Stephen Ireland

[SkStu]

Some people are being very insensitive with "boo hoo" comments, this is 2008,

okay, let me get this straight - you want people to feel sorry for Stephen fckin Ireland and yet you want David Langin to go and shiite?

you just keep getting better and better.

[tetsujin1979]

:D:D

He walked, he alone should face the consequences of never been picked again.

20 years ago, David O'Leary refused to travel to Iceland. Charlton banned him from the squad for 2.5 years. We coped and blossomed. As we will without this bloke.
20 years ago, we had McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, etc

[Qwerty]

20 years ago, we had McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, etc

etc.?

[tetsujin1979]

My point was that, even with a player of the quality of O'Leary banished from the squad, the squad was still filled with top quality replacements.
After Andy Reid, Ireland is probably our most creative/attacking central midfielder, and I don't think we can afford to lose him from the squad.

[Kingdom]

My point was that, even with a player of the quality of O'Leary banished from the squad, the squad was still filled with top quality replacements.
After Andy Reid, Ireland is probably our most creative/attacking central midfielder, and I don't think we can afford to lose him from the squad.

At the sake of losing respect for ourselves? And i ask that knowing you as one of the genuine good Ireland supporters. He is a talent no doubt, but there is only so much one can take, and if his inclusion is a risk to the squad?

[mypost]

20 years ago, we had McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, etc

He wasn't banned because of the quality of the squad, he was banned for not turning up at an Ireland end of season get-together to go on holidays. He was only allowed back as a result of a severe injury crisis in the squad when going to Spain 2.5 years later.

Going on holidays, and lieing about the state of grandparents are two completely different things. Even in a severe injury crisis, I would prefer LOI players to play for us over him. They mightn't have the same ability, but they won't lie and lie and lie again, when on international duty.

[tetsujin1979]

At the sake of losing respect for ourselves? And i ask that knowing you as one of the genuine good Ireland supporters. He is a talent no doubt, but there is only so much one can take, and if his inclusion is a risk to the squad?

I guess Ireland's inclusion in the squad (if he does want to be in the squad) will come down to a judgment call between his value as a player vs any detriment he could bring to the squad.
After Ireland, we'd be choosing between Stephen Quinn and Stephen McPhail as a creative, attacking central midfielder. McPhail has been out of the international scene for some time, and I don't think Quinn is ready for senior international football just yet. He still has plenty of time left to learn in the U-21's.
If you want a comparison, consider than Paul Gascoigne was an England regular, despite the fact that everyone knew he wasn't coping with the pressure off the pitch. I suppose Gazza wasn't seen as divisive in the squad, whereas if Ireland's presence is then he should be dropped.

[tetsujin1979]

He wasn't banned because of the quality of the squad, he was banned for not turning up at an Ireland end of season get-together to go on holidays. He was only allowed back as a result of a severe injury crisis in the squad when going to Spain 2.5 years later.Who said anything about him getting banned because of the quality of the squad?
Your point was that the team blossomed, despite losing a player of the quality of O'Leary.
My point was that we had the likes of McCarthy, Moran, McGrath, Lawrenson to play at centre half and O'Leary was easily replaced.
Right now we are suffering for a lack of creativity in centre midfield. Andy Reid is first choice for the playmaker role in the middle of the park, but if he gets injured or suspended then there are few players of his quality available to us. Stephen Ireland is probably the best replacement, and after him (as I stated above) we're looking at the likes of McPhail and Quinn.

[mypost]

If you want a comparison, consider than Paul Gascoigne was an England regular, despite the fact that everyone knew he wasn't coping with the pressure off the pitch. I suppose Gazza wasn't seen as divisive in the squad, whereas if Ireland's presence is then he should be dropped.

The difference been that Gazza never walked out on his country, by lieing about his personal life.

A stand must be taken against Stephen Ireland. If his behaviour is to be condoned, then what chance of other players doing the same?? It's called discipline, so either Trap instills it in the squad, or we become a laughing stock.

[carloz]

Maybe its just me but id be more excited about an Irish team that had McGeady and A Reid playing rather than Ireland. Yes they have there flaws but they dont go missing in games. Ireland has a habit of simply disapearing for long times in games and at international level you simply cant carry a player like that. He was woeful against Sunderland at the weekend(A. Reid as much more impressive). So many times when i have seen City Ireland seems to have a strange attitude. he rarely looks motivated. Yes he is a prospect but that is all he is. I fully expect that he wont be a first teamer for City next year. I he decides to retire then so be it, we will survive just fine

[youngirish]

Maybe its just me but id be more excited about an Irish team that had McGeady and A Reid playing rather than Ireland. Yes they have there flaws but they dont go missing in games. Ireland has a habit of simply disapearing for long times in games and at international level you simply cant carry a player like that. He was woeful against Sunderland at the weekend(A. Reid as much more impressive). So many times when i have seen City Ireland seems to have a strange attitude. he rarely looks motivated. Yes he is a prospect but that is all he is. I fully expect that he wont be a first teamer for City next year. I he decides to retire then so be it, we will survive just fine

100% agree. He has potential that's all. I wouldn't be surprised to see him struggle to maintain a first team place at city after Sven brings in a few players in the summer. Some people here seem to think he's the next Platini.

Ask yourselves this if he actually does develop into a top class player how much of a d*ckhead is he going to be then if he's acting like this when he's achieved nothing in football thus far?

Give him the boot. It might send a message to some of the others in the squad that the new regime mean business and won't tolerate this sort of unprofessional, amateurish conduct that we've become accustomed to for quite some time now in the Ireland setup.

Let him retire, I can't see him being a deciding factor in our qualification bid anyway. Let Garvan take his place in the squad and see how he gets on in a few friendlies.

[eirebhoy]

Joe Hart was doing 'teammates' on Soccer AM. Asked who the most ckillful player was at Cuty, he quickly answered Stephen Ireland.
That's the 2nd Man City player to say that. I think it shows how mature he is on the pitch that he'd rather keep possession at all times than trying to do too much or showboating. He's gonna have one brilliant football brain by time he's at his peak. Himself and Andy Reid could pass teams off the park. Stephen Reid looks to be up to it too. If those 3 players ensured we could dominate possession against teams, the real creativity can come from Duff, McGeady and Keane.

I'd actually like to see the Sunderland game again now. No way was Ireland woeful. Woeful for Ireland would be hiding and regularly losing possession. He was quick thinking, he was at least as involved Petrov and Elano while he was on (City had 60% possession) and he got himself into the box a lot.

[livehead1]

My point was that, even with a player of the quality of O'Leary banished from the squad, the squad was still filled with top quality replacements.
After Andy Reid, Ireland is probably our most creative/attacking central midfielder, and I don't think we can afford to lose him from the squad.

I think we can cope without Steven Ireland and feel we should not pick him for the next few squads, let him think about his future properly whilst we get on with ours. He has been in poor form recently and I don't even think he's currently good enough to start for us.

[Shedender81]

I think we can cope without Steven Ireland and feel we should not pick him for the next few squads, let him think about his future properly whilst we get on with ours. He has been in poor form recently and I don't even think he's currently good enough to start for us.

I dont think you see many of the Irish games.... 6 caps 4 goals.... Needs must..

[jmurphyc]

I dont think you see many of the Irish games.... 6 caps 4 goals.... Needs must..

That stat could be rolled off the tongue by anyone who has never watched him play in their life. So far for us, Stephen Ireland has been poor in most of the games he has played for us. His goalscoring record has been excellent for us but he has done little else to prove that he is worthy of a place in the starting eleven. It's no good if he scores and then goes missing for the other 89 minutes. If a striker were to do that then he could be forgiven but a midfielder should always be trying to impose himself on games and Ireland hasn't done that for us consistently enough. Judging by his last performance in the shirt he won't be missed.

[livehead1]

I dont think you see many of the Irish games.... 6 caps 4 goals.... Needs must..
So by the same token you would drop Robbie Keane due to a poor recent goalscoring record?...I've seen all the games that he is played in; don't make such rash assumptions. For all the goals he has scored for us, he goes missing too often and doesn't have the physical attributes to control a game as a central midfielder, and would potentially have an unsettling and distracting effect on the squad as a whole.

[Wolfie]

Trapp doesn't tolerate fools lightly.

I'd consider Stephen Ireland on his final chance. I'd welcome a meeting with Trapp and let Trapp make up his own mind. Trapp is no fool and if Ireland continued to be divisive,troublesome or lacking commitment - he'll be dealt with swiftly.

The slates clean with a new manager - I'd trust the new Management Team to make the call as to whether Stephen Ireland is worth the bother.

[Paulie]

I don't care how good a player is, this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated. He's been called up to the squad so lets see if he turns up. If not then that's it with this guy as far as I'm concerned. Just one thing though, I will GUARANTEE that even if he does come back this time, this is not the last we will hear of him taking the p*ss with regard to playing for his country.

[Wolfie]

.... I will GUARANTEE that even if he does come back this time, this is not the last we will hear of him taking the p*ss with regard to playing for his country.

Unfortunately couldn't rule anything out with Stephen Ireland - but I think it will be a case of anymore acting the wise-guy and he won't be given another opportunity to "shame the family".

[youngirish]

Ireland future in doubt


April 15, 2008

A morning tabloid report has suggested that Manchester City midfielder Stephen Ireland is not interested in returning to the Irish squad, even though assistant manager Liam Brady is set to have talks with the 21-year-old in the coming weeks.

Ireland has had his fair share of problems with international football and has had much publicised run-ins with Brian Kerr at underage level and more recently caretaker boss Don Givens.

The paper suggests that Ireland has told pals that he does not miss playing international football and following the incident over ‘grannygate’, a lot of the Irish support has turned against him.

I correctly suggested this guy was a plank all those months ago when he lied about not one but both of his grandmother's dying and a lot (not all) of the usual muppets here stuck by him and offered excuse after pitiful excuse for his behaviour. I don't for a second believe his miscarriage story either considering the lies that has preceeded and followed it.

Let it go now. You were wrong. The guy's a severe ar*e. Hope to never see him in an Ireland jersey again and will let my displeasure be heard if I do and I'm at the game.

[kingdom hoop]

Does the fact Trap (a hard task-masker) is willing to countenance his return not suggest we should move on as well?

I'm sure we've all played with the type of fella who although very talented has been touched in other ways too, the fella who needs the arm around the shoulder to make him feel a part of the team, and once he does, he performs. I'm not saying Ireland should get extra special treatment, just specialised, tailored to the person he is. It might be difficult at first, but I'm sure after a couple of weeks with the squad in May any discomfort will be ironed out.

I can take him or leave him. But the team will undoubtedly be better for his inclusion, and so as hard as it might be to forget I, for one, would not boo him, but draw on a touch of compassion and think 'ok this guy's screwed us over in the past, but he's fcuked in the head and he's playing a great game for us, maybe he's seen the light, why boo like that muppet beside me is?' :)

[amaccann]

Clearly Stephen Ireland is like a bottle empty ;)

[Dr. Ogba]

I correctly suggested this guy was a plank all those months ago when he lied about not one but both of his grandmother's dying and a lot (not all) of the usual muppets here stuck by him and offered excuse after pitiful excuse for his behaviour. I don't for a second believe his miscarriage story either considering the lies that has preceeded and followed it.

Let it go now. You were wrong. The guy's a severe ar*e. Hope to never see him in an Ireland jersey again and will let my displeasure be heard if I do and I'm at the game.

Jaysus aren't you great :rolleyes:

[livehead1]

I don't agree with what has gone on but lets not forget that he is only 21!

[lionelhutz]

That's the 2nd Man City player to say that. I think it shows how mature he is on the pitch that he'd rather keep possession at all times than trying to do too much or showboating. He's gonna have one brilliant football brain by time he's at his peak. Himself and Andy Reid could pass teams off the park. Stephen Reid looks to be up to it too. If those 3 players ensured we could dominate possession against teams, the real creativity can come from Duff, McGeady and Keane.

I'd actually like to see the Sunderland game again now. No way was Ireland woeful. Woeful for Ireland would be hiding and regularly losing possession. He was quick thinking, he was at least as involved Petrov and Elano while he was on (City had 60% possession) and he got himself into the box a lot.

Beauty is the eye of the beholder. I'd say this shows he doesn't have the confidence in his own ability (or the character) during games to take on the oppostion. If he is the most skillful player at City why is he not more creative and direct during matches? Keeping possession is one thing but a successful team has to have the creativity to slice their opponents open at crucial times. Its very seldom I see him trying to cut open a defence - all these 5 yard passes are grand if your team is winning and needs to hold possession but what about when theyre behind?? Sure jaysus Carsley could play the 5 yard passing game

And he was poor against Sunderland, made a few of those 5 yard passes but that was about it - no meaningful passes or shots. Petrov and Elano injected a bit of urgency to Citys play which Ireland simply wasnt doing. And I can assure you Petrov was much more involved than Ireland - nearly all Citys attacking play came from him

[Morbo]

I don't agree with what has gone on but lets not forget that he is only 21!
Yes he is 21 not 7, the excuses for Ireland are getting weaker and weaker

[lionelhutz]

That stat could be rolled off the tongue by anyone who has never watched him play in their life. So far for us, Stephen Ireland has been poor in most of the games he has played for us. His goalscoring record has been excellent for us but he has done little else to prove that he is worthy of a place in the starting eleven. It's no good if he scores and then goes missing for the other 89 minutes. If a striker were to do that then he could be forgiven but a midfielder should always be trying to impose himself on games and Ireland hasn't done that for us consistently enough. Judging by his last performance in the shirt he won't be missed.

I've said this before due to his finishing ability - why not play him up front alongside Keane or just in behind. I really don't think he has what it takes to play CM for Ireland (he does disappear for large periods) but I believe his touch and finishing would make him an excellent striker. The only would be he might be too similar to Keane. Perhaps he could be a viable sub for Keane if Keane wasnt playing well

[drinkfeckarse]

I'd be wary of that article. He was quoted if I remember correctly as saying he was interested in coming back or words to those effect after Givens spouted off about him in his press conference. Can't remember where I saw it (may have been here) but I definately remember the article.

I would take everything with a pinch of salt unless it comes from the man himself.

[kingdom hoop]

I would take everything with a pinch of salt

Even really salty bacon? :eek:

[jmurphyc]

I've said this before due to his finishing ability - why not play him up front alongside Keane or just in behind. I really don't think he has what it takes to play CM for Ireland (he does disappear for large periods) but I believe his touch and finishing would make him an excellent striker. The only would be he might be too similar to Keane. Perhaps he could be a viable sub for Keane if Keane wasnt playing well

He played in behind Doyle at home to Slovakia and that was arguably his best game for us. His performances suggest to me that this is the position we should play him in. I wouldn't trust him to lead the line though as he doesn't seem to have enough strength or pace to do this.

[youngirish]

Jaysus aren't you great :rolleyes:

Yeah I think so to. Thanks man.

[Yoda01]

[I]

I correctly suggested this guy was a plank all those months ago when he lied about not one but both of his grandmother's dying and a lot (not all) of the usual muppets here stuck by him and offered excuse after pitiful excuse for his behaviour. I don't for a second believe his miscarriage story either considering the lies that has preceeded and followed it.

Let it go now. You were wrong. The guy's a severe ar*e. Hope to never see him in an Ireland jersey again and will let my displeasure be heard if I do and I'm at the game.

i agree with what you say above, that the lad's not the sharpest and i'm still indifferent about seeing him back in an irish jersey but the miscarraige story is true, i know his girlfriend, and i saw a text he sent a buddy of his over the weekend saying that he doesn't want to come back playing for ireland so i say lets move on and forget about the waster.

[dr_peepee]

Lads , it's tabloid sh!te is what it is... and it's the type of thing that further complicates situations..

I'm stickin to what I saw Ireland say after MOTD about the highlights in his career including representing his country...

I think he wants to come back but is nervous of how he's gonna be treated by the fans after the Granny incident... Articles like that don't contribute anything.

[lionelhutz]

He played in behind Doyle at home to Slovakia and that was arguably his best game for us. His performances suggest to me that this is the position we should play him in. I wouldn't trust him to lead the line though as he doesn't seem to have enough strength or pace to do this.

Ya I'd agree. There's no way he could be our main striker but playing behind a front man would suit him perfectly - like the Elano role for City. I don't think Keane could lead the line either though so they wouldn't work as a partnership

[Superhoops]

....I'm stickin to what I saw Ireland say after MOTD about the highlights in his career including representing his country....

You saw what he said :D Don't remember subtitles!

Was the sound gone on your telly and you had to lip read?

[eirebhoy]

all these 5 yard passes are grand if your team is winning and needs to hold possession but what about when theyre behind??
5 yard passes is all that's needed to pass a team off the park and play some of the most attractive football. Carsley can play a 5 yard pass but I doubt he's any use playing one touch passing and playing different types of passes. Carsley has good defensive positional sense but he rarely knows what he's going to do with the ball before he even gets it. Players like Ireland do. It comes natural to him and he'll release the ball as soon as it comes to him.

I just think we're not used to a player of S.Ireland's style in this country. He's too laid back on the pitch. We're used to players showing tremendous desire and even anger in their play.

Ireland's ~40 passes a game are effective. Even if 39 of those are simple 5 yard passes. If A.Reid, S.Reid, Duff, Keane and McGeady were all passing it as quickly as him while rarely giving it away it would be an absolute joy to watch. A style of football rarely seen from an Irish team and I think we're capable of it with our current set of players. And chances and goals are bound to come with those players in the team.

[youngirish]

Ireland's ~40 passes a game are effective. Even if 39 of those are simple 5 yard passes. If A.Reid, S.Reid, Duff, Keane and McGeady were all passing it as quickly as him while rarely giving it away it would be an absolute joy to watch. A style of football rarely seen from an Irish team and I think we're capable of it with our current set of players. And chances and goals are bound to come with those players in the team.
A Reid is far more comfortable on the ball (including his passing) than Stephen Ireland. I'd rate Keane as having similar ability on the ball.

The problem with Ireland anyway is that other than his distribution he offers little to a team. A modern midfielder needs to rely on more than just a single attribute of his game.

[dr_peepee]

You saw what he said :D Don't remember subtitles!

Was the sound gone on your telly and you had to lip read?

I smell colours too!!!

[Dr. Ogba]

5 yard passes is all that's needed to pass a team off the park and play some of the most attractive football. Carsley can play a 5 yard pass but I doubt he's any use playing one touch passing and playing different types of passes. Carsley has good defensive positional sense but he rarely knows what he's going to do with the ball before he even gets it. Players like Ireland do. It comes natural to him and he'll release the ball as soon as it comes to him.

I just think we're not used to a player of S.Ireland's style in this country. He's too laid back on the pitch. We're used to players showing tremendous desire and even anger in their play.

Ireland's ~40 passes a game are effective. Even if 39 of those are simple 5 yard passes. If A.Reid, S.Reid, Duff, Keane and McGeady were all passing it as quickly as him while rarely giving it away it would be an absolute joy to watch. A style of football rarely seen from an Irish team and I think we're capable of it with our current set of players. And chances and goals are bound to come with those players in the team.

the simple passes are only one part of the equation - the next, and just as important part is off the ball movement, something which we never saw under the previous few managers. Hopefully Trap can get us playing a pass and move kind of game cause I think we finally have the kind of players that can do this (the lads you mentioned above being the main players capable of doing this.)

[eirebhoy]

A Reid is far more comfortable on the ball (including his passing) than Stephen Ireland.
Of course he is. I probably could have phrased that sentence better. Basically, 5 Stephen Ireland's could pass teams off the park (obviously ignoring what'd happen when they lose possession :)). 5 yard passes is all that's needed. Those 5 yard passes will look a lot more effective if his teammates have the proper positional sense and decision making skills. I definitely think we have enough players now with excellent technique to compliment and get the best out of each other.

[jmurphyc]

I remember the game away to San Marino was the first time I properly payed attention to him in an Ireland shirt. He was my MOTM (although there weren't exactly many candidates that night) and even though it was against a very poor team he really impressed me and I likened him to a raw version of Andy Reid. He's a player with plenty of creativity and if he could learn to improve his positioning and get himself into games more then he would be a huge asset to us. I'd love to see him back in an Ireland shirt but I fear if the media reports are true that he may well have blown his final chance. He'll probably regret it a lot more than we will.

[mypost]

Players like Ireland do. It comes natural to him and he'll release the ball as soon as it comes to him.

I just think we're not used to a player of S.Ireland's style in this country. He's too laid back on the pitch. We're used to players showing tremendous desire and even anger in their play.

Ireland's ~40 passes a game are effective. And chances and goals are bound to come with those players in the team.

Our team rarely had great players, but what we always had until recently, was great team spirit, which got the job done.

Holland have always had a team full of Stephen Ireland cry babies. Great players individually, but who failed to deliver when the chips were down. How many world-class players did Greece have 4 years ago? Look where it got them.

[youngirish]

Of course he is. I probably could have phrased that sentence better. Basically, 5 Stephen Ireland's could pass teams off the park (obviously ignoring what'd happen when they lose possession :)). 5 yard passes is all that's needed. Those 5 yard passes will look a lot more effective if his teammates have the proper positional sense and decision making skills. I definitely think we have enough players now with excellent technique to compliment and get the best out of each other.

Ever the optimist eirebhoy. I personally think we're about 4 players short to rely on such a strategy. When you're playing the likes of Carsely, Kilbane and O'Shea in the same team who couldn't distribute the ball if their life depended on it you are always going to struggle to implement any short passing game because inevitably after all your hard work previously to create openings using precise short passes the ball will eventually find itself at the feet of one of the large proportion of donkeys in the team and they'll struggle to find a teammate to connect to the next link in the chain or just simply not even try and hoof it forward.

[eirebhoy]

Anyway, point being, you don't pass teams off the park with 20 yard passes. It's the short passes that do it and Ireland is being critisised on here for just keeping things simple and doing nothing spectacular.

[youngirish]

Anyway, point being, you don't pass teams off the park with 20 yard passes. It's the short passes that do it and Ireland is being critisised on here for just keeping things simple and doing nothing spectacular.

Not by me. His short passing is fine I just think he's fairly limited in all other aspects of his game (shooting, scoring goals, running with the ball, tackling, intercepting passes, heading, crossing - need I go on?).

[eirebhoy]

Thankfully none of those attributes are really needed to become a top playmaker. He just needs the games and he'll obviously become more intelligent and dominant.

What do you think of Niko Kranjcar btw? I think they're similar.

[jmurphyc]

Thankfully none of those attributes are really needed to become a top playmaker. He just needs the games and he'll obviously become more intelligent and dominant.

One thing which I think he desperately needs to improve is his positioning/off the ball. He is often too far away from the point of play to be able to make an impact. This is the one aspect which I think lets him down and could prevent him from fulfilling his potential.

[tetsujin1979]

A Reid is far more comfortable on the ball (including his passing) than Stephen Ireland. I'd rate Keane as having similar ability on the ball.Reid is also far more experienced than Ireland, he doesn't have 3 full seasons under his belt yet, Reid is coming up on his eighth season in professional football


The problem with Ireland anyway is that other than his distribution he offers little to a team. A modern midfielder needs to rely on more than just a single attribute of his game.
4 goals in 5 games?

[dr_peepee]

Not by me. His short passing is fine I just think he's fairly limited in all other aspects of his game (shooting, scoring goals, running with the ball, tackling, intercepting passes, heading, crossing - need I go on?).

Nothing wrong with his shooting, scoring (Check his goals for city) or running with the ball. (He's not McGeady or Duff but check his goal v wales)

[youngirish]

Nothing wrong with his shooting, scoring (Check his goals for city) or running with the ball. (He's not McGeady or Duff but check his goal v wales)

6 goals in nearly 90 appearances is not a good goal tally for an offensive midfielder by any stretch of the imagination. Tets he played 6 games for Ireland btw.