Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

[geysir]

Does anyone have a link for a live stream of the Russia match?

The Armenia goalie is crying buckets by now.

[DannyInvincible]

Penalty to Russia.

[DannyInvincible]

Bleugh. Pavlyuchenko hat-trick.

[Charlie Darwin]

"Het-reek" for Pavyluchenko. Looked a dodgy call but the referee has been sympathetic to the Russian cause all night.

[Lionel Ritchie]

ridiculous penalty. The Russian boy had controlled the ball about as far as I can kick it full force and it was heading into the stand.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, that's what we can look forward to when we play there.
Simply because UEFA will be keen to see yet another Russian 'invasion' of Poland & Ukraine.

:(

[DannyInvincible]

Armenian goal disallowed for off-side from a free-kick.

[pineapple stu]

Stupid Swiss. Can beat the world champions, but not this shower?

Super goal in fairness.

[TrapAPony]

3-1 full time

[DannyInvincible]

Full-time. 3-1 to Russia. Armenia gave it a good go, conceded a questionable penalty and had a headed effort disallowed. Would have needed to see another replay really but the stream has switched to England. Can anyone confirm it was definitely off-side? Disappointing overall, considering Armenia went 1-0 up.

We definitely need to take three points tonight.

[Crosby87]

Just saw the goals England gave up, hilarious. Especially the second one.

Was hoping USSR would trip up today. Oh well.

[pineapple stu]

I think that's Armenia out of it now, given they've still to travel to Lansdowne and Bratislava. Granted, they've played very well in the campaign so far, but you'd have to think they'd need four points from those two games to stay in touch?

In terms of the game in Lansdowne - I wasn't watching the stream. Can we do the double? They seem to be quite a nippy, energetic - if ultimately limited - team; the sort of team I'd imagine could cause us problems.


Was hoping USSR would trip up today. Oh well.
Always a long shot given the haven't played these past 20 years or so.

[Charlie Darwin]

Armenia are technically very good but didn't seem to have any ideas in the final third. The number 10 running at the centre halves was their main threat. If we can cut that out (as we did in Yerevan) I think that'll be half the job done.

[tricky_colour]

Well we all expected Russia to win annoying Armenia went 1-0 up.

Will goal difference become an issue? A Nice 5-0 er would be nice but I am not expecting that,
Will be more than happy with a 1 goal win.

[DannyInvincible]

Well we all expected Russia to win annoying Armenia went 1-0 up.

Will goal difference become an issue?

It would appear that ranking of teams on equal points is based primarily on head-to-head results. Slovakia were top of the group with ten points this afternoon with ourselves and Russia in third and second respectively despite both having a superior goal difference; +3 each compared to Slovakia's +1.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Head-to-head results take priority if teams are level on points.

[tricky_colour]

It would appear that ranking of teams on equal points is based primarily on head-to-head results. Slovakia were top of the group with ten points this afternoon with ourselves and Russia in third and second respectively despite both having a superior goal difference; +3 each compared to Slovakia's +1.


Actually the UEFA site showed Ireland on top. (probably wrongly!)

Qualifying round
Group detail:
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H
I
Group B
Home Away Total
Teams P W D L W D L W D L F A +/- Pts
1 Republic of Ireland 5 2 0 1 1 1 0 3 1 1 9 6 3 10
2 Russia 5 0 0 1 3 1 0 3 1 1 6 3 3 10
3 Slovakia 5 1 1 0 2 0 1 3 1 1 5 4 1 10
4 Armenia 5 2 1 1 0 1 0 2 2 1 9 4 5 8
5 FYROM 5 0 1 1 1 0 2 1 1 3 5 6 -1 4
6 Andorra 5 0 0 3 0 0 2 0 0 5 1 12 -11 0


That will probably look a mess :)

Still shows us above Slovakia.

Teams P W D L W D L W D L F A +/- Pts
1 Russia 6 1 0 1 3 1 0 4 1 1 9 4 5 13
2 Republic of Ireland 5 2 0 1 1 1 0 3 1 1 9 6 3 10
3 Slovakia 5 1 1 0 2 0 1 3 1 1 5 4 1 10
4 Armenia 6 2 1 1 0 1 1 2 2 2 10 7 3 8
5 FYROM 5 0 1 1 1 0 2 1 1 3 5 6 -1 4
6 Andorra 5 0 0 3 0 0 2 0 0 5 1 12 -11 0


Needs confirming!!

I think goal difference take priority above head to heads, I think heads to head only comes into play
of goal difference is the same.

[holidaysong]

It's head to head first and goal difference only if the head to head is equal.

See Article 7.04 in this (http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/euro/91/87/57/918757_download.pdf) document.

[Noelys Guitar]

http://realtvsport.com/channel.php Slovak game

[DannyInvincible]

Slovakia crack the cross-bar. Andorra still holding out with 20 minutes gone.

[Colbert Report]

Half time 0-0. Interesting.

[Charlie Darwin]

Slovaks are missing a few key players: Mucha in goal, Stoch and Weiss in attack. They'll be relying on Hamsik to dig them out of this.

edit: Mucha might not be such a huge loss considering Andorra haven't had a shot yet.

[DannyInvincible]

1-0 to Slovakia is a final result.

[tricky_colour]

It's head to head first and goal difference only if the head to head is equal.

See Article 7.04 in this (http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/euro/91/87/57/918757_download.pdf) document.


I see, thanks, about time the UEFA site read their own rules then!!

It is a hellishly complicated method even if it is fairer.

[Jicked]

Even if we can't win the group, the play-offs are looking much less daunting then last time with most of the top seeds cruising.

At the moment the teams look like being:

Belgium or Turkey
Slovenia or Serbia
Belarus, Romania, Bosnia or Albania
Sweden
Croatia or Greece or Israel
England or Montenegro
Czech Republic

And remember the best placed of all those qualifies automatically. Currently that would be England/Macedonia's group, but we're right up there. In fact if we beat Slovakia, drew and drew with Russia I'd think even if we ended finishing second we might be the best runner up.

[BonnieShels]

It really is getting tasty isn't it?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Even if we can't win the group, the play-offs are looking much less daunting then last time with most of the top seeds cruising.

At the moment the teams look like being:

Belgium or Turkey
Slovenia or Serbia
Belarus, Romania, Bosnia or Albania
Sweden
Croatia or Greece or Israel
England or Montenegro
Czech Republic

And remember the best placed of all those qualifies automatically. Currently that would be England/Macedonia's group, but we're right up there. In fact if we beat Slovakia, drew and drew with Russia I'd think even if we ended finishing second we might be the best runner up.

Cheers, though the options are as clear as mud....

[BonnieShels]

Mother of god. Listening to Sadlier and McDonnell on NewsTalk.
McDonnell complains that Trap doesn't go to enough games in England. It's a scandal that this chat still continues.

[French Toasht]

Updated Yellow Card Count (Yellow cards last for full campaign)

Whelan (Armenia)
St Ledger (Russia)
Doyle (Russia)
Westwood (Macedonia)
Gibson (Macedonia (H))
Cox (Macedonia (A))

It is of vital importance that none of these lads pick up a yellow against Slovakia as it would rule them out of the Russia game.

However, it would not be the worst if some of these lads picked up a yellow in Moscow, as it would only rule them out of the Andorra game. I seem to remember Roy Keane did something similar in a game against Portugal, picking up a deliberate yellow which ruled him out of the Andorra match and meant he started again on a clean slate against Holland.

As far as Slovakia are concerned, no one is suspended for their match against us. The only player to pick up a yellow yesterday was Robert Jez, his first booking of the campaign.

[DannyInvincible]

In light of the following criteria being applied, in the order given, to determine the rankings in the event of two or more teams finishing equal on points upon completion of the group matches:


1. Higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question.

2. Superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question.

3. Higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question.

4. Higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches played among the teams in question.

5. If, after applying criteria 1) to 4) to several teams, two or more teams still have an equal ranking, the criteria 1) to 4) will be reapplied to determine the ranking of these teams. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria 6) and 7) will apply.

6. Results of all group matches:

i) Superior goal difference.
ii) Higher number of goals scored.
iii) Higher number of goals scored away from home.
iv) Fair play conduct.

7. Drawing of lots.

Am I correct in thinking that if Slovakia, Russia and ourselves all end on 22 points with us beating Slovakia but losing to Russia and Slovakia beating Russia at home, we'd finish the group in third place?

We'd have four points from the four games between the top three, Russia would have six and Slovakia would finish top with seven. It would be crushingly disappointing to finish third with 22 points.

[pineapple stu]

That's basically the reason we're third at the moment, so yes, that's how it'd work alright.

[French Toasht]

I think if we don't end up getting a top two position, I will look back at the away game against Slovakia as a massive two points dropped. That was a game that was there for the taking and I think in the last half hour both sides seemed to accept a draw. Its conservatism like that, that is the difference between winning a group or getting a playoff, and in a group as finely balanced as this it could be the difference in coming 2nd or 3rd.

As regards Macedonia, our involvement with them is over, but I think they still have a massive part to play in our campaign. Every time I look at the fixtures, I think they are going to do us a massive favour on the final day and take points off Slovakia. Can't explain my reasoning for that incling, because it's certainly not form. Call it intuition, but I think it'll be karmas way of making up for Skopje 1999.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And limp into the play-offs.

The only way we can undo this pessimism is to win 2-0 in Moscow....
:rolleyes:

[geysir]

And limp into the play-offs.

The only way we can undo this pessimism is to win 2-0 in Moscow....
:rolleyes:
"We" can't separate you from your pessimism, it is your permanent bedfellow.

[Sullivinho]

As regards Macedonia, our involvement with them is over, but I think they still have a massive part to play in our campaign. Every time I look at the fixtures, I think they are going to do us a massive favour on the final day and take points off Slovakia. Can't explain my reasoning for that incling, because it's certainly not form. Call it intuition, but I think it'll be karmas way of making up for Skopje 1999.

Delighted we've taken 6 points from them. They go to Moscow when we play Slovakia in september too. Here's hoping the Russians have a collective Macedonia.

[geysir]

Getting way ahead, but is the best runner-up spot out of reach for a team having 16 or 17 runner-up points, (results against 6th team not counted).

[pineapple stu]

Best runner-up last time out was Russia and Greece on 16 points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_F irst_Round#Ranking_of_second-placed_teams).

[Charlie Darwin]

I think if we don't end up getting a top two position, I will look back at the away game against Slovakia as a massive two points dropped. That was a game that was there for the taking and I think in the last half hour both sides seemed to accept a draw.
Nonsense. Sure we won a penalty right on half-time from an excellent piece of attacking play.

Interesting point noted in commentary yesterday. In our six qualifiers so far, we've only conceded one goal in the second half of matches. That's some top-quality catenaccio. The 5 first half goals, not so much.

[geysir]

Best runner-up last time out was Russia and Greece on 16 points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%E2%80%93_UEFA_F irst_Round#Ranking_of_second-placed_teams).

That table is certainly interesting but I was rather hoping that someone with sufficient ambition and spare time would scour the tables and suss out the chances of it happening for this campaign :)

[pineapple stu]

Ah yeah - feck that! :p

You'd have to imagine it'll be around about the same mark though. Montenegro lead the way on 11 points from 5 games. If they win their last three games, they top the group (cos they'd have beaten England), so the highest they could get and still come second would be 18 (two wins and a draw). Sweden are the only ones on a better percentage than them at the moment (9 points from four games); they still have to host Holland.

[Eirambler]

Even if we can't win the group, the play-offs are looking much less daunting then last time with most of the top seeds cruising.

At the moment the teams look like being:

Belgium or Turkey
Slovenia or Serbia
Belarus, Romania, Bosnia or Albania
Sweden
Croatia or Greece or Israel
England or Montenegro
Czech Republic

And remember the best placed of all those qualifies automatically. Currently that would be England/Macedonia's group, but we're right up there. In fact if we beat Slovakia, drew and drew with Russia I'd think even if we ended finishing second we might be the best runner up.

Even more headwrecking is that the playoffs are (quite unfairly) seeded by co-efficient and, lets face it, that's where we are headed as we always seem to end up there. As things stand we are on the borderline but we may well end up as a seeded team in the playoffs and would avoid the likes of Sweden, Denmark and the Czechs with Slovenia, Montenegro and Romania being more likely opponents. The co-efficients would affect out seeding in the finals also if we were to qualify, but we would probably end up as bottom seeds in the finals if we get there.

[tommy_c12000]

Last 4 games of the top 3 teams:

Ireland: Slovakia (h) Russia (a) Andorra (a) Armenia (h)
Slovakia: Ireland (a) Armenia (h) Russia (h) Macedonia (a)
Russia: Macedonia (h) Ireland (h) Slovakia (a) Andorra (a)

The very fact that Slovakia will not be facing Andorra places both ourselves and Russia at an immediate advantage. We should pick up 6 points period in our last two games. I'd also expect a home victory against what is a very poor Slovakia side. Then anything can happen in Moscow.
Slovakia have a tricky run in with no gimmes. I'd expect us to definitely finish ahead of Slovakia. But as Johnny Giles says predicting results from fixture lists can be notoriously inaccurate. Still though I fancy our chances of topping the group at this stage.

[Eirambler]

I think its second place all the way looking at the fixtures, even a draw at home to Slovakia might do for that as they look like a team itching to drop points against Armenia and Macedonia. If we beat the Slovaks (and we should be going all out to, because they're not great), we're pretty much guaranteed at least second but even 10 more points might not be enough to top the group so its going to be a big ask.

[shakermaker1982]

10 points should top the group.

Slovakia at home is almost like a Cup final. HUGE game.

[ArdeeBhoy]

"We" can't separate you from your pessimism, it is your permanent bedfellow.

Except I'm a realist. What's your excuse??
;)


Slovakia at home is almost like a Cup final. HUGE game.

I'm not sure I can wait. Or to be disappointed in the play-offs instead?
Anyone want a ticket....

[BonnieShels]

I have mine. Poxy summer getting in the way!

[Littlest Hobo]

Games remaining witg predicted points;

Rep of Ireland: Slovakia (h) (3pts) Russia (a) (0pts) Andorra (a) (3pts) Armenia (h) (3pts) Total P10 Pts22

Slovakia: Ireland (a) (0pts) Armenia (h) (3pts) Russia (h) (1pt) Macedonia (a) (1pt) Total 18pts

Russia: Macedonia (h) (3pts) Ireland (h) (3pts) Slovakia (a) (1pt) Andorra (a) (3pts) Total 23pts

Can see us beat slovakia at home and take six of the minnows. Moscow will be just too tough we'll lose out there.
Reckon slovakia and russia will play out draw and macedonia will take a point from their home game with Slovakia.
We should make the play-off at least.

If we manage a draw in moscow then we should win the group, assuming we beat slovakia home.

All to play for.

[French Toasht]

I just can't see us taking anything in Moscow. That stat about Russia only losing 3 competitive matches at home since WWII puts the enormity of the task in perspective.

In order to even get a playoff in this group we are going to have to do something we have only done once in ten years, and that is beat a side ranked higher than us in the group.

Guess who the only higher seeded team we have beaten since Holland 2001 is?

Slovakia. Lets hope we can repeat that result.

[geysir]

The Russians will be confident they can take us. A few teams have come to Dublin, like France, and Bulgaria, played well and thought the home game was all sewn up.
If we are on our 'away game', a draw is not unrealistic.

[Charlie Darwin]

Not to tempt fate but we haven't lost an away game in almost 4 years.