View Full Version : LoI in Europe 2024
RealJohn91
23/08/2024, 12:13 AM
Lol yeah we didn't push it home at all shame we missed out on winning the league in 23 and 24......lols. missing out on winning the champions league last year was disappointing but I think real Madrid had a bit to much for us
So I take it you don't trust Bradley seeing as you didn't actually answer that question.
Nesta99
23/08/2024, 12:17 AM
Not snarky at all, just thought it was worth reminding people on here that the level your playing at is below both champions league and even Europa league.
Best of luck in turkey next week you'll need it.
No pressure then going in to the Conference League for Rovers. Unless Roers get horror draws (there is this new format for Conference also isnt there), if they struggle in games against the lower seeded sides this wont age well.
RealJohn91
23/08/2024, 12:28 AM
the only Irish manager to qualify for 2 group stages as well,as having the most wins in European ties Of any Irish team is…….. a terrible European manager(also only manager to win 4 leagues in a row). Ok real John , send the cv into Tolka or the Brandy and qualify for CL next season so.
ya clown
He's pretty clearly a terrible European manager. What's his landmark result? Brann? And that was five years ago now. With a couple of dreadful defeats to Estonian and Icelandic teams along the way. Almost never being remotely competitive against even marginally better teams too. Just look at the result Kenny got tonight in Tallaght of all places, not a chance Bradley could've done similar.
Olander
23/08/2024, 12:53 AM
P.S. I hope we destroy your u19s in Oriel. My 5 year old son was watching the 2nd half with me and recognised the St Pat's crest and I had a nightmare trying to explain to him why I wanted St Pat's to do well tonight but lose miserably on Sunday...
"Coefficients son, that's for another day."
Pats U19s, I'm not sure if you're joking or not?
After all the moaning Kenny did, they could still play a very competent XI against us with 9 changes. Most of the players that started against us would walk into teams outside the top 4: Kazeem, Leavy, Nolan, Kavanagh, Turner, Keeley. It probably puts the level of under performance at Pats this season into context.
They're pumping serious money in and with the 5 year contract Kenny has received and the backing he got in July, it's obvious they will be a force next year.
sbgawa
23/08/2024, 5:01 AM
He's pretty clearly a terrible European manager. What's his landmark result? Brann? And that was five years ago now. With a couple of dreadful defeats to Estonian and Icelandic teams along the way. Almost never being remotely competitive against even marginally better teams too. Just look at the result Kenny got tonight in Tallaght of all places, not a chance Bradley could've done similar.
Your getting better :). Landmark result 5 years ago???? I thought LAST WEEK was pretty good ....
On the trust question, of course I don't trust Bradley, how could you trust a fella who has only won 4 leagues and a cup in 5 years as well as group stages twice.
Any chance you'd step up, champions league win is minimum expectation though and 5 in a row
sbgawa
23/08/2024, 5:05 AM
Great performance by Pats going to be tough out there but you would have probably took going out there with a draw pre match. at least they are still in with a shout of groups. If they did could we draw each other? Is that allowed?
2 Year Contract
23/08/2024, 6:31 AM
Great performance by Pats going to be tough out there but you would have probably took going out there with a draw pre match. at least they are still in with a shout of groups. If they did could we draw each other? Is that allowed?
No, you can’t play clubs from your own country in the group stages in the past or the league stage now
2 Year Contract
23/08/2024, 6:33 AM
Should be noted for those that think Kenny looking for the game on Sunday to be postponed is ‘moaning’ that Istanbul Basaksehir have had their game postponed on the weekend to give them the best chance to get through…
Larne have had the same done. Haven’t looked at any other leagues but they’re just two that I’ve heard of for the ‘no other leagues in Europe would postpone games’ brigade
MichaelCherrito
23/08/2024, 8:28 AM
Same for Galatasaray and the Swiss clubs who don't play over the weekend.
Viktoria Plzen, who play Hearts, have had their weekend match postponed.
placid casual
23/08/2024, 8:29 AM
Ah you’re very good. Thanks for the insightful reminder that the conference league is a lower level than the champions league and Europa league. I must keep that one in the bank to discredit any result rovers may pick up in the group stages on the basis of it not being as good a level as those competitions regardless of opposition.
Pull the other one ffs, by that logic, as a one off result (not talking prize money wise) if Pats had drawn 0-0 with Bosnian side Borac Banja Luka in the Europa league tonight it would’ve been a better result than drawing 0-0 with Chelsea in the conference league
I wasn't seeking to discredit the commendable 1st leg draw at home to superior opposition in any way. Pats played well and as mentioned before id imagine they'll be a threat in the league next season.
It's the fawning over kenny getting a good 1st round draw after getting a commendable win over 2 legs against 10 men, twice.
The real test will be next week in Turkey and I'm not being snide or snarky when I say best if luck to you - it'll be great to have 2 LOI teams in the Conference league.
D24Saint
23/08/2024, 8:41 AM
Not snarky at all, just thought it was worth reminding people on here that the level your playing at is below both champions league and even Europa league.
Best of luck in turkey next week you'll need it.
A seriously bitter post when there is no need for it.
Kiki Balboa
23/08/2024, 8:43 AM
They're pumping serious money in and with the 5 year contract Kenny has received and the backing he got in July, it's obvious they will be a force next year.
..... In the First Division....?
placid casual
23/08/2024, 8:46 AM
On an unrelated note, would dundalk not be amenable to postponing the upcoming game on Sunday against Pats- I always got the impression there's still a lot of goodwill towards Kenny,no?
pineapple stu
23/08/2024, 8:57 AM
Not snarky at all, just thought it was worth reminding people on here that the level your playing at is below both champions league and even Europa league.
Best of luck in turkey next week you'll need it.
I mean, they're also unbeaten in it whereas Rovers were a penalty kick away from being knocked out by a part-time Icelandic side for the second year in a row and have just been absolutely ****ed on by the first half-decent team they've met.
I think you can pick your fights slightly better than that tbf.
holidaysong
23/08/2024, 9:10 AM
Pats U19s, I'm not sure if you're joking or not?
After all the moaning Kenny did, they could still play a very competent XI against us with 9 changes. Most of the players that started against us would walk into teams outside the top 4: Kazeem, Leavy, Nolan, Kavanagh, Turner, Keeley. It probably puts the level of under performance at Pats this season into context.
I was exaggerating alright. But their team will surely be weaker on Sunday now based on that result, than it might have been if they'd been tanked 4-0.
In our current predicament, we need to take any extra opportunity to get some points.
holidaysong
23/08/2024, 9:12 AM
On an unrelated note, would dundalk not be amenable to postponing the upcoming game on Sunday against Pats- I always got the impression there's still a lot of goodwill towards Kenny,no?
There's no place for goodwill in a relegation battle. I've not seen one Dundalk fan suggest that we should agree to postpone.
placid casual
23/08/2024, 9:14 AM
I mean, they're also unbeaten in it whereas Rovers were a penalty kick away from being knocked out by a part-time Icelandic side for the second year in a row and have just been absolutely ****ed on by the first half-decent team they've met.
I think you can pick your fights slightly better than that tbf.
A response that only highlights the skewed view of most on here about Rovers "achievements" , citing PAOK as the 1st half decent team Rovers met. A real student would have noted that of the teams Rovers have faced in Europe this year ,ALL of them are still in European competition so perhaps,just perhaps it wasn't just pub teams Rovers have faced.
Unless I'm mistaken Rovers have only played teams who have won their leagues so far.
On an unrelated note, would dundalk not be amenable to postponing the upcoming game on Sunday against Pats- I always got the impression there's still a lot of goodwill towards Kenny,no?
Not a chance Dundalk would agree. They are in a relegation dogfight, with a chance to play against a probably weakened Pats team. They’ll do what’s best for them, and I don’t really have an issue with that tbh. Ideally we wouldn’t have to play on Sunday, but so be it. I don’t think Kenny is uniquely “whinging” btw. I expect most managers in his position would make the same point.
dundalkfc10
23/08/2024, 9:23 AM
There's no place for goodwill in a relegation battle. I've not seen one Dundalk fan suggest that we should agree to postpone.
Word is the game is going to be called off anyway at some stage today.
Them clowns are protesting about migrants in town on Sunday and supposedly the Gardai haven't the numbers to police both events
sbgawa
23/08/2024, 9:35 AM
That's an absolute disgrace if that happens, guarantee I'd there was a GAA match on it wouldn't be cancelled. Typical of the contempt we are held in, although I'll postpone my rant until it happens :)
dundalkfc10
23/08/2024, 9:39 AM
That's an absolute disgrace if that happens, guarantee I'd there was a GAA match on it wouldn't be cancelled. Typical of the contempt we are held in, although I'll postpone my rant until it happens :)
Dodge the Pats fan on Twitter seems like he has been told that's the reason it's going to be called off
The Louth Senior Championship is starting Sunday too with 3 games on during the day, but to be honest I've never seen a Gardai at a club match in Louth unless it was a semi final or final
Acornvilla
23/08/2024, 9:40 AM
I think there's no issue with Dundalk and before them Galway pushing to play the matches, but I think it's a decision the FAI should have taken out of everyone's hands and made a ruling on. Given both teams are out of the cup there is plenty of time left in the season to refix it. There should be a portion of all Euro money won ringfenced to compensate clubs who get their fixtures moved or something to soften the blow.
I'm a big believer in something like 10% of all euro money won by clubs being redistributed in to the rest of the league, but that's another conversation for another day.
The season needs to be extended by a fortnight probably and a lot of this would be less of a problem, if clubs in the PD are already operating on 52 week contracts.
Kiki Balboa
23/08/2024, 9:46 AM
Guards never miss an excuse to not do work....
pineapple stu
23/08/2024, 9:54 AM
A response that only highlights the skewed view of most on here about Rovers "achievements" , citing PAOK as the 1st half decent team Rovers met. A real student would have noted that of the teams Rovers have faced in Europe this year ,ALL of them are still in European competition so perhaps,just perhaps it wasn't just pub teams Rovers have faced.
Unless I'm mistaken Rovers have only played teams who have won their leagues so far.
Of course they're all still in Europe this year - Champions League have to get knocked out about 17 times to be eliminated from Europe. Let's see how Rovers manage in the Conference League next year.
Both Viking and Celje have beaten Flora Tallinn (a good side, you'll no doubt tell us!) and Viking also beat Egnatia from Albania. That's it. Celje lost to Pyunik of Armenia in the play-off round last night; Viking beat an Andorran side. Sabah or Vaduz would probably be a stronger side than Viking. The Azeri league is ranked ahead of the Slovenian league too.
Though I am wrong that Rovers got ****ed on by the first half-decent side they met alright. They got ****ed on by the second half-decent side they met; I'd forgotten the Sparta Prague drubbing.
The idea that Rovers' results out-do Pat's results purely because of the competition they were in (with no reference to the opposition, the actual results, the performances, etc) doesn't stack up. (Which, to be clear, is the point I'm arguing. Ye're in the groups and well done - the new format is designed to really encourage that)
Kiki Balboa
23/08/2024, 9:54 AM
https://x.com/DundalkFC/status/1826918383230578978?t=g2C2iwL2HI5V9CiLqN2ydQ&s=19
Dundalk still think it is on.
Maybe all just rumours.
Kiki Balboa
23/08/2024, 10:13 AM
Of course they're all still in Europe this year - Champions League have to get knocked out about 17 times to be eliminated from Europe. Let's see how Rovers manage in the Conference League next year.
Both Viking and Celje have beaten Flora Tallinn (a good side, you'll no doubt tell us!) and Viking also beat Egnatia from Albania. That's it. Celje lost to Pyunik of Armenia in the play-off round last night; Viking beat an Andorran side. Sabah or Vaduz would probably be a stronger side than Viking. The Azeri league is ranked ahead of the Slovenian league too.
Though I am wrong that Rovers got ****ed on by the first half-decent side they met alright. They got ****ed on by the second half-decent side they met; I'd forgotten the Sparta Prague drubbing.
The idea that Rovers' results out-do Pat's results purely because of the competition they were in (with no reference to the opposition, the actual results, the performances, etc) doesn't stack up. (Which, to be clear, is the point I'm arguing. Ye're in the groups and well done - the new format is designed to really encourage that)
I don't see how it is controversial to say Kenny has an excellent record in Europe, while Bradley has been disappointing.
Rovers have been there consistently, and have had a lot of parachutes into the other competitions. They have a fair few bad results, and no great ones really.
They fail the eye test too in Europe, often look so easy to beat once they go up a standard. Ties are normally always over after the first leg against anyway decent teams. That's the most disappointing thing with Bradley and Rovers. They just can't keep things tight.
They could be worse, but really they don't stack up at all to Kenny (who inexplicably decided to play a much more bullsh*tty brand of football for Ireland).
When you really analyse it, they have been helped massively by the UEFA changes and their consistency in the LOI, which have helped build their coefficients, to get some easier draws. They can go through to the group stages now while always being the seeded team, which is their main achievement, and shouldn't be sneezed at.
If it wasn't for that, there would have been a lot of one-and-done Champions League ties (where Rovers have done very little), like before.
Acornvilla
23/08/2024, 10:18 AM
Bradley's stats are definitely skewed in that he's managed the best team in the easiest period there has ever been to win rounds in Europe as champions. He deserves immense credit for building Rovers in to that team initially and maintaining it, but there's been as many disappointing losses to middling small sides in Europe in matches where I think peak LOI champions of old Shels/Drogheda/Bohs and Dundalk would have won, than there has been unexpected positive results, with the occasional absolute hammering in there. He's doing par at best with what he has to work with IMO. I think attempts to be overly critical or positive about his and Rovers' record are off the mark.
Pat's run this season is very impressive even if they get hammered in Turkey now. 3 wins and 2 draws in 5 matches does not happen very often. I am old enough to remember no one really expecting them to beat Vaduz :D
pineapple stu
23/08/2024, 10:46 AM
Are there full coefficient points in playoff games?
No - they're still qualifying round games.
On that note actually, we remain in 33rd after the recent games, though Kosovo are only 0.041 ahead of us. They only have Drita left though, who lost 2-0 away to Legia in the Conference League play-offs last night and are unlikely to make the groups. So effectively unless we lose every game between now and the end of the season (possible, but highly unlikely you'd hope!) we'll be up to 32nd.
Moldova are next in line, but they're 2.000 ahead of us and Petrocub are also in the Conference League groups. So we'd need to get four group wins more than them to catch them - which isn't going to happen.
Armenia are one place and 0.500 behind us - they have two teams in the Conference League play-offs, and both won last night. FC Noah won 3-0 against Slovakian opposition so barring a disaster they'll be in the groups. Pyunik beat Celje 1-0 so that one is more finely balanced. They're having a fantastic season - fifth in the UEFA standings this season, albeit with the bigger leagues yet to even start - and they could easily catch us yet. 0.500 is just one group stage win.
Latvia and Iceland are also within a point of us and both will have teams in the group stages - RFS (who beat APOEL 2-1 in the Europa League play-offs last night - they probably won't hold that in Cyprus, though ironically coefficient-wise it's better to be in the Conference League groups anyway; more chance of results) and Viking, who are 5-0 up on Santa Coloma.
Then you have other countries ranked below us who'll have teams in the groups -
Finland or the Faroes, both 1.250 behind us. KÍ 2-2 HJK was the first leg in the Conference League play-offs last night
Bosnia, 1.875 behind us. Borac Banja Luka drew 0-0 in Hungary in the Europa League play-offs last night, but are guaranteed the Conference League groups
Wales (in all probability), 5.833 behind us. TNS won 3-0 in Lithuania in the Conference League play-offs last night
Belarus, 6.500 behind us. Dinamo Minsk lost 1-0 at home to Anderlecht in the Europa League play-offs last night, but are guaranteed the Conference League groups
The North or Gibraltar, 4.517 and 6.543 behind us respectively. Lincoln Red Imps beat Larne 2-1 at home in the Conference League play-offs last night
Kazakhstan and Lithuania both still have clubs too but they lost 2-0 and 3-0 last night so they're not going any further.
Interesting to note Serbia's slump continues - they're the joint lowest-ranked nation in the entire of Europe this year, alongside Liechtenstein, and behind even San Marino. All three sides lost this week - their record this year is 2 wins and 1 draw from 13 games. We're 23rd overall this year, but will fall a few places as the likes of Switzerland and Turkey enter the tournament. Could well still end the year in the top 30 I'd say.
Also, Russia's ranking appears no longer protected - they score 0.000 for this year, compared to 4.333 for the last two years. If they're still banned next year that means they'll be dropping down to within range of us. Though it's moot I guess so long as they're banned. When they're let back in (which I assume will happen at some stage) they'll be nasty unseeded teams though.
Acornvilla
23/08/2024, 10:54 AM
Looking like we drop behind Armenia but pass Kosovo before the year is out and stay in 33rd. With Rovers seeded in 4th, you'd hope they get at least a win and a draw somewhere along the way in the groups to stay ahead of the chasing pack, they are long overdue a group stage win. I am not expecting a Pat's miracle, but lets light a candle anyway. I won't be surprised if Rovers get a result in Tallaght next week, PAOK will likely take it handy.
CorribsideSteve
23/08/2024, 11:17 AM
Lol yeah we didn't push it home at all shame we missed out on winning the league in 23 and 24......lols. missing out on winning the champions league last year was disappointing but I think real Madrid had a bit to much for us
I'm pretty sure he was referring to Europe where the last 2 seasons since the '22 conference group stages have repeatedly shown Rovers flatter to deceive.
legendz
23/08/2024, 11:19 AM
Did Pat's push for their first leg to be on a Wednesday? The six day turnaround is the cause of the problem. For seven day turnarounds, league games should go ahead. Pat's ideally should be playing Thursday to Thursday in Europe.
pineapple stu
23/08/2024, 11:28 AM
I'm pretty sure he was referring to Europe where the last 2 seasons since the '22 conference group stages have repeatedly shown Rovers flatter to deceive.
While I'd say that's the larger part of it, Rovers haven't exactly pressed things home in the league either. Instead they've been allowing others to consistently catch up with the inevitable conclusion seen this year. Partly that's because there's been little enough investment in the squad - and when Bradley did have to rebuild, he effectively replaced Alan Mannus with Lee Steacy, and promoted Pohls to number 1, which most Rovers fans here have criticised.
Next season, with Kenny having put his stamp on the Pat's squad and (in all probability) Derry or Shels having the Champions League money will be interesting.
BTW, highlights of the Rovers game are below. Will have a root around for Pat's too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpWI8m9fGiY
pineapple stu
23/08/2024, 11:28 AM
Pat's highlights -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2l5ftHrQeY
CamacSaint91
23/08/2024, 11:32 AM
Did Pat's push for their first leg to be on a Wednesday? The six day turnaround is the cause of the problem. For seven day turnarounds, league games should go ahead. Pat's ideally should be playing Thursday to Thursday in Europe.
Not at all. 3 teams from Istanbul all in european competitions this week and all at home 2nd leg so games had to be moved around
dundalkfc10
23/08/2024, 11:44 AM
Did Pat's push for their first leg to be on a Wednesday? The six day turnaround is the cause of the problem. For seven day turnarounds, league games should go ahead. Pat's ideally should be playing Thursday to Thursday in Europe.
I think it's on Weds as there is another Conference league game in Turkey Thursday night and also a Europa League tie
patsdad
23/08/2024, 11:48 AM
Did Pat's push for their first leg to be on a Wednesday? The six day turnaround is the cause of the problem. For seven day turnarounds, league games should go ahead. Pat's ideally should be playing Thursday to Thursday in Europe.
There are 3 European games in Istanbul next week. They must be played on different days and UEFA decides which is which.
holidaysong
23/08/2024, 11:57 AM
Also, Russia's ranking appears no longer protected - they score 0.000 for this year, compared to 4.333 for the last two years. If they're still banned next year that means they'll be dropping down to within range of us. Though it's moot I guess so long as they're banned. When they're let back in (which I assume will happen at some stage) they'll be nasty unseeded teams though.
UEFA have assigned their 4.333 at the end of the season in the last couple of years. I'd expect them to just do the same again. Most sites put it as 0.000 until it's officially confirmed.
Glen Of Aherlow
23/08/2024, 12:22 PM
anyone hear anything about the Dundalk v Pats game possibly being called off on Sunday due to a usual suspect scumbags anti immigrant protest arranged in the town for an hour before kick off ?
legendz
23/08/2024, 1:26 PM
There are 3 European games in Istanbul next week. They must be played on different days and UEFA decides which is which.
Pat's possibly could have pushed for the first leg to be on Wednesday as well? Then they could play Dundalk on Saturday with 4 days for the second leg.
I don't see how it is controversial to say Kenny has an excellent record in Europe, while Bradley has been disappointing.
Rovers have been there consistently, and have had a lot of parachutes into the other competitions. They have a fair few bad results, and no great ones really.
They fail the eye test too in Europe, often look so easy to beat once they go up a standard. Ties are normally always over after the first leg against anyway decent teams. That's the most disappointing thing with Bradley and Rovers. They just can't keep things tight.
They could be worse, but really they don't stack up at all to Kenny (who inexplicably decided to play a much more bullsh*tty brand of football for Ireland).
When you really analyse it, they have been helped massively by the UEFA changes and their consistency in the LOI, which have helped build their coefficients, to get some easier draws. They can go through to the group stages now while always being the seeded team, which is their main achievement, and shouldn't be sneezed at.
If it wasn't for that, there would have been a lot of one-and-done Champions League ties (where Rovers have done very little), like before.
Important point to note also, if the ECL and changes to parachute system was around 2017 onwards, you would have had a good chance of Cork City making the group stages in 2018, Dundalk in 2019 (and possibly 2017 also).
Winning the league now, its almost impossible to fxxx up not getting to the Conference Group stages, via that route, much harder on the journey Pats are on, serious hard games to get to the play off, and now only 90 mins away, but that said odds are stacked against them, maybe 30/70, but they have a chance.
2 Year Contract
23/08/2024, 2:37 PM
Pat's possibly could have pushed for the first leg to be on Wednesday as well? Then they could play Dundalk on Saturday with 4 days for the second leg.
You can’t just push for UEFA games to be changed. Conference league and Europa League games are always set for Thursday nights barring exceptions with city clashes like in this case. UEFA decide the dates and UEFA games will always take precedence over league games regardless of the country involved. It’s up to competently ran league organisers to amend their schedule to help their clubs and its players as they see fit, as the Turkish League have done for their clubs, rather than making them play 3 games in 5 and a half days, two of which will determine European tournament qualification
Kiki Balboa
23/08/2024, 4:25 PM
So the FAI it seems now have postponed the game, with just one full day of notice
Joke shop.
2 Year Contract
23/08/2024, 4:31 PM
Common sense prevails. The only ridiculous thing is that it took this late to make the decision. If anything it just shows pure disrespect to Pats by the league in assuming they’d get tanked last night
Jack B
23/08/2024, 4:32 PM
Only the FAI could go about making a sensible decision in the most haphazard way possible.
That's a shocking decision and to make it so late based on a complaint from Pats. There was no move to cancel Dundalk's fixture v Rovers pre EL Group Stage play off in 2020, we fielded a weakened side and lost 4-0 to Rovers, and won the play off a few days later.
Louth4sam
23/08/2024, 5:02 PM
Dundalk really getting screwed over by this decision so late in the day. We'll now go 21 days without a game, will play a stronger Pats team than Drogheda will next Sunday and are losing out on revenue. Precedent was set by not cancelling the Galway match and FAI move the goal posts again.
No issue with the game being called off if it was done with plenty of notice as teams should be helped as much as possible in Europe and Dundalk had games called off in our favour previously but a decision like this could be a factor in getting us relegated.
placid casual
23/08/2024, 5:07 PM
2 things
(1) Kenny clearly still has pull within the FAI, which seems logical given he was the previous international manager.
(2) It gives licence to any LOI team to get league/cup tie taking place between European legs postponed, particularly if the 2nd leg is geographically far from Ireland.
If the FAI thought Rovers were seeking to undermine the FAI decision making process (devoy case) they've seen nothing yet..
A farcical organization that's needs LOI football to divorce itself from
D24Saint
23/08/2024, 5:08 PM
I'm obviously delighted but the FAI have a lot to answer for with how they handled it. Its harsh on Dundalk so late in the day. It should have been done differently.
Louth4sam
23/08/2024, 5:10 PM
(2) It gives licence to any LOI team to get league/cup tie taking place between European legs postponed, particularly if the 2nd leg is geographically far from Ireland.
But the FAI refused to cancel Pats away to Galway. The rules are made up as they go along.
Kiki Balboa
23/08/2024, 5:43 PM
Raging at the manner of this. Wouldn't have cared if it was postponed straight away but no, they have to drag it out.
The pure disrespect shown to Dundalk is beyond a joke, time and time again.
Kenny is a pure snake of a man too.
The FAI has clearly broken their own rules just for St. Pats crying.
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