LoI in Europe 2024

[Philosophizer]

Shame on Derry for losing away to this crowd. They’re bloody poor. Even with 10 Derry have been the better side. If they go out they’ve only themselves to blame.

[pineapple stu]

A Derry overhead kick cleared off the line

They're still pushing - but 3 minutes left and Magpies getting chances on the break

[sbgawa]

Clearance off the line denies Derry. Pushing on ....

[BonnieShels]

I don't see you advocating the same for Israeli or UK teams. Either you are consistant or zip it.
"Whatabout"

The post was about Belarus. Why would I bring up Israel or the UK? Back in your box there.

[BonnieShels]

A Derry overhead kick cleared off the line

They're still pushing - but 3 minutes left and Magpies getting chances on the break

That was some clearance.

[pateen]

End of Higgins ?

[BonnieShels]

I think that officially wipes out all the Gretna smuggery now. ???

Incredibly awful.

[ger121]

1st leg killed them. Played close to 90 minutes with 10 players. Yet they nearly did it.

[BonnieShels]

End of Higgins ?
He'll limp on as long as they're still in the title race.

But it's absolutely shocking.

[geysir]

You can add Breidablik to that list it seems. They were 2 down on Agg at one stage in the 1st half.Good night for your clubs.

And I'd say Vikingur didn't do enough v Rovers, even their last gasp penalty was a foul committed after the Vikingur player had passed on the ball, the following flick shot on goal was well defended, so in a way it was fitting that the penalty was missed. Icelandic champions should do better than Vikingur in Europe. I know some who are involved with Vikingur, I tell them they are 'Iceland's shame'.:)

[pineapple stu]

But it's absolutely shocking.
Genuinely trying to think of a worse result in Europe. And there's lots of bad results to choose from.

Even Rovers v Breidablik last year wasn't as bad as this I think.

[CorribsideSteve]

Tough on Derry. But they just didn't do enough, or anywhere near enough.

[joey B]

Terrible result for Derry,to put it into perspective Magpies manager is 34 and his total managerial experience is in the Northern counties league in England and Serie C in Portugal,very very bad….,

[nigel-harps1954]

Higgins has to be done now. Limping along in the title race or not, they have been utterly sh!te to watch and with the millions O'Doherty has pumped into the club, he can't sit by and watch them underperform repeatedly at the hands of someone who's clearly not cut out for management.

Shocking from them tonight.

[SwanVsDalton]

Can't turn up for half a European tie against anybody. At least the players emptied the tank tonight, can't fault the effort, but between the hole they dug and that ref just too little too late. Sometimes you win when you shouldn't and sometimes you **** up and lose when you shouldn't, that's the game.

The Higgins stuff will really come down to whether they can dust themselves down and dig deep for the run-in. Past experience would not promote optimism but it's still all to be played for. They have to find the grit from somewhere.

[pineapple stu]

Terrible result for Derry,to put it into perspective Magpies manager is 34 and his total managerial experience is in the Northern counties league in England and Serie C in Portugal,very very bad….,
The goalscorer recently spent two seasons with the U23 side of a Northern Premier League team in England...

(And still has 8 caps for Gibraltar)

[BonnieShels]

Genuinely trying to think of a worse result in Europe. And there's lots of bad results to choose from.

Even Rovers v Breidablik last year wasn't as bad as this I think.
TNS? Zimbru?

[pineapple stu]

TNS? Zimbru?
TNS maybe, but even they were a fully pro side. Are Magpies fully pro?

Zimbru maybe for the magnitude of the defeat (10-0), but they'd had some respectable results in Europe, including drawing 0-0 with Spurs the same season. I think this is worse for Gibraltar being (deservedly) the second-bottom ranked league in Europe.

Dundalk, who were mid-table last season, still saw them off comfortably enough in the Conference League.

[placid casual]

poor 2nd half performance over there and oreilly was one of many in a derry shirt diving all over the shop so cost his team ultimately
But Derry are still in the cup and have a decent chance of winning the league. Cant see higgins being in bother.

This forum has more spanners than a formula 1 pit-stop crew

[geysir]

Genuinely trying to think of a worse result in Europe. And there's lots of bad results to choose from.

Even Rovers v Breidablik last year wasn't as bad as this I think.

What do not get?? Breidablik are a very good team at this level and outplayed Rovers in both games, playing technically good and confident football .
Rovers losing to Breidablik was no shame, it was an inevitability considering the gulf in quality between both teams.
As it stands now Breidablik would comfortably beat Rovers over a tie.

Derry losing to Magpies is a different story altogether.

[pineapple stu]

What do not get?? Breidablik are a very good team at this level and outplayed Rovers in both games, playing technically good and confident football .
They did - and for Rovers to be so outplayed home and away by a part-time team is appalling. What's not to get?

[sbgawa]

Its would be hard to sack him on the basis of going out tonight after a harsh sending off.
Maybe if they were way off the pace in the league as well he would be gone on the basis the new guy could start the rebuild between now and end of season.
Cant see him going before seasons end but equally cant see him being there for the new season if they dont beat Shels to the title.

[ger121]

Won’t someone think about the coefficient. Is that 1.000 so far?

[pineapple stu]

Won’t someone think about the coefficient. Is that 1.000 so far?
It is. Derry almost certainly weren't going to get anything off Copenhagen so in that regard the win is all that matters.

There's one tie going to a shoot-out now and the table will be updated then.

[ger121]

Higgins has underachieved to-date despite a cup win and a good euro run. However, he is still in the cup and a very good chance they could win. He will be going nowhere yet.

[ger121]

It is. Derry almost certainly weren't going to get anything off Copenhagen so in that regard the win is all that matters.

There's one tie going to a shoot-out now and the table will be updated then.

I would be of the same view PS.

[ger121]

Early days but we are up to 32nd in the Country Rankings.

[pineapple stu]

The win and a draw lift us up to 32nd, ahead of Kosovo. Nosebleed territory in fairness; very rare we'd be that high up. I think 29th was our record since UEFA went to 50+ countries.

But the next round will be very tough; not expecting a big haul at all. Four countries below us still have all their teams left in. Two have outscored us so far this season - but really with the first round draw we got, you'd have expected a better return. There's plenty of second round games where lower countries can do well - the Icelandic clubs have opposition from Kosovo, Scotland, Estonia and Albania for example. It'd almost be surprising if they didn't pass us out after that.

As always, the Champions League representative will impact things a lot with more games and the best chance of getting to the groups and getting double points

[oriel]

TNS maybe, but even they were a fully pro side. Are Magpies fully pro?

Zimbru maybe for the magnitude of the defeat (10-0), but they'd had some respectable results in Europe, including drawing 0-0 with Spurs the same season. I think this is worse for Gibraltar being (deservedly) the second-bottom ranked league in Europe.

Dundalk, who were mid-table last season, still saw them off comfortably enough in the Conference League.

We finished 5th last season, beat same club 3-1 on agg, this was an absolutely shocking result by Derry with probably twice the budget.

Said it far too many times on here, Higgins is a coach**not a manager.

**SOD and Perth also fall into same bracket, S.Keegan too, I'd also add Bohs manager Reynolds, and previous one Devine too to this list. Its a big list................

[ger121]

The win and a draw lift us up to 32nd, ahead of Kosovo. Nosebleed territory in fairness; very rare we'd be that high up. I think 29th was our record since UEFA went to 50+ countries.

But the next round will be very tough; not expecting a big haul at all. Four countries below us still have all their teams left in. Two have outscored us so far this season - but really with the first round draw we got, you'd have expected a better return. There's plenty of second round games where lower countries can do well - the Icelandic clubs have opposition from Kosovo, Scotland, Estonia and Albania for example. It'd almost be surprising if they didn't pass us out after that.

As always, the Champions League representative will impact things a lot with more games and the best chance of getting to the groups and getting double points

They really lucked out with some of those draws in the league path.

[Acornvilla]

I think it's both a terrible result and a commendable effort given the red card tbh

Copenhagen are going to win the next round about 17-0

[Nesta99]

The fall of Belarussian football continues - from having BATE Borisov get four points in a Champions League group of Roma, Barcelona and Leverkusen just nine years ago, they're now dropping to 54th in the UEFA rankings, ahead of only San Marino

And Isloch of Belarus are just after losing 1-0 at home (well, in Hungary) to La Fiorita of San Marino to send their tie to extra time; the goal coming in the 87th minute. La Fiorita had just three draws to show from their 26 European games to date.

Late goals also the undoing of the Welsh sides - Bala conceded in the 120th minute to lose 3-2 on aggregate, while Connah's Quay conceded in the 88th minute against Bravo of Slovenia to send the tie to extra time.

Is there some irony in P6 Dundalk name checking BATE as the model they wante to follow?

Derry result is arguably the worst for LoI in Europe but less for performance but due to the relative resources between the 2 clubs and past bad ones. There have been worse footballing performances, Sligo home to Vlaznia, an overspending Shels and Hibs Malta?
It could be that blessing in disguise for Derry as they either will take control of the title run in and a possible cup run with no more distractions, do or die or it leaves Higgins with absolutely no credit in the bank to keep the job.
Last year their domestic form was sketchy but went in to Europe and looked decent v KuPS and especially 2nd leg v Tobol they were expansive and unexpectedly dominated possession for good spells, attacked on the front foot when they were expect to play on the break and unlucky, losing on penalties. Looked like they had found a level of perormance that they could take in to the league again but nope. This year they are off 4 league wins on the spin, putting pressure on Shels and had the very winnable draw, but nope. People pass comments on sides having squads that would almost coach themselves and walk a league with all the quality and experience, not any more if ever really. Heart doesnt cut it alone and Higgins has missed something in the 1st leg whatever about being undone by a red card tonight.

[dcfc_legend9]

poor 2nd half performance over there and oreilly was one of many in a derry shirt diving all over the shop so cost his team ultimately
But Derry are still in the cup and have a decent chance of winning the league. Cant see higgins being in bother.

This forum has more spanners than a formula 1 pit-stop crew

Higgins is very much in bother.... The fans are now really starting to get annoyed with his lack of tactical knowledge and his defensive mindset. He ruined the game in Extra time last night by changing the formation and giving up the midfield completely. His changes seemed very much a hit and hope effort.

We could be out of the cup come Sunday and then out of the league next week if we lose to Shels. Surely that would be the end of RH unless Phillip O'Doherty lets him see out the season then doesn't renew his contract.

This is a massive week in the life of Derry City once again and the start we have got off to is horrendous.

[pineapple stu]

The details for Monday's draw are confirmed now. If Rovers beat Sparta Prague, they'll face the winners of one of the following ties in the third round -

PAOK v Borac Banja Luka
FCSB v Maccabi Tel Aviv
Ferencvaros v TNS
Lincoln Red Imps v Qarabag
Celje v Slovan Bratislava
Bodo/Glimt v RFS Riga

Actually Sparta Prague seem stronger than most of those. Though if we're honest it seems far more likely Rovers will be in the Europa League instead, where they'll face the losers of one of the following ties in the third round -

APOEL v Petrocub (Moldova)
PAOK v Borac Banja Luka
Celje v Slovan Bratislava
Ludogorets Razgrad v Dinamo Minsk
Panevezys v Jagellonia Bialystok
Santa Coloma v Midtjylland

That then has the mix of teams they should beat (Santa Coloma), they'd have a decent chance against (Panevezys, Petrocub) and really awkward ties you just want to keep away from (Borac Banja Luka, Dinamo Minsk, even Celje)

The third qualifying round Conference League draw is also on Monday but no pools available yet. Almost certain Shels won't need to worry about it, but wouldn't rule out Pat's getting past Vaduz, even if they probably won't be favourites.

[Jolly Red Giant]

TNS maybe, but even they were a fully pro side. Are Magpies fully pro?

No - part-time - they were established as a pub team (in Bruno's Bar) for £500 ten years ago.

Now - they have run up big debts in the past five years paying journeymen part-time Spanish players in their mid- to late-30s to fill out their squad in the hope of doing what they did to Derry. I gave a break down a couple of pages back.

But there is no way that any team from Gibraltar should be anything other than canon fodder for a LOI team in Europe (and Derry are currently the second best team in the LOI)

[Acornvilla]

Tbf having watched the 2nd leg, they were cannon fodder, and Derry just found a way to lose it. Without the red I think they'd have won 5-0. Bruno's were absolutely shook when 2-0 down to 10 men, and Derry just ran out of steam I think. Very tough to press a team so hard for so long a man down. Add it to the litany of one's that got away in Europe sob stories.

Next week, I reckon at best Rovers draw the home leg and go out after a heavy away loss. I checked and Prague's top 4 goalscorers were at the Euro's so none of them have been playing in pre season. Their fitness will be questionable. A chance to catch them on the hop and keep the tie tight. Their season is just starting and they will also have a league game next weekend while Rovers will have the weekend free. Rovers are heavy underdogs, but any results they can pick up will help the coefficient. They'll lose in the end, and then it's all down to the luck of the draw in q3 of the Europa League.

I think Pat's will do Vaduz, but it will be very tight, Pat's having a few weeks free could help or hurt them, I hear they've won 2/3 friendlies while everyone else has been playing league/europe, and made some decent signings, hopefully the little break has given Kenny a chance to get a hold of the squad and make sense of what they're doing. Vaduz are wealthy and dangerous, but they're playing 2nd tier football and just coming out of pre season, will also have a mid week match next week while Pat's have it free. Lost last season's top scorer to a league rival. They're wildly inconsistent in Europe, some times good, sometimes awful, like our clubs I guess.

Shels are playing a good top tier Swiss side, so it'll be interesting to see the gulf between Zurich and Vaduz, if they get any sort of draw it'll all be gravy, but I doubt they have much of a chance. Did their job getting this far. In all honesty they'll probably be happy enough to take the cash and get a quick exit to concentrate on the league this time around. Might be a bit of a disaster next year if they do it, and are unseeded in the Champions league mind!


Best case scenario we have 2 clubs in the 3rd round, but Rovers should pick up a few results and drag us close to the top 33 spot by the end of qualifying you'd hope, I'm probably being overly optimistic on Pat's but time will tell.

Getting way ahead of myself but with things domestically being very interesting, if Waterford and Galway did find themselves in Europe and Shels won it, we could have 3/4 clubs unseeded in the first round next season, and could be a bit of a disaster :D Or would the leagues co efficient itself be high enough for Galway/Waterford to be seeded in ECL?

[Straightstory]

Shocking result for Derry. Surely the only way to salvage some sort of dignity from this is to sack Higgins.
Very odd that there were four-sendings off (all from LOI sides) in six ties. I think there were only two sendings-off in the entire recent Euros.

[pineapple stu]

Next week, I reckon at best Rovers draw the home leg and go out after a heavy away loss. I checked and Prague's top 4 goalscorers were at the Euro's so none of them have been playing in pre season. Their fitness will be questionable.
I think the fitness part can be over-done a bit - they're professional footballers and they won't have turned to blobs because they've had two weeks of a sun holiday. (I think it's different with a part-time club like Bruno's Magpies - pre-season can make a bigger difference there)

The bigger issue for Sparta is they'll still be gelling in new players and a new manager (though they've appointed their assistant, which should help with continuity). But they got to the last 16 of the Europa League last year - they were knocked out of the CL on penalties by Copenhagen, beat Dinamo Zagreb in the Europa playoffs, came out of a group with Rangers, Betis and Aris Limassol, beat Galatasaray in the first knock-out round and finally lost 11-2 to Liverpool. There's some serious results there, and it wasn't a one-off run. Rovers have a habit of being exposed by this sort of team. A home draw would be a great result. I don't see it happening though.

Pat's - Kenny is a good LoI manager and has European pedigree too, but I think this tie is maybe a year too soon. Their league form is still poor - two wins in nine since Kenny took over - and though Kenny is starting to change the squad around, that won't really help much with the game next week.

I think with the way the second round draw has gone, we'll be doing very well indeed to maintain our current position by the season's end.

Good point on Waterford/Galway - I think without any European history, they're going to be unseeded next year if they get there. But that doesn't matter as much as you'd think - Shels were unseeded this year, but could have faced Breidablik, Dudelange, Tre Penne, Crues or Joey's. Get a regular European qualifier from a poor league and that's as good as being seeded.

[D24Saint]

As far as I’m aware there is very little expectation on our tie next week. The league form says it all and the opposition will be far from mugs. Hopefully we are competitive that’s all that can be expected.

[oriel]

Its would be hard to sack him on the basis of going out tonight after a harsh sending off.
Maybe if they were way off the pace in the league as well he would be gone on the basis the new guy could start the rebuild between now and end of season.
Cant see him going before seasons end but equally cant see him being there for the new season if they dont beat Shels to the title.

Bohs sacked Kenny around 2004 after going out in Europe to a better side Levadia Tallin.

[sbgawa]

Rovers have a free hot on Tuesday but I expect us to lose to a team as strong as Sparta. Stubis right re full time pros and pre season, they will all have had programmes to stick to during the summer and will be miles ahead technically. If we do lose by a couple on Tuesday we should be taking a practical approach to the second leg.

[Acornvilla]

I think the fitness part can be over-done a bit - they're professional footballers and they won't have turned to blobs because they've had two weeks of a sun holiday. (I think it's different with a part-time club like Bruno's Magpies - pre-season can make a bigger difference there)

The bigger issue for Sparta is they'll still be gelling in new players and a new manager (though they've appointed their assistant, which should help with continuity). But they got to the last 16 of the Europa League last year - they were knocked out of the CL on penalties by Copenhagen, beat Dinamo Zagreb in the Europa playoffs, came out of a group with Rangers, Betis and Aris Limassol, beat Galatasaray in the first knock-out round and finally lost 11-2 to Liverpool. There's some serious results there, and it wasn't a one-off run. Rovers have a habit of being exposed by this sort of team. A home draw would be a great result. I don't see it happening though.

Pat's - Kenny is a good LoI manager and has European pedigree too, but I think this tie is maybe a year too soon. Their league form is still poor - two wins in nine since Kenny took over - and though Kenny is starting to change the squad around, that won't really help much with the game next week.

I think with the way the second round draw has gone, we'll be doing very well indeed to maintain our current position by the season's end.

Good point on Waterford/Galway - I think without any European history, they're going to be unseeded next year if they get there. But that doesn't matter as much as you'd think - Shels were unseeded this year, but could have faced Breidablik, Dudelange, Tre Penne, Crues or Joey's. Get a regular European qualifier from a poor league and that's as good as being seeded.

I take your point re fitness, I was thinking as much, that their star players may be jaded, and just back from a bit of a holiday, you hear a lot of pro's saying it takes them 5/6 games to really feel back in to the swing of things. I don't expect them to be unfit, but just not at 100%, I don't think it'll matter over the course of the tie by any means, but just that nicking a tight draw at home is Rovers best bet of doing anything.

I enjoy Vaduz' strange existence in world football, and keep an eye out for them every year since Longford played them, I just think they're very weird, and can occasionally be terrible, I expect Pat's will put an awful lot in to it because their season is all over the place, Kenny probably needs a big result, I also expect them to beat Derry after their Euro exertions, I think the hour with 10 men will have taken a lot out of them, they looked shattered. So the vibes and momentum might be a bit better around Richmond than they would have been before the transfer window.

I reckon Rovers will lose in CL Q2. Worst case they lose EL Q3, they'll surely be seeded in ECL Q4 and would get likely get a decent draw against another side that's lost two rounds, definitely no gurantees. We're going to rely heavily on them to keep the league in top 33. But with the new formats that's basically it for every small nation sub 30th. Very few nations below us will be picking up points by q3 I'd imagine.

[brendy_éire]

Its would be hard to sack him on the basis of going out tonight after a harsh sending off.
Maybe if they were way off the pace in the league as well he would be gone on the basis the new guy could start the rebuild between now and end of season.
Cant see him going before seasons end but equally cant see him being there for the new season if they dont beat Shels to the title.

It's not so much last night that done us (though some questions to be asked about the latter stages), but the result over in Gibraltar. IMO, he should have resigned after that.
Utterly pathetic stuff over the two legs, but is anyone all that surprised?
It's the worst result I've witnessed as a Derry City fan, and it's up there with the worst result of any LoI club in Europe. Longford and Bohs losing to Wales sides springs to mind, it's certainly in that category. Magpies are not a good side. Tall, physical, but that's basically it. We should never have been in any danger of losing that tie.
Higgins talks about unacceptable performances, but in reality, they are accepted. We're half way through the July, and we've made one signing, another midfielder. We're crying out for a couple of centre halves. It looks like we'll be keeping the same squad until the end of the season.

FWIW, I think Higgins will be here to the end of the season. We have Pats in the cup on Sunday, who are coming up to Derry on the Saturday night, so must be taking it very seriously. They'll be fancying their chances. Then, unless it's moved, Shels are up next. Lose those two, and the season is over.

[pineapple stu]

I take your point re fitness, I was thinking as much, that their star players may be jaded, and just back from a bit of a holiday, you hear a lot of pro's saying it takes them 5/6 games to really feel back in to the swing of things. I don't expect them to be unfit, but just not at 100%, I don't think it'll matter over the course of the tie by any means, but just that nicking a tight draw at home is Rovers best bet of doing anything.
Not disagreeing overall at all - I think it's more general team cohesion that's the factor. It's not long since Bohs and Dundalk gave PAOK and Vitesse proper frights despite their opponents clearly being better; the LoI guys were that bit more match sharp and took their chances whereas the others missed a hatful. It's certainly possible. It's the main reason the LoI moved to summer soccer after all.


Very few nations below us will be picking up points by q3 I'd imagine.
Just takes one of them to reach the groups and they could pick up a decent amount. Last year I think there were five countries ranked lower than us that had teams in the groups (Bosnia, Iceland, Faroes, Kosovo and Finland)

Looking at the Champions League for example - Belarus, Wales, Bosnia, Latvia, the Faroes, Andorra, Lithuania and Gibraltar all have their champions one win away from the group stages (same as Rovers are at present)

[Acornvilla]

I both have absolutely no confidence in Rovers, but still for some reason think they'll make the ECL groups, and that anyone below us will end up just about mirroring us :D

[Burnsie]

beginning to think we shoulda sent Sligo's reserves into Europe

[oriel]

It's not so much last night that done us (though some questions to be asked about the latter stages), but the result over in Gibraltar. IMO, he should have resigned after that.
Utterly pathetic stuff over the two legs, but is anyone all that surprised?
It's the worst result I've witnessed as a Derry City fan, and it's up there with the worst result of any LoI club in Europe. Longford and Bohs losing to Wales sides springs to mind, it's certainly in that category. Magpies are not a good side. Tall, physical, but that's basically it. We should never have been in any danger of losing that tie.
Higgins talks about unacceptable performances, but in reality, they are accepted. We're half way through the July, and we've made one signing, another midfielder. We're crying out for a couple of centre halves. It looks like we'll be keeping the same squad until the end of the season.

FWIW, I think Higgins will be here to the end of the season. We have Pats in the cup on Sunday, who are coming up to Derry on the Saturday night, so must be taking it very seriously. They'll be fancying their chances. Then, unless it's moved, Shels are up next. Lose those two, and the season is over.

I looked at the Magpies team and from memory looks largely similar to who we played last July, I was worried about our away leg due to the heat, and I was there to witness it at 33c at 5pm KO, so I was happy enough with a 0-0 draw. We beat them comfortably 3-1 at home in the second leg, and I didn't think they looked up to much, prob LOI mid table FD standard, so its a bitter pill for Derry to swallow this one I`m afraid.

As I said a few times on here, Higgins is a coach, not a manager, but not sure I`d agree he should have been sacked after first leg, but has to be on thin ice now, for starters the player budget must be 50k+ a week, you / he has to be doing better than this with that outlay.

[ger121]

Out of 6 matches we’ve had players sent off in 4 of those matches. 2 for diving I think. Being down to 10 men certainly made it tougher for Rovers in both games. It probably cost Derry progression as they would have beaten Magpies 3/4-0 with 11 on the pitch, or at the very least in ET. Europe is tough as it is so you don’t want to be giving teams an extra advantage. I feel our discipline has cost us to some degree in the games to-date.

[yurt]

Silver lining from the Derry result is that they've saved me 20 quid from paying a 10er twice to see them defend again Copenhagen.

[CorribsideSteve]

Silver lining from the Derry result is that they've saved me 20 quid from paying a 10er twice to see them defend again Copenhagen.
Well, they would have lost 12-0, so it's a silver lining for many of us. Spare a thought for the players that signed for Derry, drawn by the lure of playing in Europe, only to later find it all too difficult to get past the 1st round and one of the weakest teams on the whole continent.