for all his (numerous) sins in an Ireland jersey. Get this. He's sh*t, he's been proven sh*t and scoring some crap goal in an English league game doesn't negate that fact. Always the same. While we're at it let's get David Connolly, Gary Breen and Gary Doherty back they all played at the weekend (and Breen scored to boot).

Seriously some people on this forum haven't a breeze. It's the same sh*te recycled over and over again. David Connolly/JOS (pick either) scores a goal, he's brilliant give him some more caps. He gets more caps is again proven sh*t argument is recycled a year later. It's like f**king Groundhog Day.

Paddy Garcia

05/03/2007, 3:44 PM

JOS all is forgiven because you scored a sh*te goal against some English club after coming on with 15 minutes to go. You are really brilliant. How could we the Irish fans have been so wrong about you.

F**k off. John O'Shea ffs. Scores a goal and the goldfish brigade are out again sayign he's a good player and he shoudl be given another chance. Get this. He's sh*t, he's been proven sh*t and scoring some crap goal in an English league game doesn't negate that fact. Always the same. While we're at it let's get David Connolly, Gary Breen and Gary Doherty back they all played at the weekend (and Breen scored to boot).

Seriously some people on this forum haven't a breeze.

Yeah, & one has just spoken.

Someone posted about Keane's management style on another forum, the Stokes one. Instead of balling him out for a mistake he encouraged him.

Well if you constantly tell half our players they are crap, don't be too surprised at the outcome. Where are you going to turn then ? It's not that we have so many players that we can afford to act with such arrogance.

OwlsFan

05/03/2007, 3:45 PM

John O'Shea has gone full circle. I remember there was pressure on Mick Mc or was it Kerr to play him because he played for Man U. Now, the theory is that because he plays for Man U he is being discriminated against :rolleyes:

I believe that 99% of Irish fans don't care who a player plays for so long as he does the business in a green shirt. Robbie K is getting a lot of stick these days from Irish fans: it's hardly because he plays for Spurs!! The club is irrelevant. O'Shea hasn't fulfilled his promise. He also has a languid style that looks as if he's casual. He's not. He's not a midfielder and I don't think he's a fullback either as both these positions need a passer of a ball which JO'S is not. It will be centre-half or nothing for JO'S and the Man U thing is irrelevant.

He hasn't been playing well for us and hence the stick. Others have been getting it as well. I haven't heard him being boohed yet though. The team yes, individuals no.

youngirish

05/03/2007, 3:49 PM

Yeah, & one has just spoken.

Someone posted about Keane's management style on another forum, the Stokes one. Instead of balling him out for a mistake he encouraged him.

Well if you constantly tell half our players they are crap, don't be too surprised at the outcome. Where are you going to turn then ? It's not that we have so many players that we can afford to act with such arrogance.

Yeah good one. It's my fault JOS is poor for Ireland. Let's all start telling JOS how good a player he is. Wrap him in cotton wool. Don't criticise him. Just tell him we love him and he's the best left back/ central midfielder, central defender, striker etc in the land. Are you for real or was that a joke? Seriously grow up and stop living in happy land.

Anyway since when did I ever say all our players were crap? JOS and Connolly certainly are. I didn't mention any of the rest of our current squad.

carloz

05/03/2007, 3:54 PM

Im a united fan and O'Shea really iritates me at times. The reason for that is that it is obvious the guy as the talent but we very rarely see it. He was phenomenal in his first season. Im worried that he is just happy to collect his wages every week and not really give 100%. However i would most definly prefer tosee him beside Carsley versus the Welsh than have Ireland beside Carsley