Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

[Noelys Guitar]

http://debilizator.tv/big.cgi?kanal=7 Link for Armenia game Armenia playing well so far. Just had two back to back corners. Oh Lord. Terrible miss by Armenia. Very open game. Armina should be in thelead

[Sullivinho]

Advantage Slovakia. And a significant one at that. The Russians played some very neat stuff at times though, especially in the final third. We'll be welcoming a wounded bear to Dublin when they visit.

[DannyInvincible]

Macedonia have had a goal ruled out against Armenia for offside. Looked onside to me though.

[Noelys Guitar]

1-1 now. Armenia scored and then MaC immediately equalised.

[Real ale Madrid]

Finished 2-2.
Armenia scored in 91st min only for Macedonia to reply with a 94th minute penalty.

[IsMiseSean]

It says 2-1 to Macedonia on UEFA website

[Spudulika]

Russia were useless, slow, ponderous and devoid of talent and ideas.

They continue to snub the best domestic players and stick with donkeys like the cretin twins at the back. The Slovaks were not great and their poor clearance and passing let the Russians do as they wished. I was surprised to see that fans were leaving before full time, lots of negative vibes here after Friday (by yesterday it was nasty) and todya it just compounded it. If Ireland don't win the group it's a massive chance lost.

[Noelys Guitar]

Good to hear. I thought Russia were very poor on Friday and not a great deal better today. Slovakia will be the tougher of the two teams to beat but if we play to our potential we can beat both in October.

[Stuttgart88]

That'd be the stuff of fantasy, but if we did then it'd be ours to lose.

I'm nervous about Macedonia away, but to be honest it's definitely no harder than recent trips to Cyprus, Armenia, Bulgaria, Macedonia or certainly Italy away, and we did well enough on those trips.

[Noelys Guitar]

I feel we should strike now and do what we didn't do the last time ie beat our two main rivals. And we can do it with this squad and manager. Armenia should have won by a couple of goals today against Macedonia from the 50 or mins I saw so I 'm not worried about them. Only Ireland can stop Ireland from topping this group.

[geysir]

Slovakia's run of fortune should hit a few rocks along the way. Armenia will be waiting for them next month.

[Sullivinho]

Russia were useless, slow, ponderous and devoid of talent and ideas.

They continue to snub the best domestic players and stick with donkeys like the cretin twins at the back. The Slovaks were not great and their poor clearance and passing let the Russians do as they wished. I was surprised to see that fans were leaving before full time, lots of negative vibes here after Friday (by yesterday it was nasty) and todya it just compounded it. If Ireland don't win the group it's a massive chance lost.

I'm diggin' the optimism, no doubt about that. :ball:

[Stuttgart88]

Only Ireland can stop Ireland from topping this group.
Ah yes, but don't underestimate our defensive resources in that context!

Oh for a fit Duff. And how important has Doyle become for us?

Hunt not back for Wolves until mid-Oct I hear.

[geysir]

We should be fine as long as Noely keeps his predictions to himself.

[elroy]

Next up:

08/10/2010 Armenia - Slovakia
08/10/2010 Andorra - FYR Macedonia
08/10/2010 Republic of Ireland - Russia

12/10/2010 Armenia - Andorra
12/10/2010 Slovakia - Republic of Ireland
12/10/2010 FYR Macedonia - Russia



As well as results going our way in our games, how good would it be if Armenia and Macedonia could take points off Slovakia and Russia in the next two series of games. Quite possible too.

[Noelys Guitar]

Some fascinating insight tonight from the RTE panel (particulary Brady) on Web xtra. McCarthy, Coleman, Kelly and our style of play and Trap's reasoning. Very good insight http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/2010/0907/euroextra_av.html

[TheBoss]

I find the question about Ireland having no talent coming through pretty odd really, this person must not be following the youth teams with regularity.

[Kingdom]

Next up:

08/10/2010 Armenia - Slovakia
08/10/2010 Andorra - FYR Macedonia
08/10/2010 Republic of Ireland - Russia

12/10/2010 Armenia - Andorra
12/10/2010 Slovakia - Republic of Ireland
12/10/2010 FYR Macedonia - Russia



As well as results going our way in our games, how good would it be if Armenia and Macedonia could take points off Slovakia and Russia in the next two series of games. Quite possible too.

Next month really is massive isn't it? I mean I'll be honest I thought Slovakia could have been coming away with 1 point after the opening bout of matches, and that ourselves and Russia could play footsie in Lansdowne at the summit of the group. Obviously that all changes now. The next round which seems a massive clash with Russia, and the Slovaks heading to Yerevan are vital. If we win, Russia are right up against it. Even more so if Slovakia take all the points against Armenia, something I don't believe is a cast iron certainty, but you would expect given their start to the group.

The funny thing about our current system, is that it doesn't really change no matter who we face, so we are primed to be able to grind out a 1-0 win, which i'd take immediately.
The Zilina fixture is just as vital to us, and I think we need to be going there looking for at least a draw, considering Slovakia's next two games are the back-to-back games against Andorra, I wouldn't like to see them coming to Dublin with a 100% record. Actually just thinking about it, Slovakia's result really does throw the cat amongst the pidgeons; we're probably going to have to take 4 points from the Russians now to win the group, unless we're going to do the Slovaks home and away.

It's crucial we keep the stupid cards down. Dunne taking one tonight and Whelan the last night, almost certainly one of them is going to miss the Zilina match, which would be a bad thing altogether. Kilbane earns the right to continue, but one wonders how long our achilles heel will go before hurting us...Green needs to be given a shephards' hook, he's just not up to this level of football. Andrews slots straight back in I would think. Oh and duffer, relax for a couple of weeks, you've a big week ahead of in October.

[mypost]

The Bratislava fixture is just as vital to us, and I think we need to be going there looking for at least a draw, considering Slovakia's next two games are the back-to-back games against Andorra, I wouldn't like to see them coming to Dublin with a 100% record.

We're all off somewhere else. We'll drop you off at the Danube. :D

[Spudulika]

Really guys, it's as simple as us beating Russia in Dublin and picking up a point in Moscow (though according to a friend of mine who sits on the RFS council, Fursenko wants to move the game somewhere less amenable, like St. Petersburg or even further east - they're going to copy the rugby crowd who send teams off to Krasnoyarsk forgames). Slovakia are a decent side who will come for a point in Dublin but they defend shambolically and Russia should/could have had 8 goals if they had a striker, which they won't as they're shunning the better Russian based players.

[Charlie Darwin]

Really guys, it's as simple as us beating Russia in Dublin and picking up a point in Moscow (though according to a friend of mine who sits on the RFS council, Fursenko wants to move the game somewhere less amenable, like St. Petersburg or even further east - they're going to copy the rugby crowd who send teams off to Krasnoyarsk forgames). Slovakia are a decent side who will come for a point in Dublin but they defend shambolically and Russia should/could have had 8 goals if they had a striker, which they won't as they're shunning the better Russian based players.
Yeah, I don't think has changed this dramatically for us. We still need to win our games against the three lower-seeded teams and pick up as many points as possible against the other two and we'll have a good shot at either first or second.

Here's highlights of Russia - Slovakia. It's Slovak TV but even so it shows Russia dominating the game. Slovakia looked well organised and clinical but they didn't create much and their goal came from a shockingly casual clearance from the goalkeeper. Russia look technically brilliant in the final third but defensively disorganised.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38POa8eWKO8

[mypost]

Really guys, it's as simple as us beating Russia in Dublin and picking up a point in Moscow (though according to a friend of mine who sits on the RFS council, Fursenko wants to move the game somewhere less amenable, like St. Petersburg or even further east - they're going to copy the rugby crowd who send teams off to Krasnoyarsk forgames).

You comparing the Russian appeal for rugby to football?

The game will be in Moscow, guaranteed. Either the Lokomotiv or the Olympic Stadium.

[geysir]

Some fascinating insight tonight from the RTE panel (particulary Brady) on Web xtra. McCarthy, Coleman, Kelly and our style of play and Trap's reasoning. Very good insight http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/2010/0907/euroextra_av.html

I find it impossible to get RTE tv archive content on that shítty Real Player. Possibly RTE have blocks in place for foreign ISPs. What is the gist of that part of the discussion?
Please:)

[Closed Account 2]

Yellow card situation:

Ireland
Whelan (v ARM)
Dunne (v AND)

Russia
Zhirkov (v SLK)
Bilyaletdinov (v AND)

Slovakia
Juraj Kucka (v RUS)
Skrtel (v MKD)

Macedonia
Filip Despotovski (v SLK)
Vance Sikov (v SLK)
Edin Nuredinovski (v SLK)
Mario Gjurovski (v ARM)
Ilco Naumoski (v ARM)

[geysir]

In back to back qualifiers, it would appear to me that it's much better for us to have the first game at home, then just one journey to the away game.
Next month. Slovakia have a tough away game before they meet us.

[French Toasht]

Hi all,

A few questions.

First though, having initially thought the Slovakia result was a good one, I have began to come round to thinking that it is possibly the worst outcome. For a number of reasons. I cant see us matching Slovakia's result in Moscow and think we'll be very lucky to take a point. (That was only the 3rd competitive home defeat for Russia in 60 years.) Secondly I thought the Russians we pretty good with the ball on the ground and passed it about very effectively and with pace, and you'd have to fear that players like Kev Kilbane will be torn to shreds by the pace they possess on the wings. As for the Slovakians I thought that was a model performance of professionalism and they showed a real knowledge of how to grind out a win in difficult circumstances, very capably. But then again come October we may see the Slovakia and Russia that played on Friday night as opposed to last night.

So as for my questions. Can anyone tell me:

1. Does goal difference against the bottom side count when it comes to deciding who wins the automatic best runners up spot. I would imagine it does as both England and Scotland are in five team groups and as such avoided the minnows like Andorra and San Marino.

2. Anyone know about suspensions. ie has Glen Whelans yellow card been extinguished yet or do the last for the entirety of the campaign, I recall something like that happening in a previous group, but cant be sure.

As for October we are going to have to beat Russia at home if we want to win (or even come second). That is something in the last 20 years the only sides ranked ahead of us that we have beaten at home was Holland (WC 2002) and Slovakia (Euro 2008 - however for this campaign we were 4th seeds and beating third seeds Slovakia was not all that impressive as at the time 4 years ago they certainly didn't command the same respect they have in footballing terms today.) We also beat Portugal in Euro 96 qualification but we were first seeds for that group.

Will we beat Russia at home?? I just can't see it.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yellow card situation:

Ireland
Whelan (v ARM)
Dunne (v AND)

Russia
Zhirkov (v SLK)
Bilyaletdinov (v AND)

Slovakia
Juraj Kucka (v RUS)
Skrtel (v MKD)

Macedonia
Filip Despotovski (v SLK)
Vance Sikov (v SLK)
Edin Nuredinovski (v SLK)
Mario Gjurovski (v ARM)
Ilco Naumoski (v ARM)
Would be ideal if Squirtel picked up another yellow against Armenia.

[tetsujin1979]

I find it impossible to get RTE tv archive content on that shítty Real Player. Possibly RTE have blocks in place for foreign ISPs. What is the gist of that part of the discussion?
Please:)
I've ripped the stream to a local file, I'll upload it later so you can watch it yourself

[boovidge]

I find it impossible to get RTE tv archive content on that shítty Real Player. Possibly RTE have blocks in place for foreign ISPs. What is the gist of that part of the discussion?
Please:)

have you tried clicking the "Play clip" button on the right? I know it sounds really stupid but I've waited for a while trying to load a video on there before clicking it. I assumed because I'd already clicked a "play" button that I had already signalled my intent to play the video but the RTE website seems to want some reassurance. It definitely doesn't block ips outside of roi.

[tricky_colour]

have you tried clicking the "Play clip" button on the right? I know it sounds really stupid but I've waited for a while trying to load a video on there before clicking it. I assumed because I'd already clicked a "play" button that I had already signalled my intent to play the video but the RTE website seems to want some reassurance. It definitely doesn't block ips outside of roi.

I am pretty sure it blocks the Ireland matches, not sure about the other content.

[geysir]

have you tried clicking the "Play clip" button on the right? I know it sounds really stupid but I've waited for a while trying to load a video on there before clicking it. I assumed because I'd already clicked a "play" button that I had already signalled my intent to play the video but the RTE website seems to want some reassurance. It definitely doesn't block ips outside of roi.
No problem to assume some stupidity and it might be appropriate on this occasion.
I booted into windows again, tried the link again, played clip, and this time it worked. I don't think I did anything different but who is going to believe me?

[boovidge]

I am pretty sure it blocks the Ireland matches, not sure about the other content.

It blocks out the matches but I've been able to watch all the interviews/analysis etc just fine.

[tetsujin1979]

I've ripped the stream to a local file, I'll upload it later so you can watch it yourself
ripped, converted to .avi (so you don't have to use RealPlayer to watch) and uploaded to megaupload: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=8KCEIMEM
enter the three letter + number code in the box,
click download file
wait for the counter to hit zero and click "Regular Download"
It's a large download, approx 250MB so it will take about 20 minutes or so on a decent connection
Watch and enjoy

for some reason the first 6 minutes are a blank screen (no idea why) so skip that and watch from the 6 minute mark

[Stuttgart88]

There was some pretty unconvincing goalkeeping all round in the RUSS v SLK game

[Spudulika]

You comparing the Russian appeal for rugby to football?

The game will be in Moscow, guaranteed. Either the Lokomotiv or the Olympic Stadium.

No, I'm reporting the debate in the RFS about where they'll play the game, they've played games away from the capital on a regular basis and they usually do it to maximise their advantage. In rugby they get equally big crowds in Siberia or in Moscow or Krasnodar, so for them they'll just do what thye have to do.

Russia were planted in the final 2 thirds of the pitch for most of the game because most of the Slovak clearances barely made half way, meanwhile everytime Slovakia attacked it was poor finishing that didn't have them popping in another couple of goals, the Russian defence is just awful and Akinfeev overrated.

[cestlavie]

What time (Irish time) is the Slovakia V Ireland game on?

[geysir]

Hi all,

So as for my questions. Can anyone tell me:

1. Does goal difference against the bottom side count when it comes to deciding who wins the automatic best runners up spot. I would imagine it does as both England and Scotland are in five team groups and as such avoided the minnows like Andorra and San Marino.
You mean the best runner up who automatically qualifies for the finals?
Results against the 6th seeded minnows are not calculated.


2. Anyone know about suspensions. ie has Glen Whelans yellow card been extinguished yet or do the last for the entirety of the campaign, I recall something like that happening in a previous group, but cant be sure.
Glen Whelan's yellow card stays on record for the duration of the qualifiers.


As for October we are going to have to beat Russia at home if we want to win (or even come second). That is something in the last 20 years the only sides ranked ahead of us that we have beaten at home was Holland (WC 2002) and Slovakia (Euro 2008 - however for this campaign we were 4th seeds and beating third seeds Slovakia was not all that impressive as at the time 4 years ago they certainly didn't command the same respect they have in footballing terms today.) We also beat Portugal in Euro 96 qualification but we were first seeds for that group.
Were we not ranked ahead of Slovakia for the 2008 qualifiers, so Holland is the only higher ranked team we have beaten competitively in yonks.
This time we are 3rd seeds behind Slovakia.


Will we beat Russia at home?? I just can't see it.

That's a strange question to ask, I thought you were looking for answers, that's asking for a prediction.

Anyone else have the strange feeling that it's Thursday?

[rebelmusic]

Anyone else have the strange feeling that it's Thursday?

Haha yes, all day!! I think russia away will be a 1-1 draw or 1-0 to us. Hopefully arshivan will get injured again just before hand. Without him they're no great shakes

[French Toasht]

We were ranked ahead of Slovakia for the 2008 qualifiers, so Holland is the only higher ranked team we have beaten competitively in yonks.
This time we are 3rd seeds (again) not 4th.


[/QUOTE]


We were in fact 4th seeds. And Slovakia were in fact 3rd seeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_2008_Qualification

[tricky_colour]

It blocks out the matches but I've been able to watch all the interviews/analysis etc just fine.

Yea that's what I found, I saw the analysis but I could not see the game, all these game seem to sold under strict broadcast conditions to milk as much money out of them as possible. The analysis was interesting and well worth the watch, but I doubt anyone would pay good money for it so they let you have it for free.

[geysir]

We were in fact 4th seeds. And Slovakia were in fact 3rd seeds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_2008_Qualification
You are right about that, but really we were better than them then, even with Stan in charge, so it doesn't count as beating a team with a higher rank.

I hope the others answers I gave were satisfying :)

[French Toasht]

They were indeed geysir, thanks.

The yellow cards lasting the duration of the campaign seems very punitive to me. Whilst it is the same for every team, it seems to me come September, October time time next year, squads will be depleted due to suspensions and particularly with our 2nd "week of death" in September 2011, that could be disastrous. For example its very hard to see Richard Dunne going a whole 8 games without picking up a yellow card.

I seem to remember in the 2002 campaign Roy Keane deliberately getting a yellow card in the game before Andorra so as to start again on a clean slate for the games against Holland and Portugal. Unfortunately as the only banker left for us in this group is in the final week, tactical suspensions would not be of that much benefit to us in that scenario. The only possible option to be tactical in that area would be for Dunne to pick up a yellow in the game against Slovakia next month, as his loss in a home game against Macedonia (which really we should be winning whether he is there or not) would not be as keenly felt as the in the week that will ultimately decide our fate next September.

Anyone else think it was very unusual that Pavlyuchenko was on the bench for 70 minutes and Bilyaletdinov for 80 minutes. I know a lot of Everton fans say Bilyaletdinov is hit and miss at times, but has great pace and a serious left foot which you could see causing mayhem for Ireland.

[geysir]

Generally under Trap, our discipline (card wise) in the last campaign was very good.
And generally we have enough problems with one or two players usually pulling out of a game with injury, without also having suspensions on top of that.

[Wolfie]

Fixtures for Friday 8th and Tuesday 12th Oct:

08/10/2010 Armenia - Slovakia
08/10/2010 Andorra - FYR Macedonia
08/10/2010 Republic of Ireland - Russia

12/10/2010 Armenia - Andorra
12/10/2010 Slovakia - Republic of Ireland
12/10/2010 FYR Macedonia - Russia

[TheBoss]

Squads:

Russia:

Goalkeepers: Igor Akinfeev (PFC CSKA Moskva), Vladimir Gabulov (FC Dinamo Moskva), Vyacheslav Malafeev (FC Zenit St. Petersburg).

Defenders: Aleksandr Anyukov (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Vasili Berezutski (PFC CSKA Moskva), Aleksei Berezutski (PFC CSKA Moskva), Sergei Ignashevich (PFC CSKA Moskva), Yuri Zhirkov (Chelsea FC), Sergei Parshivlyuk (FC Spartak Moskva).

Midfielders: Diniyar Bilyaletdinov (Everton FC), Igor Denisov (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Konstantin Zyryanov (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Roman Shirokov (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Vladimir Bystrov (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Alan Dzagoev (PFC CSKA Moskva), Pavel Mamaev (PFC CSKA Moskva), Igor Semshov (FC Dinamo Moskva).

Forwards: Andrey Arshavin (Arsenal FC), Aleksandr Kerzhakov (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Roman Pavlyuchenko (Tottenham Hotspur FC), Pavel Pogrebnyak (VfB Stuttgart)



Slovakia:

Goalkeepers: Ján Mucha (Everton), Dušan Perniš (Dundee United FC), Martin Dúbravka (MŠK Žilina).

Defenders: Peter Pekarík (VfL Wolfsburg), Martin Škrtel (Liverpool FC), Tomáš Hubočan (FC Zenit St. Petersburg), Kornel Saláta (ŠK Slovan Bratislava), Radoslav Zabavník (1. FSV Mainz 05), Mário Pečalka (MŠK Žilina).

Midfielders: Miroslav Karhan (1. FSV Mainz 05), Juraj Kucka (AC Sparta Praha), Zdeno Štrba (Skoda Xanthi FC), Kamil Kopúnek (FC Saturn Moskovskaya Oblast), Marek Hamšík (SSC Napoli), Marek Sapara (MKE Ankaragücü), Vladimír Weiss (Rangers FC), Miroslav Stoch (Fenerbahce SK).

Forwards: Stanislav Šesták (MKE Ankaragücü), Erik Jendrišek (FC Schalke 04), Filip Hološko (Beşiktaş JK), Tomáš Oravec (MŠK Žilina), Jakub Sylvestr (NK Dinamo Zagreb), Filip Šebo (ŠK Slovan Bratislava).

[The Fly]

In case anyone is interested.....our esteemed manager, 'Il Trapattoni', will be appearing on "The Late Late Show" tonight.

[Crosby87]

Russia looks scary when it is laid out like that.
I think we are better than the Slovies on paper.
I could see us getting 1 from Russia and 3 from the Slovies on a last minute goal again. I could also see Arshavin shredding us if he is in the mood and Shay is rusty.

Who will get hurt before the games? That is the question. Someone always does.

[Charlie Darwin]

Seamus Coleman called up - replacement for Kelly?

edit: confirmed Kelly and O'Dea ruled out

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101292:coleman-receives-first-senior-international-call-up&catid=1:senior-men&Itemid=8

[Wolfie]

Fixtures for Friday 8th and Tuesday 12th Oct:

08/10/2010 Armenia - Slovakia
08/10/2010 Andorra - FYR Macedonia
08/10/2010 Republic of Ireland - Russia

12/10/2010 Armenia - Andorra
12/10/2010 Slovakia - Republic of Ireland
12/10/2010 FYR Macedonia - Russia

Its only right and proper we do enough to qualify ourselves - that said, Armenia on Friday and Macedonia on Tuesday could do us a huge favour on each night!!!!

[shakermaker1982]

How many points do you think we'll get over the two games?

Optmistic hat on = 4

Realist = 2.

If I was smoking crack = 6.