LoI in Europe 2024

[sbgawa]

Looks like we might have been better off if they had scored that Peno in Tallaght after all.
They play Flora a team beaten 5 nil by the team we have to play and then have Andoran opposition to make Groups while we have to fly to the ends of the earth .....if it wasnt for bad luck we wouldnt have any luck at all

[Nesta99]

Not so sure about the schedules in USA.
For NFL at least, the regular season consists of just 17 games. Thereafter those teams which make the play-offs play 3 more games (max) to make the Superbowl. And remember, with all the stoppages etc, it generally takes them 3 hours to complete a 60 minute game (good for sales of beer and hotdogs, mind!) While I'm not aware of any equivalent to Cup games, whether domestic or Continental. Plus the teams are divided geographically into two Conferences.
Major League Baseball teams do play tons of matches, but there's nowhere near the same physical demands on them. Ditto Basketball (obv).
The NHL guys do play loads of games, mind - it's a helluva tough game, but I'm not sure how they cope?

Meanwhile, I can't comment on the demands which GAA games make on their participants, but Rugby, while an incredibly tough sport, is not quite as you describe it (imo). For one thing, they aren't actually "crashing into each other full pelt for 80 minutes" - what with all the scrums, lineouts and restarts etc, the ball is only actually in play for around half that time (Or 38 minutes in the English Premiership last season, to be precise). And that actuallyrepresents an increase in recent years - in the 1995 World Cup, it was just under 26 minutes!

Then add in the ever increasing use of substitutes, which must relieve the burden on struggling players.

Again, can't comment on LOI players, but Football everywhere, and esp so at the higher levels, requires ever higher levels of fitness if players are to perform to their maximum over the course of a season.

Granted you don't get the same physical contact, but the ball is in play for much longer on average, the distances being covered are getting ever longer, while crucially, there are more high intensity sprints than ever before. This last makes them ever more prone to injury, esp in the latter stages of games, so that even if a player is physically "fit" to play the next game, very often he's carrying minor knocks and strains into each game.

Which is not to feel "sorry" for them - most players can physically cope with 50+ games a season, but it is impossible to maintain optimum fitness and sharpness over that period - esp when the off-season break is getting ever shorter.

I was thinking of NHL mainly, the better hald being Canadian Iv little choice. I was being a tad basic on my rugby description but I wont be convinced that the toll taken due to the physicality of thats sport is not greater than soccer irresepctive of ball in play times. I take the point on subs ut thats a more recent development. LoI and the British type game is faster and more physical than many other leagues but intensity differs albeit the high press of todays game does make a difference compared to the possession based slow build of say Italian football past and the same arguments on scheduling were made. Recent Euros a lot of made of English fatigue yet player for player they had less minutes than 4 or 5 other countries. You could look at tennis, cycling tours et where day after day the participants are dealing with high loads. Anyway I think too much is made of the issue - if the argument was more about preparing tactically than recovery, Id have a greater acceptance.

[holidaysong]

For what it's worth, Rovers wouldn't have drawn Flora in the 3rd qualifying round of the Conference League, as Rovers would have been seeded. In an alternative universe, they'd have been able to draw one of these four;

FC Ballkani
Decic Tuzi
Larne
Ordabasy Shymkent

They might still have had to face Ordabasy Shymkent in both timelines... #Destiny

[Jolly Red Giant]

Not so sure about the schedules in USA.
For NFL at least, the regular season consists of just 17 games. Thereafter those teams which make the play-offs play 3 more games (max) to make the Superbowl. And remember, with all the stoppages etc, it generally takes them 3 hours to complete a 60 minute game (good for sales of beer and hotdogs, mind!) While I'm not aware of any equivalent to Cup games, whether domestic or Continental. Plus the teams are divided geographically into two Conferences.
Major League Baseball teams do play tons of matches, but there's nowhere near the same physical demands on them. Ditto Basketball (obv).
The NHL guys do play loads of games, mind - it's a helluva tough game, but I'm not sure how they cope?

Meanwhile, I can't comment on the demands which GAA games make on their participants, but Rugby, while an incredibly tough sport, is not quite as you describe it (imo). For one thing, they aren't actually "crashing into each other full pelt for 80 minutes" - what with all the scrums, lineouts and restarts etc, the ball is only actually in play for around half that time (Or 38 minutes in the English Premiership last season, to be precise). And that actuallyrepresents an increase in recent years - in the 1995 World Cup, it was just under 26 minutes!

Then add in the ever increasing use of substitutes, which must relieve the burden on struggling players.

Again, can't comment on LOI players, but Football everywhere, and esp so at the higher levels, requires ever higher levels of fitness if players are to perform to their maximum over the course of a season.

Granted you don't get the same physical contact, but the ball is in play for much longer on average, the distances being covered are getting ever longer, while crucially, there are more high intensity sprints than ever before. This last makes them ever more prone to injury, esp in the latter stages of games, so that even if a player is physically "fit" to play the next game, very often he's carrying minor knocks and strains into each game.

Which is not to feel "sorry" for them - most players can physically cope with 50+ games a season, but it is impossible to maintain optimum fitness and sharpness over that period - esp when the off-season break is getting ever shorter.
Just to expand a little - the NFL play 17 regular season games over 18 weeks (each team has a bye-week) and can play up to four games in the play-offs (if you have to play in wild-card weekend). The also play 4-5 pre-season games but the regular starters usually only play about 1 1/2 to 2 of those games. There is constant conflict between the NFL team owners and the NFL players union over the number of games played - because of the high volume of serious injuries that occur in the NFL - it is by far the most physical team sport in the world (much more physical than rugby because of the explosive power of the players in the NFL - rugby is more of a grinding game based on endurance - only a handful of rugby players have ever made an NFL roster and they haven't lasted long).

The NHL plays 82 regular season games plus play-offs - and while fast and there are fights, its not in any way as physical as the NFL. The NBA is actually quite physical and the injuries in the NBA come second to the NFL - the NBA also has 82 regular season games. The MLB has 162 regular season games played over six months - it is quite a laid back sport with pitchers suffering more injuries than other players.

IMO the GAA makes way too many demands on their players - while amateurs, the are effectively training as professionals. Furthermore, the GAA is increasing the number of games being played for TV money. I think what the GAA are doing at the moment is unsustainable - something will have to give at some stage.

Ealing is correct about the changing nature of soccer - current players have to be a lot fitter than players 50 years ago - but these days professional footballers have a huge support network around them (particularly the higher up the food chain you go) - trainers, physios, dieticians etc etc and each player has their own personal programme that they must follow. The LOI is at the lower end of the professional ladder and as a result LOI players would not have the same level of back-up support (it is something that LOI clubs should focus far more on) - the less support, the less individualised programmes for players and the more potential for injuries. The increased use of substitutes is a welcome addition that will help players avoid injuries and reduce the risk of exacerbating an injury (the first time subs were allowed was in 1958 and for a couple of decades generally only happened because of injury - two were allowed in 1994, because of PL, and it increased to 3 in 1995 and to 4 in 2016).

[Jolly Red Giant]

I was being a tad basic on my rugby description but I wont be convinced that the toll taken due to the physicality of thats sport is not greater than soccer irresepctive of ball in play times.
The injuries suffered by rugby players are different to those suffered by soccer players - rugby players suffer more injuries and they are generally contact injuries (injuries of the head, neck, shoulder, and upper extremity). In soccer 65% of all injuries are to lower limbs and soccer players tend to have a higher injury rate in training.

Going back to my complaint about the GAA - GAA players are up to 2.6 times more likely to be injured than soccer players but slightly less than rugby - however GAA players are significantly more likely to be injured in training than rugby players.

[EalingGreen]

Shels fined €21,250 by UEFA for fan behaviour in Gibraltar - primarily because their fans outraged the locals by singing ‘Gibraltar is Spanish’ Per Dan McDonnell …..
Morata & Rodri banned for 'Gibraltar is Spanish' chant, following a complaint by the Gibraltar FA

One game ban (NL vs Serbia next month), for:
"[Leading the chanting] in front of tens of thousands of Spain fans in Cibeles Square, Madrid on 15 July as players celebrated their 2-1 Euro 2024 final victory over England."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8xle8e7ngno

[Mr_Parker]

I may have missed the reasoning, but I'm surprised that St Pats will be using Tallaght given the change in the UEFA ground criteria regs for Q3 this season. Can anyone explain?

[pineapple stu]

Not sure what's to explain? Richmond doesn't meet the standard but Tallaght does. There's a step-up at the third round, and it catches quite a lot of clubs. UCD had Tallaght booked in 2015, Derry played there last year, Dundalk have played there too.

[Mr_Parker]

Not sure what's to explain? Richmond doesn't meet the standard but Tallaght does. There's a step-up at the third round, and it catches quite a lot of clubs. UCD had Tallaght booked in 2015, Derry played there last year, Dundalk have played there too.

Yes I understand what happened in previous years, but this season UEFA relaxed the requirements considerably. E.g. Larne are playing their Q3 game at their home ground tomorrow night, and had any other Irish League teams had progressed they too could play at their home venue. In previous years they would have had to use Windsor Park.

[EalingGreen]

Yes I understand what happened in previous years, but this season UEFA relaxed the requirements considerably. E.g. Larne are playing their Q3 game at their home ground tomorrow night, and had any other Irish League teams had progressed they too could play at their home venue. In previous years they would have had to use Windsor Park.

I think your general point (relaxation) is correct, but as a Category 2 Stadium, Larne expected to be able to use Inver Park last time round.

However the artificial pitch, not the stadium generally proved inadequate:
https://larnefc.com/european-home-fixtures-set-to-move/

Iirc, although the pitch was still relatively new, they had overused it so much that it failed the "bounce test" (or somesuch).

[TonyD]

Yes I understand what happened in previous years, but this season UEFA relaxed the requirements considerably. E.g. Larne are playing their Q3 game at their home ground tomorrow night, and had any other Irish League teams had progressed they too could play at their home venue. In previous years they would have had to use Windsor Park.

Didn’t know they had relaxed the rules this year. In my view they are still way too strict. For instance I don’t see why we couldn’t have used the terraces in Richmond in the last round. It’s a nonsense in my view. I’d much rather be playing this round in Richmond, with the use of the standing areas. Would give us a much better chance of getting a good result. Honestly would love someone to explain the need for these rules at this stage in the competition. OK, if it was the group stages I could understand it, especially if it was a big foreign team involved. It’s difficult enough as it is for our clubs. Our record is not good in Tallaght, so I’m not optimistic about tomorrow.

[joey B]

The pitch is in bad nick for Rovers game tommorow!

1821295110841356359

[2 Year Contract]

Pretty horrendous pitch that Rovers will be playing on in Slovenia tomorrow

https://x.com/freewheeler12/status/1821293830592983234?s=46

[ger121]

How do they always get away with this ****e in Europe.

[RealJohn91]

Jaysus, it's been a while since I saw a pitch that bad.

[Mr_Parker]

I think your general point (relaxation) is correct, but as a Category 2 Stadium, Larne expected to be able to use Inver Park last time round.

However the artificial pitch, not the stadium generally proved inadequate:
https://larnefc.com/european-home-fixtures-set-to-move/

Iirc, although the pitch was still relatively new, they had overused it so much that it failed the "bounce test" (or somesuch).

You are correct as to why Larne could not use their ground last year due to the pitch, but even if their pitch was fit, they could have only used their ground up to Q2 in the Conference League. For Q3 last year, they then would had to go to Windsor Park.

This year is different. The relaxation meant they, and other clubs, with some minor requirements can now use their stadiums for Q3. Cliftonville, had we got through from Q2 last week, were able to use Solitude for Q3 this week.

[sbgawa]

Pitch looks awful alright for the Rovers match.
Makes you wonder can Celje be that much of a good footballing team if they let their pitch get into that state.~
Hope Rovers dont do to much playing out from the back tonight based on that pitch, bobble central

[holidaysong]

Looking into the draw in a bit more detail, and I see that if Larne can beat Ballkani then they'd likely play Lincoln Red Imps in the playoff round.

You'd expect the Gibraltar side to lose against Dinamo Minsk in their Europa League 3rd round tie.

[pineapple stu]

Yes I understand what happened in previous years, but this season UEFA relaxed the requirements considerably. E.g. Larne are playing their Q3 game at their home ground tomorrow night, and had any other Irish League teams had progressed they too could play at their home venue. In previous years they would have had to use Windsor Park.
LoI grounds are generally ****e though. I'm presuming there's some uplift between Q2 and Q3 in terms of licensing that's done for Pat's

[ger121]

Pyunik won 1-0 away to Ordabasy.

[cob655]

Any links for the two games tonight? Don't see any of them on loitv

[texidub]

I'm waiting here for the Rovers match: https://livetv.sx/enx/eventinfo/218275177_celje_shamrock_rovers/

Presume the Pat's game will be on there too.

[Philosophizer]

Celje pitch is appalling. Rovers get in after about 15 seconds - Watts shoots from edge of area but ball bobbled up about a foot in the air as he was winding up and it went way over.

[Philosophizer]

Pohls has already made a hash of a cross and Rovers somehow got away with it. But at the other end Celje also gave away the ball in their own box but the shot was saved. Plenty of chances so far. Open and entertaining first 10 mins.

[sbgawa]

Pohls pulls off two great saves to keep it level then celje miss one....blessed to be level. Could have scored ourselves as well.

[Philosophizer]

Outstanding reaction save from Pohls. And another big save from the corner. He’s brutal on crosses but gotta admit he’s a decent shot stopper. And Celje drag another chance wide. Rovers need to tighten up or they’ll concede soon you feel.

[Philosophizer]

Pohls pulls off two great saves to keep it level then celje miss one....blessed to be level. Could have scored ourselves as well.
Rovers absolutely can get goals tonight themselves. Keeping them out will be the issue though.

[ger121]

Rovers absolutely can get goals tonight themselves. Keeping them out will be the issue though.

Seems they couldn’t

[CSAD]

Rovers absolutely can get goals tonight themselves. Keeping them out will be the issue though.

They can for sure, but so far this has all the hall marks of the usual Rover's collapse in Europe...you never know there's always an exception but I've been stung too often to believe it!

EDIT - And just as a I post Rovers concede...colour me shocked.

I almost hope they can keep it a low score just so they at least have a inkling of a chance in the 2nd leg...

[Nesta99]

Rovers had them resonably at arms length. Goal a tad soft. Keep the tie alive for the home leg as these dont look hugely better. Efficiency needed, convert chances. As Ive said before any opportunity to mention it but this is like BATE away 2016 and while going behind and being blessed to keep it to 1 behind we battered them at home.

Dont know whether its the foreign feed, the poor pitch or dim floodlights but this looks like a good old retro away Eastern European tie of the 80s.

[Acornvilla]

Rovers probably lucky to be 1-0 down on balance, definitely have a better performance within themselves, but maybe so do Celje!

How are Pat's playing?

[CorribsideSteve]

Still 0-0 in the Pat's game? Anyone with any links available? Watching the Shams game, largely agree with whats been said. Another soft goal in Europe given away though

[Philosophizer]

Hoare nutmegged on the edge of his box for the goal. How is he so often involved in conceding goals at this level?

[Knocklyonhoop]

Pyunik won 1-0 away to Ordabasy.

an Armenian team beat AEK 3-1 last night too. An awful no of draws!

[ger121]

an Armenian team beat AEK 3-1 last night too. An awful no of draws!

You did get 4 **** draws in fairness. Even Vikingur was one of the better non seeded sides.

[ger121]

Boom!

[ger121]

Hoare nutmegged on the edge of his box for the goal. How is he so often involved in conceding goals at this level?

He was at that **** with Dundalk in Europe.

[Acornvilla]

Tbf that's kind of what happens when lads are playing at or beyond the limits of their ability

[Acornvilla]

From the stats it looks like Pat's are well on top. Travel and the extra time/weekend game might be taking it out of Sabah.

[ger121]

From the stats it looks like Pat's are well on top. Travel and the extra time/weekend game might be taking it out of Sabah.

You would be looking for a 2 goal lead going over there.

[Acornvilla]

You would be looking for a 2 goal lead going over there.
Any win is great but definitely need as big a lead as possible if they're to actually go through. Looking forward to a 15 goal thriller next week :D

[pineapple stu]

Last minute winner for Larne in Kosovo I see. Winners play losers of Dinamo Minsk/Lincoln Red Imps for a place in the groups

[pineapple stu]

And Sabah go down to ten.

Well now. This is interesting

[Philosophizer]

Aarons lucky to escape red there for Celje.

[Acornvilla]

Rovers been looking very leggy for a while, probably be happy enough with a 1-0 at this stage and take their chances next week.

[pineapple stu]

Probably a decent enough result if their home form in Europe wasn't so patchy too

[ger121]

Think they'll take that result. I didn't see the game but from UEFA it seems they had chances and were in the game.

[CSAD]

Rover's game management is genuinely laughable at times...it's games like this that show just how poor a tactician Bradley is, really lucky its only 1-0.

[Philosophizer]

1-0 probably a fair result. Celje are probably a shade better than anything in our league but all to play for in the second leg. Rovers are capable of getting a result against them at home.

[CorribsideSteve]

That's the worst performance I've seen in Europe under Bradley from SRFC.