Stephen Ireland

[DeLorean]

You can just say you'd prefer not to answer you know... save me the suspense.

[Stuttgart88]

I can't wait either. I think he picks and chooses which questions he answers. I'm still waiting on whether he thought the Doyle penalty not given and Andrews goal ruled out against Georgia were unlucky.

[SwanVsDalton]

He was Aston Villa supporters' Player of the Season in 2011/2012. Short memory? And as for the 2012/2013 season, ask Darren Bent, Alan Hutton, Shay Given, Enda Stevens and Barry Bannan about Paul Lambert's unique take on managing players. In the here and now, he has been good for Stoke. More goals (and probably assists) in half a season than Glenn Whelan has in over four years. More goals (4 in 6) for Ireland than Whelan in over 50 games. I just find the laissez-faire attitude about Ireland coming back a bit strange when we keep questioning where the goals and creativity are going to come from.

Sorry but this passage turned my stomach a bit.

Stephen Ireland's only run of first team games came under Alex McLeish, the most dismal manager who oversaw the most dismaying Villa season since Jo Venglos. Even worse than Graham Taylor v.2. Not exactly a vote for Stevie if I'm honest.

But McLeish is supposed to be a better judge than Lambert - and just look at that list you have to prove it. Bent (lazy and expensive), Hutton (a tube and thuggish), Given (regrettably past it), Stevens (not up to it) and Bannan (ditto). Is this really the argument you want to be making?

Meanwhile Ireland was voted player of the season, in a season when there was a groundswell of support for the award to go to the catering company who made the half-time Balti Pies. He got it arbitrarily because he was the only 'creative' player in a team - the same arbitrariness that says we'd be better off begging him to come back than developing players who actually want to play for us. The award proves nothing (as DeLorean pointed out, Richard Keogh?).

Not fussed on getting into the rest of your response, just doesn't seem Friday night friendly. I will say I'm not unsympathetic to Stephen Ireland, I just don't care about him. Two kids? Young? Big deal, we're talking about a footballer, not a charity case.

He's big enough and old enough to make his own decisions and that's what he's been doing so far ie deciding not to play for his country. That's his call but his call only. And I call shenanigans on any attempt to put some Trap spin on it.

[BonnieShels]

A wonderful post SvD and pretty much sums up the 150-odd pages since his exile. Can we now banish any talks of him playing for us until he is called up. Thanks. That'd be just grand.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Sorry but this passage turned my stomach a bit.

Stephen Ireland's only run of first team games came under Alex McLeish, the most dismal manager who oversaw the most dismaying Villa season since Jo Venglos. Even worse than Graham Taylor v.2. Not exactly a vote for Stevie if I'm honest.

But McLeish is supposed to be a better judge than Lambert - and just look at that list you have to prove it. Bent (lazy and expensive), Hutton (a tube and thuggish), Given (regrettably past it), Stevens (not up to it) and Bannan (ditto). Is this really the argument you want to be making?

Meanwhile Ireland was voted player of the season, in a season when there was a groundswell of support for the award to go to the catering company who made the half-time Balti Pies. He got it arbitrarily because he was the only 'creative' player in a team - the same arbitrariness that says we'd be better off begging him to come back than developing players who actually want to play for us. The award proves nothing (as DeLorean pointed out, Richard Keogh?).

Not fussed on getting into the rest of your response, just doesn't seem Friday night friendly. I will say I'm not unsympathetic to Stephen Ireland, I'm just don't care about him. Two kids? Young? Big deal, we're talking about a footballer, not a charity case.

He's big enough and old enough to make his own decisions and that's what he's been doing so far ie deciding not to play for his country. That's his call but his call only. And I call shenanigans on any attempt to put some Trap spin on it.

Alex McLeish is a proven Premier League manager and for all the vitriol aimed in his direction, Villa are no better off under Lambert.

Bent, Hutton and Given are all proven Premier League players. Fans and Premier League managers operate under the assumption that Bannan is too, as he is highly rated by Palace fans and had a move to another PL team fall through on Deadline Day. Stevens didn't shame himself when he got a brief run in the team. He didn't play again after conceding a penalty against Southampton (that shouldn't have been given to begin with).

I was merely replying to someone saying that Ireland has barely played over three seasons when half a season is more like it but you can spin winning Supporters' Player of the Season any way you want. It's not an accolade Keith "Jazz Hands" Andrews or Glenn Whelan are ever in danger of winning.

He's not a charity case but he deserved/s empathy and not mockery and vitriol.

He's receptive to coming back and reports indicate that he will be selected for the Serbia game. As I said previously, if he turns that down I would accept whatever course of action the new management take.

I'm not putting a Trap spin on it.

He had a meeting with Trapattoni and Tardelli and instead of encouraging him to come back, we got the same blase, ham-fisted attempts at player management that was endemic throughout two thirds of the Trapattoni era. Just like the borderline libellous comments made about Stephen Kelly, the career damaging comments made about Steven Reid, the treatment of Kevin Foley, the near fistfight with Andy Reid...

Two wrongs don't make a right. Ireland may be self-indulged but he isn't paid a salary to play for Ireland. Trapattoni was paid a ridiculous salary to manage the team and manage players properly and he didn't do it and he got a free pass for the Ireland meeting because of people's preconceived preconceptions about Ireland.

[SwanVsDalton]

Alex McLeish is a proven Premier League manager and for all the vitriol aimed in his direction, Villa are no better off under Lambert.

Hey, look here - no. Anyone who watched much of them then and now would agree. Villa ain't great now, but they're light years ahead of the turgid McLeish year-of-horror.

As for the players Hutton is terrible, Bent is widely overrated and a passenger, Given was rightly dropped and kept out of the team by the much better Guzan. Bannan can be tidy but never performed for Villa, can't see him being more than bit part for any PL club. Stevens will never make it in the PL. I'm not convinced you've ever actually watched these guys, particularly since you've fallen back on 'Palace fans think that' and 'Villa fans voted for this'. Unfortunately I am a Villa fan so have seen far too much of them (the horror).

The rest of the Ireland stuff...I can't take no more I'm afraid.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Hey, look here - no. Anyone who watched much of them then and now would agree. Villa ain't great now, but they're light years ahead of the turgid McLeish year-of-horror.

As for the players Hutton is terrible, Bent is widely overrated and a passenger, Given was rightly dropped and kept out of the team by the much better Guzan. Bannan can be tidy but never performed for Villa, can't see him being more than bit part for any PL club. Stevens will never make it in the PL. I'm not convinced you've ever actually watched these guys, particularly since you've fallen back on 'Palace fans think that' and 'Villa fans voted for this'. Unfortunately I am a Villa fan so have seen far too much of them (the horror).

The rest of the Ireland stuff...I can't take no more I'm afraid.

Hutton is not a terrible player and it pains me to say that after what he did to Shane Long. He has played for big clubs like Rangers and Tottenham and has just had a hugely productive loan spell at Real Mallorca. Darren Bent has an average of a goal in every 2 and a half games for Villa and scored more than one in every two games for Sunderland before that. Capped by England 13 times too so passenger is a bit of an exaggeration. Bannan headhunted by several PL clubs when links with similarly profiled Irish players, sadly, rarely go beyond paper talk. A fully fit Given can still do a job for a PL team even if Guzan is better. Guzan was also given the benefit of the doubt several times, when in similar circumstances, Given was unceremoniously turfed out. Too early to judge Stevens on if he is up to the standard but you can't say he is out of his depth when he was thrown in in the deep end and performed admirably against Utd, City and Arsenal.

Good and bad with McLeish. Consolidated Premier League football for Villa. A couple of relegations along with a 9th placed finish and League Cup win for Birmingham. Hugely successful with Rangers. If you are judging him on the way he sets his teams out to play football then I dread to think of how you perceive Trapattoni and even Lambert.

As for Ireland, I can wait and see. We need to move forward with players like Reid, Hoolahan, Ireland and O'Kane. Less of the 4-4-2 and men-ta-li-ty.

I know it's tortuous for some people but one way or other we will know if Ireland is coming back by May or June at the latest and hopefully next month.

[CraftyToePoke]

Alex McLeish is a proven Premier League manager

Bit of a stretch there again TWOK.

[tetsujin1979]

Alex McLeish is a proven Premier League manager and for all the vitriol aimed in his direction, Villa are no better off under Lambert.McLeish managed to get Birmingham relegated in 2010/11 scoring less than a goal a game, and a year later Villa were no better than them under his reign. They managed to stay up despite finishing the season a point worse off than Birmingham in their relegation season and with the same scoring record - 37 goals in 38 games. Under Lambert, Villa were 5 points clear of relegation last season and scored 47 goals in 38 games. How exactly are they "no better off"


Hutton is not a terrible player and it pains me to say that after what he did to Shane Long. He has played for big clubs like Rangers and Tottenham and has just had a hugely productive loan spell at Real Mallorca.Mallorca were relegated last season, and won only 5 games of the 17 he played in.


Too early to judge Stevens on if he is up to the standard but you can't say he is out of his depth when he was thrown in in the deep end and performed admirably against Utd, City and Arsenal.
Villa drew 0-0 with Arsenal, lost 3-2 to United and 5-0 to City in those games.


Good and bad with McLeish. Consolidated Premier League football for Villa. A couple of relegations along with a 9th placed finish and League Cup win for Birmingham. Hugely successful with Rangers.
Consolidated is stretching it (see above). Success at Rangers (or Celtic for that matter) is almost immaterial. It's harder to not win something in Scotland when you're in charge of either of the Old Firm.


If you are judging him on the way he sets his teams out to play football then I dread to think of how you perceive Trapattoni and even Lambert.That's how every manager, everywhere is judged.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Bit of a stretch there again TWOK.

9th placed finish with Birmingham sandwiched with two relegations. League Cup win over Arsenal. Helped Villa stay up. Jury is still out I suppose.

Just as much a PL manager as Mick McCarthy anyway.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

McLeish managed to get Birmingham relegated in 2010/11 scoring less than a goal a game, and a year later Villa were no better than them under his reign. They managed to stay up despite finishing the season a point worse off than Birmingham in their relegation season and with the same scoring record - 37 goals in 38 games. Under Lambert, Villa were 5 points clear of relegation last season and scored 47 goals in 38 games. How exactly are they "no better off"

So having more defensive stability and conceding less goals counts for nothing if you score less goals? And there is not a huge difference between 5 points and 2 points.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

McLeish managed to get Birmingham relegated in 2010/11 scoring less than a goal a game, and a year later Villa were no better than them under his reign. They managed to stay up despite finishing the season a point worse off than Birmingham in their relegation season and with the same scoring record - 37 goals in 38 games. Under Lambert, Villa were 5 points clear of relegation last season and scored 47 goals in 38 games. How exactly are they "no better off"

Mallorca were relegated last season, and won only 5 games of the 17 he played in.


Villa drew 0-0 with Arsenal, lost 3-2 to United and 5-0 to City in those games.


Consolidated is stretching it (see above). Success at Rangers (or Celtic for that matter) is almost immaterial. It's harder to not win something in Scotland when you're in charge of either of the Old Firm.

That's how every manager, everywhere is judged.

Mallorca only won 5 out of 17 games? If they were Real Madrid, Barca, Atletico Madrid or Valencia, they would be expected to win more. It's harsh to accuse Hutton of having a hand in them getting relegated when he played half a season with them. Besides they wanted to make the loan permanent.

Ah come on now. Are you being serious? I am judging Stevens on his performances not the results of the team. In any case, he helped Villa to three clean sheets and in the same time frame they conceded 15 goals against Chelsea (a), Spurs (h) and Wigan (h) without him in the team.

Fine. Rangers and Celtic have a monopoly over the rest of the League. In any case, two League Championships and last 16 in the Champions League in which they went out on away goals to (at that point one of the best teams in Europe) Villarreal.

If that's how every manager is judged then how does Trapattoni get any praise whatsoever for Ireland's performances under his stewardship? They were, by and large, rancid.

[Charlie Darwin]

Too early to judge Stevens on if he is up to the standard but you can't say he is out of his depth when he was thrown in in the deep end and performed admirably against Utd, City and Arsenal.
Eh, I'm a Rovers fan and I want to see Enda do well as much as anyone, but he hasn't made the grade at Villa and has all but been shown the door. If he can make it at Championship level, I'll be absolutely delighted for him.

[Junior]

Fine. Rangers and Celtic have a monopoly over the rest of the League. In any case, two League Championships and last 16 in the Champions League in which they went out on away goals to (at that point one of the best teams in Europe) Villarreal.

Just to continue the admittedly small point on his managerial 'success' in Scotland.

That is right, it was a two team league throughout his tenure at Rangers (4.5 - 5 seasons). Yet he managed to guide Rangers to third spot in season 05/06 - hence his departure at the end of that season. He also won no silverware 03/04. He did win two titles which you rightly state (one by +1 GD, the other by +1 point) one of which was part of a treble but it was fine margins with his two league titles , he also managed to guide Rangers to 7 straight losses against Celtic. Whilst no doubt Big Eck won some trophies in Scotland - I certainly wouldn't use that as any testament to his managerial credentials.

[tetsujin1979]

Just to continue the admittedly small point on his managerial 'success' in Scotland.

That is right, it was a two team league throughout his tenure at Rangers (4.5 - 5 seasons). Yet he managed to guide Rangers to third spot in season 05/06 - hence his departure at the end of that season. He also won no silverware 03/04. He did win two titles which you rightly state (one by +1 GD, the other by +1 point) one of which was part of a treble but it was fine margins with his two league titles , he also managed to guide Rangers to 7 straight losses against Celtic. Whilst no doubt Big Eck won some trophies in Scotland - I certainly wouldn't use that as any testament to his managerial credentials.

Celtic also had the distraction of the UEFA Cup Final during one of those league wins.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Are we really going to start trivialising League Championships because they were only won by the odd point or odd goal? I think you can put that any number of ways. The cynical would say it's fluky, others would call it strength in endurance. The League title was essentially lost before McLeish arrived at the club in his first season (yet he still managed to win two trophies) so fundamentally, he won two out of a possible four League Championships, spending a pittance compared to Celtic in the process. In his first full season, he won the Domestic treble - including the first of two League titles. He also consolidated Rangers position as a decent force in European football again after overseeing Rangers become the first Scottish team to progress through a European group stage. He did all this with little or no money to spend after the nonchalant spending of the Advocaat reign. He inherited an aging squad, lost players like Amoruso, McCann and Ferguson and then had to replace them with Bosman free transfers and loan signings.

He also won a trophy and got a top 10 finish for Birmingham City, finished SPL runners up with Motherwell and garnered a Scottish Cup runners-up medal with Hibernian, so he is clearly not that bad a manager.

He didn't run Aston Villa in to the ground like a lot of people think. He done as good a job as Lambert is doing and look at the amount of silly signings he's made. As someone else pointed out, Aston Villa might have scored ten less goals under McLeish in the League but they conceded sixteen more under Lambert the following season. So much for steadying the ship. :rolleyes: For all the Villa fans vitriol, three more points was the difference between the McLeish and Lambert reigns, and Villa are in another relegation battle this year after wasting money left, right and centre on unproven players and ostracising several other experienced pros.

[Stuttgart88]

Claudio Cannigia of Rangers said the only reason they won the league was because of Celtic's UEFA cup run.

[geysir]

Claudio Cannigia of Rangers said the only reason they won the league was because of Celtic's UEFA cup run.
Celtic finished the season very strong that year, as Charlie would no doubt concur, even beating Rangers at Ibrox.
Chris Sutton had a more precise explanation, to do with Dunfermline lying down belly-up at Ibrox, meanwhile Kilmarnock were wasting time, diving, playing the corners, to hang on to a 4 goal deficit against Celtic

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Semantics.

Teams like Real Madrid, Barcelona and pre David Moyes Man Utd used to get an extra 8 or 9 points a season because of refereeing decisions. Italy is self-explanatory. The Old Firm had favourable decisions that season and every other. Whatever about Kilmarnock, you have to give Dunfermline the benefit of the doubt.

[DannyInvincible]

pre David Moyes Man Utd used to get an extra 8 or 9 points a season because of refereeing decisions.

Can you provide examples of such favourable decisions, and, if what you claim was indeed the case, why would it make any difference to referees now that Moyes is in charge?

[Charlie Darwin]

Can you provide examples of such favourable decisions, and, if what you claim was indeed the case, why would it make any difference to referees now that Moyes is in charge?
There was a remarkable statistic - I'll try and find it for you - where Manchester United didn't concede a single penalty at Old Trafford for something like 14 years until Arsenal won one around the turn of the century.

[DannyInvincible]

There was a remarkable statistic - I'll try and find it for you - where Manchester United didn't concede a single penalty at Old Trafford for something like 14 years until Arsenal won one around the turn of the century.

Hehe, so was it a case of remarkably good defending or remarkably bad refereeing? In other words, were there clear instances where visiting teams were probably deserving of penalties but had their appeals waved away by (cowardly or agenda-driven?) referees?

[Charlie Darwin]

Hehe, so was it a case of remarkably good defending or remarkably bad refereeing? In other words, were there clear instances where visiting teams were probably deserving of penalties but had their appeals waved away by (cowardly or agenda-driven?) referees?
I don't think anybody would suggest it was a result of remarkably good defending. Alex Ferguson's teams, for all their virtues, were always well capable of cynicism.

[CraftyToePoke]

Surely there was a bit of it because visiting teams would not have spent very much time in possession, proportionally, in the home penalty area, to get a penalty, due to the dominance of that side through that era ? Particularly at home. I say, a bit of it owing to that, not totally, but it is a factor.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd say that's a lot of it, yeah. The corollary is true too - people would complain about United always getting penalties at Old Trafford, but a lot of that was the fact they were constantly running at defenders in the box. Arsenal and Liverpool have had a lot of penalties in recent seasons too for the same reason.

[Stuttgart88]

What is this argument about exactly? That McLeish is a "proven" Premier League manager?

We can easily prove that he's managed in the Premier League but the jury is certainly out, at best, that he did anything particularly good on a consistent basis.

It remains to be seen whether Lambert is any better. If pushed, I'd have to say that I see more in Lambert than I do in McLeish. The latter is very old school and I'm not sure he'll land another decent role again. He could be a short term fix for a defensively fragile squad lacking discipline, but he's not a manager who'd take a team with potential and turn them into the next Swansea. McLeish has peaked, Lambert still has time to prove himself.

[OwlsFan]

There was a remarkable statistic - I'll try and find it for you - where Manchester United didn't concede a single penalty at Old Trafford for something like 14 years until Arsenal won one around the turn of the century.

I am pretty sure that statistic is incorrect.

[bennocelt]

Baffled to how anyone can think Mcleish is a decent manager. Hell even Lennon is winning titles in Scotland. Whats Mcleish doing these days?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Baffled to how anyone can think Mcleish is a decent manager. Hell even Lennon is winning titles in Scotland. Whats Mcleish doing these days?

The same Neil Lennon that has been linked with the managerial job at Norwich?

Top 10 PL finish. League Cup. Automatic promotion to the PL. Numerous trophies with a downsizing Rangers. Good European run. 2nd place SPL finish with Motherwell. Cup final run with Hibs.

It's not that bad to have on the CV.

IDK why I'm defending him. He isn't even Irish! I guess he signs/plays a lot of Irish players i.e. Fahey, O'Shea and Stevens so that's something. :p

[Stuttgart88]

You're defending him because you made a slightly contentious claim that someone had the temerity to counter. As usual you then follow up with about two dozen posts getting progressively firmer in conviction. You rattle off stats where a subjective judgement would be more telling (such as why is no club showing even the remotest interest in hiring McLeish) and you just won't let another opinion go unchallenged until you flog your argument to death and everyone just gives up out of boredom. I'd say that's why - it's what you do :)

[SwanVsDalton]

He didn't run Aston Villa in to the ground like a lot of people think. He done as good a job as Lambert is doing and look at the amount of silly signings he's made. As someone else pointed out, Aston Villa might have scored ten less goals under McLeish in the League but they conceded sixteen more under Lambert the following season. So much for steadying the ship. :rolleyes: For all the Villa fans vitriol, three more points was the difference between the McLeish and Lambert reigns, and Villa are in another relegation battle this year after wasting money left, right and centre on unproven players and ostracising several other experienced pros.

Statistics are not the full story.

Statistics do not show how thoroughly lily-livered McLeish was as Villa manager. How he regularly set his teams up, against even middling opposition, with no plan or conception of winning the game. How he had zero attacking plan throughout his reign. How he often shrugged his shoulders post-game and pretty much said 'ah well, we're just a small club, my hands are tied' when he was well supported financially, had a much stronger squad than Lambert and yet was completely cowardly in his usage of it.

Just go back and watch Villa under McLeish and then watch them under Lambert. Still limited? Sure. But at least Lambert has some idea of an attacking game plan. At least he doesn't give up when facing bigger clubs, meaning under him Villa have recorded unexpected, and fantastic wins, against the likes of Arsenal, Manchester City, Liverpool and others. At least Villa are competing.

There is simply no contest between the reigns of the two, and until you let go of your statistics and actually do some research into the issue, you'll fail to see this point. The 'Lambert is no better than McLeish' argument is pure Sky Sports barstoolery.

[geysir]

Hehe, so was it a case of remarkably good defending or remarkably bad refereeing? In other words, were there clear instances where visiting teams were probably deserving of penalties but had their appeals waved away by (cowardly or agenda-driven?) referees?
There was one I remember not so long ago against Fulham at Old Trafford, near the end of the game, some Fulham guy was blatantly tripped in the box, the ref waved play on.
MU won 1-0.
In general, as regards the penalty stats (http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Premier_League_Penalty_Statistics.html) (conceded and won) they're much of a muchness.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Statistics are not the full story.

Statistics do not show how thoroughly lily-livered McLeish was as Villa manager. How he regularly set his teams up, against even middling opposition, with no plan or conception of winning the game. How he had zero attacking plan throughout his reign. How he often shrugged his shoulders post-game and pretty much said 'ah well, we're just a small club, my hands are tied' when he was well supported financially, had a much stronger squad than Lambert and yet was completely cowardly in his usage of it.

Just go back and watch Villa under McLeish and then watch them under Lambert. Still limited? Sure. But at least Lambert has some idea of an attacking game plan. At least he doesn't give up when facing bigger clubs, meaning under him Villa have recorded unexpected, and fantastic wins, against the likes of Arsenal, Manchester City, Liverpool and others. At least Villa are competing.

There is simply no contest between the reigns of the two, and until you let go of your statistics and actually do some research into the issue, you'll fail to see this point.

At least Alex McLeish has a concept of how to perform the basic concept of fundamental defending. The ineptitude and erratic nature of the way Villa are set out to attack doesn't cover their well-known defensive failings.

I did do research. People call Alex a crap manager yet he had a better goal difference and his Villa team finished just 3 points worse off than Lambert's yet the latter isn't a crap manager; despite Villa being entrenched in another relegation battle, in what is a weak bottom half of the table.

[SwanVsDalton]

At least Alex McLeish has a concept of how to perform the basic concept of fundamental defending. The ineptitude and erratic nature of the way Villa are set out to attack doesn't cover their well-known defensive failings.

I did do research. People call Alex a crap manager yet he had a better goal difference and his Villa team finished just 3 points worse off than Lambert's yet the latter isn't a crap manager; despite Villa being entrenched in another relegation battle, in what is a weak bottom half of the table.

But they had no concept of basic defending. Defending under McLeish was completely awful. Comparing two rank-bad defences is not going to help your argument, particularly when McLeish had two experienced centre halves (Dunne and Collins) unlike Lambert who has had to rely on Vlaar (new to the PL) with either Clark or Baker. Dunne has also never looked worse than when he played in that season under McLeish. He was terrible for Villa, unrecognisable from the player who went to Moscow at the same time and performed heroics.

With Villa, McLeish was a give-up artist who enervated a decent bunch of players with unrelenting negativity. If you can't see how this differs from Lambert's approach which, is actually far more positive than McLeish's, then I think it's best to just move on.

[Stuttgart88]

Is there a statistic that can illustrate your point? If not it's not really much of an opinion.

[geysir]

McLeish has a much better record north of the border than south where he rarely rose above mediocre. He did very well with Scotland, in hindsight probably should have stayed there but I guess it didn't pay very much.

[bennocelt]

The same Neil Lennon that has been linked with the managerial job at Norwich?

Top 10 PL finish. League Cup. Automatic promotion to the PL. Numerous trophies with a downsizing Rangers. Good European run. 2nd place SPL finish with Motherwell. Cup final run with Hibs.

It's not that bad to have on the CV.

IDK why I'm defending him. He isn't even Irish! I guess he signs/plays a lot of Irish players i.e. Fahey, O'Shea and Stevens so that's something. :p

Lennon would be wise to stay in celtic, cant even win the treble, he would be found out quick enough down south. What you can do in the SPL means SFA.
Where is this great manager Mcleish nowadays?

[pineapple stu]

There was a remarkable statistic - I'll try and find it for you - where Manchester United didn't concede a single penalty at Old Trafford for something like 14 years until Arsenal won one around the turn of the century.
Is this the one (http://talksport.com/magazine/features/120327/proof-man-united-dont-get-more-pen-decisions-any-other-club-167992)?

Three penalties conceded at Old Trafford between 1993 and 2004.

Course, that doesn't necessarily say anything about referees. It could just be that they only conceded three penalties in that time.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is this the one (http://talksport.com/magazine/features/120327/proof-man-united-dont-get-more-pen-decisions-any-other-club-167992)?

Three penalties conceded at Old Trafford between 1993 and 2004.

Course, that doesn't necessarily say anything about referees. It could just be that they only conceded three penalties in that time.
Could be it, I read it in a book recently but there's no index annoyingly. I'll have a look tomorrow hopefully.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9202055/premier-league-mark-hughes-wants-to-keep-stephen-ireland-at-stoke-city

Stoke want to sign Ireland on permanent deal.

[Charlie Darwin]

He's already on a permanent deal. They want to extend it.

[Stuttgart88]

Maybe that'll be the club security he needs to make a decision on his international appetite. He should make himself available for May / June now or else eff off.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Last chance saloon.

[geysir]

He hasn't signed the deal yet,
"does Mark Hughes really appreciate me?"
"do they really value me enough?"
I expect the state of emotional and contractual insecurity to drag on through the summer.
It's quite draining actually, how can we expect him to be of sound body and mind to put himself on the line for his country?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Had a stonking game for Stoke yesterday, albeit just v. West Ham.
Games like that, just underline the frustration of his being in the. international wilderness.

Of his own making...

[as_i_say]

He hasn't signed the deal yet,
"does Mark Hughes really appreciate me?"
"do they really value me enough?"
I expect the state of emotional and contractual insecurity to drag on through the summer.
It's quite draining actually, how can we expect him to be of sound body and mind to put himself on the line for his country?

One can't. History has proved that he is in fact, a nutball.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I think Stephen Ireland can be a valuable member of the team. He is too talented to ignore. However, he really needs to make a firm decision after he signs a long-term contract at Stoke. No more faffing about.

Nutball? Since when are modesty, intelligence and humility traits associated with footballers?

[Fixer82]

Stephen Ireland should watch this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXt6GtMxOI8) and if he doesn't feel proud to be Irish and eligible to represent his country he should never be mentioned again


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXt6GtMxOI8

[BonnieShels]

I don't even think he should be discussed at all.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Stephen has signed a three year deal at Stoke.

No more excuses now.