Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

[SwanVsDalton]

Well she ain't a gift horse I'd be looking in the mouth, IF you know what I mean...

http://blogue.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/rodney_dangerfield.jpg

[tetsujin1979]

Watch "Love and other drugs", then we'll talk

[DeLorean]

So, it would be advantageous NOT to be seeded. Playing away from home is the way to be surely what with the bizarre existence of away goals in ET!

I think it depends on the team. I used always feel that Celtic were better off at home in the first leg. They were so poor away from home that they'd probably have too much of an uphill battle in the second leg to go through. They were better off having something to hold on to, maybe keeping a clean sheet and defend for their dear lives away from home and possibly nicking an away goal. I think they were drawn at home in every round of their run to the final of the 2003 UEFA Cup, I honestly don't think they would have got there otherwise. I think for more solid teams eg. Man Utd, they are better off playing the away game first. They'll always keep it tight enough to give themselves a real chance in the second leg at Old Trafford. I despise the away goals rule, give me penalties any day. It's hard to know what the best situation is for Ireland. They're unusual that they're pretty decent away and pretty woeful, for the most part, at home. I think I'd like them to play away from home first though.

[BonnieShels]

I see your point. I definitely would still rather us away. Especially as AGs carry into ET for some unknown reason.

[paul_oshea]

I love these discussions in the slow days that lead up to the start of a big 2 matches :D.
It's always the same.
I could throw out any topic in the world right now, and there would be serious, and at times fierce debate.
So I will: Anne Hathaway. Attractive As Hell or Looks Like A Horse? Your call. (Ladies do not hesitate to chime in)

I reckon she is quite attractive, but she will soon lose that very quickly as her face appears bigger than her features.

Her skin wil droop very quickly, like droppy the dog.

Her eyes are her only real asset that will hold any value. I often think about does her poo stink though, and other such things...

[Sullivinho]

I reckon she is quite attractive, but she will soon lose that very quickly as her face appears bigger than her features.

Her skin wil droop very quickly, like droppy the dog.

Her eyes are her only real asset that will hold any value. I often think about does her poo stink though, and other such things...

I had to google the lass and had her firmly in the 'quite attractive but no Audrey Hepburn (who is?)' category but you've put me right off her with your merciless, highly probable logic!

I think we've surely demonstrated Crosby's point though. I can feel a nerve or two already and we haven't even entered the t-minus 7 days window yet. :wilt:

[geysir]

I think it depends on the team. I used always feel that Celtic were better off at home in the first leg. They were so poor away from home that they'd probably have too much of an uphill battle in the second leg to go through. They were better off having something to hold on to, maybe keeping a clean sheet and defend for their dear lives away from home and possibly nicking an away goal. I think they were drawn at home in every round of their run to the final of the 2003 UEFA Cup, I honestly don't think they would have got there otherwise.
Afair, In that run to the final, Celtic had to up their game away from home because the home result was not good enough to go through. Like us they had more than a few nervy home games but upped their game away.

I'm not that concerned really, If we do end up in the playoffs I think we will do better than last time.

[Junior]

I think it depends on the team. I used always feel that Celtic were better off at home in the first leg. They were so poor away from home that they'd probably have too much of an uphill battle in the second leg to go through. They were better off having something to hold on to, maybe keeping a clean sheet and defend for their dear lives away from home and possibly nicking an away goal. I think they were drawn at home in every round of their run to the final of the 2003 UEFA Cup, I honestly don't think they would have got there otherwise. I think for more solid teams eg. Man Utd, they are better off playing the away game first. They'll always keep it tight enough to give themselves a real chance in the second leg at Old Trafford. I despise the away goals rule, give me penalties any day. It's hard to know what the best situation is for Ireland. They're unusual that they're pretty decent away and pretty woeful, for the most part, at home. I think I'd like them to play away from home first though.

Its a good post but as geysir says, Celtic (completely out of character I know) had some great away performances too after some tight home legs. Whether they would have managed them if it was a first leg encounter is open to debate......

Blackburn - won 1-0 at home then won 2-1 away
Celta Vigo -won 1-0 at home, then los 2-1 away (went thru on away goals)
Stuttgart - won 3-1 at home, lost 3-2 away (we went 2-0 up in the away leg and the tie was over)
Liverpool - drew 1-1 at home won 2-0 at Anfield
Boavista - drew 1-1 at home won 1-0 away

completely off topic but it was a great run and I was at all those games home and away bar vigo away.

Changed times now for SPL sides.

[French Toasht]

Thursday 13th October could be a pretty influential day on our road to Poland/Ukraine.

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro2012/news/newsid=1689808.html

[BonnieShels]

What's an ENG crew?

[mypost]

I see your point. I definitely would still rather us away. Especially as AGs carry into ET for some unknown reason.

Bar the Iran play-off, at home first hasn't helped us in play-offs. One year, it knocked us out completely. (Turkey)

The common consent is that it is better to be away first, so you know what you have to do in front of your own fans. Accordingly, the play-offs here have the strongest teams away first. In the European and UEFA Cups, the same rules apply in the Second Round. I also prefer to be away first, but I hate play-offs, and would prefer two extra group dates in November, like in 2007.

[p2011]

Whatever happens, I think history will show that this was a pretty weak group. Three points from four games against the top seeds is poor enough, regardless of whether we qualify directly, through a play-off, or not at all. If we don't make it, a change of management would be good. Getting ripped apart twice by Russia and drawing twice against Slovakia is sadly not really good enough form to deserve a major tournament.

[Wolfie]

Whatever happens, I think history will show that this was a pretty weak group. Three points from four games against the top seeds is poor enough, regardless of whether we qualify directly, through a play-off, or not at all. If we don't make it, a change of management would be good. Getting ripped apart twice by Russia and drawing twice against Slovakia is sadly not really good enough form to deserve a major tournament.

Getting what you "deserve" from qualifying groups can tend to be provisional to the overall goal.

We went unbeaten in our group for Euro 92, for instance.

How teams qualify for finals tends to get forgotten pretty quickly.

Winning ugly on Friday and Tuesday would be completely fine by me anyway!!!

[Stuttgart88]

I think there's some truth to p2011's post though.

Failure to win just one game against the top 2 seeds has been another disappointment. Even if we were to qualify via a play-off it'd still require some objective accptance that we do ourselves no favours by leaving points out there against higher ranked teams.

We're limping over the finishing line rather than crossing it with our chests out. After 6 games we were > 2 points per game, now we're back below it. Even if we finish on 21 points (I wouldn't bank on it) it'd be hard not to think we've left something out there. Again.

Full points from Macedonia and Armenia would have some merit, but only one home point from the top two seeds is disappointing. There are better top 2 seeds out there.

[pineapple stu]

And needless to say, it'll be hard to win a play-off without beating a top-two seed or a team of similar strength.

[DeLorean]

Its a good post but as geysir says, Celtic (completely out of character I know) had some great away performances too after some tight home legs. Whether they would have managed them if it was a first leg encounter is open to debate.....

True enough... I just meant that having their first leg at home ensured they'd remain in the tie some bit until the second leg really. I think Liverpool and Boavista would definitely have been more attack minded if they were at home in their first legs too but, like you say, that's open to debate. Also, I think they won 2-0 at Ewood! :)

[theworm2345]

Kerzhakov (scored against us '02 and '10) is out for Russia

[Junior]

True enough... I just meant that having their first leg at home ensured they'd remain in the tie some bit until the second leg really. I think Liverpool and Boavista would definitely have been more attack minded if they were at home in their first legs too but, like you say, that's open to debate. Also, I think they won 2-0 at Ewood! :)

True! A mixture of 8 years passing, alcohol on the night in question and probably poor reading/typing skills all contributing factors :-)

[geysir]

All very fine now Junior to say that drink was involved.
But unless you use the :beer: smiley in your post to indicate that you're under the influence, you cannot expect us later to seriously accept your mitigation.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But where are the smilies?
:eek:

[Junior]

All very fine now Junior to say that drink was involved.
But unless you use the :beer: smiley in your post to indicate that you're under the influence, you cannot expect us later to seriously accept your mitigation.

Alas I wasnt under the influence at the time of posting but at the game in question itself! - Though I did know the result - Im just an idiot. Will you accept that mitigating factor at least?

[geysir]

Like Ronnie, I should mind my own business.

[zero]

i have a horrible fear that the slovaks will beat russia, and we'll beat andorra so head into the final game thinking we can win the group.

then we only draw against armenia and miss out even on a playoff, with both slovak and russia finishing on 20 and we on 19.

for this reason, slovaks failing to beat russia wouln't be too much of a blow.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Naw, too simple a scenario sadly. Not complicated enough for us.

[BonnieShels]

i have a horrible fear that the slovaks will beat russia, and we'll beat andorra so head into the final game thinking we can win the group.

then we only draw against armenia and miss out even on a playoff, with both slovak and russia finishing on 20 and we on 19.

for this reason, slovaks failing to beat russia wouln't be too much of a blow.

That nearly made me puke.

[northwestexile]

A bit off topic and slightly random but does anybody know if ESPN is showing any of the Ireland games on their Aus/NZ channel? Took a look last night and the listings said that the England game was on but delayed coverage. They having been showing the Ireland games up to now (with good old Tommy Smyth with a Y on commentary) and I just wonder because it's the bottom team are they not showing this game?

[tricky_colour]

I'd she she is halfway good looking.

Someone who would look stunning through the bottom of a pint glass.

[BonnieShels]

Yeh wha?

[AlaskaFox]

Yeh wha?

Think tricky meant to post on foots.ie

[shep]

Is the Slovakia v Russia game gonna be online or on T.V????

[zero]

Is the Slovakia v Russia game gonna be online or on T.V????

in terms of online, since the sad demise of myp2p.eu, it's hard to tell. if you check back here

http://www.footballstreaming.info/streams/todays-links/

later it may show up. i reckon it'd be online somewhere, it's a big game.

edit: a few links here, this seems to be a replacement site for the myp2p forums:

http://forum.wiziwig.eu/threads/61346-Friday-s-Football-Links-7th-October-2011

also, not sure if i'm allowed to post links here? anyone know?

[AlaskaFox]

Links have been posted countless times in the past zero. I wouldn't worry.

[rebelmusic]

livetv.ru lads...always has every game.

[Yard of Pace]

http://www.vipbox.tv/sports/football.html
is excellent too lads.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Armenia, yikes!

Can't see Slovaks beating Russia;would a draw be our 'best' result anyway?

[zero]

right then. a draw or better on tuesday and it's the playoffs again.

as things stand, we'd be seeded, as we're ahead of belgium, bosnia, estonia and montenegro in the 2nd place standings. but the likelihood is that that will change as to maintain this essentially requires the following:

belgium to win in germany on the final day (hardly) and
serbia to fail to beat slovenia away (maybe)

or one of the above, and czechs to lose second spot to the scots. which means the scots getting a better result in spain than czech's do in lithuania.

[French Toasht]

So the likely second placed teams and how they rank in the co-efficient system.

Seeds:

Croatia
Sweden
Denmark (Incidentally the best 2nd placed team will be one of these top three teams)
Serbia
Czech Republic

Unseeded:

Turkey
Ireland/Armenia (Not putting a vodoo on anything here)
Bosnia
Montenegro


Obviously this is liable to change, Estonia, Scotland Belguim, Portugal and France may find themselves in the play offs. I know its mere conjecture but out of the seeded teams Czech and Serbia look particularly attractive draws.

[zero]

So the likely second placed teams and how they rank in the co-efficient system.

Seeds:

Croatia
Sweden
Denmark (Incidentally the best 2nd placed team will be one of these top three teams)
Serbia
Czech Republic

Unseeded:

Turkey
Ireland/Armenia (Not putting a vodoo on anything here)
Bosnia
Montenegro


Obviously this is liable to change, Estonia, Scotland Belguim, Portugal and France may find themselves in the play offs. I know its mere conjecture but out of the seeded teams Czech and Serbia look particularly attractive draws.

seems right to me. however, the uefa co-efficients work off of results in the last 3 qualifying tournaments. friendlies aren't counted. i'm not sure, but we may overtake the turks in the co-efficient since we won tonight and they lost. we shall see tomorrow i guess.

[French Toasht]

In order to finish as a seeded team:

We need Sebia to draw or lose away to Slovenia. (Thus Estonia get second)

And

Scotland to beat Liectenstein.

Scotland win against Spain.

More likely though hope Lithuania beat Czech at home.

[French Toasht]

seems right to me. however, the uefa co-efficients work off of results in the last 3 qualifying tournaments. friendlies aren't counted. i'm not sure, but we may overtake the turks in the co-efficient since we won tonight and they lost. we shall see tomorrow i guess.


This is the latest co-efficient table:

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/01/64/07/71/1640771_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Yes if we jump above Turkey its likely we'd still be unseeded, but if either Estonia or Scotland can slip in we'll get seeded. If only Estonia had not lost to the Faroes, we'd probably have just snook in.

[zero]

This is the latest co-efficient table:

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/competitions/General/01/64/07/71/1640771_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Yes if we jump above Turkey its likely we'd still be unseeded, but if either Estonia or Scotland can slip in we'll get seeded. If only Estonia had not lost to the Faroes, we'd probably have just snook in.

yeah that's my reading of it. this is all dependent on us beating armenia aswell by the way. and i'm not even sure we will be above the turks - there are only a few points in it i think so goals scored in the next game may be a factor. looking at the teams though i'd definitely prefer to be seeded.

[Eirambler]

Its a huge and unfair difference between being seeded and unseeded - The possibility of playing Sweden/Portugal/Croatia/Denmark with the second leg away or Estonia/Bosnia/Montenegro/Scotland with the second leg at home. Fcuking hate UEFA.

[geysir]

Anyone fancy Bosnia leapfrogging (sorry) France and we get the big rematch.

[boysingreen]

In order to finish as a seeded team:

We need Sebia to draw or lose away to Slovenia. (Thus Estonia get second)

And

Scotland to beat Liectenstein.

Scotland win against Spain.

More likely though hope Lithuania beat Czech at home.

Lithuania beat the Czechs 1-0 in Prague this time last year. Hope for a repeat!

[the bear]

we have to not lose against armenia at home to get into the playoffs. surely this match is built for traps team.

were basically in a first round playoff to get into the proper playoff. i cant take another playoff defeat, gonna be brickin it myself by tuesday. just dont blow it please

[Irwin3]

Expected runner-up/Possible runner-up

A: Turkey, Belgium
C: Serbia, Estonia
D: Bosnia, France
E: Sweden
F: Croatia, Greece
G: Montenegro
H: Denmark, Portugal
I: Czech Republic, Scotland

We've overtaken the Czechs now.
http://www.world-results.net/uefa/ranking.html#2011

Turkey, Bosnia, Montenegro, Czech Rep. are currently behind us.

As things stand we would be seeded. Very tight. We may have to win against Armenia to keep in a seeded position. Remember one of Sweden, Croatia, Denmark will be best runner-up.

[French Toasht]

Expected runner-up/Possible runner-up

A: Turkey, Belgium
C: Serbia, Estonia
D: Bosnia, France
E: Sweden
F: Croatia, Greece
G: Montenegro
H: Denmark, Portugal
I: Czech Republic, Scotland

We've overtaken the Czechs now.
http://www.world-results.net/uefa/ranking.html#2011

Turkey, Bosnia, Montenegro, Czech Rep. are currently behind us.

As things stand we would be seeded. Very tight. We may have to win against Armenia to keep in a seeded position. Remember one of Sweden, Croatia, Denmark will be best runner-up.

Are you sure thats the co-efficients or not the Fifa rankings?

[Irwin3]

100% sure.

[geysir]

That's freaky news Irwin, well done to suss it out. i hope it stands up to scrutiny.

So we are cheering for France against Bosnia. Self interest always comes first.

[mypost]

With the situation still very tight in the rankings, I think it's impossible to call who we will play yet. We also still have to qualify of course.