Stephen Ireland

[jmurphyc]

Is there a link to the Richard Dunne interview? Who interviewed him?

[dr_peepee]

I heard an interview with Dunne on the radio this am and he said Ireland has no interest in coming back and would much prefer to stay at home during the international breaks.

V off Ireland :p.

Are ye messing?? Seriously?

[Ireland4ever]

I think it's better to have players available than not available but I agree with youngirish. I just don't see Ireland being in our starting XI. He's a luxury player but we can't afford to include his type.

I really hope our midfield copes well against England U21s tomorrow night, just to confirm our hopes that there's a good batch of midfielders coming through.

Yeah, the goals he got against san marino, slovakia were luxuries we could do without!:D

Its like that sketch from monty python, ''what did the romans ever do for us''

[bellavistaman]

Yeah, the goals he got against san marino, slovakia were luxuries we could do without!:D

Its like that sketch from monty python, ''what did the romans ever do for us''

not to miales. We need stephen ireland, FACT, to say we have the two reids( unbeleivably injury prone), wont be around in top level in 5 years, ireland will only be 26-27, hitting his prime. Joey O'Brian and Garvan backup my hole, no where need irelands standard. Looking back at the year in review if it wasnt for stephen ireland, we would have probably finsihed last.

[Carrigaline]

We should do whatever it takes to get Stephen Ireland back into the fold. He's one of the few players we have getting regular football in the top half of the premier league.

[Murpholini]

There's no point chasing him when he clearly doesn't want to play for us at present. Better to leave until such a time he feels he wants to come back and has something to offer to the team.

[NeilMcD]

Dunne said he offered to ring the FAI for him and but Ireland refused, Dunne has said the guy clearly does not want to play for us so he should be left alone. Dunne also said that there were allegations of bullying with Ireland in the squad, and that Ireland had the opportunity to kills these lies but failed to do so. I get the impression that Dunne is none too happy with Ireland.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, the goals he got against san marino, slovakia were luxuries we could do without!:D

Its like that sketch from monty python, ''what did the romans ever do for us''I knew I was setting myself up for that! He's great at advancing from midfield unmarked and can take a chance, that's for sure. He scored in Cyprus too, and at home to Wales.

In each of those games we needlessly lost our grip on the match, all in midfield. Wales walked all over us in midfield for a long while in Dublin with very ordinary personnel. Granted his role was varied in that game but on balance I think he weakens the side. As said umpteen times before, if we could enforce midfield Ireland would be in my team in a flash, but we can't so he wouldn't! If we are chasing a game I'd use him from the bench - I was careful when I said "starting XI"!

[Morbo]

We should do whatever it takes to get Stephen Ireland back into the fold. He's one of the few players we have getting regular football in the top half of the premier league.

What do you propose? Keep begging him until he comes back? He doesn't want to play for Ireland, end of story

[dr_peepee]

I think we should focus our efforts on creating and environment where he wants to come back.

And then tell him to f'ck right off.... I've been giving him the benifit of doubt til now. I even though I saw an olive branch being presented by him on a MOTD interview, but Dunnes comments appear to say different. Let him go. It's like I said before. Some of our team don't even realise they only half want to play for Ireland.. So if there's anymore to follow Ireland, Finnan, O'Brien etc let them go now (I'll still blame the set up mind you but at least it'd weed out the apathy)..

If someone comes in an sorts things out (on every level), the performances and the morale will follow..

[Stuttgart88]

I see Capello is laying down the law with England. I reckon some of our lot would quit or, worse, start crying.

Whatever about our physical inadequacies, those who pointed out that our squad lacks moral courage / leadership were spot on.

I recall Brian Kerr being said to have given an inspirational speech prior to his first game in Scotland. I'd love to have the chance to sit these guys down and tell them what's what, what is expected and why.

[jmurphyc]

I agree with Stuttgart in regards to Ireland. I personally think we would have done better without him in our midfield, despite the goals. I watched the Slovakia away game a second time and it amazed me just how little Ireland was offering the team, particularly when we were defending. He was often miles away from the ball and not really trying to get back and help. I remember there was one point when he picked up a man and then just stood still for about 5-10 seconds only for that player to advance forward, receive the ball and get a shot in. The fact is that it seems as though his attitude during the game is bad just as it is in regards to him wanting to play for us again. I definitely think he can offer us something positive, but only in a 5 man midfield (in the hole behind the strikers) or as an impact substitute.

[Greenforever]

Pamering to Stephen Ireland is creating another Roy Keane / Saipan situation.

He never genuinely apologised to the nation for his grannies

He never repaid the cost of his private jet, paid for by you and me

He never put the record straight with regard the alleged bullying

HE will not play for Brian Kerr

He refused to play for Steve Staunton

He refused to play for Don Givens

The man should NEVER be allowed to represent his country, and if we are doing well and he is allowed back into the fold it's an insult to those who play and support the team through thick and thin

[dr_peepee]

In hindsight, just to cut the bull and put the ball firmly in Irelands court, Givens should have just named him in the squad ful stop. Nothing more than type his name in amongst the rest of the squad and release it, no persuasion, no chasing, just type it in... And let Irelands actions do the talking after that instead of this kind of mexican stand off. It would clarify allot.

[Bondvillain]

In hindsight, just to cut the bull and put the ball firmly in Irelands court, Givens should have just named him in the squad ful stop. Nothing more than type his name in amongst the rest of the squad and release it, no persuasion, no chasing, just type it in... And let Irelands actions do the talking after that

No argument to that here.

I think it was Milutenovic who, when having trouble with some squad members, said something along the lines of
"When I draft a squad, If I were to remove everyone who I considered to have an attitude, & then remove everyone who supposedly thought I had an attitude, I wouldnt have enough players to field a team"

Don Givens seems to be under the impression that what Don Givens personally thinks of someone is the single most important factor in football, if not the entire civillized world. From what I can see, he's used personal dislike as a reason for non-selection / dismissal scenarios in the past, and he's seemingly done it this time with the exclusions of Ireland (somewhat inevitable) and Morrison (frankly inexplicable).

Givens would have come out of this entire farce a hell of a lot better if he, as said above, simply named Ireland in his Brazil squad (instead perhaps of the pointless inclusion of a clearly injured Andy Reid), and letting Ireland's future sink or swim on his response to it, rather than issuing rambling, unhelpful pontifications on behaviour which have done neither party (or the paying fans) any good.

[Greenforever]

No argument to that here.

I think it was Milutenovic who, when having trouble with some squad members, said something along the lines of
"When I draft a squad, If I were to remove everyone who I considered to have an attitude, & then remove everyone who supposedly thought I had an attitude, I wouldnt have enough players to field a team"

Don Givens seems to be under the impression that what Don Givens personally thinks of someone is the single most important factor in football, if not the entire civillized world. From what I can see, he's used personal dislike as a reason for non-selection / dismissal scenarios in the past, and he's seemingly done it this time with the exclusions of Ireland (somewhat inevitable) and Morrison (frankly inexplicable).

Givens would have come out of this entire farce a hell of a lot better if he, as said above, simply named Ireland in his Brazil squad (instead perhaps of the pointless inclusion of a clearly injured Andy Reid), and letting Ireland's future sink or swim on his response to it, rather than issuing rambling, unhelpful pontifications on behaviour which have done neither party (or the paying fans) any good.


Why would you name someone in the squad who has already made it clear they do not want to be considered for selection.

What does that say to the rest of the squad? No committment required to play for this team...just turn up when it suits you

[dr_peepee]

That's the thing though.... He hasn't really made it clear.. NOt to the fans anyway

[Greenforever]

That's the thing though.... He hasn't really made it clear.. NOt to the fans anyway

What couldn't be clearer

He is on public record as not willing to play for Kerr

He is on public record that he was not available for the games against Germany, Cyrpus and Wales.


Do you thing that we should get down on our knees and beg him to play, what messages does that send out to the rest of the players?

Plain and simple he has no interest in playing for his country.

If only he had the attitude of Bernard Jackman who in a radio interview yesterday said he would walk through a field of nettles to play for his country, after getting his first start for Ireland in Paris this weekend.

[Bondvillain]

Why would you name someone in the squad who has already made it clear they do not want to be considered for selection.



Why name someone in the squad who is recuperating from injury and has absolutely 0% chance of making the game?

Givens' squad was exactly that. Givens squad.

It was not the best available in-form squad for the Republic of Ireland. For all intents and purposes, it was "Who Don Likes. Feb 08"


I cannot speak for anyone else, but I certainly have no idea (other than speculation over the lad's mental health) why Ireland wont play. The posts above were not a ringing endorsement of Irelands attitude, but rather that a statement naming him in the squad would force a definitive statement from Stephen Ireland one way or the other , which would go some way to ending speculation once and for all, letting us move on from this, and giving Don one less subject to waflle about , as if he's the keeper of some great secret, in the future.

[Greenforever]

Why name someone in the squad who is recuperating from injury and has absolutely 0% chance of making the game?

Givens' squad was exactly that. Givens squad.

It was not the best available in-form squad for the Republic of Ireland. For all intents and purposes, it was "Who Don Likes. Feb 08"


I cannot speak for anyone else, but I certainly have no idea (other than speculation over the lad's mental health) why Ireland wont play. The posts above were not a ringing endorsement of Irelands attitude, but rather that a statement naming him in the squad would force a definitive statement from Stephen Ireland one way or the other , which would go some way to ending speculation once and for all, letting us move on from this, and giving Don one less subject to waflle about , as if he's the keeper of some great secret, in the future.


Why he is unwilling to play is irrelevant, did you read Richard Dunne's comments about him, from what he said on the record I doubt if Ireland will be very welcome back with the players.

[dr_peepee]

Do you think that we should get down on our knees and beg him to play, what messages does that send out to the rest of the players?


I've already said what I think.. No begging, no chasing, no bitching in the media, None of this "It's your move" sh!te in the media from Givens, and none of the "How dare he" sh!te from Ireland in the media, just type his name in with the rest of squad and release it. Ireland shows up, grand. Ireland doesn't, it's his decision but he can't claim anything other than he simply doesn't want to play.
...

[Paulie]

Why he is unwilling to play is irrelevant, did you read Richard Dunne's comments about him, from what he said on the record I doubt if Ireland will be very welcome back with the players.

This should not be an issue. I'm sure that most people here have had to work with people that they didn't really like at some stage and they just had to get on with it. Once the players are professional about it, and with Stephen Ireland are focused on a common goal, ie. qualification for the World Cup, we will hopefully be alright. This common goal is best served by having our best players available to us for selection.

[Morbo]

That's the thing though.... He hasn't really made it clear.. NOt to the fans anyway
What? You're kidding right

[Bondvillain]

Why he is unwilling to play is irrelevant, did you read Richard Dunne's comments about him, from what he said on the record I doubt if Ireland will be very welcome back with the players.

All I was suggesting is that clarification of the situation from Ireland himself would be helpful. We haven't had that. We've had other people affirming why he wont play, but thats pretty much all third hand information. Incedentally, Why he is unwilling to play is very relevant. As a ticket buyer, Im personally quite interested in whether there's something going on which stops a talanted player wanting to play for his country.

People can give as much amateur analysis as they like, none of us clearly knows why, and I just dont think third party hints and speculation, unhelpful griping from Givens and Silence after the fact from Ireland himself constitutes clarity.

[Morbo]

We have had a lot more than third party information, its pretty clear when you examine the history of Stephen Ireland that he doesn't want to play for his country, the lies about the dead grandmother in order to get out of the team, him withdrawing from the team because he was too depressed to play for Ireland but not depressed enough to not play for his club, failing to pick up the phone and say he is ready to play again, failing to take up Dunnes offer of letting Dunne contact the FAI on his behalve, there is easily enough evidence to conclude that he doesn't want to play for his country

[Stuttgart88]

I'd love to know how Dunne's comments can be reconciled with this:

http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/01/29/International-Ireland-on-Ireland/

I'd believe Dunne over Ireland any day of the week, but still why would Ireland bother spouting this guff so recently?

[dr_peepee]

What? You're kidding right

No..... Leaving aside the 'Granny' fiasco, since then there's been nothing commital from Ireland about him staying out of the fold... Unless I've missed something... Have I?

[Stuttgart88]

Didn't Dunne say he'd offered to intermediate but that Ireland is not for turning?

Anyway, Liam Miller showed last night that it's one thing being able to play a few passes around but if you're not physical or athletic enough to do the required work off the ball you get swamped. I don't see how Stephen Ireland could improve things. JJ & Owen to the rescue!

[geysir]

I think as a few have already mentioned, let the next manager name him in the squad, forget about the past, if he doesn't turn up then so be it.
Let the new manager deal with him as he see fits and as the situation transpires should Ireland accept the squad call up..

[Superhoops]

I think as a few have already mentioned, let the next manager name him in the squad, forget about the past, if he doesn't turn up then so be it.
Let the new manager deal with him as he see fits and as the situation transpires should Ireland accept the squad call up..
Bol**ks to this. 'if he doesn't turn up, then so be it'.

He made himself unavailable for whatever reasons he has. When he is ready to make himself available again, all he (or his agent) has to do is pick up a phone and tell someone.

Simple as.

F**k this notion of mollycoddling him.

[Bondvillain]

Bol**ks to this. 'if he doesn't turn up, then so be it'.

He made himself unavailable for whatever reasons he has. When he is ready to make himself available again, all he (or his agent) has to do is pick up a phone and tell someone.

Simple as.

F**k this notion of mollycoddling him.


I know Stephen Ireland raises the hackles of many here, and I can understand why, but I think the point Geyser raised was that if Ireland was named in the squad and didnt want to play, he could no longer in any way hide from the fact (as he is apparently doing now) , leaving him with two options:

1. He could Turn up and play for his country, or
2. He could release a statement clarifying why he would not be doing so, and we could all move on.

Naming him could send a clear message to Ireland: "You're undeniably talented enough to make the squad, now either turn up and play or have the decency to tell us what your damn problem is."

This could, if it worked, possibly rule out the media speculation based on what someone else said, second hand "I think Stephen is blah blah blah" reports, and most of the unfounded rhetoric that has plagued this situation since the incapable Givens took it's helm.

Putting him in that position is not mollycoddling. In fact its quite the opposite.

[geysir]

F**k this notion of mollycoddling him.
Who said anything about mollycuddling.
Nobody is asking or begging him to turn up. If he doesn´t turn up after being named in the squad then it´s over.
It´s up to the new manager to decide what to do. That´s every new managers privilage.

[Greenforever]

Who said anything about mollycuddling.
Nobody is asking or begging him to turn up. If he doesn´t turn up after being named in the squad then it´s over.
It´s up to the new manager to decide what to do. That´s every new managers privilage.

And what do you call naming him in a squad after he's refused to play for the last 3 managers, Givens, Staunton and Kerr.

You really think the new manager should name him and then have the crap of him not turning up, that would be just undermining himself from the start. geysir, accept it the fella does not want to play for us so move on.

[Newryrep]

I am of the view that he clearly made himself unavailable so he should make himself available. The ball pardon the pun is in his court.

We need to move on

[geysir]

Personally I don't believe he wants to play yet he is making out that he does want to play - but for the fact that he is being RRS.
I'd call his bluff.

After all, a manager had to go begging Roy Keane to return, there was no talk of a pre condition that Keane had to phone up first and make himself available. It's a new managers privilage. Then by those standards, Ireland can be named in the next squad by the new manager with no pre-talks.

[tricky_colour]

I am of the view that he clearly made himself unavailable so he should make himself available. The ball pardon the pun is in his court.

We need to move on

Shouldn't that be "the ball is his penalty area, or half of the pitch"?
Afterall it's football not tennis.

[Superhoops]

........Ireland can be named in the next squad by the new manager with no pre-talks.
And if he doesn't turn up, we go into a game with one man short in the squad thus depriving someone who does want to play of a place.


I am of the view that he clearly made himself unavailable so he should make himself available.
Precisely.

[Morbo]

And what do you call naming him in a squad after he's refused to play for the last 3 managers, Givens, Staunton and Kerr.

You really think the new manager should name him and then have the crap of him not turning up, that would be just undermining himself from the start. geysir, accept it the fella does not want to play for us so move on.
Exactly, it would undermine the manager and it is more important that the manager has the players respect than to undermine himself just to prove that S.Ireland doesn't want to play for Ireland, its pretty obvious he doesn't want to anyway so I think its unnecessary

[geysir]

And if he doesn't turn up, we go into a game with one man short in the squad thus depriving someone who does want to play of a place.
If he doesn´t turn up then he will be the player who has made the decision and not as he claims.
And surely you have heard of
a. naming a larger than needed squad
b. calling up another player who is on standby

[drogfood]

anybody any idea why Richard Dunne didnt give Stephen Ireland the FAI trophy at Man City the other night? Did they fall out over something? If so, dont expect Ireland back in any hurry

[Superhoops]

If he doesn´t turn up then he will be the player who has made the decision and not as he claims.
????



And surely you have heard of
a. naming a larger than needed squad
b. calling up another player who is on standby
So you pick an extra player and you tell him 'you're only in if Stephen Ireland (a) doesn't turn up at all or (b) turns up but fu*ks off before the game'.

Wonderful man management :eek:

[geysir]

So you pick an extra player and you tell him 'you're only in if Stephen Ireland (a) doesn't turn up at all or (b) turns up but fu*ks off before the game'.

Wonderful man management

Look Superhoops since when does a manager do anything more than pick a 21 23 24 or 25 man squad. Why would a manager say to a player if Ireland turns up you have to go home, that's nonsense.
A new manager might like to have a large squad for the friendly.
If and when a player pulls out before the next squad meets, the Manager says I will call up so and so or I won't call up anybody - I have enough.

Have you suspended rationality in order to find reasons and argue against my point why Ireland should be named in a squad by the new manager.
You have your opinion on the matter, I have mine.
You have expressed your opinion in this thread.
I expressed mine seperatly.
Get a grip.

My opinion is similar to when Roy Keane was recalled by Kerr.
It's up to new manager to set his stall and if Keane can be begged to a return then a new manager can name Ireland in the squad.

[Superhoops]

Look Superhoops since when does a manager do anything more than pick a 21 23 24 or 25 man squad. Why would a manager say to a player if Ireland turns up you have to go home, that's nonsense.
A new manager might like to have a large squad for the friendly.
If and when a player pulls out before the next squad meets, the Manager says I will call up so and so or I won't call up anybody - I have enough.

Have you suspended rationality in order to find reasons and argue against my point why Ireland should be named in a squad by the new manager.
You have your opinion on the matter, I have mine.
You have expressed your opinion in this thread.
I expressed mine seperatly.
Get a grip.

My opinion is similar to when Roy Keane was recalled by Kerr.
It's up to new manager to set his stall and if Keane can be begged to a return then a new manager can name Ireland in the squad.
I have no problem with Stephen Ireland being named in the next squad but only if and when, out of courtesy, he contacts the FAI and says he now wants to be considered for selection. A simple but significant act.

Someone on here earlier asked why Richard Dunne did not present him with his eircom FAI young player of the year award. The answer is fairly obvious and it speaks volumes of Dunne's opinion of him. I don't believe Dunne is the only one in the senior squad to have this opinion.

Ireland has some fence mending to do and if he is going to be welcomed back into the squad then he should get mending.

For what its worth, I hope he just gets on with it. But IMHO naming him in a squad and leaving it to him whether he turns up or not is not the way.

[jmurphyc]

I may be wrong about this, but the problem that I foresee is that he may come back under the new manager, then not start (and I don't think he's good enough to yet) and get ****ed off about it which may lead to problems once again.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm totally with Geysir on this.

If jmurphyc's prophecy comes true then we can all well and truly say fcuk off to Stephen Ireland.

The whole media fuss about his non-inclusion under an interim manager who has a track record of going public with his views on players' attitudes was a joke, distracting from the real contoversies in the squad.

Stephen Ireland's squad place is an issue for the new manager, not the caretaker's.

[ifk101]

I'm totally with Geysir on this.

If jmurphyc's prophecy comes true then we can all well and truly say fcuk off to Stephen Ireland.

The whole media fuss about his non-inclusion under an interim manager who has a track record of going public with his views on players' attitudes was a joke, distracting from the real contoversies in the squad.

Stephen Ireland's squad place is an issue for the new manager, not the caretaker's.

If he doesn't want to play with us I wish he just said it and let us get on it without us spending time speculating about will he or won't he.

It should be a honour to represent your country.

[TonyD]

My opinion is similar to when Roy Keane was recalled by Kerr.
It's up to new manager to set his stall and if Keane can be begged to a return then a new manager can name Ireland in the squad.

I sincerely doubt that Brian Kerr did any begging in that case. It's not his style.

[Kingdom]

I think at this point it would do no harm to look back to when he was breaking through in teh City team, yet wasn't going to play for Ireland because of Kerr. At the time it was used as a stick to beat Kerr with and many on here took up the baton too.
What I find funny is the lack of willingness both on these forums and in the media in large to acknowledge when someone has got something wrong.
I've never been one to unequivocally support someone just because they're a mate or from my home area, but the stance most of the Cobh fans took gave me plenty of laughs.
For what its worth I'd agree with Geysir, all this supposing plays right into Stephen Irelands hands. Name him in the next squad, and see what happens. Name an extended squad if needs be, that way no other squad player can feel slighted by being announced as a standby or whatever.
Let Stephen Ireland be the one to come out and say he doesn't want to play for us. And then the fury can rain down on him!

[NeilMcD]

Jesus his hair just goes from bad to worse.

[deecay]

Not likeing the mohikien either