Shelbourne FC Demoted to First Division - All Purpose Thread [Archive] - Page 9

Dodge

01/02/2007, 9:04 PM

Usual ********. Believing all the hype. No real undertanding of the Shels situation "Irish League" winners, until Miriam came on

Matthews being his usual negative self (but still calling Longford "we"). Dolan having a pop at the FAI licensing and clubs.

Miriam stuck it to Fran Gavin, who was terrible;
Fran Gavin: "Shels met licensing criteria",, "Licensing system works"
"Licensing committee meeting within next few days regarding Shels" Possible sanctions. "bad business practice caused by pressure from supporters" (WTF!!!!) Then said this year will be different "I'm only in the door 4 weeks" LOL!

Miriam looking for better marketing. Fran (on back foot) "We're putting over half a million into marketing next year". Compared us poorly to Sweden (no mention of recent European wins!)

Overall, gavin was terrible and obviously couldn't answer why Shels got away with it...

ger121

01/02/2007, 9:05 PM

Yeah she did ask some tough questions, though it made me cringe as it makes the league look to the non el fan watching like a joke with no future.

BohsPartisan

01/02/2007, 9:06 PM

I thought she was poor enough too and your man from the business post, where did he crawl out of? Load of Botox.

Gareth

01/02/2007, 9:10 PM

It was a whole lot of nothing said about it. Rehashed news, Dolan saying Shels were overspending, Matthews saying Longford do it right, and cut their cloth....and Miriam asking Fran the questions and Ian Kehoe of SBP.

Fran should have talked the new league format up more. Been more vocal about Club Promotions officers, and they should have pointed out that positive strides have been made, and the fact that Ian Kehoe said the quality wasn't there should have been attacked more by Gavin.

Overall, it was another novelty piece for Irish people to tut tut tut and ask their quirky League of Ireland friends in work in the morning whats it all about and aren't you funny the wy you support the league, as they read about new hero Kevin Doyle.....he came from Cork you know, but he learned it all in Reading......

BohsPartisan

01/02/2007, 9:13 PM

Kehoe wasn't callenged either when he insinuated that the average attendance is 3 to 4 hundred!

Philo

01/02/2007, 9:13 PM

Interesting piece. Fran Gavin squirming when asked how Shels got a licence.

Would have been funnier to see how much he squirmed had he been asked how come he completely sold out the PFAI as soon as Delaney offered him a job with the FAI and why his final act as head of the PFAI was to move the organisation's offices into FAI HQ.

pineapple stu

01/02/2007, 9:14 PM

I wonder how often we're going to hear the excuse that it's a new league now and that any problems are being ironed out by the FAI? And what crap will they come up with when it becomes clear that things will be just as badly run in a few years' time?

BohsPartisan

01/02/2007, 9:21 PM

pete

01/02/2007, 9:38 PM

Was interesting to have Business Journalist instead of the usual eL sports journalists.

Fran Gavin as abismal in his first tv appearance. The only way is up. How the hell was he able to suggest licencing going for 4 years with audited accounts & its working :eek: While he was in a difficult position he made no attempt to focus on anything good. Sounded like John Delaney pulling the strings. :rolleyes:

While Miriam O'Callaghan may not know all the details she was just saying what the average perosn on the steet will say.

Dr.Nightdub

01/02/2007, 9:58 PM

How come everyone assumes that progress in Europe will automatically fail to have an impact on League attendances? Everyone keeps quoting the Shels example (glass half empty) but aren't Derry just as valid a case history for how European success CAN boost League attendances (glass half full)?

Any of the Derry lads care to do a rough cut of your League attendances in relation to the UEFA campaign i.e average gate pre-Gothenberg / Gretna / PSG, average gate after?

corbyeire

01/02/2007, 10:50 PM

yea but then there is the success breeds increased support argument - thats why all those new supporters are there - not necessarily the european run - just a bit of success

just like galway last year - huge crowds for when we were top of the table etc.

A face

01/02/2007, 10:55 PM

Lads, i missed it ... can you give a run down of what happened. Who was on the panel. Who spoke from the crowd? What topics were covered?

Will it be online ??

dancinpants

01/02/2007, 11:04 PM

Lads, i missed it ... can you give a run down of what happened. Who was on the panel. Who spoke from the crowd? What topics were covered?

Will it be online ??

Try this http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/

sniffa

01/02/2007, 11:06 PM

But if thats the case than we may as well jack in the LoI altogether. By that token we will never get the kind of fans we need to support a full time Irish football league that can push on in Europe. All we will get is more Shelbourne style disasters at other clubs who chase glory

Still though, many clubs across Europe overspend, some have suffered the consequences, some haven't, we still shouldn't be dancing on the grave of a team that would help out the EL cause of converting Man Utd/Liverpool/Celtic/etc. fans to the EL because of this, which is what most of us have been doing on this forum

12 million is peanuts when you read this.

Fourteen months after US financier Malcolm Glazer and his family took over Manchester United in a hotly contested takeover battle, the club's improving financial prospects have been reflected in a �660m debt reinfinancing deal. The deal will cut the club's annual interest bill and strengthen the Glazer family's grip on the club. A spokesman for the Glazers said the amended structure would continue to provide manager Alex Ferguson with 'sufficient funds in the transfer market'. The Financial Times, citing people familiar with the package, said the club's annual interest charge would fall to �62m, compared to �90m under the old deal. It said overall borrowings would rise to �660m from �580m, but the club had halved to �135m the amount they owe in the form of higher risk payment-in-kind notes.

Now thats frightening!!

dcfcsteve

01/02/2007, 11:22 PM

Kehoe wasn't callenged either when he insinuated that the average attendance is 3 to 4 hundred!

Or when he said that Doyle was 19 when he left Cork for Reading. No mention of the special circumstances as to why Doyle was sold so cheaply eitehr - surely Gavin knows the situation there !

The complete failure of 'commentators' to handle even the basics of our league is absolutely shocking......! :o

dcfcsteve

01/02/2007, 11:27 PM

DCFCSteve, I guess I'll reply to your post as it suggested a way of overthrowing an owner of a football club. My first question is Have you ever met Ollie Byrne and do you really think fans attempting to bully him into selling up the club would actually impact at all? I would say it would only serve to do the opposite. I think the first and only question I want answered is, knowing Ollie, does anyone think he would sell 99% of his stake in Shels, if fans asked him to or even boycotted games? Our attendances were low enough some of you would say that you may not notice a boycott!!!

Even in the toughest times for Shelbourne FC, Ollie remained at the helm, so do you really believe a bunch of fans could have successfully made him give up the club after Deportivo, or our 4th league win in a few years etc.

Lets say Shels fans attempted to do what Rovers fans did. There is a HUGE difference, in that there is a potential asset of 20million ish. Debts in common alright, but that asset is something that would make a deal with fans even more difficult to broker, especially when times were prospering on the field. But all this is beside the point, cos people will argue fans didn't try, and Shels fans will argue it would have been pointless, or they didnt know, and you will allsay But we told you etc etc.

The reality in my humble opinion is no man woman or demigod coul dhave shifted ollie from that club without some form of AMAZING deal on the table, and fans would never be in the position to do that!!!

Ollie Byrne currently owns 99% of nothing - bar a c. €16m debt and a severe illness.

Tolka is worth very little without re-zoning. Even with the mere 'prospect' of re-zoning, it is worth a lot less than €20m. Which is why your backers with first call on it have drawn a line at €6m. That's probably about right for an asset with only a potential value that has yet to be realised and won't be a cake walk to realise either.

If you believe you can't do anything about your club, then one thing is certain. You will be able to do nothing about your club.

Say goodbye to Shelbourne then Gareth.....

Soper

01/02/2007, 11:27 PM

Alan Matthews: we can do this, we can do that, blah blah blah

You can also get thrashed by a rubbish welsh team.

passerrby

01/02/2007, 11:38 PM

yes he may own 99 percent of nothing but its his to do what he likes with it.
(sorry slightly drunk cant find the percentage key)

dcfcsteve

01/02/2007, 11:46 PM

yes he may own 99 percent of nothing but its his to do what he likes with it.
(sorry slightly drunk cant find the percentage key)

99% of fck all is still, errrr - fcuk all !

The fans don't even need to try to deal with Ollie directly if he really is that obstructive. If they don't turn up on Day 1 of the 2007 season, he will have even less than fcuk all and will shortly be forced into receivership. They can then buy the club at a token amount and negotiate a deal with the administrators. This isn't rocket science - it's what Rovers did !

But 'oh no - it's all a little bit difficult for us'..... :o

Gareth - if a handful of Derry City fans and former players could resurrect a club dead for 13 years in the midst of the Troubles and in the face of constant opposition/obstruction even from their own FA, then don't give me the sob story that you can't do anything about Shelbourne. I simply don't buy it...

Dodge

02/02/2007, 12:45 AM

Alan Matthews: we can do this, we can do that, blah blah blah

You can also get thrashed by a rubbish welsh team.

And up until Tuesday he was contemplating the Shels job. Two faced ****

higgins

02/02/2007, 12:50 AM

Good post Steve, the bit I've quoted is the very least they should have done last season. When I heard that the SSDG were going bankroll the Shels programme I knew there was no way they were ever going to dig themselves out this mess.

The profits from the Shels Match Programme go to SSDG.
Ollie does not have access to that account.

Dodge

02/02/2007, 1:01 AM

The profits from the Shels Match Programme go to SSDG.
Ollie does not have access to that account.

He never said differently. He saidd you'd bankroll it, which you have done

higgins

02/02/2007, 1:04 AM

One other thing here nobody seems to notice.

Ollie is very sick and in hospital fighting for his life. There is a Board of Management there who I have talked to and believe are doing their best to resolve the situation.

I spoke to them and can see from the information that the fans are not going to save the club in it's current form by raising cash.

The FAI will not allow any more application in at this time either so the option of starting afreash is gone.

With that in mind and the fact the one option that will save us is currently being explored.

Why would anyone do anything now that could rock the boat?

As for your doing nothing crap!
We have approached Ollie and Ollie had agreed to forward shares to a fans group. We were working away on raising funds but along came this mess and a very serious illness.

It's not unthinkable that the ground deal could have happened by now. Had it of done we would have cleared debts and I do believe the fans would have the club today.

With so much crap tied up in Accolade and Ollie robbing peter to pay paul over and over it's never been possible to have any sort of knowledge of what was going on.

He got himself into a catch 22 when if he came out he was fecked and if he didnt come out he was eventually fecked. Ollie needed to cash in on Tolka and was desperate for that to happen.

It didn't and we're here today.
All his own doing and I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for him but to start having a go at the fans is stupid. There were some fans who tried over the years and it's next to impossible to change his ways.

He knows how I feel about things, he has done for years but myself or even 100 others were never going to change him. Those who know Ollie will know what the fans of Shelbourne face. The man to his credit was never caught out until two months ago. We'd nothing to throw at him apart from disagreeing with some decisions to appeal now and then.

higgins

02/02/2007, 1:12 AM

He never said differently. He saidd you'd bankroll it, which you have done

The plan was/is to take over enough areas and create enough income to become a major player at Shelbourne. We started with the programme and then the whole thing comes thumbling down.

I thought this would happen and thats partly the reason for setting up SSDG but I didnt think it would happen so soon. I had hoped a group like SSDG would have had a few years to grow and run more of the club. Then we'd be in a decent position to pick up the pieces.

What nobody counted on was the levels of debt Shelbourne had.

I mean 12million after the success we've had in recent years is madness.

We had plans with Ollie to buy into the club. If the deal for Tolka had of went through I think the SSDG plan would have worked fine. It all crashed much sooner than I expected.

I never ever thought he would be so foolish to hold on to players when he knew it was about to explode in his face. I knew the debts were there, not the that extent, but I knew they were there. I'd hoped we could get some control on the club, some structure before they got out of hand but Ollie!!! for what reason nobody fully understands refused to sell players this season when that was his only option...

This could have been avoided.
Even after we won the league he kept the players!!!

Crazy stuff and if you think we should have seen that one coming then your being very unfair.

Dodge

02/02/2007, 1:15 AM

We had plans with Ollie to buy into the club.
Shelbourne Ltd or Accolade Ltd?

Crazy stuff and if you think we should have seen that one coming then your being very unfair.

In fairness we've been telling you for years that then end was nigh.

higgins

02/02/2007, 1:26 AM

Both!

Buying into Shelbourne FC now on the basis that Accolade would transfer to Shelbourne FC Ltd after the sale of the gorund went through.

This was the agreement with Ollie.

We didn't have the funds to do the deal and therefore didn't get someone in to look at what assurances we could get that this would happen.

When we had the funds we would have.

Shelbourne trade as Shelbourne FC Ltd this season anyway.

I didn't need any oul idiot from here to tell me what way Shelbourne was heading. I've been a fan long enough to see what way it was heading. the speed at which it went that way was the killer. The refusal to let players go at any stage over the last 12 months was shocking when you think of the debts we had. Nobody but Ollie knew the scale of the debts if the fans did they wouldnt have sat there looking on!!! 12 million is crazy money...

Risteard

02/02/2007, 2:08 AM

Jeez, my presentations in college are way more confident and assured than Fran Gavin. Its scary.
That clip is after turning me militant against the FAI.

strangeirish

02/02/2007, 3:21 AM

Jeez, my presentations in college are way more confident and assured than Fran Gavin. Its scary.
That clip is after turning me militant against the FAI.
I know a guy that has some cheap petrol.:eek: :D

khoop

02/02/2007, 6:41 AM

I wonder how often we're going to hear the excuse that it's a new league now and that any problems are being ironed out by the FAI?

They are obviously taking lessons in bluster and bullsh!t from Fianna Fail. Remember all those promises from the LAST election....?

Well yeah..... but these things take time..... you can't expect everything to change overnight..... blah, blah, blah.....

In the meantime - more promises for the NEXT election.....

ifk101

02/02/2007, 7:18 AM

.... and what exactly is the Swedish model?

Drogman.

02/02/2007, 7:23 AM

Agree with most of the above. It was fairly bad from Gavin. No confidence in this talk and then trying to defend Shels, it just fell apart.

Some people on here have said that it made the league look like a joke, well in all fairness, it has been a joke for a past number of years, that's why changes are being made.

paudie

02/02/2007, 8:02 AM

.... and what exactly is the Swedish model?

Isn't that what Tiger Woods married?

BohsPartisan

02/02/2007, 8:03 AM

Some people on here have said that it made the league look like a joke, well in all fairness, it has been a joke for a past number of years, that's why changes are being made.

More of a joke then. For example Miriam mentioning our ground deal in the same breath as the Shels and DC fiascos as if its a bad thing.

BohsPartisan

02/02/2007, 8:04 AM

Isn't that what Tiger Woods married?

We should deffo go for that.

Macy

02/02/2007, 9:00 AM

There is a HUGE difference, in that there is a potential asset of 20million ish. Debts in common alright, but that asset is something that would make a deal with fans even more difficult to broker, especially when times were prospering on the field.
The value of the Tallaght site wouldn't have been that much different - why were the property developers sniffing around and lending Rovers money for a stake if it wasn't worth a huge amount?

bohs til i die

02/02/2007, 9:09 AM

There is a HUGE difference, in that there is a potential asset of 20million ish.

I think you'll find that asset is worth a lot less. A third is already gone, another 3rd is already spent and a chunk of the other 3rd will be drip fed to Shels over the next year if Finbar Flood can do a deal to keep Shels in business.

This time next year [or the year after], Shels will be millionaire's, just, and thats all you'll have. No Tolka, just the last million or so from the sale of Tolka because Ollie spent the rest buying titles, one of which you should be stripped of.

The proceeds from the sale of Tolka Park lease were supposed to be used to re-establish the sporting entity at another location, not spent on not paying players wages.

bohs til i die

02/02/2007, 9:13 AM

Kehoe wasn't callenged either when he insinuated that the average attendance is 3 to 4 hundred!

well the discussion was primarily about Shels :rolleyes:

BohsPartisan

02/02/2007, 9:22 AM

well the discussion was primarily about Shels :rolleyes:

But he was talking about the league in general at that stage.

Jerry The Saint

02/02/2007, 10:12 AM

12 million is peanuts when you read this.

Fourteen months after US financier Malcolm Glazer and his family took over Manchester United in a hotly contested takeover battle, the club's improving financial prospects have been reflected in a �660m debt reinfinancing deal. The deal will cut the club's annual interest bill and strengthen the Glazer family's grip on the club. A spokesman for the Glazers said the amended structure would continue to provide manager Alex Ferguson with 'sufficient funds in the transfer market'. The Financial Times, citing people familiar with the package, said the club's annual interest charge would fall to �62m, compared to �90m under the old deal. It said overall borrowings would rise to �660m from �580m, but the club had halved to �135m the amount they owe in the form of higher risk payment-in-kind notes.

Now thats frightening!!

I don't know about that - compare the worldwide television and merchandising income of Manchester U with that of Shelbourne F. 12 mill is bonkers debt whatever way you look at it.

NY Hoop

02/02/2007, 10:23 AM

Would have been funnier to see how much he squirmed had he been asked how come he completely sold out the PFAI as soon as Delaney offered him a job with the FAI and why his final act as head of the PFAI was to move the organisation's offices into FAI HQ.

Very true. His appointment stinks and he was clueless last night. Couldnt believe he had the nerve at the end to say that in 2009 there will be a fully professional 10 team league:rolleyes: HOW??

Miriam, you good thing, asked all the right questions IMO.

KOH