LoI in Europe 2024 [Archive] - Page 34

EatYerGreens

30/09/2024, 12:12 PM

Wales could have a decent league if all those clubs returned, the FAW would need to really increase prizemoney to entice them. Could raise the standards in other clubs too and raise interest levels throughout Wales

It'll never happen (unless the English structure tells them to leave). There's just too much money available for them in the English game.

EatYerGreens

30/09/2024, 12:17 PM

What is the appeal for a club like Merthyr to play in the lower leagues of England rather than play in the Welsh system?

I assume it is based more on the potential to rise further in England rather than current pros vs cons.

With Merthyr it appears to be largely just a mixture of belligerence and a view that the Welsh league is unenticing. Which it is - but it's improving fast.

There is still a lot of bad blood over the FA of Wales trying to strong-arm the 'exiled' clubs into joining its new league 30yrs ago.

The problem the Welsh system has is that its largest population centres are represented in Egland. So their crowds aren't great. It's hard to see that changing beyond relatively small increases in support.

Merthyr would prosper in the Welsh system and could have a good rivalry with Penybont/Bridgend, who are top of the CP currently. They'd much rather play weird siuburbs of English towns that you've honestly never heard of instead (including my personal favourite = 'Swindon Supermarine')

EalingGreen

30/09/2024, 1:16 PM

They won�t do it voluntarily, that�s for sure (Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham I mean) but I kind of feel that they should be forced to, if Wales wats to keep its National team.The FAW tried previously to force some of the clubs to join their new League of Wales, but iirc, they were unable to do so when the clubs took it to law. I doubt that the FAW/Cymru League would be in any better position to withstand another such legal challenge now.

While UEFA probably don't much care to get involved in such local disputes unless absolutely necessary, and certainly not at the cost of withdrawing recognition from the Wales NT.

One of those teams would probably be champions every year too, with consequent entry into the Champions league qualifiers. Wouldn�t that be better than hoping for a year in the Premier league sun every few decades ? I know if it was me I�d prefer my team to have a decent chance of winning trophies every year. I get that there�s more money in the English game, but surely those three I mentioned would do okay, and would still get good crowds if they were actually challenging for titles. Then there is the European money, and possibly a decent TV deal.So one of those teams would be Champions every season - meaning the other two wouldn't. And where's the attraction of finishing second or third in the Cymru League versus that of competing in the Championship, or even League One, never mind the hope of getting to the Prem?
In terms of crowds, money, competitive challenge and history/tradition etc, opting to switch to local Welsh football would be Jules Verne stuff (20,000 leagues under etc).

By contrast, the beauty of this proposal is that it would be "cake and eat it" i.e. retain their English league membership, while hoping for a chance at Europe via the Welsh League Cup.

Nesta99

30/09/2024, 1:18 PM

They won�t do it voluntarily, that�s for sure (Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham I mean) but I kind of feel that they should be forced to, if Wales wats to keep its National team. One of those teams would probably be champions every year too, with consequent entry into the Champions league qualifiers. Wouldn�t that be better than hoping for a year in the Premier league sun every few decades ? I know if it was me I�d prefer my team to have a decent chance of winning trophies every year. I get that there�s more money in the English game, but surely those three I mentioned would do okay, and would still get good crowds if they were actually challenging for titles. Then there is the European money, and possibly a decent TV deal.

Sets a precedence for Derry or is the argument to prevent being forced, if it were to ever come to that, giants of Brewick and Tweedmouth too for England, TNS playing in Owestry, Chester straddle the border.. Could entice Merthyr and maybe Newport over time with the European carrot if they never progress in the English system. Bound to be other crossovers that really make it too much a headache to ever bother and without looking at other European clubs that do similar. I remember some confusion when Drogheda played IK Start (Norway) but there was an IF Start from Finland that played in Sweden and for fans to be careful not to mix things up for travel.

Nesta99

30/09/2024, 1:20 PM

The FAW tried previously to force some of the clubs to join their new League of Wales, but iirc, they were unable to do so when the clubs took it to law. I doubt that the FAW/Cymru League would be in any better position to withstand another such legal challenge now.

While UEFA probably don't much care to get involved in such local disputes unless absolutely necessary, and certainly not at the cost of withdrawing recognition from the Wales NT.

So one of those teams would be Champions every season - meaning the other two wouldn't. And where's the attraction of finishing second or third in the Cymru League versus that of competing in the Championship, or even League One, never mind the hope of getting to the Prem?
In terms of crowds, money, competitive challenge and history/tradition etc, opting to switch to local Welsh football would be Jules Verne stuff (20,000 leagues under etc).

By contrast, the beauty of this proposal is that it would be "cake and eat it" i.e. retain their English league membership, while hoping for a chance at Europe via the Welsh League Cup.

I think that ruling was based on EU law, be intresting to see if the legals would be different today.

EalingGreen

30/09/2024, 1:28 PM

[Colwyn Bay FC] were THE best supported team in the Welsh structure last year btw.Aye, with an average crowd of 716 (top att. 1,411 on first home of the season, one other four figure crowd - just - and a low of 422):
https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/colwyn-bay/attendances/2023-2024

In any case, none of the present grounds could accommodate anything like the numbers that Cardiff/Swans/Wrexham might want to bring. From what I've seen, and what I've been told by someone who knows better than me, many (majority?) of Cymru League grounds are no better than what you would see in the English 7th or 8th tier. If that.

Stuttgart88

30/09/2024, 1:28 PM

All the games are on Premier Sport, wherever you can find that.
I'm sure there'll be a dodgy stream somewhere showing it, they are 10 a penny on the internet

I think that's ViaPlay in UK which I have thru my Virgin Media package but my listings for Thursday just show a blank right now.

Edit: can't find anywhere in UK to watch it.

EalingGreen

30/09/2024, 1:31 PM

I think that ruling was based on EU law, be intresting to see if the legals would be different today.UEFA frequently come up against EU law limiting what they can/cannot do, with the European Super League being just the latest.

There is NO WAY they'll risk another battle for the sake of something so piddling as this, trust me.

EatYerGreens

01/10/2024, 12:33 AM

UEFA frequently come up against EU law limiting what they can/cannot do, with the European Super League being just the latest.

There is NO WAY they'll risk another battle for the sake of something so piddling as this, trust me.

It wasn't UEFA who the legal action was taken against poreviously though, It was the Welsh FA. UEFA had no involvement (and from memory refused to get involved).

outspoken

01/10/2024, 8:41 AM

From a LOI perspective this would be bad news. Any LOI team v a Welsh club would be generally seen as a penalty kick in Europe but that goes out the window if the big Welsh clubs start entering

EalingGreen

01/10/2024, 12:01 PM

It wasn't UEFA who the legal action was taken against poreviously though, It was the Welsh FA. UEFA had no involvement (and from memory refused to get involved).I was referring to TonyD's point (#1649) about Wales "wanting to keep its NT" - only UEFA could withdraw recognition for whatever reason (not that they're going to do so over this matter).

As for the rest - you're quite correct. I dare say the FAW would like to have the big clubs involved in the League Cup, but it may be that the other Cymru League clubs could object, since it would invariably mean one European place fewer for one of them.

Buckett

01/10/2024, 12:12 PM

The article mentions distribution of European money to filter down to the other CP clubs and grassroots too. That's why the other clubs are OK with it. Plus bumper crowds too I suppose

pateen

01/10/2024, 1:16 PM

Back to Thursdays game.
Will it get close to see out?

Martinho II

01/10/2024, 4:29 PM

Back to Thursdays game.
Will it get close to see out?

I would safely say so Pateen!

placid casual

01/10/2024, 8:15 PM

It'll be nowhere near a sellout,unless 3/4000 non Rovers LOI fans turn up on the night

nigel-harps1954

01/10/2024, 9:33 PM

Quick glance at the ticket website would suggest about 5,000 tickets sold at best.

sbgawa

01/10/2024, 10:23 PM

I heard its touching 6000 now. 7k absolute max I'd say

pineapple stu

02/10/2024, 9:17 AM

Back to Thursdays game.
Will it get close to see out?
*Cough*Stjarnan v UCD tonight :) *cough*

CorribsideSteve

02/10/2024, 9:52 AM

Kiki Balboa

02/10/2024, 10:00 AM

My English mate that I've converted somewhat to LOI asked me the other day, since Jack Byrne played for APOEL too, is that the first time an LOI player has played for both sides in a European fixture? I said it could be, but there's probably someone that's done it before. Anyone know of other examples? It could involve qualyfying ties also.

Steven Lennon played for Dundalk in 2010, and against them in the Champions League Qualifiers in 2016 for FH of Iceland.

2 Year Contract

02/10/2024, 10:51 AM

My English mate that I've converted somewhat to LOI asked me the other day, since Jack Byrne played for APOEL too, is that the first time an LOI player has played for both sides in a European fixture? I said it could be, but there's probably someone that's done it before. Anyone know of other examples? It could involve qualyfying ties also.

Declan O'Brien played for Pats against Valletta in 2009, scoring both home and away against them which lead to them signing him

Another Bohemia

02/10/2024, 11:00 AM

My English mate that I've converted somewhat to LOI asked me the other day, since Jack Byrne played for APOEL too, is that the first time an LOI player has played for both sides in a European fixture? I said it could be, but there's probably someone that's done it before. Anyone know of other examples? It could involve qualyfying ties also.

Dominic Foley played for Bohs against KAA Gent. Earned a move to them as a result and I believe had a decent career in Belgium after that. Currently he's Treaty's women's team manager

outspoken

02/10/2024, 4:58 PM

Steve Lennon played for Dundalk and FH who met in Europe during the Kenny era, good player too.

Nesta99

02/10/2024, 5:22 PM

Scored in the home leg too.

Martinho II

02/10/2024, 5:39 PM

Thought occurred in my head just now with all the European ties we played!

Luke Hardy played for Carmarthen Town against us in 2005 and 3 years later played for us in 2008 season.

https://www.extratime.com/player/1049/luke_hardy/

TonyD

02/10/2024, 6:52 PM

I was referring to TonyD's point (#1649) about Wales "wanting to keep its NT" - only UEFA could withdraw recognition for whatever reason (not that they're going to do so over this matter).

As for the rest - you're quite correct. I dare say the FAW would like to have the big clubs involved in the League Cup, but it may be that the other Cymru League clubs could object, since it would invariably mean one European place fewer for one of them.

Just to be clear, I was expressing a personal opinion, I wasn�t for a second suggesting that UEFA would threaten Wales with losing its national team. We do often hear though that having a national team is dependant on having a national league (though I don�t think Lichtenstein do ?) Anyway, the British are far too historically powerful for it to be even suggested. Still think it would be a major boost to Welsh football to have its big three teams in its own league.

Another Bohemia

02/10/2024, 6:53 PM

Dominic Foley played for Bohs against KAA Gent. Earned a move to them as a result and I believe had a decent career in Belgium after that. Currently he's Treaty's women's team manager

Also forgot about Mindaugas Kalonas. Played for Riga (not sure which one) against Bohs and signed for us a few weeks later. Scored some very important goals including the winning peno in the cup final against Derry.

kksaints

02/10/2024, 7:32 PM

Also forgot about Mindaugas Kalonas. Played for Riga (not sure which one) against Bohs and signed for us a few weeks later. Scored some very important goals including the winning peno in the cup final against Derry.

One of the most talented players I saw in the league.

pineapple stu

02/10/2024, 9:09 PM

Stjarnan 3-2 UCD, so we're through 5-3 on aggregate and head to Kosovo next.

But we made tough work of that for ourselves. A 90th minute goal put a bit of gloss on things. We really struggled with the pitch and the rain didn't help either. But a win's a win!

Nah Nah Nah Nah

02/10/2024, 9:17 PM

Who do ye have next?

2 Year Contract

02/10/2024, 9:36 PM

Big news regarding prize money for Premier division LOI clubs

From Dan McDonnell on Twitter:

News: LOI Premier clubs who compete in 2024 and 2025 seasons in line to receive circa �700k (each) from UEFA in 2025 due to massive solidarity rise & once-off tweak to payment structure.

That's a significant jump from �70k-�80k each

Details here
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/loi-premier-clubs-in-line-for-700000-windfall-in-2025-due-to-dramatic-change-in-uefa-solidarity-payments/a660014187.html

He also notes that it�s for clubs that don�t reach the group stages, so it�s for 9 clubs this year, rovers excluded.

That money could be a huge boost for Dundalk in particular. It creates a bigger financial gap between premier and first divisions however

dundalkfc10

02/10/2024, 10:07 PM

2 Year Contract

02/10/2024, 10:15 PM

Any Rovers fans know what's the story with tickets for the Larne game in Windsor Park.

I'm in Belfast that day and planning to stick around and go to the game. Would prefer to go in the away end, but will go home end if I have too

I'm wondering if Larne will limit away tickets as surely they won't want Rovers having 3 or 4 times as many fans as them

Theres surely not a hope in hell rovers will bring 3 or 4 times as many as Larne to a group stage game in Belfast. Even if Larne were to bring as little as 1,000 fans (I�m sure they�ll have a lot more there), you�re talking about 3 or 4k away fans which won�t happen

pineapple stu

02/10/2024, 10:20 PM

Who do ye have next?
2 Korriku

Bit like UCD as far as I can see in that they're a second tier side, a smaller side from the capital but with a strong youth focus

They beat an Albanian side 4-2 on aggregate. I have no idea what to expect. But it's by far the easiest draw we could have gotten in the second round

Acornvilla

02/10/2024, 10:22 PM

G'wan UCD, you'd fancy them in the next round, knowing absolutely nothing. What an adventure for these kids.

joey B

02/10/2024, 10:28 PM

Big news regarding prize money for Premier division LOI clubs

From Dan McDonnell on Twitter:
He also notes that it�s for clubs that don�t reach the group stages, so it�s for 9 clubs this year, rovers excluded.

That money could be a huge boost for Dundalk in particular. It creates a bigger financial gap between premier and first divisions however

Great news for half the league,the other half can f**k off basically,not only will they massively increase the Premier league�s money they�ll reduce the First Divisions,great lads UEFA are altogether�.

pineapple stu

02/10/2024, 10:30 PM

G'wan UCD, you'd fancy them in the next round, knowing absolutely nothing. What an adventure for these kids.
If we can get through this round, it looks like Dynamo Kyiv next. In Hamburg.

That'd be good craic!

dundalkfc10

03/10/2024, 12:16 AM

One tbing it really brings home for me is what a calamity it is for Rovers to have ****ed this league away this year with the biggest squad and budget by far.
Making Group stages is next to impossible without the Champions route.
We need to get our budgets under control for next year as beating a team in the PO round for the conference is exceptionally tough if you even get that far.
Hopefully we can maximise the monry this year and get a decent squad on the pitch for next year.
Whoever wins the league between Shels and Derry this year will be the worst champions in my living memory with the lowest points total so unless they strengthen significantly will be there to be beaten.
Could be the widest open league in years next year.
Pats , Rovers (younger and fitter hopefully) , Derry . Shels probably in that order

Really? Rovers brought 3500 to London back in the day. Surely they would bring more than that 2 hours up the road

If I remember correctly they brought over a 1000 to Windsor Park in the Setanta Cup. This is a European Group stage match

Longfordian

03/10/2024, 6:59 AM

Great news for half the league,the other half can f**k off basically,not only will they massively increase the Premier league�s money they�ll reduce the First Divisions,great lads UEFA are altogether�.

It'll be extremely difficult for anyone to ever get promoted except the teams that come down. It was already extremely difficult but to put it in context 300k would probably be most of our entire budget for the season if not all of it. On top of that payment to other clubs our own money is reduced. It all feels a bit pointless at this stage for the small clubs.

Acornvilla

03/10/2024, 7:37 AM

May give the first division teams the PD prize money, I'm only half joking, the FAI will need to workshop some ideas to find a different way to redistribute other monies if this is the way forward. 20 team league anyone? :D

(I don't actually want that please don't get mad)

sbgawa

03/10/2024, 8:22 AM

UEFA didnt like the way their money was being devided up by Ireland, we are one of the few countries that were spreading it evenly all the way down the pyramid.
UEFA see the money as being to try to avoid situations where the PD teams that qualify for Europe create a moat between themselves and the rest of the Premier division.
They see the support of the lower leagues and the grass roots as being the job of the National Association.
I kind of agree with the UEFA approach even though it doesnt suit Rovers as we have been consitantly qualifying for Europe and this helps our rivals in the division that havent been qualifying regularly.
The only issue though is the FAI are broke so thye cant fulfill their part of the bargain so i think it is a regressive step at the moment in Irish football.
As Acornvilla says above the FAI can concentrate their limited resources and maybe compensate some what the FD clubs.
Next year should;nt be an issue as with the double payment the FD clubs will be better off next year even if the annual payment is less as they will get two of them.
big 700k prize for the first division playoff winner this year...........I can see the headline now "The Million euro match"

2 Year Contract

03/10/2024, 8:53 AM

Really? Rovers brought 3500 to London back in the day. Surely they would bring more than that 2 hours up the road

If I remember correctly they brought over a 1000 to Windsor Park in the Setanta Cup. This is a European Group stage match

Big difference between a thousand and four thousand. There�s a rovers fan on here who estimated they�ll bring 500 up for the Larne match. I�d imagine it�ll be somewhere in the middle of that and your estimate of 3-4k

sbgawa

03/10/2024, 9:53 AM

Calcio Jack

03/10/2024, 10:36 AM

not sure if that was me that said the 500 im starting to feel a bit more optimistic listening to people talking about travelling but the 5:45 ko is a real pain.
Day off workfor some and off School for the kids isnt easy or ideal

Numbers will be dependent on how many away tickets are available - may be as little as 950

Kingswood Rover

03/10/2024, 11:41 AM

not sure if that was me that said the 500 im starting to feel a bit more optimistic listening to people talking about travelling but the 5:45 ko is a real pain.
Day off workfor some and off School for the kids isnt easy or ideal

We had 600 at that Linfield away game and 50 muppets. I think we would get about 1200 travelling to the Larne game and twice that for Chelsea. Lots of fans also going to Vienna.