Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

[elroy]

Duff out, a few players may have to fly back to their clubs to complete transfers. Oh god, I have a horrible feeling about this game. Realistically its a must win.

[Wolfie]

Full fixture list for all of Group B below.

The ref for Friday's game is Hungarian.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012_qualifying_Group_B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012_qualifying_Group_B)

[boovidge]

Slovakia 0-0 Macedonia HT

[richieos]

macedonia are unlucky not to be ahead in that match.

[boovidge]

10 mins left. this would be a great result for us.

[boovidge]

Mac down to 10 men have conceded in injury time.

[tricky_colour]

dam...............

[Noelys Guitar]

Incredible scenes at the Mac. v Slovak game. Right back for Macedonia sent off (2nd yellow)for coming back onto the field without the ref's sayso. Bedlam breaks out. R/B would not leave pitch. Macedonia manager sent off for running onto pitch and not leaving. They will be in trouble for this. Great game. Really open with chances at both ends. ******. Slovakia score in last min.

[tricky_colour]

more bad news Hart is having a good game for England.

[Comic Book Guy]

Nothing to fear from slovakia, very very ordinary.

[elroy]

Slovakia have scored in injury time. FCUK

Full time.

[Noelys Guitar]

Good to see both teams giving up loads of chances. We can exploit both.

[boysingreen]

So f'n pizzed off it's unbelievable. Watched the whole Slovakia/Macedonia match only for a great result for us to be undone in injury time. Time-wasting Macedonian RB bstard.. gets a second yellow and his team left about 10 minutes a man down to finish the job.

Feck me man.. Slovakia must have put 100 balls into the box today.

[Stuttgart88]

Same as last campaign when Italy scored in injury time to beat Cyprus in the first game. You really want your rivals to drop points wherever possible.

[elroy]

Agree with Stutts but in a sense the way i look at it is that basically we not need to match that result. It just means we have to beat Macedonia at home now, which we wouldve expected to do so in any case. Just as Slovakia have to beat Armenia away. Wouldve been a nice bonus though nonetheless.

One or two notable results tonight, great win for NI in Slovenia. Belarus beating france

[Brendan 82]

I'd rather have to beat Macedonia at home than Armenia away. We did well tonight

[tricky_colour]

Well lets hope we do not have to rely on other results to help us, still would have been nice if they drew.
Anyway surely 6 points from our first two games?
We may as well throw in the towel if we can't beat Andorra at home.

[Crosby87]

Are we rooting for Russia and the Slovies to tie on Tuesday?

[MeathDrog]

A draw or Slovakia win would be preferable.

[eaststand85]

Draw ideally I reckon, they both lose two points that way.

[Sullivinho]

A draw or Slovakia win would be preferable.

I'd go along with that. Don't want the Russians gaining any advantage or superiority at this, or any stage.

[backstothewall]

Didn't see the game, but I think we are in a great position. Looking a Armenias results over recent years someone will drop points there, but it won't be us now!

[Stuttgart88]

I'd go along with that. Don't want the Russians gaining any advantage or superiority at this, or any stage.Are we sure that the team that got beaten over two legs by Slovenia & failed to qualify, rather than the team that won a tricky group last time out, beat Italy at the WC finals and got to the last 16, is the favourite to win this group? I'm not sure myself. Sometimes mid-ranked countries like Slovakia get the knack of qualification, something I don't think Russia ever has.

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't see the game, but I think we are in a great position. Looking a Armenias results over recent years someone will drop points there, but it won't be us now!I don't think there was any fixture in our group last time out where we got more than Italy. In every corresponding game they did at least as well as we did. Maybe Armenia away will be one where one of our rivals slips up. Bar the obvious head-to-head games, Macedonia away is the other one where there's an opportunity to outperform.

[Sullivinho]

Are we sure that the team that got beaten over two legs by Slovenia & failed to qualify, rather than the team that won a tricky group last time out, beat Italy at the WC finals and got to the last 16, is the favourite to win this group? I'm not sure myself. Sometimes mid-ranked countries like Slovakia get the knack of qualification, something I don't think Russia ever has.

I hear that, but I'd still be more concerned about the Russians than the Slovaks. Slovenia's heroics notwithstanding, it's a horrendous place to go. Their home record is immense and we were thumped the last time we made the trip.

[Colbert Report]

I hear that, but I'd still be more concerned about the Russians than the Slovaks. Slovenia's heroics notwithstanding, it's a horrendous place to go. Their home record is immense and we were thumped the last time we made the trip.

Thumped? Didn't O'Shea get injured early and Hunt sent off?

[Sullivinho]

Thumped? Didn't O'Shea get injured early and Hunt sent off?

I was referring to our last trip to Russia. Apologies for the confusion.

[bwagner]

Cyprus drawing 4-4 in Portugal ...goes to show Trap did well getting all 6 points last campaign, i think we are getting there bit by bit, another good 3-4 goal win now on Tuesday will be great for moral.

[Charlie Darwin]

I hear that, but I'd still be more concerned about the Russians than the Slovaks. Slovenia's heroics notwithstanding, it's a horrendous place to go. Their home record is immense and we were thumped the last time we made the trip.
I don't think there's any danger of the overconfidence that preceded that performance creeping back in. We'll be firm underdogs going there this time.

[geysir]

We would be doing well to get a point in Slovakia but we would be doing supremely well to get a point in Russia.
Somehow the Russians/SU have been our most difficult away opponents.

Our 1 up formation (i.e. after we score first) still gives me the jitters. In the blink of an eye, there was all this free space in our half, to our first line of defense. I was wondering what this noise was after we scored, then I saw it was my heartbeat rattling my shirt.
Strange enough, Kenny C on RTE was purring with satisfaction at how disciplined we were after we scored.

[EastTerracer]

Thumped? Didn't O'Shea get injured early and Hunt sent off?

Hunt was sent off against the Czechs a few days later, not against Slovakia.

We should have won the game in Slovakia. We were 2-1 up in the dying minutes when we conceded one of our traditional sloppy goals.

That 2-2 draw knocked us out of Euro 2008 contention completely although we were the better team on the night. Doyle and Ireland got the goals (and we haven't seen SI since).

[Charlie Darwin]

Doyle's goal that night was fantastic.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We would be doing well to get a point in Slovakia but we would be doing supremely well to get a point in Russia.

Our 1 up formation (i.e. after we score first) still gives me the jitters.

What he said. And as I said in the Armenia 'match thread', it won't be pretty.

[elroy]

The way I look at it is whatever result Slovakia get in Russia we need to match. So for them to win there wouldnt be good in my opinion. A draw is by far the best result.

I think Slovakia are a better side now than the team we played twice under Stan. Arguably we were lucky to win the game at home, the away game was a last min concession but again a draw probably was the fair result.

[Colbert Report]

Yeah, I remember Doyle's goal very well. Hit it with his left foot. Best goal I've ever seen an Irish player score, no joke.

We weren't knocked out on that result though, it was the Czech loss that did us in. Almost exactly three years ago.

[Crosby87]

Colbert you were formerly Vega007? Is that your alter ego? It almost sounds....David Bowie-ish.

[Colbert Report]

Not that interesting, just lost my login info some years back

[Crosby87]

Hmmmm.....

[EastTerracer]

We weren't knocked out on that result though, it was the Czech loss that did us in. Almost exactly three years ago.

Mathematically you are correct CR but when we conceded that last minute goal in Bratislava all of the Irish supporters there knew our chances of qualification were gone. On the interminable train journey from Bratislava to Prague none of the Irish fans thought we'd be able to beat the Czechs.

If we'd held on in Bratislava then a draw in Prague would have kept us in contention. The team tried hard that night in Prague (too hard in Hunt's case) but we never looked like scoring. The draw against the Slovakia killed all the hopes if not the mathematical possibilities.

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't Doyle hit the post in Prague, and the rebound just didn't fall for McShane who would have had an open goal?

I also recall Cech flapping at a corner late on - did we have a goal disallowed in that incident, or a McShane shot cleared off the line?

We played well enough in Prague. Their goal was very well taken. Nice one two and good finish by the Milan full back.

Although we scored twice in Slovakia and were ahead going into injury time, we were rubbish for a long part of the game. Their first equaliser when it came was ineveitable we had conceded so much possession. A pretty good case could have been made for a free out (Dunne) for their second though. The curse of George, and Stan's stupid smirk while making a last minute substitution contributed too. I honestly think that in the moment Stan showed himself to be the incompetent fool he was as Irish manager.

It was after the game in Prague where Dunphy came up with his famous "would you let him drive the train to Cork, Bill?" line.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Is there much point comparing Ireland under Stan to Ireland under Trap though?
Am starting to think the differences were a little less less than we might have thought....

[Stuttgart88]

5-2 in Cyprus versus 1-2 in Cyprus. 1 point versus 6.

Barely any difference there alright.

Still, I'd take Stan's 4 points from Slovakia I suppose. I think with Stan it was just so hit and miss. At least Trap is consistently hard to beat. We've become the Cliff Thorburn of international football.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's just one opponent and the current nadir of Irish soccer though re. Cyprus.

Of course Trap is better, but his teams are becoming worse and worse to watch which is a shame.

[tetsujin1979]

That's just one opponent and the current nadir of Irish soccer though re. Cyprus.

Of course Trap is better, but his teams are becoming worse and worse to watch which is a shame.
would you prefer to play better and lose?

[EastTerracer]

That's just one opponent and the current nadir of Irish soccer though re. Cyprus.

Of course Trap is better, but his teams are becoming worse and worse to watch which is a shame.

I can't agree with this. While Friday might not have been the best, our previous competitive game in Paris was probably the best Irish performance since the 2002 World Cup. We all know Trap will keep to his system but the team are capable of playing good football within that structure when the players are on song. Hopefully it will happen on Tuesday and against Russia next month.

[EastTerracer]

Didn't Doyle hit the post in Prague, and the rebound just didn't fall for McShane who would have had an open goal?

I also recall Cech flapping at a corner late on - did we have a goal disallowed in that incident, or a McShane shot cleared off the line?

We played well enough in Prague. Their goal was very well taken. Nice one two and good finish by the Milan full back.

Although we scored twice in Slovakia and were ahead going into injury time, we were rubbish for a long part of the game. Their first equaliser when it came was ineveitable we had conceded so much possession. A pretty good case could have been made for a free out (Dunne) for their second though. The curse of George, and Stan's stupid smirk while making a last minute substitution contributed too. I honestly think that in the moment Stan showed himself to be the incompetent fool he was as Irish manager.

It was after the game in Prague where Dunphy came up with his famous "would you let him drive the train to Cork, Bill?" line.

That's fair enough Stutts - I wasn't suggesting we were bad in Prague but the win we needed did look beyond us despite a good performance. We probably deserved a draw that night but Hunt was very foolish with the tackle that resulted in his red card. Had we held on to the lead in Bratislava a draw in Prague might have been enough to keep our hopes alive.

I thought Ireland deserved a win based on the performance in Slovakia but, as is our habit, the team dropped way too deep for the last 15/20 minutes and invited Slovakia to come at them. While the team still has a tendency to sit back in the final minutes I think Trap does have them better organised (but I was still biting my fingernails on Friday afternoon waiting for the whistle).

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair enough to those replies. And take the point about some game in Paris.

But becoming cynical about the level of predictability we seem to have currently. Don't forget the former was nearly a year ago.
And Trap.doesn't seem to want to change his system, to be sometimes be more creative.
Which is why I despair. And yes if it means losing the odd game for the sake of being entertained generally, then so be it.

[rebelmusic]

I think its well worth noting that the majority of the squad are able to raise their game like they did in Paris. Why they don't do this week in and out is beyond me. Whelan and Andrews were immense that night and if they played like that all the time they would make it in the best of PL teams. Granted their performance style was about breaking down more attacking minded midfielders, but it never hurts to have one like this in any midfield, Mascherano being a good example. Raise the game lads!!

[tetsujin1979]

Fair enough to those replies. And take the point about some game in Paris.

But becoming cynical about the level of predictability we seem to have currently. Don't forget the former was nearly a year ago.
And Trap.doesn't seem to want to change his system, to be sometimes be more creative.
Which is why I despair. And yes if it means losing the odd game for the sake of being entertained generally, then so be it.
Are you saying you want to lose?
So if Trapattoni decides to play attacking football against, let's say Russia, and we go on to lose, you'll be happy with that?

[Stuttgart88]

In an ideal world we'd have a successful and entertaining team. It's not an ideal world. We've been sub-standard for 8 years now and I for one am happy to place priority on results. If it doesn't capture the imagination of the casually interested public that doesn't bother me one bit.

We played very entertaining football under Mick. His team selections were imaginative and you always felt he knew who all the available players were. He secured 3 play-off places, including one success. But even before Saipan half the country were calling him a fool and wanted him out - even when he had virtually nothing to work with. It just seems to me that nobody is happy - ever.

I'm not brushing under the carpet the question of whether a less dogmatic approach than Trap's may yield results, but marks for artistic merit aren't awarded by UEFA, only points earned for winning & drawing matches.